Easement question for the all knowing?

[wet hull]

Question about easement. My property is 1.1 acres and at some point prior to our purchase a easement was signed over for city to run sewer mains down center of these roads it also gives access to 4 homes all on my property. My house stayed on septic for some reason. Since it's still technically my property and the main is on my property can I get my Class A plumber to tie into the sewer and avoid the city fees of around $6k? The easement will not be impacted once I tie in. I am sure the city will say no so they can get their money but maybe I can push back some. The yellow lines in the pic indicate my property lines. I would tie in on the north rd/ Andrea Pl.

 

[Outdrive1]

I have no idea what the answer to your question is. However the liability you would be exposed to, tapping into their sewer line in the center of the street seems like it could leave you exposed, during construction and into the future.

I would think you run a line to the edge of your property and they take it from there.


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[Sleek-Jet]

Where are you located?

Out here sewer laterals are all owned and maintained by the homeowner. Tap fees are paid but the municipality doesn't do any work.

 

[Taboma]

Certainly not "All knowing", but my property situation is similar as our roads are private and on our respective property's easements. Those easements are obviously established to grant the various utilities installation right of way and maintenance. I've never read any wording to the affect it allows you to freely connect or tie into them.
Having telephone or cable on your easement certainly doesn't allow you to tap into, or connect to them, your electrical, or water etc. I'm sure sewer is no different.

 

[wet hull]

We are located in Vista, CA. Zip 92081. The city wants their impact fees, we do the rest. Only requirement is that a Class A plumber ties into the actual sewer main. We already pay for city water and would add on sewer monthly fees as well.

 

[wet hull]

Certainly not "All knowing", but my property situation is similar as our roads are private and on our respective property's easements. Those easements are obviously established to grant the various utilities installation right of way and maintenance. I've never read any wording to the affect it allows you to freely connect or tie into them.
Having telephone or cable on your easement certainly doesn't allow you to tap into, or connect to them, your electrical, or water etc. I'm sure sewer is no different.

Kinda what I am thinking. Would be nice to push back and at least get fees reduced. Big chunk of coin on top of building the ADU. I am funding out of pocket so cant add to my construction loan.

 

[SOD]

Have you read the actual easement document in detail? It seems like a savvy landowner would have reserved the right to connect, maybe even without fees, prior to granting the easement. Plowing a street and public utilities though a property had to have some kind of offset.

 

[wet hull]

Have you read the actual easement document in detail? It seems like a savvy landowner would have reserved the right to connect, maybe even without fees, prior to granting the easement. Plowing a street and public utilities though a property had to have some kind of offset.

Admittedly no. I need to pull that record. My plumber thinks they most likely left a lateral for my property. Just need to find record of that as well.

 

[c_land]

My company does development review and outsourced plan check for a bunch of socal cities. We regularly see cities requiring connection to sewer when it is extended to within 300' of the PL and then they will also require the fees connection/impact fees.

You're going to have a rough time getting them waived or reduced. The connection fee money goes towards future system upgrades as the connections increase demand. One way to see if you have an argument for no connection fees is start asking your neighbors what they paid. If you find someone that didn't have to pay, go to the City and request records for their connection and what fees (if any) the neighbor paid. You can argue that since they didn't pay, you shouldn't have to either given the house being built at the same time, same size home, etc. I have seen this work before.

What is the immediate benefit to you of connecting to the sewer system? is your system failing?

 

[Taboma]

Kinda what I am thinking. Would be nice to push back and at least get fees reduced. Big chunk of coin on top of building the ADU. I am funding out of pocket so cant add to my construction loan.

Over 60 years ago my parent's house in Tustin was on septic. Maybe 10 years after they'd built, the county decided to run sewer around the neighborhood, stubbing out at each lot. Wasn't mandatory to tie-in, but if you did it cost you. Some neighbors glad to be rid of, or having had septic problems jumped right on board. Dad waited maybe another 5 years, then he and I hand dug a trench, extended the pipe, connected and backfilled the old septic ---- nobody was ever the wiser, at least while we owned it.
But, we didn't have to open up the street and connect to any main.
We're still on septic up here by Lake Hodges, can't see that ever changing --- well, not in my life time. But because there's no UG easement for cable, we're stuck forever with slow-ass DSL, while two blocks away they've got screaming streamin we can't enjoy. Maybe someday AT&T will pull in fiber, but they won't allow any cable companies to use their UG ducts.

