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Electric bill f me... Pool related

DrunkenSailor

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So we installed our new pool heater and are running the pump way more than we used to on the high setting for the spa. We also haven't been good about turning the pump off after we use the spa as I like to circulate the water into the pool and I am trying to make up for the pool not circulating when we use the spa. Our set up is two valves for suction and return. Its really spa or pool. There have been a few nights this past month were it has run overnight which is me compensating for the spa use and the pool not circulating as it's not officially pool weather yet.

We got our electric bill and it was 700 bucks. I'm obviously gonna keep a tighter hand on when the pump runs and me working from home and the kids doing home school has certainly added to the bill.

Anyone have any suggestions on how they manage the pool circulation when the spa is in use?

Do we need to change our setup and add a dedicated spa pump? Pump speeds are 2830 rpm for cleaning, 2990 for spa jets 2750 for filtration.

Times are 7am to 4 pm for cleaning 4-8pm for filtration and the spa is used 3-4 times a week.

We battle algea every year so I'm reluctant to run the pump less. I really need to learn how to properly test and treat the pool as our 1 time a week pool guy isn't cutting it. Any suggestions on how to learn the art of chemical balance? Is it time to switch to a salt chlorinator?

@Melloyellovector

Wife wants to go solar. I want to fix the major root problem.
 

4Waters

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I don't worry about it, I switch everything over enjoy the spa and when I'm done I switch it back and leave it run for about 15-20 minutes to cool the heater off so it's not heat soaking.
 

DrunkenSailor

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SOLAR............ 4 pumps, 4 AC units, $10.50 per month. Still a 26% tax credit.
We have skip sheet under our metal roof. I know it's gonna be a whole new roof and underlayment to go down the solar path and I was hoping I wouldn't have to do it until it was time. Especially with the cost increases due to generally widespread fuckery.... That said what say you @BasilHayden ?
 

Mr. C

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I don't worry about it, I switch everything over enjoy the spa and when I'm done I switch it back and leave it run for about 15-20 minutes to cool the heater off so it's not heat soaking.
I’m wondering how long is the spa going. 6 + hours? We heat ours use it open the valves and all good. Usually 2-3 hour max spa time And that is only 3-4 times a week a coupe at night and usually sat & sun morning.
Old school pump runs one hour per 10 degrees of air temp.

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GRADS

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So you're running your pump 13 hours a day??? That's too much regardless what speed. Also algae has a little bit to do with filtration but more so chemicals.
 

4Waters

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I’m wondering how long is the spa going. 6 + hours? We heat ours use it open the valves and all good. Usually 2-3 hour max spa time And that is only 3-4 times a week a coupe at night and usually sat & sun morning.
Old school pump runs one hour per 10 degrees of air temp.

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My pool runs 5-6 hours a day, if the spa is 60° I can turn the heater on and it will be 100° in 60min
 

Waffles

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How big is your pool volume wise? Turn over rate is determined by dividing the total volume in gallons by pump flow rate (gpm) by 60.

Easiest way to keep the algae at bay is to keep your chlorine residual steady. I like to throw in a pool Rx ( copper sulfate) in the basket just for shits and giggles and ours stays clear year round.

I also do a majority of the cleaning in the late afternoon/night because that’s when chlorine is the most effective.
 
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SoCalDave

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Yeah your pump run time is way long. Sounds more like chemical imbalance to me. If your not willing to take it over yourself I'd find another pool service.
 

Mr. C

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Wife wants to go solar. I want to fix the major root problem.
Solar is a definite plus. Before we added solar we averaged 775 a month for the year. We now are at about 335. Solar cost and Edison overages. Just sayin.


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Uncle Dave

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How did you determine your filtration/ cleaning running speeds? When you say "cleaning" are you running a cleaner?

Any time you have skimming action you are "cleaning and filtering."

What kind of filter?

How many Lb of pressure at each speed?

