WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

Getting out of CA...

spectra3279

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thats the tough question for me... both me and my wife are in jobs for 10+ years. we have kids that just started school. I'd like to do it before they start building relationships/friendships/commitments that will be hard for them to move away from.

those of you have that done it, what was the first step?
Packing

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regor

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No strains, I hear it makes you forget shit and I'm scoring pretty high in that category already 😁 Although, the more I forget the happier I seem, so maybe you've got a good point. 😂
I thought it was glaucoma, not cataracts ??
Just depends on what study you believe in. If I ever get them, I'll be airing on the side of it helps and get back to some long bong tokes!!!! 😝
 

Taboma

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530 the property tax statement Rod and you bring up is BS.

for the amount you pay in Kalifornikstan lets say $10,000 a year you can own a mansion in very very nice area in Texas and Arizona with acreage of land...

and for that same amount paid in PT you own a puny not so nice home in a not so nice area in Kalifornikstan...

and the only thing saving people in Kalifornikstan on older purchases is prop 13 which is alwasys on the chopping block and if Rod and his goons had their way it would be gone already...

the commercial protection of prop 13 is already on the chopping block this next election in November... and residential soon to follow..

I think the commercial side prop 13 does need some revision. I'm not in favor of large property holdings getting passed on for generations to be used as simply investment properties. I think over a period of time, a process of gradual re-assessed value should occur so within a reasonable period the investment properties are taxed at current value. I think Prop 13 residential should only be passed on if the residence is going to be used as a primary, again, not for investment or rentals.

I do plan a to vote against the new Prop 15, only based on how it's currently written, how it's being sold under false " It's only for the schools" pretenses, and how it's passing might have more immediate negative impact on the residential prop 13. Otherwise I believe it's misused and taken advantage of and needs revision.
 

Taboma

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Just depends on what study you believe in. If I ever get them, I'll be airing on the side of it helps and get back to some long bong tokes!!!! 😝
Start now, not WHEN you get them, unless you can link me an article that might cure the borderline surgery ones I'm currently growing --- hand me a lighter dude 😁
 

RCDave

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I think the commercial side prop 13 does need some revision. I'm not in favor of large property holdings getting passed on for generations to be used as simply investment properties. I think over a period of time, a process of gradual re-assessed value should occur so within a reasonable period the investment properties are taxed at current value. I think Prop 13 residential should only be passed on if the residence is going to be used as a primary, again, not for investment or rentals.

I do plan a to vote against the new Prop 15, only based on how it's currently written, how it's being sold under false " It's only for the schools" pretenses, and how it's passing might have more immediate negative impact on the residential prop 13. Otherwise I believe it's misused and taken advantage of and needs revision.
Why? You want business to pay higher taxes? That will only result in lower Net Operating Income and higher Capitalization Rates. Ultimately resulting in lower property values and less capital investments.

Commercial real estate is already taking it incredibly hard in this COVID economy. Why kick them while they are down?

These are the types of draconian changes occurring in the California that are cause for the exodus
 

941Punk

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I heard on the radio not sure if its true but they said 1000 people a day are moving into Florida
People need to do themselves a favor and not move here, it's a god damn shit hole!!!

(unless your wife is hot and likes to wear something like Malibu Strings, then by god, get your ass down here and join us!!)

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thetub

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I think the commercial side prop 13 does need some revision. I'm not in favor of large property holdings getting passed on for generations to be used as simply investment properties. I think over a period of time, a process of gradual re-assessed value should occur so within a reasonable period the investment properties are taxed at current value. I think Prop 13 residential should only be passed on if the residence is going to be used as a primary, again, not for investment or rentals.

I do plan a to vote against the new Prop 15, only based on how it's currently written, how it's being sold under false " It's only for the schools" pretenses, and how it's passing might have more immediate negative impact on the residential prop 13. Otherwise I believe it's misused and taken advantage of and needs revision.
if thats what you think its cool

but if it does repeal or Rod gets his way it will kill smaller guys....

only helping the bigger guys get bigger and monopolizing the market...

if you think rentals are a cash cow and you stick yore hand out and collect rents it aint that easy or if businesses mainly smaller one can afford to pay those crazy rates well i guess so...

can tell you from experience our business went by by anyways, but a repeal and reassessment to us would of killed us even sooner...

one of the saving graces was owning the propertry and low rates we paid...

again bigger investment groups will survive and make less profits on a shit ton of more properties...
smaller guys will all sell out or go away.... guess thats cool...
 
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Taboma

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Why? You want business to pay higher taxes? That will only result in lower Net Operating Income and higher Capitalization Rates. Ultimately resulting in lower property values and less capital investments.

Commercial real estate is already taking it incredibly hard in this COVID economy. Why kick them while they are down?

