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Fuel pump?

RonnieINHB

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Hey brothers&sisters too
I'm Ron and the boat is '89 commander open bow w/Berkeley and Chevy big block. I think it's cool as hell. I love everything bout jet boats and I'm learning alot. Much respect for everyone's knowledge here and so that's why Im here withmy 1st ?.
Sooo I'm at the lake(havasu) w/the girl friend and after just replacing bad msd ignition box we head up river out of Windsor. I'm taking it real easy slowly up on plane and everything feels and sounds real good. Oil pressure normal, voltage is normal and engine temp normal. Give it more gas and motor coughs and spits a back fire and motor cuts out. Boat starts up immediately purring nicely. This continues to happen. So it starts and idles great but right when it starts to get on plane and I'm giving more throttle it starts cutting out and when it does that I get off the gas and motor drops to idle and purring nicely again like nothing is wrong and I limp back to Windsor like this. Question is......what the hell could cause this, fuel pump ?
 

Flynryan

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Im not a huge motor guy myself so Im gonna take a guess and say its maybe the secondaries on the carb being gummed up?

I will listen to what the pros have to say here shortly.

Good luck!
 

RonnieINHB

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Im not a huge motor guy myself so Im gonna take a guess and say its maybe the secondaries on the carb being gummed up?

I will listen to what the pros have to say here shortly.

Good luck!
thank u man I will look into that and anything else from anyone would be much appreciated
 

Rogers Hopeful

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Are your floats set right? Might be to low and your sucking the bowls dry?. This was suggested on another thread at some point.


Day dreaming about the river
 

Chilidog39

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I was having the same exact issue this last weekend. I have a jet boat 2001 with 454 jet. It was the fuel pump, do you have a Carter electric pump?






QUOTE=Rogers Hopeful;1486149]Are your floats set right? Might be to low and your sucking the bowls dry?. This was suggested on another thread at some point.


Day dreaming about the river[/QUOTE]
 

Outdrive1

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the carb was just rebuilt
Why? Who did it? You, or a professional? Did you check your fuel pressure with a gauge?

Does it only pop under acceleration? Can you get anything other than idle out of it without it backfiring? Can you slowly ease it up to a higher rpm?

It's starting right back up and idling? So the fuel pump or bowls have to be getting fuel immediately back in them. You used the word immediately.

Does the accelerator pump actually work? Is the linkage connected to the accelerator pump? Can you look down in the carb, pump the gas and see it squirt fuel?

What's the timing set at? Did you change that at all??
 

Chilidog39

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Like I said, I took mine to a mechanic who decided to throw all kinds of diagnosis, There are so many possiblities. I had my carb rebuilt, changed plugs, plug wires, coil, dist cap, dist module..It was my Carter Fuel pump which is an electric pump mounted to my engine. I was only getting 1 pound of fuel pressure. After replacing the fuel pump, it ran way better. However, I was still getting some popping at very high RPM's so after checking the volts going to the fuel pump, they were also low(10.8) I would definately start at the fuel pump first. If its a Holley Carb, they are very finicky if they dont get all the fuel they want
 

Hye Power

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Definitely sounds fuel related, pump and fuel level is where to start.
 

RonnieINHB

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Thanx everyone all replies are big help. The wealth of knowledge here is crazy!
Ok so....carb was rebuilt by professional and motor ran great after carb work. Back fire only happened once so I don't think that's relevant. We were up river and needed to g?t back to Windsor ramp and I wasn't feelin the idle speed all the way back so I had the girlfriend up on the bow holding onto the anchor lol and tried to get boat up on plane but each time we were bout to get on plane the motor wud start to cut out so I'd get off the gas and I could keep motor running. Maybe it's the carb needing more fuel becuz of higher rpms and the pump isn't meeting that requirement
 

Chilidog39

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Thanx everyone all replies are big help. The wealth of knowledge here is crazy!
Ok so....carb was rebuilt by professional and motor ran great after carb work. Back fire only happened once so I don't think that's relevant. We were up river and needed to g?t back to Windsor ramp and I wasn't feelin the idle speed all the way back so I had the girlfriend up on the bow holding onto the anchor lol and tried to get boat up on plane but each time we were bout to get on plane the motor wud start to cut out so I'd get off the gas and I could keep motor running. Maybe it's the carb needing more fuel becuz of higher rpms and the pump isn't meeting that requirement

Definately...and if you have a belly tank, under ur seat there may be a filter right on top, connected to the line to ur filter, you may wanna check the filters prior to carb. I would assume as well that the guy who rebuilt the carb also went thru the secondaries, if its a vacuum secoundary, could be that. A very common problem is corrosion under that engine hatch and if you replace the fuel pump and it doesnt help, check the volts going to that fuel pump...that power wire can rust and corrode from the inside. If I may suggest, if its the Carter electric fuel pump, upgrade to a Holley, or higher performance fuel pump, its worth the extra $$
 

jetboatperformance

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Unless I missed something you have yet to say what exact carb it is ? would like to help as would others but the model (list number) may be "key" to this even a picture might help ? , some carbs have their own idiosychrocies and this info may help Tom
 

Outdrive1

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One more wrench in your list of parts thrown at this motor.