I was able to turn my pump waaaay down and ran it low and slow like 2500 RPM with good skimming action until I was heating, or using it as a booster pump for the jacuzzi.

With a single pump system you are either running and heating one or the other.
About the only thing you can do to keep cleaning the main pool is to use a robotic cleaner, or add a secondary pump.
 
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DrunkenSailor

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Lol not too drunk to turn it off. I just worry that we don't circulate the pool when we are in it so I'm running it at night to compensate. My wife likes to have the spa at 98 while the kids are in the pool as she hates to be cold.

Happy wife high electricity bill lol.
 

DrunkenSailor

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How did you determine your filtration/ cleaning running speeds? When you say "cleaning" are you running a cleaner?

Any time you have skimming action you are "cleaning and filtering."

What kind of filter?

How many Lb of pressure at each speed?

I was able to turn my pump waaaay down and ran it low and slow like 22500 RPM with good skimming action until I was heating, or using it as a booster pump for the jacuzzi.

With a single pump system you are either running and heating one or the other.
About the only thing you can do to keep cleaning the main pool is to use a robotic cleaner, or add a secondary pump.
They were set when I bought the house and never changed them. With your post i just realized that we haven't had a pool sweep in years and I'm still running the pump to a setting to run it. Not smart. I have been doing some reading today.... Lots of stuff that I just thought the pool guy knows what he's doing.... I have a lot to learn.
 

Mr. C

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They were set when I bought the house and never changed them. With your post i just realized that we haven't had a pool sweep in years and I'm still running the pump to a setting to run it. Not smart. I have been doing some reading today.... Lots of stuff that I just thought the pool guy knows what he's doing.... I have a lot to learn.
Once you learn it though. And get your system down. I bet you would spend less than an hour a week keeping it up. Including brushing / vacuuming it. I learned the hard way also. It’s much harder to get it back into shape than stay on top of it to begin with.


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Ace in the Hole

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We have skip sheet under our metal roof. I know it's gonna be a whole new roof and underlayment to go down the solar path and I was hoping I wouldn't have to do it until it was time. Especially with the cost increases due to generally widespread fuckery.... That said what say you @BasilHayden ?
Don't just throw solar at it... you need to figure out your real usage before spending thousands on solar. If it were me making a recommendation I would split the pumps, and have it on a timer system that regardless kicks it off after xxxx amount of time.

Why kind of metal roofing do you have? You have roughly 1.75 years of tax credit time remaining at 26%, but with contract time etc you have maybe a year and a half max. Our material costs are increasing (mounts, rail etc)..so if thats something you are considering it would be good to start soliciting bids and lock in a price, avoid solar financing if you can as it carries heavy contractor fees which is just more in principle you will owe.
 

Uncle Dave

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They were set when I bought the house and never changed them. With your post i just realized that we haven't had a pool sweep in years and I'm still running the pump to a setting to run it. Not smart. I have been doing some reading today.... Lots of stuff that I just thought the pool guy knows what he's doing.... I have a lot to learn.
Dont feel so bad - this is real common. pool guys rarely to never have time to do anything but the basics on a route and tuning takes a little time and by running the system hard it makes his job easier.

In tuning the RPM pop the top off the skimmer and take a picture of the setup running at the lower speed. look closely at the very top of the water - you want to turn it down until you can see a total of threee "harmonics" in the movement - that establishes minimum workable flow and you should get a dramatic reduction in draw- I was down to around 220-250 watts from 746 (1 HP) Modern pool design focuses on lowering pressure wherever possible.

By the time were finished you'll probably fire the pool guy. I had my pool down to about a total of 20 minutes a week of effort and a once every 2 month trip for chems.

On learning dont be the slightest bit intimidated by any of this shit - you can keep a pool in balance with three chemicals, bleach, borax and baking soda and a series of super simple tests.

I recommend you dial it in with a basic taylor kit then once in balance switch to test strips. Well walk you through this, bunch of experience here.

