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? for RDP Contractors - BBQ Island

RiverDave

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Customer has flat counters: "These things puddle water when i soak them down, this is unacceptable"

Customer has crowned or sloped counters: "Shit keeps rolling off my damn counters when i set it down, this is unacceptable"

:D

I feel for you contractors....
Lol.. that’s about the two choices.
 

Joker

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What do you think water is going to do when it is sitting on a flat surface?

Counters can’t have any pitch to them sooo.. ??? Lol.

What is it you think it should be doing?
Well the countertop i poured at our place doesn’t hold water and who says a countertop can’t have a slight pitch?
Without being there, i can’t tell how deep the birdbath is which is why i suggested putting a level on it.
Neither you nor I have the capability of seeing if there’s an issue just from looking at pictures
 

RiverDave

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Well the countertop i poured at our place doesn’t hold water and who says a countertop can’t have a slight pitch?
Without being there, i can’t tell how deep the birdbath is which is why i suggested putting a level on it.
Neither you nor I have the capability of seeing if there’s an issue just from looking at pictures
If you pitch a counter top everything will roll off of it. If water gets under a coaster or a beer etc on a polished surface it’s like ice and things will just slide right off of it.

You have never been at a bar and put a beer down and watch the thing start sliding almost like it has a mind of its own?

Even with a slight pitch water will pool on a polished surface because water wants to stick to it.

If there is a low spot on the counter than I’d probably have it addressed, but it’s not going to do much to change the outcome of pooling.
 

Racey

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What do you think water is going to do when it is sitting on a flat surface?

Counters can’t have any pitch to them sooo.. ??? Lol.

What is it you think it should be doing?
Exactly, if you don't wipe the water off your boat, it leaves water spots. If you let water sit on a flat counter until it evaporates, it will leave what looks like a basin puddle as it shrinks inward while it dries....

If there really is a bowl crown, MYV said he would come and surface it, which is the most anyone can do. You can't change the laws of physics.
 

gqchris

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Ive never argued with any of my clients, luckily. We just part ways. (I'm in IT, not Construction). But it sucks because no-one will come out of this feeling good now. Its always a loss for both parties:(
 

Joker

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If you pitch a counter top everything will roll off of it. If water gets under a coaster or a beer etc on a polished surface it’s like ice and things will just slide right off of it.

You have never been at a bar and put a beer down and watch the thing start sliding almost like it has a mind of its own?

Even with a slight pitch water will pool on a polished surface because water wants to stick to it.

If there is a low spot on the counter than I’d probably have it addressed, but it’s not going to do much to change the outcome of pooling.
It’s not my countertop so I’m not going to argue about it.
 

Lunatic Fringe

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Don’t you do this type of stuff? What is your thoughts on this?
No opinion on the water puddle without knowing the depth of the sag, if any.

Cracks? Concrete cracks.
That being a known, a contractor who builds concrete counters should be quite clear to their customers that cracking can occur and unless it's severe enough to create a structural issue or chunks falling out, it is what it is.

If the surface gets re-ground to level it, I would use this product to seal the top. https://watersealant.com/index.php/001/ Use the PWS-8.
It will span hairline cracks and stop the water penetration into them and the resulting dark color from the moisture.
 

RiverDave

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Ive never argued with any of my clients, luckily. We just part ways. (I'm in IT, not Construction). But it sucks because no-one will come out of this feeling good now. Its always a loss for both parties:(
I think if batterup has a few concrete guys come out there and they say it is normal he will be fine.

I think it’s in his head right now that it isn’t.
 

RiverDave

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It’s not my countertop so I’m not going to argue about it.
Not arguing at all. I was just asking what in your expert opinion is water supposed to do on a flat surface other than pool or puddle?
 

RiverDave

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Has anyone determined it’s flat? That’s step 1
Ok so let’s say it’s not flat.
Step 1. Make it flat.

Ok now pour water.. water puddles on top of flat counter top.

