GN Boats in 2014????

[Roaddogg 4040]

Just wondering if there has been any movement on the rules for the GN boats to make it a points race and to make it advantageous for them to run next year?

Steve

 

[RiverDave]

Just wondering if there has been any movement on the rules for the GN boats to make it a points race and to make it advantageous for them to run next year?

Steve

I'm not 100% sure what is going on with that. I think Scott is having some discussions with some people about it. I talked to a lot of them after the race this year, and many said they regretted not running it and will be running next year. I'm not going to get into it all, but a lot of that really didn't have anything to do with "points." It had to do with politics etc..

RD

 

[420HOA]

Just wondering if there has been any movement on the rules for the GN boats to make it a points race and to make it advantageous for them to run next year?

Steve

Steve, why a points race ?
I would love to see the GN boats race the enduro again, but why give incentives to the GN boats ?
Just curios :headscratch:
Glenn

 

[CampbellCarl]

I'm not 100% sure what is going on with that. I think Scott is having some discussions with some people about it. I talked to a lot of them after the race this year, and many said they regretted not running it and will be running next year. I'm not going to get into it all, but a lot of that really didn't have anything to do with "points." It had to do with politics etc..

RD

With all respect Dave, blamming 'politics' is a cop out. Let's have the FACTS. APBA won't because xxxxx and I'm not gonna cave on xxxxx because I believe that yyyyy is the right thing to do in this race.

We're adults Dave, we can handle the truth....

 

[Roaddogg 4040]

Steve, why a points race ?
I would love to see the GN boats race the enduro again, but why give incentives to the GN boats ?
Just curios :headscratch:
Glenn

Glenn, from the people that I have talked to the consensus was that the points were important to them especially with another GN race scheduled so close to the Enduro. There are some rules that APBA has that apparently interfered with the Enduro rules. Scott knows exactly what they were. I am hoping that everyone can put there differences away and get whatever differences that they had solved so we can see the GN's run and support the Enduro.

I'm not privy to all of the problems exactly but I do know that they can be fixed. All I'm trying to do is keep it in the forefront so the parties that are involved can get together and work it out soon and not go down to the last minute. Everyone that I have talked to wants to see the GN's race so hopefully everyone involved can pull
in the same direction and get this solved.

Steve

 

[steveo143]

The Enduro has been the final points race of the season and the year's Champion was quite often decided at this race.

 

[420HOA]

Glenn, from the people that I have talked to the consensus was that the points were important to them especially with another GN race scheduled so close to the Enduro. There are some rules that APBA has that apparently interfered with the Enduro rules. Scott knows exactly what they were. I am hoping that everyone can put there differences away and get whatever differences that they had solved so we can see the GN's run and support the Enduro.

I'm not privy to all of the problems exactly but I do know that they can be fixed. All I'm trying to do is keep it in the forefront so the parties that are involved can get together and work it out soon and not go down to the last minute. Everyone that I have talked to wants to see the GN's race so hopefully everyone involved can pull
in the same direction and get this solved.

Steve

Thanks for explaining, Steve :thumbsup

 

[420HOA]

The Enduro has been the final points race of the season and the year's Champion was quite often decided at this race.

So Thanksgiving race is the season opener ?

 

[steveo143]

Yes!!!!!!!!!

 

[Roaddogg 4040]

Thanks for explaining, Steve :thumbsup

You are welcome. I hope that you got the gist of it. We just want to see the GN's running next year and I know that it can be worked out. Hope to see you running again as well (with a new propshaft)

Steve

 

[TEAGUE CUSTOM MARINE]

GN77 will be there

Do we count??

 

[War Canoe]

GN77 will be there

Do we count??

Wouldn't be the same race without you guys...:thumbup:

 

[Roaddogg 4040]

Sure you count Bob but I was referring to the APBA GN boats that they won't let run because of the speed limit deal. I along with quite a few GN fans really want to see em run but with the speed limit deal they can't/won't be able to participate Sad deal for us fans...

Steve

 

[poundsand]

don't worry about fans roaddog!!!!! that's why the course is 12 miles, to pack the beaches to watch 25 boats go in a big circle!!! we have 2 boats ready to run as soon as someone can verify that there will be more then 3 boats in our class we will run!!!!! can someone please post a pre-registration list of who is in? don't need a excuse why it cant be posted

 

[RiverDave]

Sure you count Bob but I was referring to the APBA GN boats that they won't let run because of the speed limit deal. I along with quite a few GN fans really want to see em run but with the speed limit deal they can't/won't be able to participate Sad deal for us fans...

Steve

Steve, to be clear, I'm not sure who or what you mean by "They won't let run." It's not a GN points race.. If someone has a "GN" boat it would fall into the division of Blown V-Drive.. Anybody can enter any blower / turbo V-Drive they want.

we have 2 boats ready to run as soon as someone can verify that there will be more then 3 boats in our class we will run!!!!! can someone please post a pre-registration list of who is in? don't need a excuse why it cant be posted

Teague Custom Marine is bringing 2. Jimmy Benton's Tub of Fools boat makes 3 (if finished, which Bob Teague assures me it will be). GN- 911 our TITLE SPONSOR makes 4.. Plus there is the black jack GN boat makes 5.. Gary H / Justified. Makes 6. Bloodshot makes 7, plus there's a few more I know are coming. There's more then double your 3 boats off the top of my head..