When you talk about getting solar - are you talking for electricity or pool/spa heat- because they are completely different. I used nearly all my space at the LA house to heat water in the spa and pool.


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DrunkenSailor

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Dont feel so bad - this is real common. pool guys rarely to never have time to do anything but the basics on a route and tuning takes a little time and by running the system hard it makes his job easier.

In tuning the RPM pop the top off the skimmer and take a picture of the setup running at the lower speed. look closely at the very top of the water - you want to turn it down until you can see a total of threee "harmonics" in the movement - that establishes minimum workable flow and you should get a dramatic reduction in draw- I was down to around 22-250 watts from 746 (1 HP) Modern pool design focuses on lowering pressure wherever possible.

By the time were finished you'll probably fire the pool guy. I had my pool down to about a total of 20 minutes a week of effort and a once every 2 month trip for chems.

On learning dont be the slightest bit intimidated by any of this shit - you can keep a pool in balance with three chemicals, bleach, borax and baking soda and a series of super simple tests.

I recommend you dial it in with a basic taylor kit then once in balance switch to test strips. Well walk you through this, bunch of experience here.

When you talk about getting solar - are you talking for electricity or pool/spa heat- because they are completely different. I used nearly all my space at the LA house to heat water in the spa and pool.


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I really appreciate it.

It would just be solar for electric not for heat our gas heater is super efficient. Costs maybe 30-40 bucks to heat the pool to 84. That's when it's been cold.
 

Lumpy

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If you were my customer...I would have fired you after the first month.
 

Lumpy

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Dont feel so bad - this is real common. pool guys rarely to never have time to do anything but the basics on a route and tuning takes a little time and by running the system hard it makes his job easier.

In tuning the RPM pop the top off the skimmer and take a picture of the setup running at the lower speed. look closely at the very top of the water - you want to turn it down until you can see a total of threee "harmonics" in the movement - that establishes minimum workable flow and you should get a dramatic reduction in draw- I was down to around 22-250 watts from 746 (1 HP) Modern pool design focuses on lowering pressure wherever possible.

By the time were finished you'll probably fire the pool guy. I had my pool down to about a total of 20 minutes a week of effort and a once every 2 month trip for chems.

On learning dont be the slightest bit intimidated by any of this shit - you can keep a pool in balance with three chemicals, bleach, borax and baking soda and a series of super simple tests.

I recommend you dial it in with a basic taylor kit then once in balance switch to test strips. Well walk you through this, bunch of experience here.

When you talk about getting solar - are you talking for electricity or pool/spa heat- because they are completely different. I used nearly all my space at the LA house to heat water in the spa and pool.


View attachment 998465 View attachment 998466 View attachment 998467
Ya...you too
 

HOOTER SLED-

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Why the hell would you run your pump so many hours daily? Lol.
You might wanna check too....I know Edison peak hours for me are 4-9pm. Try not to use shit at that time. Tvs and lights on only for.me. Pump 6 hours a day if I can......8 in Summer. I'll run it more on weekends, or if I have a bunch of peeps in it.
 

Uncle Dave

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I really appreciate it.

It would just be solar for electric not for heat our gas heater is super efficient. Costs maybe 30-40 bucks to heat the pool to 84. That's when it's been cold.
Curious .....

SO how often do you heat it up ? How about the jacuzzi?

Whats your current swim season ?
 

rivermobster

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So we installed our new pool heater and are running the pump way more than we used to on the high setting for the spa. We also haven't been good about turning the pump off after we use the spa as I like to circulate the water into the pool and I am trying to make up for the pool not circulating when we use the spa. Our set up is two valves for suction and return. Its really spa or pool. There have been a few nights this past month were it has run overnight which is me compensating for the spa use and the pool not circulating as it's not officially pool weather yet.

We got our electric bill and it was 700 bucks. I'm obviously gonna keep a tighter hand on when the pump runs and me working from home and the kids doing home school has certainly added to the bill.