What’s next? :D

I keep asking you the same question. What do you think water is gonna do on a flat counter top?
 

batterup

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Ok so let’s say it’s not flat.
Step 1. Make it flat.

Ok now pour water.. water puddles on top of flat counter top.

What’s next? :D

I keep asking you the same question. What do you think water is gonna do on a flat counter top?
This will hopefully be my last reply in this thread because again it wasn't intended to be a call out thread. RD, just so you know I took a level to it this morning and it's definitively not level. And what I mean by not level is that it dips in the middle. I'm not a concrete or basic science expert like you, so I don't know what difference that makes. Hence, why I came on here to get opinions. I would've done the same thing whether it was Tim or a contractor out of the yellow pages. Another reason I didn't do a call out thread is because I know better. We all know how protective you are of your sponsors and I get it. You have to protect the people that pay you. If I really wanted to call out Tim, I would've pointed out a lot worse than my BBQ Island.
 

Melloyellovector

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The pooling I already said
Has anyone determined it’s flat? That’s step 1
Haven’t got the chance, it went from I’ll check it out when in area. To hey there is cracks also. This is unacceptable. At this point I’ll review when there is other decorative concrete companies willing to meet on site at same time. Since my “opinion” or responses are not the answer they want to hear.

I have addressed/resolved every concern previous to this. Soooo idk
 

RiverDave

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This will hopefully be my last reply in this thread because again it wasn't intended to be a call out thread. RD, just so you know I took a level to it this morning and it's definitively not level. And what I mean by not level is that it dips in the middle. I'm not a concrete or basic science expert like you, so I don't know what difference that makes. Hence, why I came on here to get opinions. I would've done the same thing whether it was Tim or a contractor out of the yellow pages. Another reason I didn't do a call out thread is because I know better. We all know how protective you are of your sponsors and I get it. You have to protect the people that pay you. If I really wanted to call out Tim, I would've pointed out a lot worse than my BBQ Island.
I am just joking around with joker. I hope that your concerns are alleviated and if there is any dips I am sure they will grind it flat and make sure you are happy.

My point to joker is water is water and it is going to pool when it’s flat as well. What else could it do other than that?

Those cracks I don’t know about.

Either way I look forward to seeing how it all plays out.
 
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NicPaus

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We need a few more pics of the cracks without water on them. Most likely won't notice them without water. Common with concrete you can do everything to prevent them but I have had them show up where I least expected and had a few spots I thought would and 10 years no cracks.
 

Joker

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I am just joking around with joker. I hope that your concerns are alleviated and if there is any dips I am sure they will grind it flat and make sure you are happy.

My point to joker is water is water and it is going to pool when it’s flat as well. What else could it do other than that?

Those cracks I don’t know about.

Either way I look forward to seeing how it all plays out.
With regards to water pooling on the deck of your boat, maybe you should try some wax. I know what you’re trying to say.
 

Havasu blue label

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Ok counter tops will hold some water it's flat or your it looks like facial cracks they are not structural buff it out seal it and party
 

RiverDave

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With regards to water pooling on the deck of your boat, maybe you should try some wax. I know what you’re trying to say.
I’m thinking the OP doesn’t because I think he mistook my joking around with you as something that it wasn’t.
 

Melloyellovector

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Since someone claims that I am incorrect with the water pooling on a flat surface, I went mythbusters in the garage tonight.

Here’s a polished granite surface that is flat within .00005 of an inch (50 millionths)

I met with him today, there actually is a less then 1/16in low spot.
No big deal, we’ll surface it out to edge of counter. And move on in life. Same as would have happened with or with out this thread. The cracking is a non issue, ultra fine hairline non structural.
Should be done by this Weekend

Edit:
There is no pour in place concrete that will get anywhere near your slab perimeters. This is all wood and foam forms. Typically Pour level. No drop. Hand finished. After pour we wait til job nearly done. Then go back with diamond pads and polish the concrete down to 200 plus grit range. The amount of cream on the surface, or pressure on grinder with 6in pads etc all can leave slight surface variations. We try for level. This is the first one that’s ever been brought to my attention w pooling. Appreciate your dedication to show yes it can and will pool on flat surface though. Lol
 
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Carlson-jet

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I know what Dave has there. I've used and abused them plenty.
You should have told them what it costs to resurface that Dave. :D
 

RiverDave

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I know what Dave has there. I've used and abused them plenty.
You should have told them what it costs to resurface that Dave. :D
Back at home not too much. In Havasu I’d buy a new one if I was doing aerospace again. That said this hasn’t been abused and I’d bet it’s still within tolerance.. it’s been in a climate controlled environment the whole time.