I look forward to seeing the entry of your two boats. Please leave the negativity at home.

RD

 

[Roaddogg 4040]

Dave, first of all I'm not being negative at all and second of all you know what I am talking about with the GN boats. Scott has imposed a speed limit rule and you know that the GN's can't have a points race with a speed limit. All ya had to do is to let the legal GN's run without the speed limit. They can't run any where near as fast as some of the other boats so there isn't a safety problem letting them run. I guess that it doesn't matter now so I'll shut up about it. Best of luck to all the boats this year. Hope everyone has a great time and be safe out there...

Steve

 

[overpriced hallet]

Steve, to be clear, I'm not sure who or what you mean by "They won't let run." It's not a GN points race.. If someone has a "GN" boat it would fall into the division of Blown V-Drive.. Anybody can enter any blower / turbo V-Drive they want.



Teague Custom Marine is bringing 2. Jimmy Benton's Tub of Fools boat makes 3 (if finished, which Bob Teague assures me it will be). GN- 911 our TITLE SPONSOR makes 4.. Plus there is the black jack GN boat makes 5.. Gary H / Justified. Makes 6. Bloodshot makes 7, plus there's a few more I know are coming. There's more then double your 3 boats off the top of my head..

I look forward to seeing the entry of your two boats. Please leave the negativity at home.

RD

There is always all this talk about gn boats but really, lets hear how many real gn boats are actually gn boats that abide by the current gn rules that are racing. Maybe 2-3 the rest of these so called gn boats are nothing but an old era gn boat or more so known as a "ski race" boat. so it would be nice to hear someone that is in charge of the event set it straight. Just come out and say, there is an agenda of our own that we do not care about inviting the actual gn boats to race and have a shot in hell of winning be cause we are egotistical monsters. I personally think this is the case. Whom in their right mind thinks that a 475 cubic inch motor max set up to spin with a certain amount of overdrive or underdrive could compete with a unlimited cubic inch, unlimited induction motor boat and actually have a shot of keeping the same pace for 336 mi? it is just bizarre to me that anyone is even of the opinion that it is do-able. But hey I dont know shit. The "New Gn rules that have been made up by whomever. I am just looking for some clarity on why whomever decided to split the division from actual "Gn"legal boats as far as max cubic inch being 475 with a blower and the naturally aspirated max 525 cubic inch boats? what was the point of that? should we split them up in "Real GN races"? No,I dont think anyone that enjoys watching sprint boat races would be happy with that. So why do it here in the enduro? to fulfill someones hard on? I don't get it. Also kinda wondering why everyone is so quick to say that these boats above mentioned are always considered gn boats? as far as the 77,17,550 and bloodshot. Is it because they used to race gn class back in the day when they were unlimited cubic inch? as those days are gone. And if they were here now I personally would be running a much bigger displacement as would the rest of the crazies that currently run in the leagal class. So until these issues of egotistical attitudes change the way of their thinking I think there will be a absence of the "Real Gn boats. Just my .02

 

[War Canoe]

There is always all this talk about gn boats but really, lets hear how many real gn boats are actually gn boats that abide by the current gn rules that are racing. Maybe 2-3 the rest of these so called gn boats are nothing but an old era gn boat or more so known as a "ski race" boat. so it would be nice to hear someone that is in charge of the event set it straight. Just come out and say, there is an agenda of our own that we do not care about inviting the actual gn boats to race and have a shot in hell of winning be cause we are egotistical monsters. I personally think this is the case. Whom in their right mind thinks that a 475 cubic inch motor max set up to spin with a certain amount of overdrive or underdrive could compete with a unlimited cubic inch, unlimited induction motor boat and actually have a shot of keeping the same pace for 336 mi? it is just bizarre to me that anyone is even of the opinion that it is do-able. But hey I dont know shit. The "New Gn rules that have been made up by whomever. I am just looking for some clarity on why whomever decided to split the division from actual "Gn"legal boats as far as max cubic inch being 475 with a blower and the naturally aspirated max 525 cubic inch boats? what was the point of that? should we split them up in "Real GN races"? No,I dont think anyone that enjoys watching sprint boat races would be happy with that. So why do it here in the enduro? to fulfill someones hard on? I don't get it. Also kinda wondering why everyone is so quick to say that these boats above mentioned are always considered gn boats? as far as the 77,17,550 and bloodshot. Is it because they used to race gn class back in the day when they were unlimited cubic inch? as those days are gone. And if they were here now I personally would be running a much bigger displacement as would the rest of the crazies that currently run in the leagal class. So until these issues of egotistical attitudes change the way of their thinking I think there will be a absence of the "Real Gn boats. Just my .02

Where is Gay Jesus when you need him?

 

[overpriced hallet]

Where is Gay Jesus when you need him?

