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Fabrication/engineering advice - ski pylon

XX14

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I have a 2005 Nordic Rage. I love the fact that it runs reasonably fast but the truth is it's primarily a ski, tube, wakeboard boat for my five kids. Every once in a while I kick them out and head for 5250. I spoke with mike at Nordic and he thinks Dana Marine used to make some type of kit to facilitate this function. I'm in San Antonio so I probably won't be hauling the boat to the desert southwest to make this happen but I may be able to provide enough pics and measurements to allow for off-site fab?

The original ski pylon is ok but it's not made to sling around four kids on a tube or the rigors of slalom and wake boarding. I've looked for solutions to work with the original pylon but neither the engineering nor space behind the motor reveal a viable solution. Soooo...

I'm doing research and I'm pretty much sold on putting a freestanding, removable ski pylon about 8" in front of the rear seat. I've seen this done with boats with outboard motors and the installation can be made very clean and the pole stows away when not in use. This will require opening up the floor to access the stringers and rigging that will bolt through the stringers along with bracing and will have a sleeve that rises to the floor level and allows for a pylon to slide down through the floor and screw into the sub- floor mount. I'm also hoping to rig a functioning, small table using the same mount.

I'm not considering a tower. It's just not my thing and I'm not interested in corrupting the lines of my boat. So I need someone that can engineer/fabricate the rigging. I can do the install. I've been planning on replacing the carpet so this will all work together.

Sorry for the looong read... Any recommendations?
 

ka0tyk

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so the one on the motor isnt good enough? is it not high enough? maybe a little longer/higher to get it where you want? id imagine a solid billet bar would be plenty strong at 3-4' long... plus mounted to the motor is gonna be strong and it minimizes any cutting of floor, etc.

00h0h_4XkrHY6ePaA_600x450.jpg


my only concern about putting a pole in front of the back seat is the potential to constantly clothesline anyone sitting back there...

ie: this one is pretty tall...

2012-06-15_20-13-08_1151.jpg


this 05 nordic rage has the ski pole...

Nordic-Rage-005-1024x683.jpg
 

RiverDave

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I have a 2005 Nordic Rage. I love the fact that it runs reasonably fast but the truth is it's primarily a ski, tube, wakeboard boat for my five kids. Every once in a while I kick them out and head for 5250. I spoke with mike at Nordic and he thinks Dana Marine used to make some type of kit to facilitate this function. I'm in San Antonio so I probably won't be hauling the boat to the desert southwest to make this happen but I may be able to provide enough pics and measurements to allow for off-site fab?

The original ski pylon is ok but it's not made to sling around four kids on a tube or the rigors of slalom and wake boarding. I've looked for solutions to work with the original pylon but neither the engineering nor space behind the motor reveal a viable solution. Soooo...

I'm doing research and I'm pretty much sold on putting a freestanding, removable ski pylon about 8" in front of the rear seat. I've seen this done with boats with outboard motors and the installation can be made very clean and the pole stows away when not in use. This will require opening up the floor to access the stringers and rigging that will bolt through the stringers along with bracing and will have a sleeve that rises to the floor level and allows for a pylon to slide down through the floor and screw into the sub- floor mount. I'm also hoping to rig a functioning, small table using the same mount.

I'm not considering a tower. It's just not my thing and I'm not interested in corrupting the lines of my boat. So I need someone that can engineer/fabricate the rigging. I can do the install. I've been planning on replacing the carpet so this will all work together.

Sorry for the looong read... Any recommendations?

You are talking about very different applications.. For tubing you are going to want something that is built Ford Tough.. The amount of weight / strength required for tubing is off the charts because of shock loading, etc.. For slalom skiing the forces aren't quite as much, but again you don't want something that tall, so I don't understand why you would want to go away from the factory one.

Do you want a tall pole just for wakeboarding?

RD
 

LB247XS

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Here's a few pix of mine that I built myself.i use ours pulling the tube and waterskiing.i even towed a 270 Hallett 3 miles out on mead one time with and no problems.i forgot to mention that it's mounted on a 7.4 mpi and our boat is a ULTRA 247XS.

uploadfromtaptalk1409358332794.jpg uploadfromtaptalk1409358348285.jpg uploadfromtaptalk1409358370545.jpg uploadfromtaptalk1409358391290.jpg
 

XX14

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The one that came stock is much more for show than go. There are numerous stress cracks around it from pulling kids on the tube. Doing the work to reinforce that involves pulling the engine. The idea of mounting it through the engine cover is an interesting idea but on the rage there's zero room between the front of the motor and the back of the seat. Look we have five kids and a couple of them are 200 lbs now and we have the four person costco tube. I know the original pylon was not intended for this use and it definitely needs to be sturdy. I used to be a competitive slalom skier and this is essentially a tournament boat setup. In those boats with the center mounted pylon no one sits directly behind the pole in the back seat either. Nobody sits there when we ski now because I have a skiing mirror that I mount so I can see the skier.
 

