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Engine oil filters. To fill, or not to fill with oil on an installation

welldigger00

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Ok, here’s one for the pro’s. I have always pre filled an engine oil filter, fuel filters, hydraulic filters, etc, when I do a scheduled maintenance. If I remember correctly, my engine builder said to pre fill to saturate the pleats so they don’t tear out or fail upon start up. My brother in law had an engine built by a very reputable engine builder in the off road race world that said that technique is very bad, and to install them dry. Something about an air bubble or something like that will cause damage upon startup if you pre fill them. Any thoughts? Oh, and Grads, move along, unless you can behave like a grown up


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LHC30

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I’ve done it both ways, dry when the filter is horizontal. Never could tell there were any problems. The oil pressure pops up in a second or two.
 

welldigger00

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That is an interesting read. The quarts I use are plastic screw top ones. No problem with the seal material getting into the engine.


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coolchange

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That's interesting. Never would have thought about contaminating from a fresh oil jug.
 

Blue

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Only on cartridge filters
 

Carlson-jet

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Air bubbles? LOL
The empty canister is an air bubble extreme.
I don't really think it matters if the engine is built properly and it is a block mounted filter.
On a remoter filter if possible, I fill it.
 

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I pre fill when I can. I have had foreign objects fall into the filter while filling it and the whole filter then goes in the trash and another new one comes out and I'm more careful this time.
 

Moneypit

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If you're worried about any pressure delay kill the ignition, give the engine two or five 15 seconds cranking and the pressure should come up. I only do this if an engine has set for a while before the filter change...Adding a "Slick 50" type additive is good insurance against "dry" starts....
Ray
 

welldigger00

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It seems like everyone is in agreement here with fill the filter first, unless horizontal. The engine builder that my brother in law uses to build his race motors was adamant about not filling it due to major engine damage. I would like to hear what the engine builders have to say that are members here.


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lbhsbz

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It doesn't hurt, but it's not necessary. There are a lot of engines out there that have gone far more than 300K miles...many over 500K miles. I can almost guarantee that none of these have ever had the filter filled during oil changes.

It's something that makes a person feel better...that's all.
 

KevinR

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If you're worried about any pressure delay kill the ignition, give the engine two or five 15 seconds cranking and the pressure should come up. I only do this if an engine has set for a while before the filter change...Adding a "Slick 50" type additive is good insurance against "dry" starts....
Ray
This is the way my 2005 FORD GT service manual says to do it after an oil change with the dry sump system. Takes about 20-30 seconds to get pressure. Then fire that baby up!
 

rrrr

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That is an interesting read. The quarts I use are plastic screw top ones. No problem with the seal material getting into the engine.


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It goes without saying you shouldn't introduce foreign objects in to your engine oil. If those guys put down their beer and pay attention they might get better results.
 

Go-Fly

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I remember this conversation in the garage back in 1974. I'm sure my Grandfather had the same conversation when he worked on his 1938 Chrysler. It really didn't make a difference then or now. The real question is, does a car battery discharge when you set it down on concrete?😁
 

Dalton

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I remember this conversation in the garage back in 1974. I'm sure my Grandfather had the same conversation when he worked on his 1938 Chrysler. It really didn't make a difference then or now. The real question is, does a car battery discharge when you set it down on concrete?😁
waiting for the answers to this one.....been in a few shops where I saw a battery sitting on a small 2x4...not a believer that it discharges...but wondering
 

lbhsbz

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If you're worried about any pressure delay kill the ignition, give the engine two or five 15 seconds cranking and the pressure should come up. I only do this if an engine has set for a while before the filter change...Adding a "Slick 50" type additive is good insurance against "dry" starts....
Ray
I would caution against using anything except for the specified type of oil on any modern engine...no additives ever.
 

adam909

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some oil filters i believe cat and fleetguard say on there filters to not prefill.. I always add oil. fuel filters i never pre fill..
 

rivermobster

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Let's use some common sense here kids...

Ever get engine oil on your hands? Of course you have.

Does it come right off? Is it easy to clean up when you spill it? Fuck no! lol

It sticks to everything. It's a mess. It's the exact same way inside your engine. It's stuck to everything in there. There is no such thing as a "dry start"!!

Like @lbhsbz said. It's not going to hurt anything to prefill an oil filter, but it's not going to make your engine last any longer either.

Ever see how much oil comes out, and how fast, when you forget to put the filter back on?? Try it sometime. You'll realize Real quick how fast that filter fills up with oil. Ask me how I know...

:rolleyes::mad:
 

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Questions here. What part of the filter does the incoming pressure enter? Center or outer? Is the filter part of path of travel for the oil system or is it a bypass that maybe gets 10% of the oil flow?
 

QC22

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Questions here. What part of the filter does the incoming pressure enter? Center or outer? Is the filter part of path of travel for the oil system or is it a bypass that maybe gets 10% of the oil flow?
Filter gets 100% of the flow and the inside is the clean side. Some engines have the clogged filter bypass in the filter, and some have the bypass as part of the oil pump. The bypass should only happen when the filter is significantly clogged.
 

jones performance

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getting contaminents in em while installing?? if theres a bunch of dirt and other shit to fall into the filter when installing what the fuck is the difference if its got oil in or not? the shits gonna fall into the filter regardless..
 