He disowned me! :cry:

 

[BigSteve]

There is always all this talk about gn boats but really, lets hear how many real gn boats are actually gn boats that abide by the current gn rules that are racing. Maybe 2-3 the rest of these so called gn boats are nothing but an old era gn boat or more so known as a "ski race" boat. so it would be nice to hear someone that is in charge of the event set it straight. Just come out and say, there is an agenda of our own that we do not care about inviting the actual gn boats to race and have a shot in hell of winning be cause we are egotistical monsters. I personally think this is the case. Whom in their right mind thinks that a 475 cubic inch motor max set up to spin with a certain amount of overdrive or underdrive could compete with a unlimited cubic inch, unlimited induction motor boat and actually have a shot of keeping the same pace for 336 mi? it is just bizarre to me that anyone is even of the opinion that it is do-able. But hey I dont know shit. The "New Gn rules that have been made up by whomever. I am just looking for some clarity on why whomever decided to split the division from actual "Gn"legal boats as far as max cubic inch being 475 with a blower and the naturally aspirated max 525 cubic inch boats? what was the point of that? should we split them up in "Real GN races"? No,I dont think anyone that enjoys watching sprint boat races would be happy with that. So why do it here in the enduro? to fulfill someones hard on? I don't get it. Also kinda wondering why everyone is so quick to say that these boats above mentioned are always considered gn boats? as far as the 77,17,550 and bloodshot. Is it because they used to race gn class back in the day when they were unlimited cubic inch? as those days are gone. And if they were here now I personally would be running a much bigger displacement as would the rest of the crazies that currently run in the leagal class. So until these issues of egotistical attitudes change the way of their thinking I think there will be a absence of the "Real Gn boats. Just my .02

The rules this year are a bit crazy to say the least !

Last year the " Green" powered boats finished 10th 11th and 12th position and get handicapped to slow them down while the winning 2.5 F1 motors get no penalty
And now the run what you brung "Green" motor is not Green class :finger

Plus the weight limit rule, yes you can go as lite as 1500 # green. OK if thats the game you build it and see if you can beat the Canoe @ 1830# doing it on the course.

Most green powered boats that work come in closer to 1850 - 2000#s

 

[RiverDave]

Dave, first of all I'm not being negative at all and second of all you know what I am talking about with the GN boats. Scott has imposed a speed limit rule and you know that the GN's can't have a points race with a speed limit. All ya had to do is to let the legal GN's run without the speed limit. They can't run any where near as fast as some of the other boats so there isn't a safety problem letting them run. I guess that it doesn't matter now so I'll shut up about it. Best of luck to all the boats this year. Hope everyone has a great time and be safe out there...

Steve

Steve some guy told you we have a speed limit rule.. Please go read the rules from front back and show me this rule. There is no speed limit rule.

Bottom line is we don't have a GN specific class. We have a blown or turbo v drive class. Some of the GN guys are upset because we don't have a class specific to them. The answer to that is sorry.. It isn't a GN race. A lot of guys have accepted that and are going racing, some have not.

That's the end of story.

RD

 

[overpriced hallet]

Steve some idiot told you we have a speed limit rule.. Please go read the rules from front back and show me this rule. There is no speed limit rule.

Bottom line is we don't have a GN specific class. We have a blown or turbo v drive class. Some of the GN guys are upset because we don't have a class specific to them. The answer to that is sorry.. It isn't a GN race. A lot of guys have accepted that and are going racing, some have not.

That's the end of story.

RD

You say alot of guys.... huh perfect! Well had you guys not made and abortion of the gn class you'd have had 10 more boats out there. 10x400=4000$ so o-well i guess that ain't shit when you have all the big sponsors. These so called Gn boats should come out and get a legal motor if they wanna come out and play in the real gn class and take the name and be considered a real gn and see how they stack up! or more like fall down Then we will see who the real gn's are. But i get it, ain' nobody got no time for dat! they'd have to have a sac.:skull

 

[Roaddogg 4040]

I give up. Dave knows exactly what I am talking about. Andy, sorry that they don't have a GN class again this year so I guess I will see ya at Bluewater in November...

Steve

 

[RiverDave]

You say alot of guys.... huh perfect! Well had you guys not made and abortion of the gn class you'd have had 10 more boats out there. 10x400=4000$ so o-well i guess that ain't shit when you have all the big sponsors. These so called Gn boats should come out and get a legal motor if they wanna come out and play in the real gn class and take the name and be considered a real gn and see how they stack up! or more like fall down Then we will see who the real gn's are. But i get it, ain' nobody got no time for dat! they'd have to have a sac.:skull

Overpriced Hallett, let me type this slower for ya...

It.

Is.

Not.

A.

GN.

RACE...

There is no points for GN Boats..

We have 2 divisions, one for naturally aspirated V-Drives, one for blown / Turbo V-Drives.. You can call us egotistical whatevers... But the fact is those rules open it up to a lot of different people, not just "GN" boats that are currently racing. You have completely missed the point again, and again, and again. If we made it specific to the GN boats, then it closes out everyone except... You guessed it the GN Boats. Or we'd have to add yet another division, which opens up a whole different set of problems that honestly I'm not going to deal with, and I know Scott isn't going to deal with it.


