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Gas Prices

Christopher Lucero

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Frankly at this point I don't see what the military's fuel consumption has to do with the price I pay at the pump. The military is not short on petroleum, they have all they need. We have a government induced supply problem. We have all the petroleum we need here on this continent, we just don't go get it for political reasons.

I live 30 miles from the local refineries, I should have the cheapest gas in the country, and yet I have on average the most expensive gas in the country.
I am sorry you were unable to answer. There is dissonance for you because the macroeconomic effect on the local price you pay for a global commodity and the cost of distribution does not square with the microeconomic model you apply in isolation.
I suggest that you find some property with mineral rights and some petroleum to extract, set up a small refinery for your own needs, and then you can perhaps achieve the energy independence or low cost you seem to want.
 

boatdoc55

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I do my best to put a reasoned apolitical position out there. But I also know the stimulus-response cycle that some get caught in, and some try to engineer against the unwitting, and I try to avoid it.
if someone is about data, I can get on board. but polemic for the sake of confrontation is a waste of time.
Do you EVER type in plain 'ol American Engish or are you always looking to impress a bunch of boaters?????
 

Christopher Lucero

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Do you EVER type in plain 'ol American Engish or are you always looking to impress a bunch of boaters?????
Oh gawd. sorry. This reply isn't going to help.
I pursue precision. it makes for a more compact thesis.
I would not say I am trying to impress...just want to put some thoughts out there for consideration, rebuttal, reasoned argument.
the world is complex, and we get to choose if we will try to understand it or give up too early.
 

EmpirE231

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We drive maybe 100 miles a month on our 5 cars. I'd pay $10 a gallon to see Trump out of office. 👍

funny...I'd pay $10 a gallon to see all the California libs whine and bitch about it.... reap what you sow. Also to see their direct attack on the poor, which it affects the most, yet they claim to help.
 

Christopher Lucero

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I'd pay $10 a gallon to see all the California libs whine and bitch about it
wow. a >200% arbitrage rate, even at CA retail pump price. sign me up. I can pay lots and lots of local libs to oblige your need for whiny input while they get 'free' gas from your donation. :)
 

Doc

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this is an error. I stated that US consumer fleet (starting in CA) would migrate to electric (as it is evidently already doing, as is already under way) and thus relieve competiton between consumers and the US Armed forces. the armed forces MAY follow (there are already initiatives in place), but it is not a proposition that I put forth. you did.
Please remain calm while these technological innovations spread. Maybe you can originate the new thread on the problems you and LOF bring up regarding grid supply.

LOL... First off I am calm. You're not funny telling everyone that disagrees with you to calm down but have at it. You basically proved what I said in my last paragraph of my initial response. Everyone stay calm now, we know we can't produce enough electricity to power everything but it will happen eventually.

I don't need to start a new thread about grid supply. When everyone in here is talking about fuel/pricing/alternate power sources they all meet up in this topic. I get you don't want to talk about grid supply because it effects your argument but that's reality. You want to eliminate a power source and replace it with another that simply isn't 100% ready for a complete transition. But hey... remain calm it will eventually happen nobody is saying it won't, it's just won't be tomorrow.
 

EmpirE231

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Diesel in barstow was $4.... almost $5 in baker.... crossed the border into Pahrump, NV and it was $2.91. Pahrump is a town all by itself in the middle of nowhere town.... yet cheaper fuel prices than Riverside, right of 91 freeway @ 4.15/gal.

fuel prices are definitely up... but more of a CA / CA tax problem.
 

EmpirE231

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wow. a >200% arbitrage rate, even at CA retail pump price. sign me up. I can pay lots and lots of local libs to oblige your need for whiny input while they get 'free' gas from your donation. :)

they need to be paid to oblige and whine?
 

Christopher Lucero

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new thread about grid supply
good. calm. excellent. thanks for obliging. I also get a kick out of Regor's antics when he trolls. That was why the angry devil 👺 REVERTED TO ALL CAPS in a reply to him. A josh, joke, nudge.
This thread was started by Regor with the trolling intention to get a rise regarding 'gas prices'...it is the title of his thread, the very essence of the topic. that is why I suggest a new thread if we are going to talk about electrical supply, not gasoline. the two are far apart, at least in CA. closest they come is related to natural gas, where about 40% of turbines are natural gas fired. All other petroleum use for electricity generation is less than 0.22%
 

Christopher Lucero

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they need to be paid to oblige and whine?
well, no. lots whine as a matter of course - it is a bad habit.
BUT you offered $10 per gallon.
I am willing to accept your offer of $10 per gallon, (minor edit, for clarity) provide you with said gallon(s), and in turn I will go to gas pumps here, and take your $10 and offer various people the opportunity to whine about gas prices for you while they fill up at around $4 per gallon - funded by your generous $10 per gallon offer.
it is arbitrage of the difference between what you are willing to pay for a complex service (whiny libs) and a commonly available commodity (gasloine) and the prevailing price of said commodity
everyone ends up satisfied. capitalism at its best.
 