A popping sound or backfire at rpm could be a blown head gasket between cylinders or a bad valve, tulip'd valve or bent valve stem. Cracked head also.

If you started throwing parts at it because you had this symptom when you started and its still there, that may be a possibility. A compression check may not show it because the valve may still seal just not under load. Try a leak down test if you can't find any fuel issues.
 

RonnieINHB

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I live in California and boat is at the girlfriends house. Leaving to go out there tonight so I repost here tomorrow with more details.
Thanks everyone !
 

RonnieINHB

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Unless I missed something you have yet to say what exact carb it is ? would like to help as would others but the model (list number) may be "key" to this even a picture might help ? , some carbs have their own idiosychrocies and this info may help Tom
R84022
 

RonnieINHB

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you guys are puzzled and don't have any answers on the fuel pump
the clowns at oreilly led me wrong
put on the tin can pump and no fuel pumpin
nothin
 

Flyinbowtie

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Is there a fuel filter between the fuel pump and the gas tank? Check that for clogs, check the fuel line from the tank to the pump and make sure it isn't collapsed or coming apart, and, if you can, make sure the pickup in the tank isn't plugged up.

Check everything from the tank to the pump for obstructions, make sure you are delivering fuel to the pump. Then, you can check the pump. Good fuel to the pump and none out, or less than 7 PSI (Put a gauge on it) and you are under delivering fuel to the carb.
Your Carb is an older Holley Marine 4-barrel. Vac. Secondaries. The green gasket showing makes me think someone has put some work in the primary side of the acceleration pump. If you get fuel to the carb check the floats, and make sure the secondaries are opening. They will not open in the driveway, only under load. IF the vacuum signal to the secondaries has been compromised they won't open, making it fall on it's face.
 

RonnieINHB

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Is there a fuel filter between the fuel pump and the gas tank? Check that for clogs, check the fuel line from the tank to the pump and make sure it isn't collapsed or coming apart, and, if you can, make sure the pickup in the tank isn't plugged up.

Check everything from the tank to the pump for obstructions, make sure you are delivering fuel to the pump. Then, you can check the pump. Good fuel to the pump and none out, or less than 7 PSI (Put a gauge on it) and you are under delivering fuel to the carb.
Your Carb is an older Holley Marine 4-barrel. Vac. Secondaries. The green gasket showing makes me think someone has put some work in the primary side of the acceleration pump. If you get fuel to the carb check the floats, and make sure the secondaries are opening. They will not open in the driveway, only under load. IF the vacuum signal to the secondaries has been compromised they won't open, making it fall on it's face.
Talk bout dropping the 411 ! Thank u my friend. What type of pump shud I go with? And what shud the gph be?
 

Hye Power

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Did you verify fuel pressure is the issue? Also I noticed your original post said you just installed a new msd box. Which box did you get? Reason I ask is the new 6al don't use a chip anymore and have dials to adjust the rev limiter so if that is the case the rev limiter on those I believe can be tuned from 2-11k. Could be possible your hitting the rev limiter which would cut your engine out. It's one of those things having the boat in front of us it would be diagnosed in the matter of minutes but this way just takes a bit longer. I would suggest verify the info don't just throw parts at it.
 

RonnieINHB

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Did you verify fuel pressure is the issue? Also I noticed your original post said you just installed a new msd box. Which box did you get? Reason I ask is the new 6al don't use a chip anymore and have dials to adjust the rev limiter so if that is the case the rev limiter on those I believe can be tuned from 2-11k. Could be possible your hitting the rev limiter which would cut your engine out. It's one of those things having the boat in front of us it would be diagnosed in the matter of minutes but this way just takes a bit longer. I would suggest verify the info don't just throw parts at it.
Ya I wish I had 1 of you guys to look at the boat with hands on. I feel imprisoned not being able to get on the water. W/regard to msd. Yes its new with built in Rev limits. Interchangeable with 3 plug and play settings. Don't think its the msd tho. I'm not getting gas to the carb. I primed gas lines all the way to the opump which is new but what about priming carb?
I'm stuck!!!!
 

Hye Power

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Ya I wish I had 1 of you guys to look at the boat with hands on. I feel imprisoned not being able to get on the water. W/regard to msd. Yes its new with built in Rev limits. Interchangeable with 3 plug and play settings. Don't think its the msd tho. I'm not getting gas to the carb. I primed gas lines all the way to the opump which is new but what about priming carb?
I'm stuck!!!!
There is no need to prime carb fuel pump fills the bowl which is vented then float shuts off fuel at set level. Do you have fuel at the inlet at your fuel pump? Is there fuel coming out of outlet on fuel pump? If there is no fuel at inlet of pump then you have an obstruction somewhere between the tank and pump and if you have fuel at inlet of fuel pump but no pressure coming out the pump is bad.
 