So let me shed some even more light on this. You talk of "Real GN Boats." You are saying that if someone doesn't have a "REAL GN" and go Race against "REAL GN's" to see where they stack up they don't have a sack, and we are crazy for not appropriating our rules and this race to accomodate REAL GN'S...

I have in front of me APBA's propeller magazine. Have you read it? Notice anything about Region 12 in it? Like the fact that we are missing from just about everything in the mag? So you can tell me that we should jump on the coat tails of a sinking ship.. Because certain people are running racing right into the ground in our Region. Or you can look at reality and say "Hey one race is growing, while everything else is shrinking, being disqualified, and generally getting screwed up." Maybe it's time you took a hard look at your "GN LEGAL" boat and all the bitching that has been coming along with it, and ask yourself.. Which one is going to be around next year the "Real GN's" or the "Enduro." I know where I'm heading, and I KNOW where your heading.. I'm good where I'm at.

RD

 

[overpriced hallet]

Overpriced Hallett, let me type this slower for ya...

It.

Is.

Not.

A.

GN.

RACE...

There is no points for GN Boats..

We have 2 divisions, one for naturally aspirated V-Drives, one for blown / Turbo V-Drives.. You can see we are egotistical whatevers... But the fact is those rules open it up to a lot of different people, not just "GN" boats that are currently racing. You have completely missed the point again, and again, and again. If we made it specific to the GN boats, then it closes out everyone except... You guessed it the GN Boats. Or we'd have to add yet another division, which opens up a whole different set of problems that honestly I'm not going to deal with, and I know Scott isn't going to deal with it.


So let me shed some even more light on this. You talk of "Real GN Boats." You are saying that if someone doesn't have a "REAL GN" and go Race against "REAL GN's" to see where they stack up they don't have a sack, and we are crazy for not appropriating our rules and this race to accomodate REAL GN'S...

I have in front of me APBA's propeller magazine. Have you read it? Notice anything about Region 12 in it? Like the fact that we are missing from just about everything in the mag? So you can tell me that we should jump on the coat tails of a sinking ship.. Because certain people are running racing right into the ground in our Region. Or you can look at reality and say "Hey one race is growing, while everything else is shrinking, being disqualified, and generally getting screwed up." Maybe it's time you took a hard look at your "GN LEGAL" boat and all the bitching that has been coming along with it, and ask yourself.. Which one is going to be around next year the "Real GN's" or the "Enduro." I know where I'm heading, and I KNOW where your heading.. I'm good where I'm at.

RD

Good to know you belive everything you read and hear. I guess we will see how much this race has grown. The only thing I know about the enduro is that when i entered a race boat in 2010 and 2012 there were alot more boats then you had at the event last year so this year I will belive it when i see it. Further more I enjoy watching all you guys always barking when you do not support circle boat races through out the whole year but rather just the race you have an oppertunity to make a buck on and get street cred from your buds. So call it bitching call it whatever you'd like but at the end of the day you are just making excusses for you guys killing that division and catering to others needs so it is what it is. This is youre event not mine. And for the record as of today right now my boat is "GN LEGAL" so when things change i will re-evaluate if I wanna be a part of "GN RACING" or not and if and when that time comes I will be out on the river in my boat without #s like a poser dragging all the schiadas around like they're my bitch! so until then good luck with your event.

 

[RiverDave]

Good to know you belive everything you read and hear. I guess we will see how much this race has grown.

I just listed off 7 boats in Division 6 alone.

The only thing I know about the enduro is that when i entered a race boat in 2010 and 2012 there were alot more boats then you had at the event last year so this year I will belive it when i see it.

First year doing anything is obviously going to be down, then dealing with all the headaches from the people that can't stand change, and politics etc.. Lets also not forget that little boycott that happened..

Further more I enjoy watching all you guys always barking when you do not support circle boat races through out the whole year but rather just the race you have an oppertunity to make a buck on and get street cred from your buds.

Define "Support Circle Racing." I don't put on races for a living. I have sent photographers and RDP has covered quite a few of the circle races over the years. As for making a buck, guess who the actual title sponsor was last year? LOL.. But your right, if done correctly this race could certainly be profitable, and in short order. We could also be adding zero's onto prize money pretty easily.

You seem to forget OH, I didn't come out of thin air here.. I support my town and it's history. I showed up about the time that whole program was representative of neither, and actually brought some shame to them both. I put this race on to restore it back to it's former glory. That won't happen overnight, nor will it happen in it's second year, but it likely will happen sooner then later if we keep on the pace, and continue to evolve. I also do this race for YOU GUYS, not for myself.

So call it bitching call it whatever you'd like but at the end of the day you are just making excusses for you guys killing that division and catering to others needs so it is what it is.

Catering to the needs of the race itself, not to a division is what I'd call it. I'd call what you are doing looking after your own interests, and not seeing the bigger picture. While I have tried to explain it to you, it ultimately doesn't matter. That whole program is more or less going to sort itself out.