These are the types of draconian changes occurring in the California that are cause for the exodus

Note I wrote implemented over a period of time.
Why should heirs continue to receive the low appraised value enjoyed by their father or father's father as an example when it's strictly a business investment ?
What other states offer this type of business property tax ?
Aren't commercial and industrial rental rates per square foot relative to what the market will bear in any certain area ?
If so, why should an heir, two or three generations removed, make a higher profit margin than an investor that purchases a property and rents it, versus having it passed down to him or her or them ?
Are you suggesting the heir investor is renting his properties for less ? Or simply making more profit ?

You're looking at it from the business who's renting the property's side, I'm looking at from the advantage an inherited property provides it's owner(S), only to then get passed down to their kids, and their kid's kids, knowing they'll charge the same rent as the market will bear.

If by chance they're going to maintain a current business on that property, then fine, have an exemption for that.
 

Taboma

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if thats what you think its cool

but if it does repeal or Rod gets his way it will kill smaller guys....

only helping the bigger guys get bigger and monopolizing the market...

if you think rentals are a cash cow and you stick yore hand out and collect rents it aint that easy or if businesses mainly smaller one can afford to pay those crazy rates well i guess so...

can tell you from experience our business went by by anyways, but a repeal and reassessment to us would of killed us even sooner...

one of the saving graces was owning the propertry and low rates we paid...

again bigger investment groups will survive and make less profits on a shit ton of more properties...
smaller guys will all sell out or go away.... guess thats cool...

Why, was the property you were renting owned by an heir enjoying the benefits of lower tax assessment ? Were you paying less because of it ?
 

thetub

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Why, was the property you were renting owned by an heir enjoying the benefits of lower tax assessment ? Were you paying less because of it ?
we owned the property that business was on and one of the saviors was the low tax rate we were paying...

as you say we were enjoying the benefits to bankruptcy..

the current rate would have been triple and killed us alot sooner

again business is done and Kalifronia got its way anyways...
 

Taboma

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we owned the property that business was on and one of saviors was the low tax rate we were paying...


the current rate would have been triple and killed us alot sooner

again business is done and Kalifronia got its way...

Were you an heir that had that property passed down ? Sounds like you were continuing to operate it as a viable business until you couldn't, if so then you weren't strictly using it as an investment. If you were an heir and had inherited the business along with the building, then when you sell it, you should do quite well.

I'm sorry your business couldn't compete in this environment, perhaps it will in a different one. But I know plenty of business owners, my son included, who are doing quite well with the services they provide here in California.
So no, not all business is DONE in California, there will always be a need for certain businesses and some will flourish and others will wilt and die.
 

RCDave

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Note I wrote implemented over a period of time.
Why should heirs continue to receive the low appraised value enjoyed by their father or father's father as an example when it's strictly a business investment ?
What other states offer this type of business property tax ?
Aren't commercial and industrial rental rates per square foot relative to what the market will bear in any certain area ?
If so, why should an heir, two or three generations removed, make a higher profit margin than an investor that purchases a property and rents it, versus having it passed down to him or her or them ?
Are you suggesting the heir investor is renting his properties for less ? Or simply making more profit ?

You're looking at it from the business who's renting the property's side, I'm looking at from the advantage an inherited property provides it's owner(S), only to then get passed down to their kids, and their kid's kids, knowing they'll charge the same rent as the market will bear.

If by chance they're going to maintain a current business on that property, then fine, have an exemption for that.
Why shouldn't they? Their family made sound long term investments that benefit a family unit. Why should government have the right to steal (aka tax) more from those that make sound business decisions?

All these higher taxes do over time is increase the cost of every good and service. Higher rents caused by higher taxes just increase the cost of goods produced and reduce the standard of living for all.

Plus all the government will do with the higher taxes is squander those receipts by creating more and more free benefits to the least productive sectors of a society. This encouraging more free riding on the backs of the productive. A never ending cycle downward....
 

thetub

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Were you an heir that had that property passed down ? Sounds like you were continuing to operate it as a viable business until you couldn't, if so then you weren't strictly using it as an investment. If you were an heir and had inherited the business along with the building, then when you sell it, you should do quite well.

I'm sorry your business couldn't compete in this environment, perhaps it will in a different one. But I know plenty of business owners, my son included, who are doing quite well with the services they provide here in California.
So no, not all business is DONE in California, there will always be a need for certain businesses and some will flourish and others will wilt and die.
guess yore right but to some people its not all dollars and sense.

To some the lifelong work and legacy of the business and workers means more than merely selling out and doing "quite well"...

yore sons lucky and yes service businesses may survive for now until they get you in their sites...

or people who work from home will survive or dont pay rent to anyone? or if they do pay rent it will be going up sooner than later...

and why make it favorable for some business and not others ?

why not have it favorable for all business. from manufacturing all the way to a service business...
 