TX Foilhead

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In my V Drive Nautique the pylon is just behind the back seat like LB247XS's. It's mounted to a frame of 1/4in aluminum that is bolted to tabs on the engine cradle and braced to the top of the motor. The actual pylon piece is held to the front of the frame with a couple of 5/8 stainless U bolts. It may be a bit overkill, but you would have to pull the motor out of the back of the boat to break it. :cool
 

TX Foilhead

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I've mounted an extended pylon in the are you're thinking about and it was rock solid, but it had braces to the rear corners of the boat and a cable to the bow. Any pylon mounted to floor is going to need braces or an attachment to the strivers like a direct drive ski boat.
 

XX14

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If I do it through the floor the rigging will be concealed under the floor and through bolted in the stringers. It has to be engineered to take the stresses and be a clean set up or I won't do it. I like the engine mount idea but I'm just not sure the room exists in and around the engine area. I'll talk to mike at Nordic to see if he thinks that's doable.

Thanks everyone one for the input. Does anyone know anything about Marine West that is doing Dana Marine's work now?
 

XX14

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You are talking about very different applications.. For tubing you are going to want something that is built Ford Tough.. The amount of weight / strength required for tubing is off the charts because of shock loading, etc.. For slalom skiing the forces aren't quite as much, but again you don't want something that tall, so I don't understand why you would want to go away from the factory one.

Do you want a tall pole just for wakeboarding?

RD



This would be multi-functional for skiing,tubing, and wake boarding. It would only be as tall as needed to clear the rear engine hatch. I know my boats not a wakeboard but and I'm not trying to do a tower/skylon kind of a deal. I don't want it so tall that it makes slalom skiing weird.
 

Crazyhippy

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Could you move the back seat 3-4" forward and go in front of the motor?

Down to the stringers, tie into the motor up high for strength.
 

XX14

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That's a good idea too but that would necessitate redesigning the hatch and the gunwales are molded to fit the current location.
 

Marine Industries West

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I've done quite a few of these. Every application is unique mainly due to the boat and the desired pole height. It's gonna be pretty tough to buy something over the phone. Not impossible, but it will require you to provide some pretty good dimensions. We built the normal ski poles for Nordic, but I'm not familiar with the receptacle that is currently in your boat. Once I know that information, and how tall you want this pole to be, I can probably help you out. Some pics of your ride would be a good start. Here's the last one I did on this monster MTI. I had one day to build and install it. The boat made it's way from Florida to Cali 5 days before the Catalina ski race. They wanted the skier in the water practicing 2 days after the boat arrived here. Sorry for the poor quality photos, it was about 1 am by the time it was finished.
 

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XX14

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Ok. Are you with Marine West? I'll find some pics to post. Is it reasonable to do the single pole braced below on the stringers for my application? I really don't want to do those support arms.

The original set up's flaw is not the pylon itself it's the flimsy mounting behind the motor.
 

Marine Industries West

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Everything depends on how tall you want the pole. A rule of thumb, I say this loosely, because it can vary, in an application with no support arms, the ski pole should not be any more than about 80 percent exposed compared to what is braced. So if you're receiver tube is 24" long, the over all pole length should only be about 44". 24" braced and 20" exposed. That of course is making an assumption that the braced section is strong as hell. I've seen people come up with some real creative brackets and bracing methods. I've also seen some shit that straight up pisses me off that people are so reckless with some pretty shoddy mounts that are scary to say the least. As previously stated, every application is unique. The most important thing to consider is safety. If it cannot be done properly, don't do it at all. It surprises me that your stock ski pole has a flimsy mount. I would expect Nordic, from their ski racing roots, to have a very strong mount for the pole. With the tension and stretch on the rope, the last thing you want is something breaking off and being shot at your skier. It would be like a bullet coming back at them.
 