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EmpirE231

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well, no. lots whine as a matter of course - it is a bad habit.
BUT you offered $10 per gallon.
I am willing to accept your offer of $10 per gallon, and in turn I will go to gas pumps here, and take your $10 and offer various people the opportunity to whine about gas prices for you while they fill up at around $4 per gallon - funded by your generous $10 per gallon offer.
it is arbitrage of the difference between what you are willing to pay for a complex service (whiny libs) and a commonly available commodity (gasloine) and the prevailing price of said commodity
everyone ends up satisfied. capitalism at its best.

that would kinda defeat the purpose.... you should go back and re-read the post, then decipher the original intent of said post.... then come back with a long winded response lol
 

Christopher Lucero

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that would kinda defeat the purpose.... you should go back and re-read the post, then decipher the original intent of said post.... then come back with a long winded response lol
damn. my smart assery did not work. you saw right through it. I owe you 1 gallon of 91 octane.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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I am sorry you were unable to answer. There is dissonance for you because the macroeconomic effect on the local price you pay for a global commodity and the cost of distribution does not square with the microeconomic model you apply in isolation.
I suggest that you find some property with mineral rights and some petroleum to extract, set up a small refinery for your own needs, and then you can perhaps achieve the energy independence or low cost you seem to want.

This is a broader conversation than fuel supply, this is a conversation about energy policy. You are completely overlooking the fact that government has control over the supply of oil, and control of the taxation of fuel that comes from oil. That taxation directly affects the price paid at the pump.

Gas costs what it costs to make. The raw materials to make gas are commodities and are variable in price. Those prices are controlled by supply and demand.

Oil only comes from places where it is allowed to be excavated from. Government allows that excavation via permits. Taxes are then piled on at the federal, state and local level. Those taxes are never going to go away, maybe you can escape them for a few years with an electric car, but like I said, it is soon going to cost you as much to charge you car as it is to fill it up with gas.
 

Christopher Lucero

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the topic 'energy policy' is not the same as the trolling topic Regor started with 'gas prices'.

but. I understand you are a moderator here, so I oblige.

some basic facts of economic interaction is supply and demand. if all other factors (OPEC, Oligarchs, financial collapse, etc.) remain constant, and military demand for petroleum products rises, the supply available to the market both globally and domestically drops, because armed forces are a big gorilla, and because the capacity to refine is the production limiting resource. consumers are swept up in a high demand low supply cost curve that is artifactual of the military operations.

I will pause here and allow you to consent to the supply and demand basics I set forth.
 
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regor

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no way. christian attitude...love the messenger, hate the message (if you must) or love the message. its only words (warning: creepy)

1620341477118.gif
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Diesel in barstow was $4.... almost $5 in baker.... crossed the border into Pahrump, NV and it was $2.91. Pahrump is a town all by itself in the middle of nowhere town.... yet cheaper fuel prices than Riverside, right of 91 freeway @ 4.15/gal.

fuel prices are definitely up... but more of a CA / CA tax problem.

No the military and their demand for fuel is driving up the costs of fuel in CA.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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the topic 'energy policy' is not the same as the trolling topic Regor started with 'gas prices'.

but. I understand you are a moderator here, so I oblige.

some basic facts of economic interaction is supply and demand. if all other factors (OPEC, Oligarchs, financial collapse, etc.) remain constant, and military demand for petroleum products rises, the supply available to the market both globally and domestically drops, because armed forces are a big gorilla, and because the capacity to refine is the production limiting resource. consumers are swept up in a high demand low supply cost curve that is artifactual of the military operations.

I will pause here and allow you to consent to the supply and demand basics I set forth.

I never said supply and demand were not a part of the equation. By definition a commodity is subject to supply and demand. What I said was that government gets in the way of streamlining the supply - less domestic drilling, fewer pipelines, etc. that also drives prices up. We throttle our own supply and get oil from abroad for many reasons, most of which are dumb reasons.
 

