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Electrician Question

Sleek-Jet

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You mind if I share your story with my people? Great illustration of how customer service attitude can make all the difference.
 

Christopher Lucero

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Yeah, that 30 amp solution would run his shop with plenty left over. Is there an option to make the sun shine at night?

:rolleyes:
well, he did say 100 amps was not really a requirement...
I do not think I will need 100 amps
but it is always good to build in some margin to the system
nonetheless

knowing you are an electrician I will not second guess your mockery of my proposition. I humbly submit that even after adding a battery bank an off grid solar solution is competitive. but, being that you are an electrician, I defer to your expertise to help the OP through this build. best regards.
 

rrrr

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well, he did say 100 amps was not really a requirement...

but it is always good to build in some margin to the system
nonetheless

knowing you are an electrician I will not second guess your mockery of my proposition. I humbly submit that even after adding a battery bank an off grid solar solution is competitive. but, being that you are an electrician, I defer to your expertise to help the OP through this build. best regards.
What good are batteries? They have a finite run time.
 

CarolynandBob

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I am surprised you did not consider a solar solution. full 4kW 120VAC kit is around $6k on ebay. you can upgrade to a two phase or three phase inverter for around $2k more.
I need constant power for the camera's when we are gone. We spend winters in Florida and want to have cameras running. Plus I need about 55 amps when I turn on the a/c. Another reason is I do not know what the future holds. May end up running a welder in the future.

I did really research a generator. Even to get a big enough one to run the a/c. Also researched solar powered cameras. In the end I figured it just wasn't a good long term solution.
 

Christopher Lucero

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What good are batteries? They have a finite run time.
wow. I really respect your authority, but I am perplexed that you are unaware of how off grid solar works.
excess charge provided by solar generated electrons is plated onto batteries during daytime for consumption during cloudy or nighttime consumption.
my own home has a single phase system that can run indefinitely should mains power fail or be turned off. but it is single phase so my A/C unit and oven are unpowered when the other phase is removed. nonetheless, the system charges during the day and we use excess at night (if mains are out). we are in a high insolation area at south 34 degrees.
I am going to go fill in the blanks for you and the OP by roughing out a possible system that may work for him (and you I suppose).

Plus I need about 55 amps when I turn on the a/c
got it. if you are not already dead set against considering a solar solution, can you provide just a few details
...where is the home? how many inductive loads? I know about the A/C and will assume 55A continuous...anything else with +++ inductive or high inrush? expected average continuous load when you are in there working?
No worries. continuous power is possible. the off grid thing is popular in Germany, so even northern climes can be engineered.
Your cameras will be subject to interruption of internet service I suppose, but we can even engineer a small generator backup as double redundancy in case the batteries deplete under snowy or cloudy conditions. maybe even triple redundant with a small circuit from mains to run the cameras alone in case of gen/solar incapacity, rather than a buried 100/200/400A line.
hmmm...was that an edit? a welder. will investigate.
 
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CarolynandBob

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wow. I really respect your authority, but I am perplexed that you are unaware of how off grid solar works.
excess charge provided by solar generated electrons is plated onto batteries during daytime for consumption during cloudy or nighttime consumption.
my own home has a single phase system that can run indefinitely should mains power fail or be turned off. but it is single phase so my A/C unit and oven are unpowered when the other phase is removed. nonetheless, the system charges during the day and we use excess at night (if mains are out). we are in a high insolation area at south 34 degrees.
I am going to go fill in the blanks for you and the OP by roughing out a possible system that may work for him (and you I suppose).


got it. if you are not already dead set against considering a solar solution, can you provide just a few details
...where is the home? how many inductive loads? I know about the A/C and will assume 55A continuous...anything else with +++ inductive or high inrush? expected average continuous load when you are in there working?
No worries. continuous power is possible. the off grid thing is popular in Germany, so even northern climes can be engineered.
Your cameras will be subject to interruption of internet service I suppose, but we can even engineer a small generator backup as double redundancy in case the batteries deplete under snowy or cloudy conditions. maybe even triple redundant with a small circuit from mains to run the cameras alone in case of gen/solar incapacity, rather than a buried 100/200/400A line.
hmmm...was that an edit? a welder. will investigate.
Welder maybe in the future. Nothing else with high load currently. Expected load when working I was thinking 60amp. The a/c I am looking at is 30amp. Shop in in west Tennesee. Town of Big Sandy. Isnโ€™t solar a much more expensive option initially? I had solar on my home in San Diego. Yes the electric bills were nice, but no battery etc. That was a $52k system in 2003. $26k after rebates.

As I said we are only there 6 months, so I do not think the cost vs benefit would work out. You can give me the ball park number on a system you are talking about. I am always interested in different ways and learning something new.
 

Christopher Lucero

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sorry, I did not catch this post earlier

this project
...you are already going in with easement and trench and have bought conduit. so sorry if I have bothered you.

interested in different ways and learning something new.
but I still will exercise myself as a personal curiosity and to help make the c/b tradeoff clearer.