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Taboma

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yore sons lucky and yes service businesses may survive for now until they get you in their sites...

or people who work from home will survive or dont pay rent to anyone? or if they do pay rent it will be going up sooner than later...

and why make it favorable for some business and not others ?

why not have it favorable for all business. from manufacturing all the way to a service business...

If you don't think I understand economic cycles, you're wrong. In 08' I watched $ 13 million in on the books contracts evaporate in months, to nothing. Debts were paid and I retired, done.
You made my point exactly, why should commercial and industrial property rentals favor properties strictly used as investments by heirs ?
Are the renters of those properties enjoying paying less than non-heir owed properties ?
Why not level the field and let the market decide what's equitable rents ?

I do agree, the government will squander the money, I fear the bill will be written without due consideration and add in a bunch of ride-on bullshit, they always do, so it's not something I'm willing to vote yes on.
Perhaps you and RC are correct, maybe it's not broken, maybe it's not being abused, I'm simply giving it some consideration and a few minutes worth of brain time.

But the question I keep asking and wondering about is still so far unanswered ---- are businesses renting properties, being taxed at often highly reduced property taxes, enjoying paying less rent per sq foot ? I'm not talking about a business who owns the property they're doing business on, simply property owned by others.
 

thetub

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If you don't think I understand economic cycles, you're wrong. In 08' I watched $ 13 million in on the books contracts evaporate in months, to nothing. Debts were paid and I retired, done.
You made my point exactly, why should commercial and industrial property rentals favor properties strictly used as investments by heirs ?
Are the renters of those properties enjoying paying less than non-heir owed properties ?
Why not level the field and let the market decide what's equitable rents ?

I do agree, the government will squander the money, I fear the bill will be written without due consideration and add in a bunch of ride-on bullshit, they always do, so it's not something I'm willing to vote yes on.
Perhaps you and RC are correct, maybe it's not broken, maybe it's not being abused, I'm simply giving it some consideration and a few minutes worth of brain time.

But the question I keep asking and wondering about is still so far unanswered ---- are businesses renting properties, being taxed at often highly reduced property taxes, enjoying paying less rent per sq foot ? I'm not talking about a business who owns the property they're doing business on, simply property owned by others.
ok i guess i made yore point. Tax the shit out of everyone residential included primary residence or not...

why stop there give them everything in yore pockets... thats what they are after...

can tell you when i owned rentals , i passed along the savings to tenants with below market rental rates and was able to keep properties in alot better shape and upkeep do to the lower costs ...



cant speak for everyone else
 

hallett21

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I’m not voting for any new taxes period.

But it’s always amusing to me that people are anti government unless a law benefits them lol.

If it were a “fair” system there would be an equal tax across the board.

You’re great grandfather buying a building was a sound investment because it either creates generational wealth or lets your business operate rent free.

Dodging taxes due to a government regulation is just a lucky by product.



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Taboma

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ok i guess i made yore point. Tax the shit out of everyone residential included primary residence or not...

why stop there give them everything in yore pockets... thats what they are after...

can tell you when i owned rentals , i passed along the savings to tenants with below market rental rates and was able to keep properties in alot better shape and upkeep do to the lower costs ...



cant speak for everyone else

We could both rant about taxes and how they're spent, I agree. We could easily venture off into all things wrong, the list is forever and continuing to grow, regardless of which state you move to or settle in. Human nature's demands are insatiable, that's a given. The more people, the more diverse the demands and politicians don't get elected on a platform of stark reality.

I also could be very wrong in my assessment, I'll admit that. I'm not even sure if it's worth pursuing, or any true impacts it might have, mostly because how it stands I have no intention of voting YES on. Honestly, until I read the Prop 15 bill I had no idea heirs were enjoying the benefits of prop 13 as it relates to rentals in general, be they residential, commercial or industrial.

What I do know first hand is, "FAIR" is an illusion, a fictional concept that helps us sleep better.

Also to think that more undeveloped states will learn from observing those with far higher density, forget it, there's a California just lurking behind the scenes of them all, given time and increased population.

This isn't a left or right political anomaly, it's a human problem. The masses rushed to California and they and their descendants all contributed to the fuckin mess we enjoy today.
The masses having fucked over one place, will pack up and migrate to new areas, rinse and repeat. I hoped it wouldn't happen to San Diego, it surely did, I hoped it wouldn't happen to Havasu, yup, big time, then our mountain ranch, surely not there, then the tweakers proved me wrong.