This is youre event not mine. And for the record as of today right now my boat is "GN LEGAL" so when things change i will re-evaluate if I wanna be a part of "GN RACING" or not and if and when that time comes I will be out on the river in my boat without #s like a poser dragging all the schiadas around like they're my bitch! so until then good luck with your event.

Buddy, you are talking about posers and dragging Schiada's around.. And then bitching that there boats are faster then you in the same paragraphs and it's not fair.. LOL

RD

 

[overpriced hallet]

Buddy, you are talking about posers and dragging Schiada's around.. And then bitching that there boats are faster then you in the same paragraphs and it's not fair.. LOL

RD[/QUOTE]

Buddy, Pound for pound if I had the money laying around to build a new twin turbo throw down efi dealio , I would be willing to bet my ass that your loved schiadas would be getting their asses handed to them all day today and into next week. But I dont, so when that day comes it will happen and you and the rest of the schiada krew will be able to tell me how the crow tastes. Until then i will take my half ass gn boat and race on a budget that would only buy a bare hull not even buffed from schiada. So for now Ill just take what i can get and ride around in a jet boat schiada killin pos eliminator and enjoy the view.

 

[SFV2RVR]

Buddy, you are talking about posers and dragging Schiada's around.. And then bitching that there boats are faster then you in the same paragraphs and it's not fair.. LOL

RD

Buddy, Pound for pound if I had the money laying around to build a new twin turbo throw down efi dealio , I would be willing to bet my ass that your loved schiadas would be getting their asses handed to them all day today and into next week. But I dont, so when that day comes it will happen and you and the rest of the schiada krew will be able to tell me how the crow tastes. Until then i will take my half ass gn boat and race on a budget that would only buy a bare hull not even buffed from schiada. So for now Ill just take what i can get and ride around in a jet boat schiada killin pos eliminator and enjoy the view. [/QUOTE]

Your one of the Schiada nut swingers yourself butthole. You own one! Lol

 

[overpriced hallet]

Your one of the Schiada nut swingers yourself butthole. You own one! Lol[/QUOTE]

That does not count. It only goes 53mph besides it's gay. anyhow congrats on your wedding!

 

[SFV2RVR]

Your one of the Schiada nut swingers yourself butthole. You own one! Lol

That does not count. It only goes 53mph besides it's gay. anyhow congrats on your wedding![/QUOTE]

Lol ok. Thanks buddy! [emoji106]

 

[overpriced hallet]

That does not count. It only goes 53mph besides it's gay. anyhow congrats on your wedding!

Lol ok. Thanks buddy! [emoji106][/QUOTE]

Besides stay outta here this shit slingin is for real racers anyways

 

[RiverDave]

At the end of the day there isn't much if anything I can do about it in 2014 anyways. Both sides of that whole political nightmare are pretty stone walled for whatever reasons.

At some point both sides are going to have to build a bridge and move forward, for both to be truly successful. My advice would be to come out and race the race in 14, and have a voice that matters in 15, talking as a race supporter, as opposed to a guy that sat it out. One carries a lot more weight then the other when it comes to breaking down walls, and building a future.

RD

 

[77'Mandella]

At the end of the day there isn't much if anything I can do about it in 2014 anyways. Both sides of that whole political nightmare are pretty stone walled for whatever reasons.

At some point both sides are going to have to build a bridge and move forward, for both to be truly successful. My advice would be to come out and race the race in 14, and have a voice that matters in 15, talking as a race supporter, as opposed to a guy that sat it out. One carries a lot more weight then the other when it comes to breaking down walls, and building a future.

RD

I would like to see more v-drives in the race as would a lot of us, but I'm not involved in the GN politics. How many GN's are in this years race so far Dave? Weren't there 5 boats last year?

 

[RiverDave]

I would like to see more v-drives in the race as would a lot of us, but I'm not involved in the GN politics. How many GN's are in this years race so far Dave? Weren't there 5 boats last year?

True "GN" legal boats, I think we have 2 or 3 this year (so far, never know how many total until right at race day).. We have a more "GN Style" boats, like Teagues, and Jimmy's that aren't class legal GN boats. The way the rules are written now, it's pretty much unblown v-drive, and turbo or blown v-drives so it should open it up to a lot more v-drives in the future that aren't class legal GN Boats.

The Entry Blanks, aren't sent to me they are sent directly to Scott Schatz so I don't have a list of entries that I can put out there for everyone. If I did I would put it out there.

I just know who's coming from the people that I talk to on the phone or that pm me on here that say they are coming and racing.. We are expecting a larger boat count in 2014 then 2013 is all I have been told. Last year I think we had 28 register, and 26 start. This year if what I have been told is true we are hovering around 40.

RD

 

[CampbellCarl]

Greg Gluck won the overall just a few years back.........but then again, perhaps Greg wasn't in his right mind....

 

[77'Mandella]

True "GN" legal boats, I think we have 2 or 3 this year (so far, never know how many total until right at race day).. We have a more "GN Style" boats, like Teagues, and Jimmy's that aren't class legal GN boats. The way the rules are written now, it's pretty much unblown v-drive, and turbo or blown v-drives so it should open it up to a lot more v-drives in the future that aren't class legal GN Boats.

