F150 power boost hybrid

[riverroyal]

So im ordering a truck new week.
The power boost is hybrid of sorts.
More Hp, more torque than the 3.5 eco boost.
Roughly 5mpg better
900 more in cost
Im gonna do it. Take just over a year to break even
But 700 miles per tank, 0-60 in the 5's.

I get the report on how it drives friday. All ive heard so far is the brakes feel different. Other than that its great.

The F350 i was considering doesnt make any sense, cost yearly is ridiculous.

8-10 week build.

 

[Taboma]

The specs sound impressive --- great marketing. But how's about in real life usage conditions. You've got a 1.5KW Lit-Ion batt and a 35KW electric motor, just seems this boost is going to be short lived and in need of a re-charge often. Especially towing, or up grades --- trust me, this is the first I've heard of or read anything about this truck, so I'm no authority, not even a little. Just seems under real truck conditions, they hybrid aspect may be only rarely an aid, unless you're just crusin on a level road, at modest speed, like when the displacement on demand engines revert to 4 cyl from 8.

 

[LazyLavey]

interesting

 

[riverroyal]

For us its a havasu commuter with some around town on weekends
Towing will consist of the gas station for the boat and MAYBE a powell trip for a long tow.
This will not be a purchase as a true tow type truck.
I believe the idea on this is to help the 3.5 eco boost. Give it some love around slow parking lots and assisting other than that. Its not really electric or gas, its both at the same time
The battery is small and there is no cord to charge.
Also NO hybrid badges!
For the added cost im going to do it.
Also, i lease. Have for over a decade. In 3 years it will be gone, so any high milage issues i wont see.
It will also het my current 35" tires on 20" methods
So true stock milage will only be seen for about a week once it arrives

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The mileage claim will be a lie.. other than that go for it, the ‘21s look bad ass.

I can pull down an actual 600 highway miles per tank at 80 MPH with my 3.5.

If it is using the electric motor to get the truck off the line, it will help mileage a bit.

 

[McKay]

I get 650 miles already out of my 3.5HO.

 

[Bigbore500r]

The mileage claim will be a lie.. other than that go for it, the ‘21s look bad ass.

I can pull down an actual 600 highway miles per tank at 80 MPH with my 3.5.

If it is using the electric motor to get the truck off the line, it will help mileage a bit.

If it's similar to Rams E-torque, the numbers on paper look great, but don't materialize in real world testing / driving.

1.5KW isn't much of a battery and 35KW isn't alot of energy for a truck that size. To put it in perspective, a Chevy volt has a 10 KW battery and a maximum draw of around 100 KWH when floored under max load.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

If it's similar to Rams E-torque, the numbers on paper look great, but don't materialize in real world testing / driving.

1.5KW isn't much of a battery and 35KW isn't alot of energy for a truck that size. To put it in perspective, a Chevy volt has a 10 KW battery and a maximum draw of around 100 KWH when floored under max load.

Agreed. Its a marketing thing more than anything.

 

[riverroyal]

Im still doing it.....dont try and talk me out of being the 1st one doing it

 

[rightytighty]

Does that have to 7500 W inverter w power ports in the bed? If so, that’s a pretty bad ass perk for contractors on job sites or homeowners during power outages.

 

[PlumLoco]

I always thought this would be a great idea for camping and work. Never saw one available.
https://www.businessfleet.com/8655/...al-hybrid-pickup-is-also-a-portable-generator

 

[riverroyal]

Does that have to 7500 W inverter w power ports in the bed? If so, that’s a pretty bad ass perk for contractors on job sites or homeowners during power outages.

yes. with 220 if ordered.

 

[mjc]

yes. with 220 if ordered.

You need that for power outages.

 

[riverroyal]

Would be pretty nice to plug the house into the truck and let it idle

 

[Dalton]

I always thought this would be a great idea for camping and work. Never saw one available.
https://www.businessfleet.com/8655/...al-hybrid-pickup-is-also-a-portable-generator

Didn’t know dodge still offered a v10


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[Desert Whaler]

Please report back after you get some mileage / performance numbers. Will be curious to see how it works out.

 

[Chili Palmer]

I always thought this would be a great idea for camping and work. Never saw one available.
https://www.businessfleet.com/8655/...al-hybrid-pickup-is-also-a-portable-generator

I thought Daimler sold their portion and Fiat bought Chrysler 10 years ago. How old is this story?

Edit: it’s a 10 year old news flash.