Good luck !!
 

bldrinker

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Step daughters dad is getting divorced and he looks game to move.
Figures soon as I land a job that guarantees our financial future I have to find another one in a different state.
I’m pulling for Colorado wife is pulling for Texas.

Arizona, Nevada (not Vegas area) and Idaho are options.
 

77charger

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Step daughters dad is getting divorced and he looks game to move.
Figures soon as I land a job that guarantees our financial future I have to find another one in a different state.
I’m pulling for Colorado wife is pulling for Texas.

Arizona, Nevada (not Vegas area) and Idaho are options.
My brother went to texas likes it but says the humidity sends some from ca back.we chose az since it still allows us to hit glamis or river but been sticking to local lake and liking it so far.Kids make us stay in the city daughter started high school son graduated last year going to start college or trade school next year.
 

jailbird141

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They tried and failed because it’s not legal. They don’t tax Social Security income in CA either (which is legal and done in 13 other states).
You don't really think that just because they tried and failed already that this idea is dead do you?
 

RogerThat99

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Besides all the non government people bailing on CA, almost everyone that is a State Employee will be taking their pension, and the taxes paid on it, to another state when they retire. Solid Work California!!
 

grumpy88

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Best decision we made was moving last year . Henderson nv might not be are final destination in life but we will not be moving west !
 

mbrown2

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I left for 4 years to AZ.... I came back...must be a masochist...I hate the politics, but I vote, I love the sunsets, I love the beach, I love the Sierra's and I love the deserts.....most states like AZ and TX are changing too...I saw it in AZ when I lived there.....I can do my job anywhere...I been managing teams in Plano Texas for 20yrs....I remember when I used to stay in Addison late 90's as there were no hotels up on Legacy except for a lil hotel in Frisco... Now the N Dallas Tollway looks like the 91 most mornings (pre Covid) and if you move out to the nice suburbs like Allen you are driving a while to get to work in Addison or Plano/Legacy area.. I like a lot about Texas but I definitely see the crowding happening in the DFW area... Austin is like San Francisco, Seattle...very left, very hippy, but its got cool parts being near the lake and although left still a bit like the ol West.....very diverse state....but I choose to be here even if it is far from perfect..
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Taboma

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Best decision we made was moving last year . Henderson nv might not be are final destination in life but we will not be moving west !
I was looking hard at Henderson and that Lake Las Vegas area, but wife wasn't to keen on this summer's rather warm temps. And now I'm reading about Scooter mobs :eek: ;)
 

dribble

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You don't really think that just because they tried and failed already that this idea is dead do you?
Again. It’s against federal law and has been for 25 years. They can’t. Until and unless the law changes they can’t.
 

boatdoc55

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"Get off my Road" 😂
Picky, Picky, just wait, your day will come and you too can experience the excitement of driving with cataracts in both eyes, from the driver's perspective :eek:
My day came a couple years ago. I've been putting it off until the magic age when we finally get to recoup some of that money we've been putting in for years. December can't get here soon enough!!! Wife won't even let me drive any more at night and today on the lake it felt like driving in fog. Doc told me last check-up, go as long as you can but don't hurt yourself or anybody, they're only going to get worse but he'll fix me just like a 16 year old's eye's.
My fishing buddy had them done last summer and he was so excited, the first night when he pulled the patch off that he called me just to say how great he could see again. 😁
 

Bobby V

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Besides all the non government people bailing on CA, almost everyone that is a State Employee will be taking their pension, and the taxes paid on it, to another state when they retire. Solid Work California!!
That's nothing new. Havasu has a boat load of retired cops and fireman. They have there own get togethers once a week / month. Some have been there 15-20 years.
 

RogerThat99

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That's nothing new. Havasu has a boat load of retired cops and fireman. They have there own get togethers once a week / month. Some have been there 15-20 years.
But the dumb Fuqs in California are also driving out the state cubical workers, who would normally never leave CA. Do you live in CA?

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Taboma

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My day came a couple years ago. I've been putting it off until the magic age when we finally get to recoup some of that money we've been putting in for years. December can't get here soon enough!!! Wife won't even let me drive any more at night and today on the lake it felt like driving in fog. Doc told me last check-up, go as long as you can but don't hurt yourself or anybody, they're only going to get worse but he'll fix me just like a 16 year old's eye's.
My fishing buddy had them done last summer and he was so excited, the first night when he pulled the patch off that he called me just to say how great he could see again. 😁

Good news, can't wait for your glowing report 👍 👍 Last eye exam doc gal said I was borderline for Medicare approval and for the most part I do OK, although I do admit, I prefer to have my wife drive at night. I do wear UV protection eyewear whenever I work outside in the yard, which is damn near daily, but it's not prescription. So neighbors walk or drive by and wave and unless I can ID the car, I don't know who it is. My script glasses for watching TV and driving work awesome, without them looking at bright distance lights is like I dropped acid. 😁 a real light show !!! My scary problem is, it's gotten very hard for me to see the rattlers around here, if they're hidden in the shade.
So I make noise, rake under bushes, something to stir them up so they'll reveal themselves --- then I shoot em dead 😂
So yes, life should be awesome when I can see clearly again 😁
 

Bobby V

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But the dumb Fuqs in California are also driving out the state cubical workers, who would normally never leave CA. Do you live in CA?