The Entry Blanks, aren't sent to me they are sent directly to Scott Schatz so I don't have a list of entries that I can put out there for everyone. If I did I would put it out there.

I just know who's coming from the people that I talk to on the phone or that pm me on here that say they are coming and racing.. We are expecting a larger boat count in 2014 then 2013 is all I have been told. Last year I think we had 28 register, and 26 start. This year if what I have been told is true we are hovering around 40.

RD

Good to hear boat count is up. We were one of the inaugural house parties on the river last year and had a great time. We locked in our house for this year, and we're looking forward to the race. Good luck this year Dave.

Jeb

 

[Roaddogg 4040]

Jeb, there isn't a class for APBA legal GN boats in the Enduro. Most of the Gn buys can't afford to build a motor especially for the enduro and then take it out a week or two later and run a GN race. I believe all that the GN guys wanted is a class that they could run against each other with there legal motors. Last year there was a speed limit deal that would preclude giving APBA points to them so they didn't run. Apparently this year there isn't a speed limit rule but the motor differences are just too great for most of these guys to be competitive. There aren't as far as I know any legal GN boats running this year. Sad for a lot of us that love to watch the GN's run but that is the way it is. Hopefully the V Drives that are running will have better luck with propellers and shafts this year and can go out and spank everyone else. Hope everyone has a great race and that they all finish saftely.

Stev e

 

[RiverDave]

Jeb, there isn't a class for APBA legal GN boats in the Enduro. Most of the Gn buys can't afford to build a motor especially for the enduro and then take it out a week or two later and run a GN race. I believe all that the GN guys wanted is a class that they could run against each other with there legal motors. Last year there was a speed limit deal that would preclude giving APBA points to them so they didn't run. Apparently this year there isn't a speed limit rule but the motor differences are just too great for most of these guys to be competitive. There aren't as far as I know any legal GN boats running this year. Sad for a lot of us that love to watch the GN's run but that is the way it is. Hopefully the V Drives that are running will have better luck with propellers and shafts this year and can go out and spank everyone else. Hope everyone has a great race and that they all finish saftely.

Stev e

The title sponsor is campaigning a GN Legal boat..

RD

 

[overpriced hallet]

Greg Gluck won the overall just a few years back.........but then again, perhaps Greg wasn't in his right mind....

So I guess ur suggesting I build a new motor n/a? So the I can run in that division? No thanks if I was gonna do that I'd build one big ass turbo motor and be done with it. But unless I find a money tree to cut down I'll just keep saving my quarters. But thanks Carl for the observation. And if he ran today he wouldn't stand a chance with the current rules.

 

[RiverDave]

So I guess ur suggesting I build a new motor n/a? So the I can run in that division? No thanks if I was gonna do that I'd build one big ass turbo motor and be done with it. But unless I find a money tree to cut down I'll just keep saving my quarters. But thanks Carl for the observation. And if he ran today he wouldn't stand a chance with the current rules.

I would think you would have a chance at winning this year, better then any of the other years before I came along (due to the qualifying). If you actually compared it SXS, I think you would come to the same conclusion.

RD

 

[77'Mandella]

Jeb, there isn't a class for APBA legal GN boats in the Enduro. Most of the Gn buys can't afford to build a motor especially for the enduro and then take it out a week or two later and run a GN race. I believe all that the GN guys wanted is a class that they could run against each other with there legal motors. Last year there was a speed limit deal that would preclude giving APBA points to them so they didn't run. Apparently this year there isn't a speed limit rule but the motor differences are just too great for most of these guys to be competitive. There aren't as far as I know any legal GN boats running this year. Sad for a lot of us that love to watch the GN's run but that is the way it is. Hopefully the V Drives that are running will have better luck with propellers and shafts this year and can go out and spank everyone else. Hope everyone has a great race and that they all finish saftely.

Steve

The title sponsor is campaigning a GN Legal boat..

RD

With respect to the both of you what gives here? Both of your comments look to be contradictory, am i mistaken? Anybody like to clarify? Not trying to start anything just trying to understand is all.

Jeb

 

[RiverDave]

With respect to the both of you what gives here? Both of your comments look to be contradictory, am i mistaken? Anybody like to clarify? Not trying to start anything just trying to understand is all.

Jeb

Well Jeb, I can give you the short version, or the long version. Which one do ya want?

Short version is we don't have a "specific" class that fits the current GN rules as a whole. This would split the field into two different divisions in our race. The GN guys all want to race together. To add a little salt to that wound, the blown GN boats would fall into a division where they would have to run against Teague, and Justified, and Bloodshot, where they are at a Horse power disadvantage with their class legal boats. That then turns into "why would we race if we can't be competitive." (using the word competitive loosely because it's up for serious debate how much or little that handicap actually is in an endurance race).

The flip side of that is the current rules are in fact designed to open up the divisions and classes to other boats that wouldn't be found on a race course throughout the typical season. It is even found in the fact that the blown GN boats would now be racing different types of boats with different teams that they don't see at every race, which is a big part of the Enduro (run what you brung). The Non blown GN boats would be running against other N/A V-Drives..