Anyone have any suggestions on how they manage the pool circulation when the spa is in use?

Do we need to change our setup and add a dedicated spa pump? Pump speeds are 2830 rpm for cleaning, 2990 for spa jets 2750 for filtration.

Times are 7am to 4 pm for cleaning 4-8pm for filtration and the spa is used 3-4 times a week.

We battle algea every year so I'm reluctant to run the pump less. I really need to learn how to properly test and treat the pool as our 1 time a week pool guy isn't cutting it. Any suggestions on how to learn the art of chemical balance? Is it time to switch to a salt chlorinator?

@Melloyellovector

Wife wants to go solar. I want to fix the major root problem.
Does your spa Not spillover into the pool during normal operation?

I learned about water balance when I bought a test kit from Taylor Technology. The kit comes with a booklet that lays it all out for you.

Then download the app for your phone, enter your pools specs, and it will tell you how much chemicals to use, for the results you see with your test kit.

Kiss all the deposits on your tile goodbye forever.👍

 

Uncle Dave

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Does your spa Not spillover into the pool during normal operation?

I learned about water balance when I bought a test kit from Taylor Technology. The kit comes with a booklet that lays it all out for you.

Then download the app for your phone, enter your pools specs, and it will tell you how much chemicals to use, for the results you see with your test kit.

Kiss all the deposits on your tile goodbye forever.👍

I cant imagine it doesnt..but Ive seen stand alone deals that require switching.

Ive seen all kinds of wacky shit - Ive been dealing with pools since I was a kid.
 

rivermobster

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I cant imagine it doesnt..but Ive seen stand alone deals that require switching.

Ive seen all kinds of wacky shit - Ive been dealing with pools since I was a kid.
I agree, but from reading his post, he made it sound like it doesn't.

Pics would definitely help...
 

WhatExit?

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Times are 7am to 4 pm for cleaning 4-8pm for filtration and the spa is used 3-4 times a week.
I'm no pool expert even though I've owned one for the past decades. That said, 7-4 and 4-8 is 13 hours a day which is far too long ($$$)
 

rivermobster

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Running time depends mostly on the type of pump you run, and the sanation system you have.

Salt water pools don't make chlorine unless the pump IS running, and I believe it requires a certain flow rate as well.

Variable speed pumps can be programmed all kinda crazy ways. I think I have 4 different start/stop times programed into mine, and I have different RPMs set for every different cycle.

Everyone's pool is different! There is no one size fits all timing schedule. Too many variables in play...
 

DrunkenSailor

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It has a spill but when it's set to spa only it doesn't spill over. During normal operation it does.

Pics
16200127020772061599848342154640.jpg
16200127351789208353439962905078.jpg


Valve on the right is inlet the left is outlet.

We heat the jacuzzi 3-4 times a week. Swim season is when its hot lol but that has a lot to do with having a gas heater when we didn't before.
 

DrunkenSailor

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Whole system needs a cleanup. I think we are gonna redo the pool next year and replumb the whole thing and clean up the decades of additions and subtractions.
 

rivermobster

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Whole system needs a cleanup. I think we are gonna redo the pool next year and replumb the whole thing and clean up the decades of additions and subtractions.
First, move that plastic bottle away from your heater! LoL

Second, is that timer box the only thing controlling your pump? Is that a single speed pump? What HP?
 

Melloyellovector

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Your pool ain’t that big, you should be able to run it 6hours or so per day at around 2000-2200rpm
Spa mode adjust speed to what you want your jet strength at.
If your getting algae it’s likely chem balance or filter dirty and your filter speeds won’t matter if filter slowing the flow to nothing
No way should it need that many hours. Best to run it morning into afternoon before peak hours.
If your using spa that often you sure that 700 isn’t your gas bill? Lol

You have valve/stubs for solar that looks like cut out/removed
And what looks like an old solar control panel on wall
 

petie6464

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Pentair variable speed, soft start pump is your friend.

