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? for RDP Contractors - BBQ Island

batterup

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I recently had a BBQ installed as part of a pool remodel. I used a professional, high end contractor to do the work. I'm just wondering if what's happening in the pictures is normal. The counter top is cracking and pools water in the middle. I'm being told by the contractor that this is normal and there is nothing that can be done about the cracks. Thanks for any input.

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Bear Down

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I'd be pissed...and nervous at the same time.... Good luck..
 

Get415

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Thats a nasty crack/line. What the heck is the green thing popping out?
 

hallett21

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Do you have photos of their forms and rebar? Shouldn’t be cracking like that.




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Boat211

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Just curious as to what the base of the structure looks like? Is it framed out of wood? Metal studs? Cinder block?
 

batterup

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I'd be pissed...and nervous at the same time.... Good luck..
I'm definitely a little nervous. I wanted to know if it's normal before I get too pissed, but so far it's looking like I should be.
 

batterup

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Just curious as to what the base of the structure looks like? Is it framed out of wood? Metal studs? Cinder block?
The base is cinder block and the top was framed with wood and formed with foam bullnose.
 

Get415

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That pooling wont be good when the cooler weather comes and you have moisture sitting on there all day. I'm curious how that can be fixed.
 

batterup

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That pooling wont be good when the cooler weather comes and you have moisture sitting on there all day. I'm curious how that can be fixed.
That's one of my major concerns.
 

batterup

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Do you have photos of their forms and rebar? Shouldn’t be cracking like that.
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I can't remember if I took pics, but will look. I'm just concerned the cracks will grow and become a bigger issue. They are about 2 feet apart right in the middle.
 

hallett21

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I can't remember if I took pics, but will look. I'm just concerned the cracks will grow and become a bigger issue. They are about 2 feet apart right in the middle.
Do you remember if they tied rebar into the CMU walls & slab?

Crack-less concrete is kind of an oxymoron but your photos look way beyond hairline cracks.

Did they use a vibrator when the top got poured?




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batterup

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Do you remember if they tied rebar into the CMU walls & slab?

Crack-less concrete is kind of an oxymoron but your photos look way beyond hairline cracks.

Did they use a vibrator when the top got poured?

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I'm 99% sure they didn't tie in the rebar to the base. I remember it being just a wood top with the rebar in a checkered pattern with nothing else going into the CMU. I don't remember seeing them using a vibrator, but I could be wrong.
 

batterup

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The issue with the cracks is the water will migrate to the rebar, corrosion will start and your countertop will start to spall once the rebar is allowed to expand.
That doesn't sound good. :eek:
 

Mandelon

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Concrete cracks. It is a fairly brittle product once it dries. But it sure shouldn't be ponding water in the middle. It is totally unsightly and unacceptable. I'd try to get them to repour it.

Looks like the rebar in the countertop is too high and has actually weakened the concrete there being too close to the surface.
 

wet hull

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^ what he said. Without tear out they could grind flat and polish/ seal. Will still have the cracks no matter what. Epoxy prior to grind. I would make them tear out. Don't hand over money if not to late.
 

82daytona

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The issue with the cracks is the water will migrate to the rebar, corrosion will start and your countertop will start to spall once the rebar is allowed to expand.
This guy knows his shit. We hear about concrete tops cracking all the time.


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Boat211

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The base is cinder block and the top was framed with wood and formed with foam bullnose.
These guys above know more than me for sure. I was curious if the base was settling and then in turn cracking the top. With CMU I would think this is less likely unless the foundation that its built on is settling. If it were wood framed I could see that being a potential issue. Are there any cracks in the CMU?
 

batterup

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Concrete cracks. It is a fairly brittle product once it dries. But it sure shouldn't be ponding water in the middle. It is totally unsightly and unacceptable. I'd try to get them to repour it.

Looks like the rebar in the countertop is too high and has actually weakened the concrete there being too close to the surface.
Thanks for your input. We feel it’s unacceptable as well.
 

Done-it-again

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I was told by a contractor before that there are 2 types of concrete. The one that cracks and the one that will crack. Looks like you have the one that cracks. I went with pavers. But my contractor (separate one) wouldn’t do concrete tops because of cracks.
 

Melloyellovector

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Ok so since you want to get online opinions. Just like your wife’s “friends” opinions
I got nothing to hide, this was our work.