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Yes I have lived in CA for 60 years and have watched retirees and workers leaving since the mid 90's. Back then you could sell your house that you paid 50K for and get 450K. Take the equity and buy a new house in AZ for 200K and pocket the rest. Same things happening now. The numbers are just different and a lot higher equity.
 

RogerThat99

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Yes I have lived in CA for 60 years and have watched retirees and workers leaving since the mid 90's. Back then you could sell your house that you paid 50K for and get 450K. Take the equity and buy a new house in AZ for 200K and pocket the rest. Same things happening now. The numbers are just different and a lot higher equity.
Just to be clear, I just didn't know where you live.

I feel like I missed the the boat on Havasu. Your boy Newsome will probably screw up my home value on CA, and I will be double screwed. Can you do me a big favor, and stop voting Democrat?

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Carlson-jet

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I'm not reading all these posts.
Places to run are getting far fewer. Make a stand if you have the option.
Where you run to is the same place the people you are running away from are going just like you.
The plague will not go away if you just hide from it. It grows exponentially.
 

rivermobster

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I think the commercial side prop 13 does need some revision. I'm not in favor of large property holdings getting passed on for generations to be used as simply investment properties. I think over a period of time, a process of gradual re-assessed value should occur so within a reasonable period the investment properties are taxed at current value. I think Prop 13 residential should only be passed on if the residence is going to be used as a primary, again, not for investment or rentals.

I do plan a to vote against the new Prop 15, only based on how it's currently written, how it's being sold under false " It's only for the schools" pretenses, and how it's passing might have more immediate negative impact on the residential prop 13. Otherwise I believe it's misused and taken advantage of and needs revision.
Are you listening @RodnJen ? Seems you have converted someone after all!

You've hid your libtardness well all these years Taboma. But your true colors have finally shown through.

Good of you to come outa the closet. I guess...
 

Flyinbowtie

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My grandparents are buried in this state.
My parents were born in California, in 1927 and 1931.
I and my sister were born in California, in 1958 and 1961.
Our family has been here for about 125 years.
I am leaving. My sister and her husband are leaving, her children have already left. My eldest son has already left, and my youngest will when he can.

I do not vote for ANY state level proposition that seeks to take more money out the pockets of the people that earn it. Period.
The state has not been a good steward of the funds they get, and I cannot see the logic in giving them more, which always leads to them coming back and saying gee that wasn't enough. Remember when the lottery was the sold to us as the great savior for the schools? When was the last time an election came around where some political crew wasn't using the "It's For The Children" tag line as they want to tax something new, or raise existing taxes on people, businesses, or dogs, for that matter?
I vote every time. I read every hairbrained scheme they manage to qualify, every time. California spending on education is always in the top 2 or three of the states in the country, and look at the children coming out of public schools. Look at the test scores vs. dollars spent.
There is always a "for the children" tax, there is always a "bad tobaaco" tax, Always.
Prove to me you are good stewards of the money you get before you ask me and the rest of the taxpayers, be they citizens, businesses, or otherwise, to take more money out of our pockets for you to piss away on some scheme to prove your worthiness.
No.
No is the answer. No has been the vote in California, and no will be the vote in our next state. The problem is there are too many who vote in this state to give themselves money, and the rule about Socialism only working until you run out of other peoples money is coming home to roost here in the Late Great Golden State.
Every damn proposition that comes with new taxes feeds the general fund, no matter what the politicians say. Once it hits that account the control on it is gone.
I look closer at local measures, because I know how local government works, and I know how mightily they get screwed by the state. Local Public safety measures get a hard look, for obvious reasons.
I find it interesting that folks who live in California but also own homes in Havasu and ranches/vacation homes in other states tap dance around labeling those of us who want to leave hypocrites.
The dream that was California is gone, folks. The middle class is being sucked dry, and the wealthy are beginning to flee. Former Governor Moonbeam asking where we are gonna go is laughable. Jerry, we are going where you and your socialist/progressive/wanna be communist collection of idiots are not yet numerous as the excrement piles on the streets in the cities you have run for decades. Where felons are allowed to commit crimes and are treated as victims, and the hands of law enforcement are tied.
We are going where there is still hope.
Those who disagree with me, please stay here. I didn't vote for the people who have created the mess you are relishing in, and I sure as hell don't have to stay here with you in the sitnk.
 