To here's where it ends up. Boat Racing is dying all over the place, and especially in our region. So the guys come together and say "If you make this rule change, we can bring 10+ boats to your race. If you make it a points race it would be the largest boat count that division has ever had." it is a decent bargaining chip because more boats in a race is generally considered more success.

The flip side of that is though, if the 336 is already growing in size, is it worth making the concession for an instant reward, or do you stay the course and continue to just build the event on it's own merits without some of the headaches (that would have to be explained in the long version)

So now you have to enter what is even the more obvious problem is that a lot of people are talking about what's what, but they never actually read the rules for themselves. Then again on the flipside of that there are guys that read the rules, and take molehills and are making Mt. Everest out of them in order to suit their own agendas.

So moving down to the brass tacks of things one of the major the arguing points it is going to boil down to is the Boat Count this year, which is why it is the only point brought up over and over and over and over and over (and you get the point) by the GN guys. If we have the same 26 show, then we aren't in terrible shape, but we would certainly have to look at what it would take to grow the race in 2015. If we have less then 26 show, then obviously that bargaining chip increases in value. If we have 40 boats show, then the bargaining chip decreases in value. No matter what there is always other ways to attract more boats to a race, but getting a quick and easy ten would certainly be at the forefront of the discussions if for some reason the boat count went low. (I'm pretty much of the belief that we are hovering near 40 right now, but you never know until race day)

So to conclude some of the GN guys just want to go race, and they don't care if they are on the absolute edge of competitiveness, because they realize an Endurance race has quite a bit of attrition, so if their boat is prepped right and it survives there is still a pretty good chance of winning. Factoring in the idea that it's the original long course, and some other nostalgia it is worth entering. Others have decided it isn't worth it to enter the race, and either consciously or subconsciously understand the boat count bargaining chip, so they come onto the boards and bust my balls at any chance they get adding a little negativity to the mix.. If they drive that boat count down even a hair, then they might get their way. Which is why you see some of the off the wall negative posts, that always come full circle to boat counts, boring, and anything else they can come up with. I hope That explains how some technically "GN" legal boats are in the Enduro, and why some aren't.

Now do ya want the long version? Because that goes pretty deep into what is driving a lot of these things behind the scenes, and how we ended up where we are today.

RD

 

[RiverDave]

So to the GN guys is that about a fair assessment of the lay of the land?

 

[RiverDave]

That is good advice Mike. Change always happens from within.

 

[77'Mandella]

Well Jeb, I can give you the short version, or the long version. Which one do ya want?

Short version is we don't have a "specific" class that fits the current GN rules as a whole. This would split the field into two different divisions in our race. The GN guys all want to race together. To add a little salt to that wound, the blown GN boats would fall into a division where they would have to run against Teague, and Justified, and Bloodshot, where they are at a Horse power disadvantage with their class legal boats. That then turns into "why would we race if we can't be competitive." (using the word competitive loosely because it's up for serious debate how much or little that handicap actually is in an endurance race).

The flip side of that is the current rules are in fact designed to open up the divisions and classes to other boats that wouldn't be found on a race course throughout the typical season. It is even found in the fact that the blown GN boats would now be racing different types of boats with different teams that they don't see at every race, which is a big part of the Enduro (run what you brung). The Non blown GN boats would be running against other N/A V-Drives..

To here's where it ends up. Boat Racing is dying all over the place, and especially in our region. So the guys come together and say "If you make this rule change, we can bring 10+ boats to your race. If you make it a points race it would be the largest boat count that division has ever had." it is a decent bargaining chip because more boats in a race is generally considered more success.

The flip side of that is though, if the 336 is already growing in size, is it worth making the concession for an instant reward, or do you stay the course and continue to just build the event on it's own merits without some of the headaches (that would have to be explained in the long version)

So now you have to enter what is even the more obvious problem is that a lot of people are talking about what's what, but they never actually read the rules for themselves. Then again on the flipside of that there are guys that read the rules, and take molehills and are making Mt. Everest out of them in order to suit their own agendas.

So moving down to the brass tacks of things one of the major the arguing points it is going to boil down to is the Boat Count this year, which is why it is the only point brought up over and over and over and over and over (and you get the point) by the GN guys. If we have the same 26 show, then we aren't in terrible shape, but we would certainly have to look at what it would take to grow the race in 2015. If we have less then 26 show, then obviously that bargaining chip increases in value. If we have 40 boats show, then the bargaining chip decreases in value. No matter what there is always other ways to attract more boats to a race, but getting a quick and easy ten would certainly be at the forefront of the discussions if for some reason the boat count went low. (I'm pretty much of the belief that we are hovering near 40 right now, but you never know until race day)

So to conclude some of the GN guys just want to go race, and they don't care if they are on the absolute edge of competitiveness, because they realize an Endurance race has quite a bit of attrition, so if their boat is prepped right and it survives there is still a pretty good chance of winning. Factoring in the idea that it's the original long course, and some other nostalgia it is worth entering. Others have decided it isn't worth it to enter the race, and either consciously or subconsciously understand the boat count bargaining chip, so they come onto the boards and bust my balls at any chance they get adding a little negativity to the mix.. If they drive that boat count down even a hair, then they might get their way. Which is why you see some of the off the wall negative posts, that always come full circle to boat counts, boring, and anything else they can come up with. I hope That explains how some technically "GN" legal boats are in the Enduro, and why some aren't.