What are the rates at Big Sandy Co-op?...might help me when doing the payback period.
 

rrrr

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Your cameras will be subject to interruption of internet service I suppose, but we can even engineer a small generator backup as double redundancy in case the batteries deplete under snowy or cloudy conditions.
I know how solar systems work. :rolleyes:

You claim your home system will stay up "indefinitely." But in the next paragraph, the undeniable fact emerges. As I said, batteries have a finite capacity. Your answer would be to provide more batteries.

A solar system would be an expensive and unsatisfactory solution for the OP's requirements. Your suggestion to provide a generator to power his cameras, a one or two amp load, is laughable. No competent engineer would consider such a thing, unless, of course, he was trying to sell a solar installation.

But go ahead and peddle your psuedo expertise.
 
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CarolynandBob

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sorry, I did not catch this post earlier


...you are already going in with easement and trench and have bought conduit. so sorry if I have bothered you.



but I still will exercise myself as a personal curiosity and to help make the c/b tradeoff clearer.

What are the rates at Big Sandy Co-op?...might help me when doing the payback period.
You have not bothered me at all.

Yes I have the easement and bought the conduit. which can be returned. Won't start trenching until the first week of June.

Co-op? I assume you are talking electric co rates. In April we used 49kwh and was charged $28.20. We got back here in April 23, so a lot of that is a base rate. We leave the heat on 55 deg when we are gone. Only other thing on is the cameras and router. Back in May of 2020 we used 474 kwh and was charged $76.89. We were here the whole month of May. I am assuming you divide 76.89 by 474, which is 0.16221519 per kwh.
 

Christopher Lucero

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I know how solar systems work. :rolleyes:

You claim your home system will stay up "indefinitely." But in the next paragraph, the undeniable fact emerges. As I said, batteries have a finite capacity. Your answer would be to provide more batteries.

A solar system would be an expensive and unsatisfactory solution for the OP's requirements. Your suggestion to provide a generator to power his cameras, a one or two amp load, is laughable. No competent engineer would consider such a thing, unless, of course, he was trying to sell a solar installation.

But go ahead and peddle your psuedo expertise.
OK. I will. Thanks for being a source of problems to solve.
I obviously do not agree that solar would be 'expensive and unsatisfactory' before the fact of examining an engineered solution, and cost analysis. I do this because it has been demonstrated dozens of times for me and friends to be cost effective, so our experiences are divergent.
You are likely expressing an opinion from your experience.
I have been told RDP is a friendly place, but disagreement you are expressing your opinion and the tone of it is somewhat unfriendly and hostile .
I am not an installer, just a DIY guy that has found that the DIY route and owner-builder option is nearly plug and play, and personally fulfilling, and economically attractive.

I am not selling anything, not going to make a dime for my effort...I'm just hoping to help a fellow American, a stranger, because I can.

SO on the odd chance that I somehow got in your knickers for being so bold as to examine as solution for free for the OP, who himself is somewhat more friendly and tolerant of my initiative, and more aligned with what I am told is the RDP culture...
...on that odd chance that you are upset, here is a clip from Seinfeld that may help you by providing a chuckle.
Best regards.
UPDATE: rrrr did end up being right about the solar solution being unsatifactory. The solar project could not economically accommodate high and very temporary peak demands and long periods of dormancy over the winter while c&b were away.
 
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CarolynandBob

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If you look close you will see that is a different machine in the second pic. Hit rock and needed a bigger excavator. Even that one didn't get through all of the rock. Will get the jackhammer attachment tomorrow. Will get more pics today, but we are about 2/3 done. A lot can't get done until tomorrow, because it goes through driveway and road that I want to close up quickly. Will need the inspector to give the ok in order to close.
 

CarolynandBob

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This turned out to be kind of a nightmare project, however we persevered, with a lot of help from the electric company.

Problems started with us trenching from that pole I talked about in the last pic. We ran into their septic system. We didn't damage it as I just happen to be in front of the excavator when I saw the side of a leach line. The owners thought the septic was on the other side of the house.

So now what? We saw an electric pole in the adjacent field that supplied the house we were going to trench through. I knew the pole was there, but the electric co said it was to far to pull it from there. There had been a guy coming out to inspect when needed and he said let me talk to the boss. Came back and said he got approval to pull the line the 360ft instead of the the rule of only pulling it 300ft.

Awesome, now I have to get an easement from the owners of the land. No one at the house next to the land. My wife does some research and finds out the owner died last December. So, the same guy that is out looking at the job we were doing goes to the electric meter at the house, calls in and gets me the number of who is paying the bill. Left her a message. Her husband calls says no problem on the easement, but we are in probate and have to talk to the lawyer. Dammit, this could take a long time. He send me a text with the lawyers name and number. Turns out it is the same lawyer we are using to put our house in our trust. Talk to him and he says no problem it will take about a week. We are off and running again.

Next thing that happened is we hit a bunch of rock about 2 feet down. I order another excavator in with a breaker hammer on it. We start breaking rock with one and digging it out with the other. Taking forever and we aren't getting very far. Took us 7 hours to go 40ft. Asked the rental co if they have a bigger breaker than the one we had. The do but it is broke and the bigger excavator that is need to run it is out on another long job. Frustrated as hell I am close to throwing in the towel and buy a big generator to run the shop.