Last edited:

Bobby V

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Are you listening @RodnJen ? Seems you have converted someone after all!

You've hid your libtardness well all these years Taboma. But your true colors have finally shown through.

Good of you to come outa the closet. I guess...
He said he was voting No on 15...:p
 

DRYHEAT

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My grandparents are buried in this state.
My parents were born in California, in 1927 and 1931.
I and my sister were born in California, in 1958 and 1961.
Our family has been here for about 125 years.
I am leaving. My sister and her husband are leaving, her children have already left. My eldest son has already left, and my youngest will when he can.

I do not vote for ANY state level proposition that seeks to take more money out the pockets of the people that earn it. Period.
The state has not been a good steward of the funds they get, and I cannot see the logic in giving them more, which always leads to them coming back and saying gee that wasn't enough. Remember when the lottery was the sold to us as the great savior for the schools? When was the last time an election came around where some political crew wasn't using the "It's For The Children" tag line as they want to tax something new, or raise existing taxes on people, businesses, or dogs, for that matter?
I vote every time. I read every hairbrained scheme they manage to qualify, every time. California spending on education is always in the top 2 or three of the states in the country, and look at the children coming out of public schools. Look at the test scores vs. dollars spent.
There is always a "for the children" tax, there is always a "bad tobaaco" tax, Always.
Prove to me you are good stewards of the money you get before you ask me and the rest of the taxpayers, be they citizens, businesses, or otherwise, to take more money out of our pockets for you to piss away on some scheme to prove your worthiness.
No.
No is the answer. No has been the vote in California, and no will be the vote in our next state. The problem is there are too many who vote in this state to give themselves money, and the rule about Socialism only working until you run out of other peoples money is coming home to roost here in the Late Great Golden State.
Every damn proposition that comes with new taxes feeds the general fund, no matter what the politicians say. Once it hits that account the control on it is gone.
I look closer at local measures, because I know how local government works, and I know how mightily they get screwed by the state. Local Public safety measures get a hard look, for obvious reasons.
I find it interesting that folks who live in California but also own homes in Havasu and ranches/vacation homes in other states tap dance around labeling those of us who want to leave hypocrites.
The dream that was California is gone, folks. The middle class is being sucked dry, and the wealthy are beginning to flee. Former Governor Moonbeam asking where we are gonna go is laughable. Jerry, we are going where you and your socialist/progressive/wanna be communist collection of idiots are not yet numerous as the excrement piles on the streets in the cities you have run for decades. Where felons are allowed to commit crimes and are treated as victims, and the hands of law enforcement are tied.
We are going where there is still hope.
Those who disagree with me, please stay here. I didn't vote for the people who have created the mess you are relishing in, and I sure as hell don't have to stay here with you in the sitnk.
Very well said. I hope everyone reads the whole post.
 

Carlson-jet

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My grandparents are buried in this state.
My parents were born in California, in 1927 and 1931.
I and my sister were born in California, in 1958 and 1961.
Our family has been here for about 125 years.
I am leaving. My sister and her husband are leaving, her children have already left. My eldest son has already left, and my youngest will when he can.