Now do ya want the long version? Because that goes pretty deep into what is driving a lot of these things behind the scenes, and how we ended up where we are today.

RD

First of all thanks for taking the time to explain this. With the race coming up here in 2 weeks I'm sure you're pretty busy. I've attended 4 out of the last 5 Enduros since bringing the race back, and tons of them growing up at our vacation place in Blue water. The Enduro has always been THE boat race for me and my family dating back to the early 70's. So you could say I'm a huge fan of the Race.

I'm sure the points I'm about to make have been discussed but here goes.... I believe you should add the current legal GN division for next year. Here's why, Teague,bloodshot,and Justified seem like the type of teams that would race the Enduro regardless of division? Those teams have already built their boats for this race so let them keep their current division, but simply add the legal GN division. If you can't choose between the current Division F(this years rules), and the current GN rules than tough $hit, you don't race. Also, if you had the additional GN legal class wouldn't that make it possible for the Enduro to be a points race again? I think most of us would rather see all the GN boats in one division, but having 2 different class GN's may be a good start. The more I think about it having an unimited GN class and a points legal GN class doesn't sound too bad.

I enjoyed watching the race last year but it definitely needed more boats. It seems like you may be putting all your eggs in one basket by not having the legal GN division. What if 2 or 3 of this years Div. F don't make it next year, and the current GN guys don't have a legal division to race in next year? Seems like you may be playing with fire here.

I can appreciate your point of view with all of this Dave. When you first started promoting this race there were a lot people working against you in many different ways. I can see why you'd rather go it alone. But, the long term reward IMHO would be to bring everyone back to this race, and make the Enduro one of the largest races in our region again. Show the other side who the bigger man is by putting the politics behind you and growing your race. This way you can spend your time doing what you do best, promoting the Parker Enduro.

Jeb

 

[TEAGUE CUSTOM MARINE]

So to the GN guys is that about a fair assessment of the lay of the land?

Sounds about right to me.

"When the Green Flag drops the Bullshit stops!"

JT

 

[BigSteve]

One suggestion for all racers and aspiring racers, put your boats on the water and enter the race. Make the best of the rules, get involved in proactive and supportive way, work with the promoter to update the rules for next year. The most enjoyment you will find is running up and down river, this will be the only day in the entire year where you will have that kind of exclusive access to the water.

Thats great advice :champagne:

Looking forward to the 2015 rules meeting date ?

We never got one in 2014 and only just got the rules a couple weeks ago with no comment :grumble:

 

[RiverDave]

First of all thanks for taking the time to explain this. With the race coming up here in 2 weeks I'm sure you're pretty busy. I've attended 4 out of the last 5 Enduros since bringing the race back, and tons of them growing up at our vacation place in Blue water. The Enduro has always been THE boat race for me and my family dating back to the early 70's. So you could say I'm a huge fan of the Race.

I'm sure the points I'm about to make have been discussed but here goes.... I believe you should add the current legal GN division for next year. Here's why, Teague,bloodshot,and Justified seem like the type of teams that would race the Enduro regardless of division? Those teams have already built their boats for this race so let them keep their current division, but simply add the legal GN division. If you can't choose between the current Division F(this years rules), and the current GN rules than tough $hit, you don't race. Also, if you had the additional GN legal class wouldn't that make it possible for the Enduro to be a points race again? I think most of us would rather see all the GN boats in one division, but having 2 different class GN's may be a good start. The more I think about it having an unimited GN class and a points legal GN class doesn't sound too bad.

I enjoyed watching the race last year but it definitely needed more boats. It seems like you may be putting all your eggs in one basket by not having the legal GN division. What if 2 or 3 of this years Div. F don't make it next year, and the current GN guys don't have a legal division to race in next year? Seems like you may be playing with fire here.

I can appreciate your point of view with all of this Dave. When you first started promoting this race there were a lot people working against you in many different ways. I can see why you'd rather go it alone. But, the long term reward IMHO would be to bring everyone back to this race, and make the Enduro one of the largest races in our region again. Show the other side who the bigger man is by putting the politics behind you and growing your race. This way you can spend your time doing what you do best, promoting the Parker Enduro.

Jeb

Great post Jeb.. And I agree with almost all of it. The parts I don't would take us into the long version.

Ultimately my goal would be the same though and that is to grow the race. At some point I'm hoping to find some middle ground between the parties involved. Not sure if we ever will or not but I'm gonna try.

 

[TEAGUE CUSTOM MARINE]

Bob Teague, Parker Enduro 1981. http://corboatracing.com/downloads/parker-enduro-1981.pdf

very cool thanks for sharing!

JT