Drakart

[LargeOrangeFont]

I believe the parasitic loses for a CVT are quite a bit higher than a multi-speed trans with a chain drive as well.

I wonder if Recluse makes a clutch for a 'Bussa?

The losses aren’t really any different unless you are slipping the belt, which if you are slipping the belt at speed you have problems anyway.

The belt functions exactly like a chain from a power delivery standpoint.

 

[MK1MOD0]

My experiences with Recluse clutches..... A buddy installed one in his bike . We all went down to Baja and his clutch failed on day two. We towed him back 50 miles, and he was done. A couple of years later he decided he wanted to try it again. So this time when it failed we were in the middle of the dunes. If ya ever had to tow a bike out of the dunes...... ya know what a PITA it is !!! After dumping the bike about 30 times and being absolutely exhausted.... He was done with recluse after that.

 

[Mototrig]

Interesting.
We saw a guy at Coral Pink in 2006 running a Tom Pro car witha Busa engine and a Trans very similar to this setup.
The car was a rocket, turbo deal.

We watched him rip around for a while then overheat.
While his buddy went to camp for coolant we talked with the driver a while.
Was about a 350hp tune. Claims when they built it was closer to 450 but just couldn’t control it so they dialed it back.

Trans deal had forward and reverse, and the setup was almost identical with the short drive chain between engine case and the trans.
I wonder if it’s the same mfg?
It seemed to hold up to the power just fine.

I remember the owner of Drakart saying they manufactured the GB in house.

I've heard mostly good and some bad about the Tom Pro gearbox's. Just like anything else I would imagine it has more to do with maintenance, application & how the owner treats it. Having said that the only negative I've ever heard is the Tom Pro gearbox popping out of gear at times. These were comments long ago on an earlier variant of the thing though so take with a grain of salt.

Looking at the TomPro vs Drakart gearboxes there are a couple of key differences. 1 having the ratio reduction in the Drakart which can be seen in the shape difference between the two. The Drakart is a pyramid shape making room for a much larger driven gear reducing the ratio after the drive/reversing sector. TomPro looks to be a 1:1 ratio by it's rectangular (oval?) shape. Not saying anything negative at all about the TomPro, but I imagine Drakart is a bit easier on the drive chain.
...and 2 the gussets machined into the Drakart looks to be a stronger design. The two don't APPEAR to be made by the same manufacturer.

Again not saying anything negative, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a car with a TomPro gearbox.

 

[MK1MOD0]

I don’t know anything about this new Drakart, but it looks bad ass. We used to dune with a guy who had the single seat version, and it was sweet. Very well built and realizable!

PS. Yes, the owner of the single seater said the gearbox was all built by Drakart as well.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

My experiences with Recluse clutches..... A buddy installed one in his bike . We all went down to Baja and his clutch failed on day two. We towed him back 50 miles, and he was done. A couple of years later he decided he wanted to try it again. So this time when it failed we were in the middle of the dunes. If ya ever had to tow a bike out of the dunes...... ya know what a PITA it is !!! After dumping the bike about 30 times and being absolutely exhausted.... He was done with recluse after that.

My dad has one in his CRF450 as well as his Husky 300 2 stroke. Never a single issue with them and they work amazingly well.

 

[MK1MOD0]

My dad has one in his CRF450 as well as his Husky 300 2 stroke. Never a single issue with them and they work amazingly well.

Good for him.

 

[Bobby_329]

I remember the owner of Drakart saying they manufactured the GB in house.

I've heard mostly good and some bad about the Tom Pro gearbox's. Just like anything else I would imagine it has more to do with maintenance, application & how the owner treats it. Having said that the only negative I've ever heard is the Tom Pro gearbox popping out of gear at times. These were comments long ago on an earlier variant of the thing though so take with a grain of salt.

Looking at the TomPro vs Drakart gearboxes there are a couple of key differences. 1 having the ratio reduction in the Drakart which can be seen in the shape difference between the two. The Drakart is a pyramid shape making room for a much larger driven gear reducing the ratio after the drive/reversing sector. TomPro looks to be a 1:1 ratio by it's rectangular (oval?) shape. Not saying anything negative at all about the TomPro, but I imagine Drakart is a bit easier on the drive chain.
...and 2 the gussets machined into the Drakart looks to be a stronger design. The two don't APPEAR to be made by the same manufacturer.