I do not vote for ANY state level proposition that seeks to take more money out the pockets of the people that earn it. Period.
The state has not been a good steward of the funds they get, and I cannot see the logic in giving them more, which always leads to them coming back and saying gee that wasn't enough. Remember when the lottery was the sold to us as the great savior for the schools? When was the last time an election came around where some political crew wasn't using the "It's For The Children" tag line as they want to tax something new, or raise existing taxes on people, businesses, or dogs, for that matter?
I vote every time. I read every hairbrained scheme they manage to qualify, every time. California spending on education is always in the top 2 or three of the states in the country, and look at the children coming out of public schools. Look at the test scores vs. dollars spent.
There is always a "for the children" tax, there is always a "bad tobaaco" tax, Always.
Prove to me you are good stewards of the money you get before you ask me and the rest of the taxpayers, be they citizens, businesses, or otherwise, to take more money out of our pockets for you to piss away on some scheme to prove your worthiness.
No.
No is the answer. No has been the vote in California, and no will be the vote in our next state. The problem is there are too many who vote in this state to give themselves money, and the rule about Socialism only working until you run out of other peoples money is coming home to roost here in the Late Great Golden State.
Every damn proposition that comes with new taxes feeds the general fund, no matter what the politicians say. Once it hits that account the control on it is gone.
I look closer at local measures, because I know how local government works, and I know how mightily they get screwed by the state. Local Public safety measures get a hard look, for obvious reasons.
I find it interesting that folks who live in California but also own homes in Havasu and ranches/vacation homes in other states tap dance around labeling those of us who want to leave hypocrites.
The dream that was California is gone, folks. The middle class is being sucked dry, and the wealthy are beginning to flee. Former Governor Moonbeam asking where we are gonna go is laughable. Jerry, we are going where you and your socialist/progressive/wanna be communist collection of idiots are not yet numerous as the excrement piles on the streets in the cities you have run for decades. Where felons are allowed to commit crimes and are treated as victims, and the hands of law enforcement are tied.
We are going where there is still hope.
Those who disagree with me, please stay here. I didn't vote for the people who have created the mess you are relishing in, and I sure as hell don't have to stay here with you in the sitnk.
What's crazy is the AZ I was born in is not that way anymore, it is sprawl to no end. The Redmond Wa. I went through Jr High and High school is not the same. The CA I moved to in 85 is not the same. The Denver I moved to in 95 is not the same. The Il I moved to in 2000 has just been worse by the year no matter how I voted it became Despotic. There is no where to run that the masses will not eventually ruin. I hate this place due to the winters but I do enjoy 3 seasons of it. If there were real mountains I could ski/snowboard I could hack it better. I miss the beach and mountains, I should have just stayed and fought on a level that was much higher than just enjoying the view so to say.
This is not directed at anyone personally but just an observation I feel it was a mistake on my part not really getting out there and fighting for the future generations. It kills me the West Coast has been turned into a place I no longer want to roost due to politics. Such a great place. Where there is a void it will indeed be filled in.
 

RodnJen

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Are you listening @RodnJen ? Seems you have converted someone after all!

You've hid your libtardness well all these years Taboma. But your true colors have finally shown through.

Good of you to come outa the closet. I guess...
It has nothing to do with liberal or conservative. A policy either works or it doesn’t. This one doesn’t.

What does a LEO or Fireman get paid now relative to 1978 wages with a 2% escalation clause?
 

DRYHEAT

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What's crazy is the AZ I was born in is not that way anymore, it is sprawl to no end. The Redmond Wa. I went through Jr High and High school is not the same. The CA I moved to in 85 is not the same. The Denver I moved to in 95 is not the same. The Il I moved to in 2000 has just been worse by the year no matter how I voted it became Despotic. There is no where to run that the masses will not eventually ruin. I hate this place due to the winters but I do enjoy 3 seasons of it. If there were real mountains I could ski/snowboard I could hack it better. I miss the beach and mountains, I should have just stayed and fought on a level that was much higher than just enjoying the view so to say.
This is not directed at anyone personally but just an observation I feel it was a mistake on my part not really getting out there and fighting for the future generations. It kills me the West Coast has been turned into a place I no longer want to roost due to politics. Such a great place. Where there is a void it will indeed be filled in.
That’s the problem, we all like our every day conveniences close at hand. It’s always kind of funny to listen to people gripe at how long it takes to get anything done in Havasu , “like it’s a Third World country”.

Maybe it is Third World like, but that’s the only way you’re going to get away from it all is to move to the middle of nowhere where there is no chance of electricity, Internet and other “basic necessities of life” being built.😊
 

LuauLounge

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My grandparents are buried in this state.
My parents were born in California, in 1927 and 1931.
I and my sister were born in California, in 1958 and 1961.
Our family has been here for about 125 years.
I am leaving. My sister and her husband are leaving, her children have already left. My eldest son has already left, and my youngest will when he can.