Christopher Lucero

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I never said supply and demand were not a part of the equation. By definition a commodity is subject to supply and demand. What I said was that government gets in the way of streamlining the supply - less domestic drilling, fewer pipelines, etc. that also drives prices up. We throttle our own supply and get oil from abroad for many reasons, most of which are dumb reasons.
OK. glad to get the basic concurrence about economics. BUT...
We are going two different ways. You are stuck on a political argument, and I am sticking with the economy argument.
I do not plan on crossing into politics to explain the root cause.
I choose not to speculate in political impacts because the effects of policy are too remote to become anything but speculative ethereal rhetoric. then blaming, and angry dissatisfaction. life is too short.

best regards.
 

regor

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94Nautique

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thanks for the reply.
there are lots of dimensions to this discussion
one is the primary benefactor from eliminating petroleum use by consumers would be the US government itself. The US military is the world's largest consumer of petroleum. freeing up the US resources for that use (~4.6B gallons/yr, 12.6 M gallons per day) puts USA at advantage.
do you have a feeling about the potential savings USA would garner or the practical tactical and strategic advantage we would gain if petroleum were reduced or eliminated from the consumer fleet in California (where there are more cars than people) especially in our pursuit of warfare?
I mean, we are the world's largest producer of petroleum, and its largest consumer is the military. Let's get those kids together. :)
this is but one positive development...let's work though this one first. let's hear your feeling.
Coal and Natural Gas ring a bell? Hope so, cuz thats what creates electricity. Oh, and Nukes. BTW, you know the military wont be going full electric any time soon, too dangerous and easy to flip the switch off.
 

Christopher Lucero

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Coal and Natural Gas ring a bell? Hope so, cuz thats what creates electricity. Oh, and Nukes. BTW, you know the military wont be going full electric any time soon, too dangerous and easy to flip the switch off.
guess you are not reading everything posted. here's a repost from earlier that should help you:

This thread was started by Regor with the trolling intention to get a rise regarding 'gas prices'...it is the title of his thread, the very essence of the topic. that is why I suggest a new thread if we are going to talk about electrical supply, not gasoline. the two are far apart, at least in CA. closest they come is related to natural gas, where about 40% of turbines are natural gas fired. All other petroleum use for electricity generation is less than 0.22%

...GAS (gasoline) PRICES - Regor's original troll for response - is not coal nor natural gas nor any of the other sources,so those become irrelevant. also, my point with military use of gasoline is exactly that...they are not likely to switch soon, so the consumer fleet converting is beneficial to the armed forces' greater access to petroleum supply.
go ahead and click on the link "All other petroleum use" for more info.
 

wzuber

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damn. my smart assery did not work. you saw right through it. I owe you 1 gallon of 91 octane.
Interesting how all you people who think your so much smarter than everyone else and try to talk above them in an obvious attempt to have themselves APPEAR superior to everyone turn into disrespectful, pompous asses when another actually challenges them and shows their ineptitude. Carry on....
 

RCDave

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Interesting how all you people who think your so much smarter than everyone else and try to talk above them in an obvious attempt to have themselves APPEAR superior to everyone turn into disrespectful, pompous asses when another actually challenges them and shows their ineptitude. Carry on....
just put him on ignore.
 

94Nautique

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guess you are not reading everything posted. here's a repost from earlier that should help you:

This thread was started by Regor with the trolling intention to get a rise regarding 'gas prices'...it is the title of his thread, the very essence of the topic. that is why I suggest a new thread if we are going to talk about electrical supply, not gasoline. the two are far apart, at least in CA. closest they come is related to natural gas, where about 40% of turbines are natural gas fired. All other petroleum use for electricity generation is less than 0.22%

...GAS (gasoline) PRICES - Regor's original troll for response - is not coal nor natural gas nor any of the other sources,so those become irrelevant. also, my point with military use of gasoline is exactly that...they are not likely to switch soon, so the consumer fleet converting is beneficial to the armed forces' greater access to petroleum supply.
go ahead and click on the link "All other petroleum use" for more info.
I don’t read posts that fail after the first few words. Feel free to do the same to mine.
 

was thatguy

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just put him on ignore.