Again not saying anything negative, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a car with a TomPro gearbox.

The tom pro box is gear reduction 1.38 i think made to run like a 45-50 tooth sprocket supposedly less load on the chain that than going around two small sprockets.

​

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Who was it that had the Rhino with the street bike deal years back that launched it at Marysville track and put it on the tail gate? Sonny? His dad? I can't recall, but it was right when Rhinos first came out, and he went full stupid on it.

His name was Pat if I remember correctly. He was buddies with the slip shot crew.

That is ol man Geno's Tom Pro car that I just posted the pics of!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Be careful I think lof found a new utv to argue about lol @RiverDave

I just read the last few pages over there .

 

[Mototrig]

The tom pro box is gear reduction 1.38 i think made to run like a 45-50 tooth sprocket supposedly less load on the chain that than going around two small sprockets.

​

Huh...I always thought they were 1:1. Good to know

 

[Bobby_329]

Huh...I always thought they were 1:1. Good to know

Yeah if you look at street bike motor cars without the reverse box they run huge sprockets on the axle like 70 or 80 tooth.

 

[Racey]

I haven’t seen that style Drakart. I only knew about the single seaters. Looks pretty bad ass. And no belt to deal with.

Honestly the belt isn't a bad deal, the bulk of belt issues are from guys that refuse to drop the car into low range when necessary, they lug the thing and try to put a ton of torque through the belt while it's spinning slow. Pretty hard to burn a belt if you are driving the car correctly.

The belt does a good job of providing damping for the rest of the drive train as well. I mean you can have something without the belt, but now you have gear teeth to deal with.... Belt is cheap and can be changed in like 5 minutes, gear teeth not so much. Even guys with the big trans-axles the Sequential Mendeolas, the Fortins etc, they all have to do regular maintence on those boxes replacing gears and bearings etc. Now a lot of the guys with heavier cars are running torque convertors mated to a manual transaxle to have that damping and provide a decoupling of the direct shock loads.

What i'm saying is, there is no magic solution, everything is a double edged sword.

That being said, the that Drakart looks super clean and well taken care of. Would make a nice ride for someone into that type of vehicle.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Honestly the belt isn't a bad deal, the bulk of belt issues are from guys that refuse to drop the car into low range when necessary, they lug the thing and try to put a ton of torque through the belt while it's spinning slow. Pretty hard to burn a belt if you are driving the car correctly.

The belt does a good job of providing damping for the rest of the drive train as well. I mean you can have something without the belt, but now you have gear teeth to deal with.... Belt is cheap and can be changed in like 5 minutes, gear teeth not so much. Even guys with the big trans-axles the Sequential Mendeolas, the Fortins etc, they all have to do regular maintence on those boxes replacing gears and bearings etc. Now a lot of the guys with heavier cars are running torque convertors mated to a manual transaxle to have that damping and provide a decoupling of the direct shock loads.

What i'm saying is, there is no magic solution, everything is a double edged sword.

That being said, the that Drakart looks super clean and well taken care of. Would make a nice ride for someone into that type of vehicle.

All this x1000.

 

[DoughBallin14]

Honestly the belt isn't a bad deal, the bulk of belt issues are from guys that refuse to drop the car into low range when necessary, they lug the thing and try to put a ton of torque through the belt while it's spinning slow. Pretty hard to burn a belt if you are driving the car correctly.

The belt does a good job of providing damping for the rest of the drive train as well. I mean you can have something without the belt, but now you have gear teeth to deal with.... Belt is cheap and can be changed in like 5 minutes, gear teeth not so much. Even guys with the big trans-axles the Sequential Mendeolas, the Fortins etc, they all have to do regular maintence on those boxes replacing gears and bearings etc. Now a lot of the guys with heavier cars are running torque convertors mated to a manual transaxle to have that damping and provide a decoupling of the direct shock loads.