 

[boatpi]

If you have not driven it yet, and have not ordered, try the RAM 1500 diesel, I love mine at 30 MPG at 72+ MPG, about 475 Ft LG torque. The Limited is crazy luxury.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

You’re leasing it it , so that’s ok . Ford seems to use paying customers as their beta testers . A lot of customers in the past have paid for Fords ineptness .

 

[Sleek-Jet]

So im ordering a truck new week.
The power boost is hybrid of sorts.
More Hp, more torque than the 3.5 eco boost.
Roughly 5mpg better
900 more in cost
Im gonna do it. Take just over a year to break even
But 700 miles per tank, 0-60 in the 5's.

I get the report on how it drives friday. All ive heard so far is the brakes feel different. Other than that its great.

The F350 i was considering doesnt make any sense, cost yearly is ridiculous.

8-10 week build.

Ford's hybrids use regen braking. You are working against the generator to help stop. If that isn't enough you begin to use the service brakes. If it is anything like their cars it can a feel a bit grabby until you get the hang of it.

 

[bocco]

I thought Daimler sold their portion and Fiat bought Chrysler 10 years ago. How old is this story?

Edit: it’s a 10 year old news flash.

It's 20 years old. Check the date.

 

[Xtrmwakeboarder]

Some pretty good numbers when it's not towing.

 

[pronstar]

They get CAFE credits for being a hybrid, regardless of the actual improvement in efficiency.

I bet it gives better results than Ram’s e-torque. It’s engineered more like the hybrid systems of cars.

E-torque uses a belt on the crank and is basically a joke.


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[2Driver]

The epa sure has manufacturers complicating the shit out of trucks.

 

[Taboma]

Ford's hybrids use regen braking. You are working against the generator to help stop. If that isn't enough you begin to use the service brakes. If it is anything like their cars it can a feel a bit grabby until you get the hang of it.

Curious, asking since I know about zero when it comes to hybrids or EV's. When I'm following certain cars, especially hybrids, it seems they're brake lights are being frequently illuminate. Thusly, this causes cars in their immediate vicinity, namely close behind them, to overreact and apply their brakes, as does the car behind them, so on and so forth. In many cases, this action and resulting reaction(s) can screw up the traffic flow big time.
So my question is this --- when a vehicle decelerates and regeneration initiated, do the brake lights come on ??
Or are these just typical fuck-head drivers who are either on the gas or on the brakes ??

 

[Rajobigguy]

Personally I think it’s great idea. Adding a mild electric boost to minimize turbo-lag at low speed is nothing short of brilliant . The Ford light bulb is glowing bright.

 

[Rajobigguy]

Curious, asking since I know about zero when it comes to hybrids or EV's. When I'm following certain cars, especially hybrids, it seems they're brake lights are being frequently illuminate. Thusly, this causes cars in their immediate vicinity, namely close behind them, to overreact and apply their brakes, as does the car behind them, so on and so forth. In many cases, this action and resulting reaction(s) can screw up the traffic flow big time.
So my question is this --- when a vehicle decelerates and regeneration initiated, do the brake lights come on ??
Or are these just typical fuck-head drivers who are either on the gas or on the brakes ??

Bad driver.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Curious, asking since I know about zero when it comes to hybrids or EV's. When I'm following certain cars, especially hybrids, it seems they're brake lights are being frequently illuminate. Thusly, this causes cars in their immediate vicinity, namely close behind them, to overreact and apply their brakes, as does the car behind them, so on and so forth. In many cases, this action and resulting reaction(s) can screw up the traffic flow big time.
So my question is this --- when a vehicle decelerates and regeneration initiated, do the brake lights come on ??
Or are these just typical fuck-head drivers who are either on the gas or on the brakes ??

The latter. They are idiots. The brake lights don’t go on when you let off the gas and go into regen.

 

[Taboma]

Bad driver.

So Prius and other hybrids and or EVs brake lights don't illuminate when they simply back up and decelerate ? They only illuminate if they are actually on the brakes ?

I ask because in various articles I've read about EVs, they claim the regen is so strong it eliminates much of the need for using the brakes.

Ok then, I won't feel guilty when I pull past, proudly displaying a one finger salute

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

So Prius and other hybrids and or EVs brake lights don't illuminate when they simply back up and decelerate ? They only illuminate if they are actually on the brakes ?

I ask because in various articles I've read about EVs, they claim the regen is so strong it eliminates much of the need for using the brakes.

Ok then, I won't feel guilty when I pull past, proudly displaying a one finger salute

Think of it like engine braking in a lower gear than needed. It does not feel like you are hitting the brakes hard, but dragging them. At least that is the experience I’ve had when driving them.

