dual 400r vs 450r merc on a 25Sport C9 DC 3.0+

[pigsnot]

The cost between the 2 is decent so I was curious if anyone has any comparisons between the 400r and 450r. I understand the 450r out performs the 400r but I'm wondering if spending the extra 50-70k for 2 x 450r is worth it or if dual 400r would be sufficient. I hear some with the dual 450r set ups can get close to or in the 90 mph range. Honestly I am not sure Id be comfortable going 90 in a pontoon, I would be content at 75, what kind of speeds should I bee seeing with 2x 400 r on a 25Sport C9 DC 3.0+ ( most likely Trifecta )

 

[stoker22405]

The cost between the 2 is decent so I was curious if anyone has any comparisons between the 400r and 450r. I understand the 450r out performs the 400r but I'm wondering if spending the extra 50-70k for 2 x 450r is worth it or if dual 400r would be sufficient. I hear some with the dual 450r set ups can get close to or in the 90 mph range. Honestly I am not sure Id be comfortable going 90 in a pontoon, I would be content at 75, what kind of speeds should I bee seeing with 2x 400 r on a 25Sport C9 DC 3.0+ ( most likely Trifecta )

75 with 400's might be tough to do loaded down on a warm summer day.....But spending an extra 50 to 70k on 100 hp is also tough to do on any day.....Not to mention the extended warranty's on the 450 is about 22k per motor....

 

[riverroyal]

Anything over 50mph on 3 aluminum logs is a death wish.

 

[Riverryder]

Anything over 50mph on 3 aluminum logs is a death wish.

I wash just thing the same? I have a v bottom when I hire a boat wake it’s a fun ride. Couldn’t imagine crossing a wake in a big poontoon..


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[riverroyal]

It’s just my opinion...but after owning a cat and a now a tri toon the toon just doesn’t need to go that fast. They are bolted together, they are not designed to go that fast. They might claim to be engineered for it but they aren’t. A motor home can go 100 mph, doesn’t mean you should.
If your talking a big boat, like 30’ toon then yes, you need twin 350s or 400s to go 50mph. But a 25’ is fine at 50 mph with a single.
But just my opinion.
For the original question, the 400s are plenty. Save your cash

 

[Riverryder]

[mention]riverroyal [/mention] that’s what i was wondering to how are they held to the toons? Screws? My fiberglass boat seems sketch at speed crossing wake.


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[riverroyal]

The 3 logs are bolted to the deck with channel. Channel spans a the logs every 12” or so. They will take a pounding. But they don’t really have and hydro dynamics for lack of a better term.
Each manufacturer has a ‘design’. Most are designed to float better at speed.
I’ve crossed big wake at 40mph and it’s doesnt skim the top like a cat or v. It plows. You can feel the boat drop in mph as you do it. Very odd at first.
Toons are safe, like all boats I guess you can go too fast

 

[Wmc]

300's 65mph
400's 73 ish
450 82ish
I've been in all 3.
Mine has 300's

 

[riverroyal]

How long and wide?

 

[Wmc]

How long and wide?

My tubes are 29'5 long, wide idk 8'
Mine is a c9 also Trifecta

 

[riverroyal]

My tubes are 29'5 long, wide idk 8'
Mine is a c9 also Trifecta

thats the right size for twins! Not a 25ft normal pontoon

 

[pigsnot]

I have never owned a pontoon, only fiberglass. Currently have a 26' cat. I too find it sketchy to go fast on a pontoon. I grew up on Eliminators V's and Cat's, however I think when a lot of people put "Pontoon" and "Speed" together they think of the old pontoons. Again I am not speaking from experience here but I do believe these are not your typical old Man fishing 'n drinkin toons, I do believe these have been extremely updated to handle the performance and speed. They are becoming quite common on the lake and talking to a few owners I have not heard of any issues.

Additionally the 25Sport C9 DC 3.0+ it actually 28' long x 8' 6" wide, despite the description. They are made by Forest River Marine, seems they follow the same RV measurement system when forming descriptions..