I do not vote for ANY state level proposition that seeks to take more money out the pockets of the people that earn it. Period.
The state has not been a good steward of the funds they get, and I cannot see the logic in giving them more, which always leads to them coming back and saying gee that wasn't enough. Remember when the lottery was the sold to us as the great savior for the schools? When was the last time an election came around where some political crew wasn't using the "It's For The Children" tag line as they want to tax something new, or raise existing taxes on people, businesses, or dogs, for that matter?
I vote every time. I read every hairbrained scheme they manage to qualify, every time. California spending on education is always in the top 2 or three of the states in the country, and look at the children coming out of public schools. Look at the test scores vs. dollars spent.
There is always a "for the children" tax, there is always a "bad tobaaco" tax, Always.
Prove to me you are good stewards of the money you get before you ask me and the rest of the taxpayers, be they citizens, businesses, or otherwise, to take more money out of our pockets for you to piss away on some scheme to prove your worthiness.
No.
No is the answer. No has been the vote in California, and no will be the vote in our next state. The problem is there are too many who vote in this state to give themselves money, and the rule about Socialism only working until you run out of other peoples money is coming home to roost here in the Late Great Golden State.
Every damn proposition that comes with new taxes feeds the general fund, no matter what the politicians say. Once it hits that account the control on it is gone.
I look closer at local measures, because I know how local government works, and I know how mightily they get screwed by the state. Local Public safety measures get a hard look, for obvious reasons.
I find it interesting that folks who live in California but also own homes in Havasu and ranches/vacation homes in other states tap dance around labeling those of us who want to leave hypocrites.
The dream that was California is gone, folks. The middle class is being sucked dry, and the wealthy are beginning to flee. Former Governor Moonbeam asking where we are gonna go is laughable. Jerry, we are going where you and your socialist/progressive/wanna be communist collection of idiots are not yet numerous as the excrement piles on the streets in the cities you have run for decades. Where felons are allowed to commit crimes and are treated as victims, and the hands of law enforcement are tied.
We are going where there is still hope.
Those who disagree with me, please stay here. I didn't vote for the people who have created the mess you are relishing in, and I sure as hell don't have to stay here with you in the sitnk.
You are dead on.
My grand parents on both sides moved to the land of opportunity from Missouri to CA around 1920. You could buy 10 acres of land suitable for growing Oranges, hence Orangevale, for $100.
Worked well for everyone, including myself, however, we’ve been watching a change over the years, that we’re not happy with.
So, it’s time to pack and go. There is not a snowballs chance in hell to turn this movement around, so we wish you all well.
We’ll come back and visit, spend tons of money and go home.
 

DRYHEAT

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I just wish everyone in California that is a registered Republican would vote. I know it’s an uphill battle and I’ve heard too many people say what’s the point. It might even open a few eyes to see a closer result. I’ve got a couple of friends in SoCal that say some liberal coworkers are pretty fed up with Gavin. Maybe there’s hope.😊

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again we need to go back to the days when only property owners could vote. Sorry to those of you that are renters.
 

rivermobster

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It has nothing to do with liberal or conservative. A policy either works or it doesn’t. This one doesn’t.

What does a LEO or Fireman get paid now relative to 1978 wages with a 2% escalation clause?
Not enough as far as I'm concerned.

And if your clueless ass thinks taxing me more will end up in the hands of someone that actually deserves it...

You're dumb.
 

RCDave

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Messages
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My grandparents are buried in this state.
My parents were born in California, in 1927 and 1931.
I and my sister were born in California, in 1958 and 1961.
Our family has been here for about 125 years.
I am leaving. My sister and her husband are leaving, her children have already left. My eldest son has already left, and my youngest will when he can.

I do not vote for ANY state level proposition that seeks to take more money out the pockets of the people that earn it. Period.
The state has not been a good steward of the funds they get, and I cannot see the logic in giving them more, which always leads to them coming back and saying gee that wasn't enough. Remember when the lottery was the sold to us as the great savior for the schools? When was the last time an election came around where some political crew wasn't using the "It's For The Children" tag line as they want to tax something new, or raise existing taxes on people, businesses, or dogs, for that matter?
I vote every time. I read every hairbrained scheme they manage to qualify, every time. California spending on education is always in the top 2 or three of the states in the country, and look at the children coming out of public schools. Look at the test scores vs. dollars spent.
There is always a "for the children" tax, there is always a "bad tobaaco" tax, Always.
Prove to me you are good stewards of the money you get before you ask me and the rest of the taxpayers, be they citizens, businesses, or otherwise, to take more money out of our pockets for you to piss away on some scheme to prove your worthiness.
No.
No is the answer. No has been the vote in California, and no will be the vote in our next state. The problem is there are too many who vote in this state to give themselves money, and the rule about Socialism only working until you run out of other peoples money is coming home to roost here in the Late Great Golden State.
Every damn proposition that comes with new taxes feeds the general fund, no matter what the politicians say. Once it hits that account the control on it is gone.
I look closer at local measures, because I know how local government works, and I know how mightily they get screwed by the state. Local Public safety measures get a hard look, for obvious reasons.
I find it interesting that folks who live in California but also own homes in Havasu and ranches/vacation homes in other states tap dance around labeling those of us who want to leave hypocrites.
The dream that was California is gone, folks. The middle class is being sucked dry, and the wealthy are beginning to flee. Former Governor Moonbeam asking where we are gonna go is laughable. Jerry, we are going where you and your socialist/progressive/wanna be communist collection of idiots are not yet numerous as the excrement piles on the streets in the cities you have run for decades. Where felons are allowed to commit crimes and are treated as victims, and the hands of law enforcement are tied.
We are going where there is still hope.
Those who disagree with me, please stay here. I didn't vote for the people who have created the mess you are relishing in, and I sure as hell don't have to stay here with you in the sitnk.
^^^^ THIS X1000 ^^^^^
 
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