 

[Taboma]

Think of it like engine braking in a lower gear than needed. It does not feel like you are hitting the brakes hard, but dragging them. At least that is the experience I’ve had when driving them.

Having never driven one, I wasn't sure how they reacted during decel. Well then, Damn, there's even more fucked up drivers than I suspected
So to them the throttle is the ON button and the brake pedal the OFF button --- got it.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

AFAIK, the brake lights are still hooked up to the brake pedal.

 

[hallett21]

Having never driven one, I wasn't sure how they reacted during decel. Well then, Damn, there's even more fucked up drivers than I suspected
So to them the throttle is the ON button and the brake pedal the OFF button --- got it.

You don’t drive with one foot on the brake and the other on the accelerator?


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[pronstar]

Cars with very strong regen, like a Tesla which can literally be driven with one pedal, will activate the brake lights depending on regen settings.

Most hybrids don’t regen so strongly, and I’m not aware of one that activates the brake lights.


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[hallett21]

Cars with very strong regen, like a Tesla which can literally be driven with one pedal, will activate the brake lights depending on regen settings.

Most hybrids don’t regen so strongly, and I’m not aware of one that activates the brake lights.


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Dumb question but does the regen really capture more energy vs letting the car coast?


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[McKay]

Dumb question but does the regen really capture more energy vs letting the car coast?


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yes

 

[Hernando]

So im ordering a truck new week.
The power boost is hybrid of sorts.
More Hp, more torque than the 3.5 eco boost.
Roughly 5mpg better
900 more in cost
Im gonna do it. Take just over a year to break even
But 700 miles per tank, 0-60 in the 5's.

I get the report on how it drives friday. All ive heard so far is the brakes feel different. Other than that its great.

The F350 i was considering doesnt make any sense, cost yearly is ridiculous.

8-10 week build.

I drove it on Tuesday in Fontana. It has tons of power, super smooth, and is an amazing truck. There is zero lag, the additional 70 ft.bs. of torque over the regular 3.5L Eco-boost is very noticeable. It uses the same 10- speed trans that been out for years now. MPG should come out at 24 when the truck lands.

I did a 0-60 drag in it, then the Dodge with their mild hybrid Hemi, and Chevy 6 liter V8. It SMOKED the Dodge and beat the Chevy. We then did the same with a 5,500 lbs. trailer, with the same results.

With regards to the towing, the Dodge was by far the worst. I normally don't bash, but I couldn't believe what a hunk of junk the Dodge is. Now I know why they have to give them away...The Chevy was a nice truck, and had a ton of power. That 6 liter is pretty bad ass!

Get the Pro Power pack! It's a game changer for sure. Even if you don't use on a job site, if you go camping or tailgating, you've got power! They had a demo with the 2K Power pack, and they were running a TV and Blender. The truck has built in WIFI, so you can be tailgating , power up a Smart TV, use the WIFI on the truck to stream wherever you want to watch, and mix up a margarita.

The interior is next level for sure. I would challenge anyone to sit in any other half ton and not say the F150 has the nicest interior of the bunch. Ford really stepped up their game. The SYNC 4 info system is crystal clear, blazing fast, and super easy to use.

Congrats on the new rig, you're going to love it.

 

[pronstar]

Dumb question but does the regen really capture more energy vs letting the car coast?


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Two different scenarios so can’t really compare apples to apples.

Think of it this way:

Kinetic energy is due to motion.

Coasting captures zero energy...all of the car’s kinetic energy is preserved by keeping the car in motion.

Regen converts that kinetic energy into electricity that goes back into the battery, and this slows the car (because it’s “losing” kinetic energy”.

So depending on the situation, you may want to just coast if you don’t need to slow the car; or you need to slow the car which converts that motion energy into electricity.

And regen is always more efficient than friction braking, because all of that kinetic energy is just being dissipated/wasted as heat by the braking system.

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[Taboma]

I drove it on Tuesday in Fontana. It has tons of power, super smooth, and is an amazing truck. There is zero lag, the additional 70 ft.bs. of torque over the regular 3.5L Eco-boost is very noticeable. It uses the same 10- speed trans that been out for years now. MPG should come out at 24 when the truck lands.

I did a 0-60 drag in it, then the Dodge with their mild hybrid Hemi, and Chevy 6 liter V8. It SMOKED the Dodge and beat the Chevy. We then did the same with a 5,500 lbs. trailer, with the same results.

With regards to the towing, the Dodge was by far the worst. I normally don't bash, but I couldn't believe what a hunk of junk the Dodge is. Now I know why they have to give them away...The Chevy was a nice truck, and had a ton of power. That 6 liter is pretty bad ass!