QC22

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The worst thing is crappy threads on a filter. Any debris ends up on the clean side. I always check that area and carefully pull any left over thread material up and out. Years ago I actually cut open new filters as part of my job to sell genuine CAT. Fram was the worst. Crappy materials and build quality and dirty threads every time.
 

lbhsbz

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I only store camshafts vertically so they don’t bend.
I've been in the brake parts industry for the last 18 years....I get folks asking all the time "so...brake rotor shouldn't be stored on edge because they'll warp...right?"....

Me: do you park your car on it's side when you get home at night so the rotors are stored horizontally overnight?
 

Carlson-jet

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I once found 20 bucks on a side walk. I'm not a firm believer that sidewalks grow money.
Back to fill or not to fill.
 

lbhsbz

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There was probably a money tree in the parkway that started dropping it's bills...one of which you found. Has nothing to do with oil....try and stay on topic
 

Carlson-jet

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There was probably a money tree in the parkway that started dropping it's bills...one of which you found. Has nothing to do with oil....try and stay on topic
I did look around but did not see much. I closed my eyes and I could hear faint music. Something about unrest in the forest and trouble with the trees. :)
 

lbhsbz

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I did look around but did not see much. I closed my eyes and I could hear faint music. Something about unrest in the forest and trouble with the trees. :)
I should know this one...
 

FreeBird236

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You always put batteries on wood so it don't eat the concrete.:D
 

pronstar

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welldigger00

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Ok, so now that this has gone off the rails, how a out engine oils life? I am the son of a general contractor, and my dad had a fleet of 10 plus trucks, dozers, backhoes, blades, you name it. I was always told oil dumped at 3000k miles, or 250 hrs. I’ve kept that same philosophy in my own fleet. When I read the book on what a new Cummins ISX calls for, I said no f’ing way. Light duty like 25k miles on engine oil change. Now I know it’s like 12 gallons or something, but still. I dump the oil in my boat at least four times a season, and do a filter cut upon every oil change. I like keeping track of shit before I have a major problem.


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Ok, so now that this has gone off the rails, how a out engine oils life? I am the son of a general contractor, and my dad had a fleet of 10 plus trucks, dozers, backhoes, blades, you name it. I was always told oil dumped at 3000k miles, or 250 hrs. I’ve kept that same philosophy in my own fleet. When I read the book on what a new Cummins ISX calls for, I said no f’ing way. Light duty like 25k miles on engine oil change. Now I know it’s like 12 gallons or something, but still. I dump the oil in my boat at least four times a season, and do a filter cut upon every oil change. I like keeping track of shit before I have a major problem.


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On 7.3s I change the oil every 5k miles. On the air cooled equipment I'll change it 25 to 50 hours of use or when the oil starts to turn brown. I don't believe in the long life oil because oil is a cleaner as well as a lubricant. I know you can change the filters (pre oil before install) to catch the debris but what about the unburnt fuel that gets into the oil?
 

welldigger00

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On 7.3s I change the oil every 5k miles. On the air cooled equipment I'll change it 25 to 50 hours of use or when the oil starts to turn brown. I don't believe in the long life oil because oil is a cleaner as well as a lubricant. I know you can change the filters (pre oil before install) to catch the debris but what about the unburnt fuel that gets into the oil?
This is the main reason I change the oil in my boat so much. Under hard boost for long weekends, the oil turns black with fuel pretty quickly.


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LargeOrangeFont

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Ok, so now that this has gone off the rails, how a out engine oils life? I am the son of a general contractor, and my dad had a fleet of 10 plus trucks, dozers, backhoes, blades, you name it. I was always told oil dumped at 3000k miles, or 250 hrs. I’ve kept that same philosophy in my own fleet. When I read the book on what a new Cummins ISX calls for, I said no f’ing way. Light duty like 25k miles on engine oil change. Now I know it’s like 12 gallons or something, but still. I dump the oil in my boat at least four times a season, and do a filter cut upon every oil change. I like keeping track of shit before I have a major problem.


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Oil is cheap insurance (well maybe not 12 gallons of it LOL) I wouldn’t run it that long.

I change oil at 5k on my fleet, regardless of what the computer says. Generally the computer says it is at 45-50% when I change it.

Race car I change every 8-10 hours, boat and RZR about 50 hours.
 

Uncle Dave

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Jim Fitch from machinery lubrication magazine does not support filling a filter from any unfiltered source - new in bottle or not, and especially not from a metal barrel.

IF one peruses BITOG you can find all kinds of threads and picts of what people find on the bottom of new oil containers.

IF you pre filter it - sure go for it-
If not dont do it and dont worry about it. there is always oil left in an engine after a sump drain - sometimes as much as 20%.

UD
 
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