XX14

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Thanks for this. My plan may not work given those numbers. I thought this was possible based some of the freestanding poles I've seen in outboard applications. I think in the area I'm looking at there's a max of 18" from the floor to the bottom of the v. Mike also thought it would work with the correct rigging accessing both stringers and proper bracing. You're spot on about the safety aspect though. There's no danger of the current pylon coming out it's just not at all designed for the lateral loads of a tube. The fiberglass behind the engine hatch is part of the support and again just never designed for my use. Hmmm...
 

Mandelon

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BT-AIR225BASE-PA-2T.jpg



Some of the wake towers come apart with some fairly quick connectors. Leave the tower on for family times, and take apart when they aren't coming along...
 

Marine Industries West

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There's several ways to skin the cat. From my experience, the info I have provided is how I would l go about fabricating a pole system. On the outboard deals, what you see as a free standing pole has to be supported. So, it's like the tip of the iceberg you're seeing. The rest of the pole and the mounts are under the surface.
 

Racer56

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The transom mount setup that Howard uses looks extremely well engineered and makes for a really clean setup. Who makes it?
 

Marine Industries West

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Dana Marine makes that, we call it a gimbal mount kit. It was specifically designed for Howard's 25. It might fit others, but most likely not many other boats. We also built a similar system for the Ultra 26 deck. Lots of stuff can be done, but the pole length is very limited on these gimbal mount pole kits. It wouldn't be anymore than what he currently has on his Nordic.
 

Cheetah98

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Here's a few pix of mine that I built myself.i use ours pulling the tube and waterskiing.i even towed a 270 Hallett 3 miles out on mead one time with and no problems.i forgot to mention that it's mounted on a 7.4 mpi and our boat is a ULTRA 247XS.

View attachment 363075 View attachment 363076 View attachment 363077 View attachment 363078
Good afternoon, I was wondering if you still have this ski mount for the 7.4 or do you have the specs to build another one. That mount is nice and clean.
Thanks
 

LB247XS

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Good afternoon, I was wondering if you still have this ski mount for the 7.4 or do you have the specs to build another one. That mount is nice and clean.
Thanks
Mine was a one-off build I don't have the specs written down but yes I still have the boat and it's still currently mounted in the boat and used to this day if you're local you can come by and check it out or I can try and give you some measurements.
Me and a buddy of mine at my work who is a fabricator we kind of just designed and built it as we went he machined everything from raw billet.
 

Cheetah98

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Here's a few pix of mine that I built myself.i use ours pulling the tube and waterskiing.i even towed a 270 Hallett 3 miles out on mead one time with and no problems.i forgot to mention that it's mounted on a 7.4 mpi and our boat is a ULTRA 247XS.

View attachment 363075 View attachment 363076 View attachment 363077 View attachment 363078
Good afternoon, I was wondering if you still have this ski mount for the 7.4 or do you have the specs to build another one. That mount is nice and clean.
Thanks
Thank you for getting back to me. Im in Peoria, AZ. Where are you located? Yes, could you get me some measurements, close up pics of how it mounts/bolts too. Did you guys make the pole too? and the ring for the top of you engine cover? I deal with a few fab shop here in town, I can see if they can make one up for me.
 

LB247XS

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Good afternoon, I was wondering if you still have this ski mount for the 7.4 or do you have the specs to build another one. That mount is nice and clean.
Thanks
I can ask my buddy when he gets his shop reset up if he'd be interested in building another one but I don't know what costs would be
Thank you for getting back to me. Im in Peoria, AZ. Where are you located? Yes, could you get me some measurements, close up pics of how it mounts/bolts too. Did you guys make the pole too? and the ring for the top of you engine cover? I deal with a few fab shop here in town, I can see if they can make one up for me.
I'm in Long Beach CA. We made everything. We spun the pole on the lathe along with the base tube. It was all made from solid round 7071 billet aluminum. The two bolts on the back of base uses the thermostat housing bolt holes and the two front bolts go through a bracket that has rods the go from the bottom of the base plate down to the front of the cylinder heads. I would have to pull the seat out of my boat to show you how I did that and that's kind of a pain in the ass.
The pole has a threaded hole in the base of it which screws down in the base cylinder to a aluminum threaded rod that we put up through the bottom and weld it on the bottom side of the base plate.
The bezel in the engine hatch was bought from Dana Marine products when I built this over 10 years ago. The whole thing was built upon the inside dimension of that bezel
 