Get the Pro Power pack! It's a game changer for sure. Even if you don't use on a job site, if you go camping or tailgating, you've got power! They had a demo with the 2K Power pack, and they were running a TV and Blender. The truck has built in WIFI, so you can be tailgating , power up a Smart TV, use the WIFI on the truck to stream wherever you want to watch, and mix up a margarita.

The interior is next level for sure. I would challenge anyone to sit in any other half ton and not say the F150 has the nicest interior of the bunch. Ford really stepped up their game. The SYNC 4 info system is crystal clear, blazing fast, and super easy to use.

Congrats on the new rig, you're going to love it.

Since you seem well schooled on this, with a 35KW motor and a 1.5KW battery, how long is this extra torque available ? In other words, sure, pulling a large boat up a ramp or short steep incline, or drag racing or getting a heavy trailer moving. But what if you're climbing a long steep grade, I'd think you'd deplete that 1.5KW battery pretty quickly and be right back on the gas engine, with the generator using power in an attempt to recharge. It's not a self-perpetuating power source, it takes gas engine energy to be stored to have the electric available.

 

[Taboma]

Two different scenarios so can’t really compare apples to apples.

Think of it this way:

Kinetic energy is due to motion.

Coasting captures zero energy...all of the car’s kinetic energy is preserved by keeping the car in motion.

Regen converts that kinetic energy into electricity that goes back into the battery, and this slows the car (because it’s “losing” kinetic energy”.

So depending on the situation, you may want to just coast if you don’t need to slow the car; or you need to slow the car which converts that motion energy into electricity.

And regen is always more efficient than friction braking, because all of that kinetic energy is just being dissipated/wasted as heat by the braking system.

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How do these cars with regen know when you want to coast vs when you want more braking deceleration ?

 

[Hernando]

Since you seem well schooled on this, with a 35KW motor and a 1.5KW battery, how long is this extra torque available ? In other words, sure, pulling a large boat up a ramp or short steep incline, or drag racing or getting a heavy trailer moving. But what if you're climbing a long steep grade, I'd think you'd deplete that 1.5KW battery pretty quickly and be right back on the gas engine, with the generator using power in an attempt to recharge. It's not a self-perpetuating power source, it takes gas engine energy to be stored to have the electric available.

Too many variables ( some of which you've outlined above) come into play to say exactly how long you're using the electric motor exclusively, it would be a case by case basis. Under the right circumstances, the truck has the ability to be driven by electric motor only. In most cases, both will be running. As mentioned by another, the gas engine doesn't recharge the battery alone, regen braking is extremely efficient in recharging as well.

The hybrid motor is a compliment to the gas engine, gives you more power, and you pick up a few MPGs. As Pronstar noted, the manufactures are being squeezed to meet the CAFE standards, and this is a start in that direction. This is Ford's first step into the Hybrid truck market. They want to bring a truck to the market that not only was a Hybrid, but didn't sacrifice it's capability. 430 hp. 570 ft. lbs. of torque, ,12,000 lbs. towing capacity, 24 MPG, an onboard 2.4 kW invertor is a pretty good start...

 

[pronstar]

How do these cars with regen know when you want to coast vs when you want more braking deceleration ?

You modulate it with either the throttle, or the regen setting.

Let’s say tryouts have a Tesla set to max regen, so you’re driving with one pedal.

Depress the pedal, the car accelerates.
Foot off the pedal, the car decelerates.
But there’s a point midway in-between on the pedal, where you aren’t asking for acceleration or deceleration...the car is coasting in this situation.

Porsche EV’s, as I understand it, have a “sailing” mode that lets the car coast. This seems weird to me, as it’s easier to just modulate it with the throttle pedal without having to change drive modes.


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[pronstar]

Too many variables ( some of which you've outlined above) come into play to say exactly how long you're using the electric motor exclusively, it would be a case by case basis. Under the right circumstances, the truck has the ability to be driven by electric motor only. In most cases, both will be running. As mentioned by another, the gas engine doesn't recharge the battery alone, regen braking is extremely efficient in recharging as well.

The hybrid motor is a compliment to the gas engine, gives you more power, and you pick up a few MPGs. As Pronstar noted, the manufactures are being squeezed to meet the CAFE standards, and this is a start in that direction. T

That’s exactly right.

The net-net is, for sustained power output, you’re gonna be using the gasoline engine and not EV power.

Unlike hybrid like the Prius or Volt, which have tiny gas engines, you’re still left with the segment-leading performance of the ecoboost engine in the F150 hybrid.


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[Taboma]

You modulate it with either the throttle, or the regen setting.