Concrete cracks it can and does happen. Sorry it’s not the response you wanted
Yes rebar goes from block into counter. Yes rebar grid entire top. No rebar is not to close to surface. Yes we use vibrator when pouring. Nothing I see is a structural issue. Yes it’s unfortunate but it happens.

I haven’t even seen in person yet. You just contacted me 2 days ago and go from ya come by when ever to this is unacceptable!
I can already tell you those are superficial non structural cracks. You wet down counter top and highlighted the cracks. Making them appear worse then they actually are. Reality is hairline non visual or structural at best.
The water pooling I told you if it’s a low area we could possibly diamond sand it out.
It could also be a flat surface with water proofing. That your getting water onto. So it has no drop and with water proofing it’s pooling.
Go dump water on your kitchen counter, or outdoor granite counters etc. when it’s level it’s going to pool. Solution stop putting water on your counter tops

Instead of going online attempting to closet bash me.
Wait for me to actually see, and I let you know what or if we’ll even do anything.
 
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Universal Elements

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Ok so since you want to get online opinions. Just like your wife’s “friends” opinions
I got nothing to hide, this was our work.

Concrete cracks it can and does happen. Sorry it’s not the response you wanted
Yes rebar goes from block into counter. Yes rebar grid entire top. No rebar is not to close to surface. Yes we use vibrator when pouring. Nothing I see is a structural issue. Yes it’s unfortunate but it happens.

I haven’t even seen in person yet. You just contacted me 2 days ago and go from ya come by when ever to this is unacceptable!
I can already tell you those are superficial non structural cracks. You wet down counter top and highlighted the cracks. Making them appear worse then they actually are. Reality is hairline non visual or structural at best.
The water pooling I told you if it’s a low area we could possibly diamond sand it out.
It could also be a flat surface with water proofing. That your getting water onto. So it has no drop and with water proofing it’s pooling.
Go dump water on your kitchen counter, or outdoor granite counters etc. when it’s level it’s going to pool. Solution stop putting water on your counter tops

Instead of going online attempting to closet bash me.
Wait for me to actually see, and I let you know what or if we’ll even do anything.
Damn always two parts to a story. Good for you. Could of at least given you a chance to rectify the issues.
 

RiverDave

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Think I’d hold off and wait till the contractor shows up to discuss.

On the water pooling deal.. If it’s flat and it’s sealed it’s gonna pool. That is just the nature of water and it’s surface tension. Used to drive me bananas with my outdoor counters In Parker I had dine out of granite. A quick wipe down though in the granite and they were good to go. Not sure if that works with concrete like that.

Either way I think I’d at least let the guy go see it in person and discuss to see what’s what.

Those pics look terrible, but a giant pool of dried up water and wet cracks isnt going to look good in pics. Lol.
 

Joker

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Water shouldn’t be sitting in this area. Put a level on it and you’ll find a belly
 

RiverDave

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Water shouldn’t be sitting in this area. Put a level on it and you’ll find a belly
If it’s perfectly flat and waterproofed where would it go? It isn’t pitched or crowned.

When water is sitting in the flat area on the bow if my boat is sits there until it evaporates.??

I’m not saying there isn’t a dip there or there isn’t because there is no way to know without a level and light.. but just because of the nature of surface tension of water this would happen if it was flat as well.

It would have to have a pitch or a crown to shed the water otherwise it’s gonna sit there. What would pull it off?
 

Melloyellovector

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Water shouldn’t be sitting in this area. Put a level on it and you’ll find a belly
I already told Keith 2 days ago I’d go next time in area and review. If there is a low spot or high they can be diamond sanded out and resealed. No big deal.
How ever if it’s flat with sealer, water can and will resemble pooling when it’s just the water proofing ( water surface tension ) and flat area keeping it from going anywhere. Put a piece of glass outside level spray it with water let me know if the glass has a belly.
Its a hand made product that is later diamond sanded to a polished surface its going to have slight variations. And that is acceptable regardless residential or commercial.
Any CONCRETE contractors that do more then flat work only are welcome to join and give their opinions.
We can do a RDP meeting of industry pros. If I’m wrong I’ll make it right. I’m just pretty confident as of now I’m not
 
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batterup

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Ok so since you want to get online opinions. Just like your wife’s “friends” opinions
I got nothing to hide, this was our work.