What i'm saying is, there is no magic solution, everything is a double edged sword.

That being said, the that Drakart looks super clean and well taken care of. Would make a nice ride for someone into that type of vehicle.

Agreed! I am good with the belts and think they serve many benefits and of course if used right they last.
I think before the sxs got to the levels they are at now the Drakart was supposed to be the mini sandcar/dualsport level of offroad toy with a true chassis/cage, horsepower, suspension design etc.
Now its the usual argument, go to a dealer get a sxs and a warranty and on the shelf parts.

Obvious to me yamaha tried to run with the drakart idea and give the people a shiftable streetbike motor offroad car but no 4 seaters

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Agreed! I am good with the belts and think they serve many benefits and of course if used right they last.
I think before the sxs got to the levels they are at now the Drakart was supposed to be the mini sandcar/dualsport level of offroad toy with a true chassis/cage, horsepower, suspension design etc.
Now its the usual argument, go to a dealer get a sxs and a warranty and on the shelf parts.

Obvious to me yamaha tried to run with the drakart idea and give the people a shiftable streetbike motor offroad car but no 4 seaters

So much opportunity left on the UTV table by the big 3 offroad brands…

 

[Racey]

I was debating that. Honestly I run all my SXS’s in 2WD 99.99% of the time. Only real concern is sometimes trying to back up you need 4wd

I think i've mentioned this, but years ago i went on a big ride and in the group were a couple Polaris engineers. They said the cars are designed to be run in 4wd all the time unless you are on a hard packed paved flat road. Because the front Diff is geared lower than the rear diff, and the way the sprags work to lock the front axle, it's only putting torque to the front wheels once the rears are slipping at a rate that allows them the front diff to overcome them.

You get significantly better mileage running in 4wd and much better tire wear as well.

 

[BIGRED9158]

Agreed! I am good with the belts and think they serve many benefits and of course if used right they last.
I think before the sxs got to the levels they are at now the Drakart was supposed to be the mini sandcar/dualsport level of offroad toy with a true chassis/cage, horsepower, suspension design etc.
Now its the usual argument, go to a dealer get a sxs and a warranty and on the shelf parts.

Obvious to me yamaha tried to run with the drakart idea and give the people a shiftable streetbike motor offroad car but no 4 seaters

There is 3 custom 4 seat Yamaha running around actually I believe the company is called tube work I am not 100 percent correct though

 

[RiverDave]

I think i've mentioned this, but years ago i went on a big ride and in the group were a couple Polaris engineers. They said the cars are designed to be run in 4wd all the time unless you are on a hard packed paved flat road. Because the front Diff is geared lower than the rear diff, and the way the sprags work to lock the front axle, it's only putting torque to the front wheels once the rears are slipping at a rate that allows them the front diff to overcome them.

You get significantly better mileage running in 4wd and much better tire wear as well.

First I've heard that.. surprised on the better fuel economy as well. I almost always ran my in 2wd.

RD

 

[RiverDave]

There is 3 custom 4 seat Yamaha running around actually I believe the company is called tube work I am not 100 percent correct though

Tube Works makes a factory replacement gear ratio kit for the YXZ Yamahas.. A guy named Jason owns it and comes from the Trophy truck world. He is good friends with my friend Kenny @Fabhouse

 

[Fabhouse]

Tube Works makes a factory replacement gear ratio kit for the YXZ Yamahas.. A guy named Jason owns it and comes from the Trophy truck world. He is good friends with my friend Kenny @Fabhouse

Tubeworks has a 4 seat kit, but i'm not sure if it is still being produced. The gear set he makes for the YXZ is the FIRST mod that should be done to those cars. Weller Racing in Chandler, AZ is a dealer and installer for his kit.

I personally like the Drakart. 2WD is not a deal breaker for me, but I am biased. My personal desert car is a tube chassis A-arm VW Thing.

@Racey has some very accurate info. Anything that acts as a torque spike limiter, ie torque convertor, belt, cone clutch, viscus coupler etc. will extend the life of the drivetrain components. During my previous career in off road racing, a very large amount of effort went into matching components in order to prevent failures. For example, if the drive axle diameter was too large, you had a higher rate of gear set failures.