Flyinbowtie

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Ronnie for us to help we need you to answer the questions we asked individually and completely. Lets not jump to choosing and buying parts until we know what the problem is. Check the system as we asked then let us know what you find, okay?
 

RonnieINHB

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Ronnie for us to help we need you to answer the questions we asked individually and completely. Lets not jump to choosing and buying parts until we know what the problem is. Check the system as we asked then let us know what you find, okay?
thanks for talkin me down off the wire
its panic attack
ok this is where im at
gas is at inlet of pump but nothing after that
its brand new fuel pump
so my guess is I put the pump in wrong? maybe the push rod missed the lever on the pump?
 

RonnieINHB

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thanks for talkin me down off the wire
its panic attack
ok this is where im at
gas is at inlet of pump but nothing after that
its brand new fuel pump
so my guess is I put the pump in wrong? maybe the push rod missed the lever on the pump?
and thanx again for stayin with me on this
much appreciated
there anyone in the havasu area?
 

cave

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Like I said, I took mine to a mechanic who decided to throw all kinds of diagnosis, There are so many possiblities. I had my carb rebuilt, changed plugs, plug wires, coil, dist cap, dist module..It was my Carter Fuel pump which is an electric pump mounted to my engine. I was only getting 1 pound of fuel pressure. After replacing the fuel pump, it ran way better. However, I was still getting some popping at very high RPM's so after checking the volts going to the fuel pump, they were also low(10.8) I would definately start at the fuel pump first. If its a Holley Carb, they are very finicky if they dont get all the fuel they want
you need 5lbs on a holly. I would check your fuel for water. If you don't have one now have a water fuel separator installed. If you have good fuel pressure and it pops at acceleration, there may be just enough water on the bottom of your tanks to make it cough and stumble.

MSD's AL6 makes a motor pop at acceleration just before they fail. Just because its new don't mean its ok. There is a test on MSD's site that you can do to test it. taks 2 people to do it. Another item that happened to me is the Pick Up in the dizzy will make a motor pop on the top end just before it fails. 30.00 dollar part inside the MSD distributor. Depending on what model Dist you have.
 

Flyinbowtie

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Ronnie if you have confirmed that you have an unobstructed supply of fuel to the inlet side of the pump and the pump is not working then you can zero in on it as a problem. It sounds like you installed the pump. Pull the pump off and make sure you have the drive right. That rod is held in place in a tube bored in the block and cant really miss the "lever" on the pump, if it is installed correctly. Check all of that.
If you can confirm the install is correct and that supply is there, the pump is bad. It would not be the first time a replacement mechanical fuel pump was junk outta the box.
 

RonnieINHB

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Ronnie if you have confirmed that you have an unobstructed supply of fuel to the inlet side of the pump and the pump is not working then you can zero in on it as a problem. It sounds like you installed the pump. Pull the pump off and make sure you have the drive right. That rod is held in place in a tube bored in the block and cant really miss the "lever" on the pump, if it is installed correctly. Check all of that.
If you can confirm the install is correct and that supply is there, the pump is bad. It would not be the first time a replacement mechanical fuel pump was junk outta the box.
ok I will check that for sure, thank you
I was also thinkin possibly put on block out plate and runnin electric pump
is that good or bad idea?

oh and by the way I do have the water fuel separator installed
 

Flyinbowtie

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A good mechanical fuel pump will last a long long time. Installing an electric pump will require a new circuit pulled from the wiring harness, a new fuse, and perhaps a pressure regulator. The cheap Holley Electric pumps are, in my opinion, more trouble than they are worth. If you were building a fuel system from scratch and were comfortable with wiring and rigging in general then a good electric pump is fine...but you have the support system in place for the mechanical pump.
I'd use it.
You just need to make damn sure the supply-side of the pump is perfect...no partially plugged filters, partially pinched lines, crap in the pickup in the tank. Narrow this down completely to the pump. You don't want to buy and install a new pump unless you have done everything you can to make dang sure it is the pump...okay?
 

Hye Power

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ok I will check that for sure, thank you
I was also thinkin possibly put on block out plate and runnin electric pump
is that good or bad idea?

oh and by the way I do have the water fuel separator installed
I would stick with mechanical and make sure it's marine, it looks like the pump you have on there now is a auto fuel pump not marine.
 

Dan Lorenze

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Sounds like what Cave mentioned, could be water in the fuel filter/separator. Used to happen to me all the time.


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Froggystyle

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You are getting great advice.

Start with a Marine fuel pump in any case. When the diaphragm fails in them, they don't leak fuel into the engine compartment which would be a serious safety hazard on a boat. An automotive fuel pump will leak when it starts going bad.
 

RonnieINHB

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ok thanx everyone for the help
I would have to say the best piece of advice was to not start buying parts before I know exactly whats up
becuz I bought fuel pump and that wasn't the issue
it was a simple fix
pulled the needle and seats out and there it was
needle jammed up with crap
hit it with carb cleaner and all is good
 
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