Concrete cracks it can and does happen. Sorry it’s not the response you wanted
Yes rebar goes from block into counter. Yes rebar grid entire top. No rebar is not to close to surface. Yes we use vibrator when pouring. Nothing I see is a structural issue. Yes it’s unfortunate but it happens.

I haven’t even seen in person yet. You just contacted me 2 days ago and go from ya come by when ever to this is unacceptable!
I can already tell you those are superficial non structural cracks. You wet down counter top and highlighted the cracks. Making them appear worse then they actually are. Reality is hairline non visual or structural at best.
The water pooling I told you if it’s a low area we could possibly diamond sand it out.
It could also be a flat surface with water proofing. That your getting water onto. So it has no drop and with water proofing it’s pooling.
Go dump water on your kitchen counter, or outdoor granite counters etc. when it’s level it’s going to pool. Solution stop putting water on your counter tops

Instead of going online attempting to closet bash me.
Wait for me to actually see, and I let you know what or if we’ll even do anything.
Oh Tim, once again you are being defensive. This has been the case from the very beginning. This was not a call out thread. I never mentioned your name or anything negative. You told me that the other contractors we spoke to were basically idiots. I don’t know any other contractors, so I came here because I know there are a lot of guys that know their stuff.

Also, we contacted you a week ago about the pooling and you told us you would come look but never sent us follow up until we sent you pics of the cracks. On that note, the cracks are wet, not highlighted.

If I wanted to bash you, I would send copies of all your unprofessional text and other work you did for us.

Like somebody said, there are two sides of every story, but I at least have the proof to back mine. I also have several other members text that reflect your work.
 
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batterup

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Damn always two parts to a story. Good for you. Could of at least given you a chance to rectify the issues.
I did give him a chance to rectify. He basically told us there is not much to do and that it was normal. I just wanted second opinions before I got upset. Show me where I bashed him or was unprofessional.
 

RiverDave

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Oh Tim, once again you are being defensive. This has been the case from the very beginning. This was not a call out thread. I never mentioned your name or anything negative. You told me that the other contractors we spoke to basically idiot. I don’t know any other contractors, so I came here because I know there a lot of guys that know their stuff.

Also, we contacted you a week ago about the pooling and you keep told us you would come look but never sent us follow up until we sent you pics of the cracks. On that note, the cracks are wet, not highlighted.

If I wanted to bash you, I would send copies of all your unprofessional text and other work you did for us.

Like somebody said, there are two sides of every story, but I at least have the proof to back mine. I also have several other members text that reflect your work.
He was saying by the cracks being wet it is “highlighting” the crack.
 

batterup

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Posting online 2 days after the contractor was notified, and not been by to inspect yet it not cool, or fair. my 2 cents.
Again, it’s been a week with no follow up. I was giving him time to fix, just like all of his other mistakes. I was just looking for opinions, not bashing! He opened this can of worms.
 

batterup

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Think I’d hold off and wait till the contractor shows up to discuss.

On the water pooling deal.. If it’s flat and it’s sealed it’s gonna pool. That is just the nature of water and it’s surface tension. Used to drive me bananas with my outdoor counters In Parker I had dine out of granite. A quick wipe down though in the granite and they were good to go. Not sure if that works with concrete like that.

Either way I think I’d at least let the guy go see it in person and discuss to see what’s what.

Those pics look terrible, but a giant pool of dried up water and wet cracks isnt going to look good in pics. Lol.
All I did was ask for opinions. If I had to wait until he showed up to discuss, that would probably be months. When he was doing my job he said he normally doesn’t even meet with clients. And when he did meet with us it took weeks. Again, I just wanted opinions to see if I should even care. I was just using this form like other inmates do for an opinion. I never mentioned his name and had no plans to.
 

RiverDave

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Again, it’s been a week with no follow up. I was giving him time to fix, just like all of his other mistakes. I was just looking for opinions, not bashing! He opened this can of worms.


All I did was ask for opinions. If I had to wait until he showed up to discuss, that would probably be months. When he was doing my job he said he normally doesn’t even meet with clients. And when he did meet with us it took weeks. Again, I just wanted opinions to see if I should even care. I was just using this form like other inmates do for an opinion. I never mentioned his name and had no plans to.
I am just surprised to hear anything at all. He’s done like 30+ backyards for members and I have heard nothing but rave reviews from literally every person I have talked too.