 

[throttle]

thats the right size for twins! Not a 25ft normal pontoon

yeah, I'm pretty sure the twins are not an option on my 25Sport, he is gonna have to go with bigger model like Will's for any twin application.

Now if money wasn't a factor... sure twin 450's all day, why not?

Seriously tho, imo I'm good with a little over 60mph (but we run a comfortable and efficient 50mph all day long) with a single 400.

 

[Riverryder]

Another thing besides pissing in the wind? Why get a floating living room 2 70k motors? It’s still a living room not custom made speed boat?
Like putting rims on your wives mini van? Ha


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[PlanB]

^^^ Why do people run 496's in a cat? I would rather have a fast toon than a slow cat that does not even pack enough air to use the bottom the way it was designed.

Go ride in a modern Tritoon. You might be surprised how well it rides. I have owned 5 custom boats, three of those running north of 100 mph. I would have zero issues getting in a modern well built toon with big O/B's and running at speed. There are more than a few "custom" boat companies that build shit I would not ride in with big power.

 

[Wmc]

Another thing besides pissing in the wind? Why get a floating living room 2 70k motors? It’s still a living room not custom made speed boat?
Like putting rims on your wives mini van? Ha


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Went from a 30 Daytona to the floating living room, never would I go back. Also I roll with more then 4 people most of the time. Family and friends

 

[PlanB]

^^^ Very nice!

 

[pigsnot]

Went from a 30 Daytona to the floating living room, never would I go back. Also I roll with more then 4 people most of the time. Family and friends View attachment 896873

haha im with ya bro! 28v 26cat 33 cat here.. I been on some of these " Floating Living rooms" like yers above and i DefO want to make the switch. Its funny how people respond with opinions when they don't have any actual real facts to add lol let alone read any replies.

Love the orange color, first pick for me, then the deep royal blue. I just cant go "Slow" and by slow I mean less than 60, I like to be int he 70s. I got kids now and my speed days are dwindling, I want luxury and relaxation WITH 70ish speeds lol

to the haters, the world record floating living room speed is 114mph

 

[pigsnot]

^^^ Why do people run 496's in a cat? I would rather have a fast toon than a slow cat that does not even pack enough air to use the bottom the way it was designed.

Go ride in a modern Tritoon. You might be surprised how well it rides. I have owned 5 custom boats, three of those running north of 100 mph. I would have zero issues getting in a modern well built toon with big O/B's and running at speed. There are more than a few "custom" boat companies that build shit I would not ride in with big power.

I still have a 26 cat open bow with a merc496ho. fresh prop half tanks 2 ppl no weight I got it to 73mph.. now days loaded down we can hit 63-65. motor is original and 16 years old only issue was last trip last weekend blew a coolant seal, thing is a work horse

 

[PlanB]

I still have a 26 cat open bow with a merc496ho. fresh prop half tanks 2 ppl no weight I got it to 73mph.. now days loaded down we can hit 63-65. motor is original and 16 years old only issue was last trip last weekend blew a coolant seal, thing is a work horse

Whatever works. Just funny when I see people pile on the toon hate (they have probably never been on a modern one with power), yet an under powered custom is okay. My cat's did not really start working until about 80, especially the one in my avatar. Like I said, whatever works...

 

[pigsnot]

"they have probably never been on a modern one with power "

Exaccctly sometimes people start Loling before i can finish the word pontoon lol.. just SMH like nvm.. same people that want a ride soon as they see what ppl are actualy talkin bout. Ef the haters

 

[Wmc]

Let's Roll

 

[Hdgasser]

Let's Roll
View attachment 897387

Love hearing people say they'd never go back to their performance boats. I just sold my deck boat and ordered a 27ft avalon excalibur with a single 400r and I keep telling myself "you did the right thing."

I just don't wanna regret it... i don't think I will but it still crosses my mind.

 

[Lavey29]

I'd never put my family or friends on top of 3 beer cans running north of 60mph. I've owned some fantastic custom 100mph boats over the years but had the most fun with my pontoon the last 3 years before I sold it. They are not built for high performance or high speed. Just fun cruisers.