 

[wet hull]

My company does development review and outsourced plan check for a bunch of socal cities. We regularly see cities requiring connection to sewer when it is extended to within 300' of the PL and then they will also require the fees connection/impact fees.

You're going to have a rough time getting them waived or reduced. The connection fee money goes towards future system upgrades as the connections increase demand. One way to see if you have an argument for no connection fees is start asking your neighbors what they paid. If you find someone that didn't have to pay, go to the City and request records for their connection and what fees (if any) the neighbor paid. You can argue that since they didn't pay, you shouldn't have to either given the house being built at the same time, same size home, etc. I have seen this work before.

What is the immediate benefit to you of connecting to the sewer system? is your system failing?

Thanks for info. Getting ready to start a ADU. Cannot tie that into my septic or run a new septic system.

 

[Taboma]

Have you read the actual easement document in detail? It seems like a savvy landowner would have reserved the right to connect, maybe even without fees, prior to granting the easement. Plowing a street and public utilities though a property had to have some kind of offset.

Those utility easements along with road easements are usually established when they split the parcels for development.

 

[wet hull]

Over 60 years ago my parent's house in Tustin was on septic. Maybe 10 years after they'd built, the county decided to run sewer around the neighborhood, stubbing out at each lot. Wasn't mandatory to tie-in, but if you did it cost you. Some neighbors glad to be rid of, or having had septic problems jumped right on board. Dad waited maybe another 5 years, then he and I hand dug a trench, extended the pipe, connected and backfilled the old septic ---- nobody was ever the wiser, at least while we owned it.
But, we didn't have to open up the street and connect to any main.
We're still on septic up here by Lake Hodges, can't see that ever changing --- well, not in my life time. But because there's no UG easement for cable, we're stuck forever with slow-ass DSL, while two blocks away they've got screaming streamin we can't enjoy. Maybe someday AT&T will pull in fiber, but they won't allow any cable companies to use their UG ducts.

That would be so easy of I could pull that off. Issue is I am pulling permits for ADU. Hopefully there is a Lateral and in my easement paperwork a loophole to tie in.

 

[Taboma]

That would be so easy of I could pull that off. Issue is I am pulling permits for ADU. Hopefully there is a Lateral and in my easement paperwork a loophole to tie in.

Curious, septic systems are originally sized + reserve and permitted for # of bedrooms (Here in SD County). How's that work when you add an ADU ?

 

[Sleek-Jet]

That would be so easy of I could pull that off. Issue is I am pulling permits for ADU. Hopefully there is a Lateral and in my easement paperwork a loophole to tie in.

Hopefully whoever negotiated the easement was savvy enough to put in a no-cost connection.

Typically when we negotiate an electrical.easment across a non-customers property a no connect fee clause is included to "sweeten" the deal.

 

[Justfishing]

They paid the prior property owner a fee. You bought the property subject to their easement. The easement means they basically own that section of your land. By that i mean it limits your use of it. You cant build on it. They have a right to dig it up and repair or replace the line as spelled out in the agreement.

They own the sewer line below the surface. It does not give you the right to use it, tap in to etc.

 

[c_land]

Thanks for info. Getting ready to start a ADU. Cannot tie that into my septic or run a new septic system.

Will they let you connect the new accessory unit only to the sewer and not the entire property? If the calculation is based on square footage and not a flat fee there may be savings.


Then come back when all the inspectors are gone and you have occupancy, connect your main house to the ADU line?

 

[wet hull]

Curious, septic systems are originally sized + reserve and permitted for # of bedrooms (Here in SD County). How's that work when you add an ADU ?

Yes but do to the location of septic in relation to ADU it will not work unless I pump it up hill. That is another whole set of problems

 

[wet hull]

Will they let you connect the new accessory unit only to the sewer and not the entire property? If the calculation is based on square footage and not a flat fee there may be savings.