The electric guy comes by to see how we are doing. Sees what is going on and can't believe there is that much rock down there. Us either. He leaves, but calls back and says the supervisor is going to come out in an hour. When the super get there he looks everything over and says he heard I may scrap it and get a generator. I said yeah I just can't see trying to bust this rock for who know how long. I will lose a bunch of money that I already have in, but that is life. He says he can't let that happen. He says we can put a pole here and one here and you won't have to trench more than another 10 ft or so. We would also have to cut one tree down. Fuck yes I 'll cut that tree down.

The other guy stops by again and is surprised at what the super said. He is not suppose to allow what they are going to do. He said the guy is retiring the end of the year and probably only did it, because he won't really get in trouble.

So once the easement comes in they will run the wire. I just can't believe how helpful they were. A lot of people here told me that it is just different in the south.
 

Taboma

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I'm in awe ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ‘ Bravo for you and sticking with it despite so many unforeseen obstacles being tossed in your path. Really awesome the power company was willing to work with you and make some concessions to make it happen --- Again Bravo ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘
Can't wait to see the lights on ๐Ÿ˜

PS: Damn, that's some purty country !!!!
 

CarolynandBob

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I'm in awe ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ‘ Bravo for you and sticking with it despite so many unforeseen obstacles being tossed in your path. Really awesome the power company was willing to work with you and make some concessions to make it happen --- Again Bravo ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘
Can't wait to see the lights on ๐Ÿ˜

PS: Damn, that's some purty country !!!!
Thank you. Here is our view most nights.

IMG_0446.JPG


For some reason we are seeing more wild life this year. 2 weeks ago saw a pretty good sized bobcat creeping up the hill beside the house. Last week sitting on the patio talking with my friend and we hear some movement out front. Grab the flashlight and saw a fox. It went into the woods and we heard a bunch of deer running away. Then the next morning a deer was in the front having breakfast. There is good and bad though. Was walking down the path you see above and saw some trash. Went to go pick it up and heard a rattler. I stopped and looked around. Off to my left about 15 ft in front of me was a snake. Looked about 7-8ft long and the rattle was going. I backed up and walked the other way. Nature worked, he did what he was suppose to do and so did I.
 

Taboma

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Thank you. Here is our view most nights.

View attachment 1013880

For some reason we are seeing more wild life this year. 2 weeks ago saw a pretty good sized bobcat creeping up the hill beside the house. Last week sitting on the patio talking with my friend and we hear some movement out front. Grab the flashlight and saw a fox. It went into the woods and we heard a bunch of deer running away. Then the next morning a deer was in the front having breakfast. There is good and bad though. Was walking down the path you see above and saw some trash. Went to go pick it up and heard a rattler. I stopped and looked around. Off to my left about 15 ft in front of me was a snake. Looked about 7-8ft long and the rattle was going. I backed up and walked the other way. Nature worked, he did what he was suppose to do and so did I.
Keep the grass short ๐Ÿ˜ Here in rural SD, when I go into my grove this time of year, I tend to carry a rake or my big cordless blower and either rake or blow the leaves off my main pathways. Hoping the disturbance will cause one to alert, or by blowing I'll expose him or cause him to move and notice the movement. Bastards are really well camo'ed in the avocado leaves. I mow the grove or weed whack early in the season, so during rattler season it' pretty much just leaves to provide cover.

Doing some underground electrical distribution in Mission Viejo years ago. Damned rattler dropped into our trench while we were all off to the side having lunch.
Fortunately, another trades person saw him and altered us. Bastard was still hard to find, because he was concealed under the edge of the pair of 4" we'd already laid in the trench.
We watched REAL good after that. :oops:
 

CarolynandBob

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Keep the grass short ๐Ÿ˜ Here in rural SD, when I go into my grove this time of year, I tend to carry a rake or my big cordless blower and either rake or blow the leaves off my main pathways. Hoping the disturbance will cause one to alert, or by blowing I'll expose him or cause him to move and notice the movement. Bastards are really well camo'ed in the avocado leaves. I mow the grove or weed whack early in the season, so during rattler season it' pretty much just leaves to provide cover.

Doing some underground electrical distribution in Mission Viejo years ago. Damned rattler dropped into our trench while we were all off to the side having lunch.
Fortunately, another trades person saw him and altered us. Bastard was still hard to find, because he was concealed under the edge of the pair of 4" we'd already laid in the trench.
We watched REAL good after that. :oops:
I am familiar with rural SD. We lived in Jamul for 8 yrs before we retired and went on the road. Where are you?

I usually make noise as well, but I was thinking about something else and almost regretted it.
 

Taboma

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I am familiar with rural SD. We lived in Jamul for 8 yrs before we retired and went on the road. Where are you?

I usually make noise as well, but I was thinking about something else and almost regretted it.
We're up above Lake Hodges, with the San Dieguito River Park Conservancy (From Julian to Del Mar) behind us. So lots of critters, large and small wondering around at night.
I've got 4 game cams out and I find it both amazing and so amusing the animal critters wandering through here at night. Lived up here for over 30 years and had never seen most of these night visitors.
 
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