I am constantly impressed by the capability, reliability and performance of the latest UTV's. Might even own one someday.

 

[pwerwagn]

I have a little experience with a chain on a car running to an FNR box. A buddy and I built a ZX14 powered class 10 car to desert race. We ran a RPM FNR box that was spooled. At the same time, we were working on/building 2 other Sinister sand cars with Busa motors and Jeffco gear boxes (open diff).

It seems like the chain when running at 1:1 works decent in a sand setting. When we used it in a race setting the chain would get so hot, we could melt the o rings out of it in about 40 miles (obviously hard race use). We tried o ring, non o ring, we tried dual chains (sprockets welded side by side), etc. It wasnt the load killing the chain, it was the heat. The lack of the large aluminum sprocket that a bike has on the rear, kept the chain from dissipating heat. The smaller (I think we ran the largest sprockets we could on the ZX14 and busa...15T?) sprockets didnt allow for any dissipation. We tried to run a taller gear in the FNR box and use a larger sprocket on the box and then we had issues with too much torque input and we broke boxes frequently.

On the ZX14 car, we ended up building a sealed box around the chain and ran the chain in oil, with an auto tensioner. That added about 3x of the life to the chain, but at a whiplash race in snowflake, we still ended up losing a chain. The issue then was the time involved to replace the chain in a sealed gearbox sucked in a race setting.

As a play car, we had decent success but would still replace chains every 2-300 miles. It didnt matter if it was the ZX14/RPM buggy, or either of the Sinister busa buggies with the jeffco box. Playing with them in the dunes they tended to last pretty well. But HARD desert use and shockloading was a nogo from my experience.

We ended up converting the race car to an ecotec/CVT setup and it was far more reliable in the end. However, I still dream of the sound that ZX14 made screaming thru the desert, it was amazing.

 

[Mototrig]

Yeah if you look at street bike motor cars without the reverse box they run huge sprockets on the axle like 70 or 80 tooth.

I've seen those quite a bit. Always been a fan of street bike powered short cars

 

[STV_Keith]

When we used it in a race setting the chain would get so hot, we could melt the o rings out of it in about 40 miles (obviously hard race use).

How long was the chain you were using? Looking at the pics here, it seems the chain is much shorter than a M/C chain, meaning more cycles and more heat in a shorter length of chain than a longer length.

 

[pwerwagn]

How long was the chain you were using? Looking at the pics here, it seems the chain is much shorter than a M/C chain, meaning more cycles and more heat in a shorter length of chain than a longer length.

It was substantially shorter than a typical MC chain, just to keep wheelbase down. I just dug thru pics trying to find some good ones, and what feels like something we built/raced 5 years ago, turns out to be 14 years ago lol.

Heres the 3 buggies. Green one is a ZX14/RPM box, yellow one is busa/jeffco, black one is busa/jeffco.

This is the first race we did in the ZX14R car. The sound of it thru the desert is amazing...

 

[BIGRED9158]

It was substantially shorter than a typical MC chain, just to keep wheelbase down. I just dug thru pics trying to find some good ones, and what feels like something we built/raced 5 years ago, turns out to be 14 years ago lol.

Heres the 3 buggies. Green one is a ZX14/RPM box, yellow one is busa/jeffco, black one is busa/jeffco.

This is the first race we did in the ZX14R car. The sound of it thru the desert is amazing...

Kick ass sound track!!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

First I've heard that.. surprised on the better fuel economy as well. I almost always ran my in 2wd.

RD

You’d be surprised how much faster the car gets up to speed in 4wd. This is why the mileage is better.. you aren’t burning extra fuel just spinning your wheels.