I considered that after the first few merry go rounds he posted, but I ultimately decided not to.
It’s sort of like a word game for me now to slice into his babbling and extract the single point that he dresses up with endless qualifying babble.
For instance, he says that gas is going up because it crashed earlier due to an artificial low.
But he took multiple paragraphs to say it
The how and why of his contention, however, is not stated.
The fact that this is a residual effect and not a driving factor is ignored, and buried in layers of babble.
The fact that OPEC has us by the balls due to this administration’s stated intentions of attacking domestic production is not mentioned in his diatribe.
As most of you know, and I’ve mentioned many times, rising fuel prices are normally a good thing for me...but this is NOT a normal price rise. This is driven by negative influences that WILL END BADLY for us.

Still, it’s entertaining to read his salads.
 

94Nautique

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I considered that after the first few merry go rounds he posted, but I ultimately decided not to.
It’s sort of like a word game for me now to slice into his babbling and extract the single point that he dresses up with endless qualifying babble.
For instance, he says that gas is going up because it crashed earlier due to an artificial low.
But he took multiple paragraphs to say it
The how and why of his contention, however, is not stated.
The fact that this is a residual effect and not a driving factor is ignored, and buried in layers of babble.
The fact that OPEC has us by the balls due to this administration’s stated intentions of attacking domestic production is not mentioned in his diatribe.
As most of you know, and I’ve mentioned many times, rising fuel prices are normally a good thing for me...but this is NOT a normal price rise. This is driven by negative influences that WILL END BADLY for us.

Still, it’s entertaining to read his salads.
Yep. The economics of inelastic commodities is interesting, complex and debatable. The key is, like you said, to have a clear point, which is rare with him. Hence the reason it’s likely this is another SRyceMac derivative.
 

wallnutz

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Yep. The economics of inelastic commodities is interesting, complex and debatable. The key is, like you said, to have a clear point, which is rare with him. Hence the reason it’s likely this is another SRyceMac derivative.
Pffft, he was picked last for the kickball game.
 

94Nautique

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Pffft, he was picked last for the kickball game.
And on the rare instance when he did connect on the “slow baby bouncie” his leg strength was unable to yield even a grounder back to the pitcher. Hahahaha. The dude is a hot mess...
 

boatdoc55

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And on the rare instance when he did connect on the “slow baby bouncie” his leg strength was unable to yield even a grounder back to the pitcher. Hahahaha. The dude is a hot mess...
Which libby we talking about??? To many quotes to run back!!!
 

Dan Lorenze

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Interesting how all you people who think your so much smarter than everyone else and try to talk above them in an obvious attempt to have themselves APPEAR superior to everyone turn into disrespectful, pompous asses when another actually challenges them and shows their ineptitude. Carry on....

Just like this guy:

 

LargeOrangeFont

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guess you are not reading everything posted. here's a repost from earlier that should help you:

This thread was started by Regor with the trolling intention to get a rise regarding 'gas prices'...it is the title of his thread, the very essence of the topic. that is why I suggest a new thread if we are going to talk about electrical supply, not gasoline. the two are far apart, at least in CA. closest they come is related to natural gas, where about 40% of turbines are natural gas fired. All other petroleum use for electricity generation is less than 0.22%

...GAS (gasoline) PRICES - Regor's original troll for response - is not coal nor natural gas nor any of the other sources,so those become irrelevant. also, my point with military use of gasoline is exactly that...they are not likely to switch soon, so the consumer fleet converting is beneficial to the armed forces' greater access to petroleum supply.
go ahead and click on the link "All other petroleum use" for more info.

LOL. Again, the military does not have a problem with access to petrochemical supplies. If they did that would be a government induced problem because the government controls access to petroleum in this country.
 

Christopher Lucero

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Interesting how all you people who think your so much smarter than everyone else and try to talk above them in an obvious attempt to have themselves APPEAR superior to everyone turn into disrespectful, pompous asses when another actually challenges them and shows their ineptitude. Carry on....
Thats a good one.
"All you people". and then a projection about what 'they' think.
smart assery is not smart.
IF the post was in truth, then it is literally an offer to pay $10 for a gallon of gasoline. It would be easy to provide $10 per gallon gasoline, so that is the smart ass offer. IT stands. but oh, the irony when humor is lost on curmudgeons. "carry on" indeed. 🤣
 
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Christopher Lucero

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LOL. Again, the military does not have a problem with access to petrochemical supplies. If they did that would be a government induced problem because the government controls access to petroleum in this country.
I am already aware of and have assessed your political pov as unworthy of any further discussion. It leads nowhere.
 

Christopher Lucero

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I don’t read
those three words are where I stopped, following one part of your advice. those words told me everything I needed to know.
thanks for the advice in the rest of the message.
I will not be following them , though. I really like diverse views. they give richness to life's experience. thanks for replying.
 
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