LB247XS

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I'll get some pictures with my tape measure and post them to you tomorrow but I'm not going to pull the seat out of my boat it's too much of a pain to show you that front bracketry and I forgot to mention that underneath the base plate for the thermostat housing bolts I had to put some aluminum spacers for the bolts to go through to get it up off the thermostat housing
 

Shlbyntro

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Good afternoon, I was wondering if you still have this ski mount for the 7.4 or do you have the specs to build another one. That mount is nice and clean.
Thanks

I might still have mine that I removed from my 247. pm me your contact info and ill see if I can find it in my storage
 

Cheetah98

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Thank you for getting back to me. Im in Peoria, AZ. Where are you located? Yes, could you get me some measurements, close up pics of how it mounts/bolts too. Did you guys make the pole too? and the ring for the top of you engine cover? I deal with a few fab shop here in town, I can see if they can make one up for me.
I might still have mine that I removed from my 247. pm me your contact info and ill see if I can find it in my storage
That would be awesome ... Thank you
I can ask my buddy when he gets his shop reset up if he'd be interested in building another one but I don't know what costs would be

I'm in Long Beach CA. We made everything. We spun the pole on the lathe along with the base tube. It was all made from solid round 7071 billet aluminum. The two bolts on the back of base uses the thermostat housing bolt holes and the two front bolts go through a bracket that has rods the go from the bottom of the base plate down to the front of the cylinder heads. I would have to pull the seat out of my boat to show you how I did that and that's kind of a pain in the ass.
The pole has a threaded hole in the base of it which screws down in the base cylinder to a aluminum threaded rod that we put up through the bottom and weld it on the bottom side of the base plate.
The bezel in the engine hatch was bought from Dana Marine products when I built this over 10 years ago. The whole thing was built upon the inside dimension of that bezel
That would be awesome, let me know what your buddy says. Thanks
 

lbhsbz

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I can ask my buddy when he gets his shop reset up if he'd be interested in building another one but I don't know what costs would be

I'm in Long Beach CA. We made everything. We spun the pole on the lathe along with the base tube. It was all made from solid round 7071 billet aluminum. The two bolts on the back of base uses the thermostat housing bolt holes and the two front bolts go through a bracket that has rods the go from the bottom of the base plate down to the front of the cylinder heads. I would have to pull the seat out of my boat to show you how I did that and that's kind of a pain in the ass.
The pole has a threaded hole in the base of it which screws down in the base cylinder to a aluminum threaded rod that we put up through the bottom and weld it on the bottom side of the base plate.
The bezel in the engine hatch was bought from Dana Marine products when I built this over 10 years ago. The whole thing was built upon the inside dimension of that bezel
Curious what process you used to weld that together....7XXX aluminum is generally considered to be unweldable
 

LB247XS

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Curious what process you used to weld that together....7XXX aluminum is generally considered to be unweldable
I'm not a fabricator so Im not sure. Only things I did was help spin and cut on the lathe. 🤷
 

Marine Industries West

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Here's a pylon assembly we did for a Nordic 25. Made a new mount assembly but kept it in the factory ski pole location. Also modified the factory short pole so it's interchangeable with the new taller pole.
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Cheetah98

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I'll get some pictures with my tape measure and post them to you tomorrow but I'm not going to pull the seat out of my boat it's too much of a pain to show you that front bracketry and I forgot to mention that underneath the base plate for the thermostat housing bolts I had to put some aluminum spacers for the bolts to go through to get it up off the thermostat housing
Sounds good, Yes I can see the aluminum spacers on the bolts for the T-stat. Measurements and photos would be great. Thank you again.
 

LB247XS

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Sounds good, Yes I can see the aluminum spacers on the bolts for the T-stat. Measurements and photos would be great. Thank you again.
I'll get it to you tomorrow it's raining here now and I just got home from work 👍
 

Cheetah98

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I'll get it to you tomorrow it's raining here now and I just got home from work 👍
Hello, I was wondering if you had a chance to talk to your buddy about the ski mount and pole? I also was wondering if you any luck on getting some pics with the tape measure. Thank again for all your help.
Here is my cell 602-750-7621 might be a lot easier sending the pics to my phone.
Thank you again...
 

Cheetah98

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I'll get it to you tomorrow it's raining here now and I just got home from work 👍
Good afternoon, I was wondering if you heard back from your buddy on the ski pole and mount? I also was wondering if you had a chance to get some close up pics and measurements. Thanks. Hope all is well
 
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