To be clear I am not some decorative concrete expert.. but common sense and basic knowledge of watt says if it’s on a flat surface it’s going to pool. That is the very reason they crown roads and pitch garages, roofs, walk decks, shower pans, sinks etc.

The age old saying “shit runs downhill” is true in reverse “no hill, shit stays where it’s at.” :D

As for the cracking I have no idea if that’s normal or not as I have never had concrete like that done.

The pooling on a flat surface isn’t a matter of opinions though that is basic 3rd or 4th grade Science, especially on a smooth surface that the water will stick too.
 

RiverDave

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So I should just never get it wet. .
Do you bbq in the rain a lot? :D.

As I mentioned earlier with my granite counter tops that were outside the same pooling would happen. I’d just wipe them off after it rained or before we cooked. I have no idea how it works with concrete etc? (With regard to the waterproofing vs epoxy on granite)
 
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Melloyellovector

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Well like w everything your memory isn’t so great. See below, you texted me Monday night, I responded Tuesday. Where is the last week or ignoring. And to clarify I said many times w remodels many times I never meet customer.
Also your texts yesterday didn’t say you talked to contractors. It was you talked to friends. And they all have concrete counters and agree this isn’t acceptable. Anyone can imagine how I’m going to respond with attempting to tell me your “friends” say it’s not right.
Show me something in writing or contact info of your “contractors” that said it’s wrong. I’ll be more then happy to meet or talk to them for their opinion.
Also if you had professional opinion, which I’m sure you didn’t. You would of already got your answers. So why would you need to do public post for everyone’s opinions.

And your text for cracks was Thursday morning and it went down hill from there.

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batterup

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Well like w everything your memory isn’t so great. See below, you texted me Monday night, I responded Tuesday. Where is the last week or ignoring. And to clarify I said many times w remodels many times I never meet customer.
Also your texts yesterday didn’t say you talked to contractors. It was you talked to friends. And they all have concrete counters and agree this isn’t acceptable. Anyone can imagine how I’m going to respond with attempting to tell me your “friends” say it’s not right.
Show me something in writing or contact info of your “contractors” that said it’s wrong. I’ll be more then happy to meet or talk to them for their opinion.
Also if you had professional opinion, which I’m sure you didn’t. You would of already got your answers. So why would you need to do public post for everyone’s opinions.

And your text for cracks was Thursday morning and it went down hill from there.
Tim, it was never my intent to air our dirty laundry on this thread. I simply asked a question to get answers. To clarify, our friends are contractors. Regardless of everything that has happened, you have the option to fix the issue or not. In hindsight, I just wish I knew that it was your business practice not to meet with clients on remodels before I spent over 80k. I just never thought to ask the question. I guess it’s a good learning lesson. I look forward to meeting with you.
 

NicPaus

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Can you post a few more pictures without putting water on the cracked area. I can post them on the concrete forum and show you what they say.
 

Melloyellovector

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Can you post a few more pictures without putting water on the cracked area. I can post them on the concrete forum and show you what they say.
Nic, your welcome to meet on site and I’ll even cover trip charge if you want.
 

Joker

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I didn’t see the OP as wanting to throw MYV under the bus here. I look at it as him just looking for opinions prior to their meet up.
Looking closer at the cracking, it looks superficial and the threat of concrete spalling is minimal.
If MYV can address the birdbath, I’d call it good.
 

boatpi

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Seems like time to move it forward and let mature men resolve it.
 

Racey

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Customer has flat counters: "These things puddle water when i soak them down, this is unacceptable"

Customer has crowned or sloped counters: "Shit keeps rolling off my damn counters when i set it down, this is unacceptable"

:D

I feel for you contractors....
 

RiverDave

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I didn’t see the OP as wanting to throw MYV under the bus here. I look at it as him just looking for opinions prior to their meet up.
Looking closer at the cracking, it looks superficial and the threat of concrete spalling is minimal.
If MYV can address the birdbath, I’d call it good.
What do you think water is going to do when it is sitting on a flat surface?

Counters can’t have any pitch to them sooo.. ??? Lol.

What is it you think it should be doing?
 
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