 

[Boatymcboatface]

Coming of a motorcycle I originally preferred 2 wheel drive because the car was loose in the rear and enjoyed the steering/counter steering and setting up for turns. Now I just blast through corners in 4wd and let the car do the work.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

I think i've mentioned this, but years ago i went on a big ride and in the group were a couple Polaris engineers. They said the cars are designed to be run in 4wd all the time unless you are on a hard packed paved flat road. Because the front Diff is geared lower than the rear diff, and the way the sprags work to lock the front axle, it's only putting torque to the front wheels once the rears are slipping at a rate that allows them the front diff to overcome them.

You get significantly better mileage running in 4wd and much better tire wear as well.

First I've heard that.. surprised on the better fuel economy as well. I almost always ran my in 2wd.

RD

The front sprague gear, on a rzr, is is an electro magnetic engagement. And if the "plate" gets warped they do weird shit! But @Racey is correct on it's more of an "all wheel drive" then a tru 4wd. Unless they have changed in the last few years. And also when you get to a certain speed the front end will kick in when in 4wd. If you ever notice when you are 4wd and hauling ass into a corner it will drift then "grab traction" that is why!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The front sprague gear, on a rzr, is is an electro magnetic engagement. And if the "plate" gets warped they do weird shit! But @Racey is correct on it's more of an "all wheel drive" then a tru 4wd. Unless they have changed in the last few years. And also when you get to a certain speed the front end will kick in when in 4wd. If you ever notice when you are 4wd and hauling ass into a corner it will drift then "grab traction" that is why!

Still the same system today.

Also be aware you have to drop below 3000 RPM for it to actually engage the 4wd system, even if you hit the switch.

 

[FROGMAN524]

Nice, but is it made in CHYNA????

 

[DoughBallin14]

Anyone have one? What’s the story on these things? Good / bad??

There is one for sale in Havasu for 42k.. other than it being 2WD the thing looks pretty legit?

Wow i guess a 4x4 version posted is asking almost 20k more than the one you posted @RiverDave , must be trying to catch the speed utv increase!

Did you happen to ever check that one out in Havasu??

Dont kill me for posting a str8up ad

 

[RiverDave]

Wow i guess a 4x4 version posted is asking almost 20k more than the one you posted @RiverDave , must be trying to catch the speed utv increase!

Did you happen to ever check that one out in Havasu??

Dont kill me for posting a str8up ad

I never did check it out. For business reasons I’m going to go get a pro r here pretty quick. (Starting a fab shop with a friend to start making cages and products in the other side of my building). He had a pretty large offroad build shop before that built real high end SXS’s etc..

I don’t care if you post a str8up ad.. lol. There’s a ton of room in that biz for everyone. I like Richard and was hanging out with him at the LA Boatshow

 

[DMF]

I never did check it out. For business reasons I’m going to go get a pro r here pretty quick. (Starting a fab shop with a friend to start making cages and products in the other side of my building). He had a pretty large offroad build shop before that built real high end SXS’s etc..

I don’t care if you post a str8up ad.. lol. There’s a ton of room in that biz for everyone. I like Richard and was hanging out with him at the LA Boatshow

I get my Pro R on Tuesday. When will you be up and running on the fab shop?

 

[DoughBallin14]

I never did check it out. For business reasons I’m going to go get a pro r here pretty quick. (Starting a fab shop with a friend to start making cages and products in the other side of my building). He had a pretty large offroad build shop before that built real high end SXS’s etc..

I don’t care if you post a str8up ad.. lol. There’s a ton of room in that biz for everyone. I like Richard and was hanging out with him at the LA Boatshow

Nice!! That sounds like a sweet deal plenty of room in the sxs fab industry. Hope that gets rolling hot for you Dave!
Agreed and glad you said your jumping in the growth of toy syndicate also!

This drakart is in my town, sure wish i was in the position to check it out and jump on something new. Family is growing fast.

 

[RiverDave]

I get my Pro R on Tuesday. When will you be up and running on the fab shop?

Welding Tables arrive in 15 biz days.. we will start setting up next week / moving tools etc

 

[Outdrive1]

Looks like you missed it anyhow.

 

[DMF]

Welding Tables arrive in 15 biz days.. we will start setting up next week / moving tools etc

Congratulations on the new venture! If you need any help with electrical let me know. I'm curious what you guys produce for the Pro R.