I could setup and check it within my abilities but why.. I don’t even own a surface grinder anymore and the closest I could run something in my shop is two tenths on my lathe (no shit and repeatable, I pulled it off on a job one time).. 50 millionths you better have a decent surface grinder and know how to use it. Even then? Good lord.. temp variations and it’s out of tolerance.

I wasn’t kidding when I said I can put my hand in that granite and the heat off my hand I can measure and tell you exactly where my fingers were from thermal expansion of the stone itself. That is tolerance beyond tolerance. You can’t consistently produce things that tight without throwing a ton of them in the trash... and even then you wouldn’t know for sure.

The only reason I have that gauge was for a specialized project I did back in the day. All ground and it was roughly a hundred times tighter than a gnats ass, on tolerance. It was done and passed though.
 
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wzuber

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Since someone claims that I am incorrect with the water pooling on a flat surface, I went mythbusters in the garage tonight.

Here’s a polished granite surface that is flat within .00005 of an inch (50 millionths)

so.."disrupted mobility fever" is a runin a bit high these days...noted. :D
 

RiverDave

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No comment about the precision wood surface its sitting on? :D
I was going to point out it is on my roll away in a garage that has some slope to it.. when you get to polished surfaces the water wants to stick to them more.. even at slight angles it will pool. You’d have to put a pretty decent pitch on a polished counter top to get water to roll off of it. Enough that people would be asking you l, WTF is up with your angled counter tops. Lol
 

Moody

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Ill chime in on this topic. I always get bashed though. Screw it. So here is the deal. I used to build this concrete counters. Retired now. Easier ways to make money. When we first started building the countertops we used traditional concrete. Used rebar for structural support. Shit would always crack. Before I sold that part of the business we perfected the mix and came up with a design that use little water in the mix and fiber glass as your structural support. Its call GFRC. Glass Fiber Re forced concrete. The tops were precasted in my shop. Not poured in place. Water reducers, Polymers, Heat curing are a few of the tricks to get the concrete not to crack.
 

Melloyellovector

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Ill chime in on this topic. I always get bashed though. Screw it. So here is the deal. I used to build this concrete counters. Retired now. Easier ways to make money. When we first started building the countertops we used traditional concrete. Used rebar for structural support. Shit would always crack. Before I sold that part of the business we perfected the mix and came up with a design that use little water in the mix and fiber glass as your structural support. Its call GFRC. Glass Fiber Re forced concrete. The tops were precasted in my shop. Not poured in place. Water reducers, Polymers, Heat curing are a few of the tricks to get the concrete not to crack.
I won’t bash you, lol
We’ve done fab counters also, GFRC. But most don’t want to pay for that.
Not a real comparison to in field pour in place concrete.
Better to compare GFRC with slab granite, soapstone, limestone, glass etc...
 

RiverDave

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Ill chime in on this topic. I always get bashed though. Screw it. So here is the deal. I used to build this concrete counters. Retired now. Easier ways to make money. When we first started building the countertops we used traditional concrete. Used rebar for structural support. Shit would always crack. Before I sold that part of the business we perfected the mix and came up with a design that use little water in the mix and fiber glass as your structural support. Its call GFRC. Glass Fiber Re forced concrete. The tops were precasted in my shop. Not poured in place. Water reducers, Polymers, Heat curing are a few of the tricks to get the concrete not to crack.
What do ya mean you always get bashed?
 
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