All that other crap I can't comment on other than salt systems, if you have one just get a pair of channel locks and squeeze your scrotum with them, after that get a Sawzall, some PVC, primer or if you're in the know a jug off acetone and bypass that magical joke box and your all set.
 

CobraDave

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You can drop the RPMs way down on the cleaning cycle. I run 45 mins for my pool vac at around 2700. Then it runs 8 hours at 1100 rpms. Then it finishes with another 45 minutes for the vac. The pool is off all night. These pumps will save electricity and be happier if you run them slower for longer.

Check out trouble free pools and pool school and learn about each test you need. When algae keeps coming into play the chlorine and cyn test are important and are related.


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Melloyellovector

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Pentair variable speed, soft start pump is your friend.

All that other crap I can't comment on other than salt systems, if you have one just get a pair of channel locks and squeeze your scrotum with them, after that get a Sawzall, some PVC, primer or if you're in the know a jug off acetone and bypass that magical joke box and your all set.
You afraid of salt systems ?
 

Mr. C

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minor. and i know you said you will be doing a clean up - but maybe throw a coat of spry paint on your PVC plumbing to help from it getting brittle
 

bldrinker

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My wife had me talked into a pool. Then we started asking our friends what the electric bill was like.
Eff that noise!!! The electric bill makes the pool cost look cheap.
 
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petie6464

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You afraid of salt systems ?
Nope they just suck. A complex answer to a simple question.

Case in point; My neighbors, a retired knucklehead. Has this crazy salt system, a well known pool service and constant issues and repairs. Tells me he's spent over $5k in the last two years keeping this thing going and his pool has fouled a few times.

I offer to straighten him out get rid of the salt system, also get rid of his pool service. Zero issues, a basic backyard pool is just that basic, the whole salt system is an unnecessary gimmick and they just don't work in the crazy desert heat.
 

Melloyellovector

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Nope they just suck. A complex answer to a simple question.

Case in point; My neighbors, a retired knucklehead. Has this crazy salt system, a well known pool service and constant issues and repairs. Tells me he's spent over $5k in the last two years keeping this thing going and his pool has fouled a few times.

I offer to straighten him out get rid of the salt system, also get rid of his pool service. Zero issues, a basic backyard pool is just that basic, the whole salt system is an unnecessary gimmick and they just don't work in the crazy desert heat.
Funny because Iv installed 100s of salt systems, on new pools and remodels. Think we have had issues on maybe 2 units ever.
I have personally had 1 for over 5 years and just replaced the cell only about a month ago. My other houses had with zero issues also.
If your neighbor spent 5k on repairs in 2 years, sounds like a service guy was screwing him. Brand new units don’t even cost that much and they have warranties longer then 2 years soooooo
 

CobraDave

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Do pools in Havasu ever get plummed with two cells to keep up with heat?

I guess you would just add a tab or two in the summer.


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Ziggy

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When was the last time the water was changed? It may be so saturated with solids your pool chems might be completely useless.
I run my Havasu pool at 1750rpm for 4 hrs so the pool sweeper runs around without it crawling out the sides then drop rpm to 1200ish for another 4 hrs to continue skimming.
 

Motor Boater

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Definitely run your pumps at night when the electricity is cheaper. You running during some peak hours.
 

petie6464

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Funny because Iv installed 100s of salt systems, on new pools and remodels. Think we have had issues on maybe 2 units ever.
I have personally had 1 for over 5 years and just replaced the cell only about a month ago. My other houses had with zero issues also.
If your neighbor spent 5k on repairs in 2 years, sounds like a service guy was screwing him. Brand new units don’t even cost that much and they have warranties longer then 2 years soooooo
I have no doubt he was getting screwed. Seen a lots of these here in Havasu, everyone I've talked to says they have had recurring problems. Personally I don't see why anyone would waste there money on one when its expensive, problematic and totally unnecessary.

To each his own. .
 
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