Let’s say tryouts have a Tesla set to max regen, so you’re driving with one pedal.

Depress the pedal, the car accelerates.
Foot off the pedal, the car decelerates.
But there’s a point midway in-between on the pedal, where you aren’t asking for acceleration or deceleration...the car is coasting in this situation.

Porsche EV’s, as I understand it, have a “sailing” mode that lets the car coast. This seems weird to me, as it’s easier to just modulate it with the throttle pedal without having to change drive modes.


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Yes, I'd prefer to learn to modulate the throttle to achieve coast vs regen, rather than being distracted by a change of modes as driving conditions prefer one over the other.
Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[Rajobigguy]

All I can say is if it turns out to be as good as all the reports are then I'm going to want one.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

I'm looking at it now too. Seems costly on the dot I built ourlt the other day though with the big inverter. Need to take another look.

 

[Uncle Dave]

How do these cars with regen know when you want to coast vs when you want more braking deceleration ?

Hybrid combustion vehicles with trans or CVT's can typically generate about .3 of a G in deceleration using re-gen only, or fairly light braking.

The toyota system does it 2 ways - most ICE hybrids have copied toyota.

1. through a 2 stage brake - a very light push will begin regeneration and "trade kinetic energy vs momentum" and when you need more braking you push through this to the mechanicals. This system is always active.

2. through a dedicated mode one shifts to like the " B" mode" this begins the regeneration each time the throttle is fully lifted. This doenst work too well in close traffic but on long downhills. My hybrid lexus has a "B" setting on the shifter to prioritize engine braking & regen vs coasting. Its kind of weird to hear the engine rev up and the " tach" (it isnt really that) swing down.

BEV vehicles do regeneration way better with selectable regeneration strength on partial or full throttle lift. With no fluid coupled trans in the way the effect is much more pronounced and immediate making one foot driving very easy intuitive and simple.

 

[Uncle Dave]

On the truck as a genset thing....Im intrigued, but have a bunch of questions maybe someone can answer.

When putting out max power is the truck idling or running at a higher RPM and if so what controls this?

According to Fords cop car research idling is the equivalent to driving 33 MPH.

Thats 1320 miles a week in genset use for a 40 hour week on a construction site.

Additionally we know that direct injection engines tend to load the oil up with fuel when idled excessively or run at low speed for extended periods of time requiring an oil change at a far shorter interval than when run on the highway for a long trip.

Between the hourly run time component and the fuel/ oil fouling has the Oil life monitor been recalibrated to deal with these vagaries?

 

[Taboma]

On the truck as a genset thing....Im intrigued, but have a bunch of questions maybe someone can answer.

When putting out max power is the truck idling or running at a higher RPM and if so what controls this?

According to Fords cop car research idling is the equivalent to driving 33 MPH.

Thats 1320 miles a week in genset use for a 40 hour week on a construction site.

Additionally we know that direct injection engines tend to load the oil up with fuel when idled excessively or run at low speed for extended periods of time requiring an oil change at a far shorter interval than when run on the highway for a long trip.

Between the hourly run time component and the fuel/ oil fouling has the Oil life monitor been recalibrated to deal with these vagaries?

Excellent questions.
If I owned one, I'd consider either inverter size as an occasional or emergency backup power supply only. If you need 7.5KW on a job site or as an emergency generator for seasonal power outages (Versus rare unplanned outages) certainly there's better options than running close to 400 hp to generate power obtainable from 10 hp.

The irony is, on one hand you've got Ford striving for improved CAFE numbers by adding a Stop-Start feature I'm forced to disable with every start in my Raptor for shit's sake, to avoid idling at traffic lights, yet promoting power generation using their idling engine.
Also if I understand correctly, depending on generator load, the engine will recharge the battery while it's supplying generator output, so the engine will start and stop itself as needed to maintain the output while in use. Of course with only a 1.5KW storage capacity, that's a lot of stopping and starting, if you're using 4-7 KW.

I only see this option viable for occasional use, but I'm not going to use one to keep my refrigerator running during even an all day power outage when I can easily roll out the trusty Honda. Might be handy if you want to take along a Microwave oven to a picnic, to warm up your food though

 

[Uncle Dave]

On the upside start stop becomes seamless when you can still run the AC and all accessories like my Lexus. There is in a sense no penalty when implemented this way.

I had a rental malibu with this " feature" and it sucked losing the compressor and fans all the time- I see why you'd hate it.

Hopefully the new Fords battery allows this type of functionality.

Id guess a genset powered through a catalytic converter would be cleaner than any standard unit?