 

[Lavey29]

Love hearing people say they'd never go back to their performance boats. I just sold my deck boat and ordered a 27ft avalon excalibur with a single 400r and I keep telling myself "you did the right thing."

I just don't wanna regret it... i don't think I will but it still crosses my mind.

I had a 350 verado on my 27 Avalon. You will be quite happy with a 400R on there. I went from a lavey deck with a Teague 825 to the Avalon and had more fun with the family cruising the toon then blasting around in the deck.

 

[LowRiver2]

If going twins, I like the idea of non supercharged 300’s vs the 400’s for longevity. Pretty sure most passengers won’t know the difference of 65 vs 72 mph when on the water.

The late Keith Sayre used to tape the speedo of the Magic’s and ask the customer how fast they were going. The majority thought 70 when they were actually 55. Helped many a customer choose the 496 vs a 525 for the type of boating speeds they actually were happy with.

 

[Devious_Chris]

I have the 25’ Trifecta with twin 400’s. I have seen 77mph with one person. It runs 74mph with 3 guys, loaded coolers, and topped off on fuel.

I had thought that I would upgrade when the 450’s came out...... Then after using the boat for a year I realized that top speed was only seen a few times. I enjoy the acceleration over top speed, and with 400’s it accelerates hard enough for me.


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[LowRiver2]

Curious how this twin 250 Trifecta will run?

 

[stoker22405]

If its the same one that was on Instagram the twin 250's ran 62mph

 

[dezertrider]

We are about to order a 27’ Avalon Excalibar and I’m leaning towards twin 300s? Who has the joystick control? Is it worth the money?

 

[PlanB]

I have seen two twin 450 toons this past week on the lake. One was an Avalon accelerating out of Copper Canyon, and it was impressive for a toon.

 

[Groper]

I have seen two twin 450 toons this past week on the lake. One was an Avalon accelerating out of Copper Canyon, and it was impressive for a toon.

Myself included and maybe a few more than two, one of them happened to park next to me in the channel in his Trifecta he said he'd hit 85mph but daaauuuummmm that Boat had to be north of $200k.

So while were on the topic of Toon's Im kicking it around but a bit more conservative say a 25' Crest same mfg as Trifecta with a 400 or a 25' Manitou with a 350 (that's their max hp) except the Manitou has a limited interior selection with less features with both mfg's coming in around $115k calculated from their websites.
There are dealers East that are quite less so I'll be taking a road trip in the fall.

My neighbour bought a new $160k Avalon with a 400 last month and after a few hours on the water he was less than thrilled with the performance IDK what the deal was as I haven't talked to him since. It could be the break in period on the motor.

Any info one these mfg's or others would be appreciated.

 

[Devious_Chris]

Myself included and maybe a few more than two, one of them happened to park next to me in the channel in his Trifecta he said he'd hit 85mph but daaauuuummmm that Boat had to be north of $200k.

So while were on the topic of Toon's Im kicking it around but a bit more conservative say a 25' Crest same mfg as Trifecta with a 400 or a 25' Manitou with a 350 (that's their max hp) except the Manitou has a limited interior selection with less features with both mfg's coming in around $115k calculated from their websites.
There are dealers East that are quite less so I'll be taking a road trip in the fall.

My neighbour bought a new $160k Avalon with a 400 last month and after a few hours on the water he was less than thrilled with the performance IDK what the deal was as I haven't talked to him since. It could be the break in period on the motor.

Any info one these mfg's or others would be appreciated.

The manitou is a great boat, the only thing I didn’t like is the center room is larger than the outside toons. The issue is when you nose up on the beach it can lean to one side or the other.


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[throttle]

Myself included and maybe a few more than two, one of them happened to park next to me in the channel in his Trifecta he said he'd hit 85mph but daaauuuummmm that Boat had to be north of $200k.

So while were on the topic of Toon's Im kicking it around but a bit more conservative say a 25' Crest same mfg as Trifecta with a 400 or a 25' Manitou with a 350 (that's their max hp) except the Manitou has a limited interior selection with less features with both mfg's coming in around $115k calculated from their websites.
There are dealers East that are quite less so I'll be taking a road trip in the fall.