Then come back when all the inspectors are gone and you have occupancy, connect your main house to the ADU line?

Yes. That is what we will do. We will connect a Y union and cap it temporarily

 

[Mandelon]

If there isn't a lateral at your property line, and the contractor has to tear up the street expect it to be pricey. Not many A licensed contractors would be willing to do that job without permits issued. Last one we did the City of San Diego charged $7500 to tie in, plus the cost of the plumbing work and paving crew. That was like $12,000 more I think. The city made us replace the curb, gutter and sidewalk too.

I had a couple companies bid it. Loya Constructors was the best priced. Arrow Pipeline was the highest.

 

[C-2]

You're going to have a rough time getting them waived or reduced. The connection fee money goes towards future system upgrades as the connections increase demand. One way to see if you have an argument for no connection fees is start asking your neighbors what they paid. If you find someone that didn't have to pay, go to the City and request records for their connection and what fees (if any) the neighbor paid. You can argue that since they didn't pay, you shouldn't have to either given the house being built at the same time, same size home, etc. I have seen this work before.

What is the immediate benefit to you of connecting to the sewer system? is your system failing?

Lotsa info here. I recently tried that argument when I had my water line installed, but they didn't buy it. The majority of the $15K connection fee (nearly 2/3) was for future maintenance, and I was arguing a non-conforming case (vacant lot vs. established residences)

Excellent info though, thanks for sharing.

 

[Instigator]

If you tie into the City Sewer without proper permitting you better have more money than the City or Governing body will ever want. The only way you will get away with it is to BUY your way out. Dont even try it.

 

[c_land]

If you tie into the City Sewer without proper permitting you better have more money than the City or Governing body will ever want. The only way you will get away with it is to BUY your way out. Dont even try it.

A friend did this with a very multi family situation in a socal city. Tied into the City system in one night. Started at 6PM and finished at 3AM. It’s going to be interesting when the water quality control board decides the property is required to come off septic and needs to connect to sewer.

I don’t know how they pulled it off, he’s got bigger balls than me.

 

[530RL]

It gets complicated so as SOD said, read the easement documents.

For example, sometimes the city pays to put in the line, and in that case they charge to connect. Many cities have programs where they will give you a discount to abandon a septic tank. Other cities have programs where when you pull a remodeling permit above a certain amount, you must abandon the septic and connect to the sewer and pay a fee.

Sometimes the developer puts in the line for the small subdivision or lot splits. In some of those cases the city signs an agreement whereby they eventually require homeowners to connect and pay the fee. And then some of that fee goes back to the developer to reimburse him/her for the costs of the line. Sometimes knows as a city share.

On big developments we finance, the sewer and water might be pulled a mile of two and when pulled, it is sized for the future development expected. In that case, the developer has to, in many cases, pay all of it and then other developers have to pay a fee to reimburse the first developer in the area for the costs of pulling the lines appropriate for future development as well as pay the city an impact fee for connection to the plant.

So it just depends.

But one thing for sure is that just because there is an easement across your property, it does not mean you are entitled to anything other than what was agreed to when the easement was established. That is why easements show up on title policies as exceptions.

Further, separate the line and connection from the use. Impact fees are made up of multiple components including the facility, the main lines and the smaller lines down a residential street. So every deal is different, especially when older large lots are split into smaller lots. But one thing is consistent, the city has the developer/builder/homeowner over the barrel and you typically end up taking it up the pooper.......pun intended.......

 

[Subadvantage]

Managing both a water and sewer utility, I would say you're stuck paying the fees. A utility easement gives the utility rights to own, operate, and maintain the utility within the easement for the benefit of the utility system's customers. Likely, it also prohibits any structure being constructed within the easement boundaries (however, being in the street, this would be moot). Private laterals from the sewer main are the responsibility of the property owner to install and maintain in nearly all sewer systems. It is highly likely that the utility installed a wye connection for your lateral to tie into, not the lateral itself though. Licensed, insured contractors are required whenever they work on or near our systems. The impacts fees are assessed to cover your share of the system benefits and then some.