My neighbour bought a new $160k Avalon with a 400 last month and after a few hours on the water he was less than thrilled with the performance IDK what the deal was as I haven't talked to him since. It could be the break in period on the motor.

Any info one these mfg's or others would be appreciated.

The Crest is nice, however when I was shopping a couple years ago the dealer in havasu had limited inventory and I wanted to see what I was buying. Your post above mentions the Crest being same mfg as Trifecta, that is not the case. Forest River Marine builds Trifecta, Berkshire and SouthBay, not Crest. The Monitou has nice fit and finish, I think the ratings may have been upgraded for more hp. There is a beautiful red one currently having twin 450's put on it at Advantage Boats, just saying.

 

[Groper]

The Crest is nice, however when I was shopping a couple years ago the dealer in havasu had limited inventory and I wanted to see what I was buying. Your post above mentions the Crest being same mfg as Trifecta, that is not the case. Forest River Marine builds Trifecta, Berkshire and SouthBay, not Crest. The Monitou has nice fit and finish, I think the ratings may have been upgraded for more hp. There is a beautiful red one currently having twin 450's put on it at Advantage Boats, just saying.

You are correct after doing some research I discovered that Trifecta & Crest are indeed two different Co's after being told by someone that they were the same.

 

[J&k beer can]

I figure to ask questions here instead of new thread..
Updates from folks who bought dual motor toons..
We are looking at dual 350'-400's.
We have looked into several manufacturers... we understand build styles and there differences....
What would you do different after having one???
Fuel savings?
Insurance rates high?
Storage?(less or more) vest ,coolers etc...
maintenance with duals?
Or anything else you can think of..

We have been looking real hard into switching into dual motor toon life..
I guess my dreams of mti,outerlimits,dcb,skater ownership are fading..lmao..
Going to have to cave in soon for doggies again..
So that's a factor..
Easier for parents(80's) to get in and out from dock with side door..
Easier for everyone. We always seem to entertain at lake..

 

[Wmc]

Twins, way easier to maneuver. Mine has the side door and I love it. We use it all the time. When parked on the beach, open the door your coolers are right there. Down fall more wind.

 

[J&k beer can]

its going to be a windshield model.. should block out some wind when winter boating..
said f it and went and put a deposit on dual 400 toon....

 

[Groper]

its going to be a windshield model.. should block out some wind when winter boating..
said f it and went and put a deposit on dual 400 toon....

Haha I talked myself out of twins and put a deposit down on a 25' JC-Tritoon with a 350Zuki a few months ago, no windshield get a fng blanket if you're cold and it should be here in a few weeks.

 

[J&k beer can]

Haha I talked myself out of twins and put a deposit down on a 25' JC-Tritoon with a 350Zuki a few months ago, no windshield get a fng blanket if you're cold and it should be here in a few weeks.

Had to be duals..
Want some power still with some speed when loaded..
We like the look of the windshield models...
Maybe a model with heater..

 

[Groper]

And here you go just add a Commercial Propane gas heater and your all set for late September LOL

 

[J&k beer can]

And here you go just add a Commercial Propane gas heater and your all set for late September LOL


View attachment 1019703

thats funny stuff.. how did you know it was that brand....

we wont be getting that enclosure..

all good to go.
just waiting on some prep items to get done and delivery...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I wash just thing the same? I have a v bottom when I hire a boat wake it’s a fun ride. Couldn’t imagine crossing a wake in a big poontoon..


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how much do they charge for a boat wake????? and what hand do you wash your thing with????

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Had to be duals..
Want some power still with some speed when loaded..
We like the look of the windshield models...
Maybe a model with heater..

I took my windshield off,.. could have just took the center out,... but I hated how it made the toon feel real small... and no breeze

 

[J&k beer can]

Should have toon tomorrow if there no snags..

 

[TVMNick]

Should have toon tomorrow if there no snags..

Let us know your thoughts and initial impressions! Congrats!

 

[J&k beer can]

Let us know your thoughts and initial impressions! Congrats!

Thanks..
It's official we're tooners..
We will get it out this weekend..