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Gotta Love The Media: Arbery Shooting

ToMorrow44

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Gotta love how the media and every elected official jumped all over this case without knowing the whole picture. Seems the unarmed “jogger” wasn’t so innocent after all. Caught on video scoping out a new construction house more than a couple times. The suspects witnessed him do it and tried to make a citizens arrest (this is where this case will be decided: whether they were within their legal right to do so and/or did they use excessive force?). There was a struggle over a shotgun, with Arbery getting in some good face shots, and he was shot and killed. The older suspect in this case had previously investigated Arbery prior to retiring...hmm he had a previous record...? 🤔

*Disclaimer: I’m not on one side or the other, just intrigued to see how this plays out when all the facts come out

 

RiverDave

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I was reading online that he had been involved in a string of burglaries.. He also was running with a hammer?

The two guys that shot him are going to jail though. Breaking and entering under Georgia law requires him to break the seal Of a closed door or window. The house under construction didn’t have them.

RD
 

ToMorrow44

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I was reading online that he had been involved in a string of burglaries.. He also was running with a hammer?

The two guys that shot him are going to jail though. Breaking and entering under Georgia law requires him to break the seal Of a closed door or window. The house under construction didn’t have them.

RD
Agreed, it would be trespassing which I think is a misdemeanor...? That might weigh into the outcome of this case

Looking similar to the Trayvon Martin case at this point.
That’s what I was just saying to a friend...
 

Tooms22

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The biggest issue will be the altercation that occurred. Did it create a situation for a self defense claim?

Everything else will just be facts to push those on the fence one way or the other. Based on information thus far, the suspects came in pretty heavy handed and Arbery brought fists to a gun fight. If I was Arbery, I would have made a major deviation from my path to avoid two dudes with guns. So will a jury think that Arbery escalated the situation to an altercation or the suspects escalated it or that the two suspects just wanted to murder him? It's hard to tell from the video.

I find it interesting that so few of these alleged racial events are clear cut, even with video. You would think that if racism was so pervasive in law enforcement and society, that we would see a lot more cut and dry instances of race based murders. Yet, we always end up with these extremely nuanced situations (Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, etc.).
 

WhatExit?

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Everyone: Watch the video and then let me know what your opinion is.
 

Cole 392

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B1114644-961D-4271-AFCB-43EB0E47B497.jpeg

Here’s his real picture, not his high school yearbook photo that of course the media has thrown out there... yeah this POS was “jogging” just like Trayvon Martin was out getting “skittles” and Michael Brown had his “hands Up” cause he didn’t want to get shot.. right?

These guys lives will be destroyed regardless of the outcome of this TRIAL BY MEDIA...
 
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Havaduner

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When I saw the video the first time, I asked why does an innocent unarmed jogger keep running towards a truck with two guys with shotguns, and then try and take on of them?
 

boatpi

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You do not shoot someone for trespassing, and IF you create the situation like bring out a rifle like this, your defense is very weak. Best to call police, this 2 guys were stupid at best, and may go to prison for a long time for something they may have got into over their head.

Let all the facts come out, this is an ongoing investigation.
 
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SKIDMARC

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These guys took the law into there own hands and are going to pay the price. Right, wrong or indifferent.

If they were doing a citizens arrest what were the charges? Did they have evidence? From what I have read no, seems more or less they made an assumption. I saw the surveillance footage, he was looking around. Didn't show him stealing anything?

Why not just call the cops and wait for them to get there? Why do you feel the need to do a citizens arrests with a gun. Just asking for problems and now they have them.

I know this kid did have a criminal past and seems like one of the guys knew this kid. But still, now look what they got themselves into.
 

DaveH

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These guys took the law into there own hands and are going to pay the price. Right, wrong or indifferent.

If they were doing a citizens arrest what were the charges? Did they have evidence? From what I have read no, seems more or less they made an assumption. I saw the surveillance footage, he was looking around. Didn't show him stealing anything?

Why not just call the cops and wait for them to get there? Why do you feel the need to do a citizens arrests with a gun. Just asking for problems and now they have them.

I know this kid did have a criminal past and seems like one of the guys knew this kid. But still, now look what they got themselves into.

the problem with "calling the cops" is i doubt they would show within an hour.

i was at an RV park over the weekend where they are being ravaged by thefts from local homeless. the RV facility has complained to the police and know where the homeless are living nearby and can physically see some of the stolen items. Yet the police wont do a damn thing about it and claim its "unsafe" for their officers to enter the encampment.

sad and pathetic really. the police have all the time in the world to patrol the shit out of the highway coming into town to generate ticket revenue but aren't "safe" to enforce real crimes.

i will say in the cops defense its probably the local politicains who set the police priorities.
 

Looking Glass

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You do not shoot someone for trespassing, and IF you create the situation like bring out a rifle like this, your defense is very week. Best to call police, this 2 guys were stupid at best, and may go to prison for a long time for something they may have got into over their head.

Let all the facts come out, this is an ongoing investigation.

Week as in 7 Days?
 

SBMech

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Innocent people don't walk through a construction site, trespassing and obviously casing for copper/tools.......

Those guys needed to get him on the site however IMO for it to stick. Tough road to follow at this point...
 

ToMorrow44

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You do not shoot someone for trespassing, and IF you create the situation like bring out a rifle like this, your defense is very week. Best to call police, this 2 guys were stupid at best, and may go to prison for a long time for something they may have got into over their head.

Let all the facts come out, this is an ongoing investigation.
Well he didn’t get shot for trespassing, he got shot because he got in a fight with a guy with a gun. Like Michael Brown didn’t get shot because he stole some cigars, he got shot because he attacked a cop.

When I saw the video the first time, I asked why does an innocent unarmed jogger keep running towards a truck with two guys with shotguns, and then try and take on of them?
Yeah if I’m just “jogging” down the street and these 2 rednecks are standing in the street with shotguns, I’m doing a 180 and going the other way lol. Weird that he ran into the confrontation...

These guys took the law into there own hands and are going to pay the price. Right, wrong or indifferent.

If they were doing a citizens arrest what were the charges? Did they have evidence? From what I have read no, seems more or less they made an assumption. I saw the surveillance footage, he was looking around. Didn't show him stealing anything?

Why not just call the cops and wait for them to get there? Why do you feel the need to do a citizens arrests with a gun. Just asking for problems and now they have them.

I know this kid did have a criminal past and seems like one of the guys knew this kid. But still, now look what they got themselves into.
Actually it was these 2 guys who called the police and reported it. 911 calls here:

I’m no expert and I’m not fighting towards either side, but I think they actually might have been in their legal rights in regards to the citizens arrest...🤷🏼‍♂️
 

ka0tyk

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Innocent people don't walk through a construction site, trespassing and obviously casing for copper/tools.......

Those guys needed to get him on the site however IMO for it to stick. Tough road to follow at this point...
you've never wandered through a construction site? I have, with my kids even. "ooh lets go look at this new house being built." That doesnt automatically make us thieves or better yet deserve to be shot and killed by two gun happy hippies in the back of a pickup truck. Or are you saying that because he was black? What he did/didnt do doesnt matter to them. They're not the police and they're not a judge.


Murder. period.
 

530RL

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If I am running down the street and a couple guys with guns who are clearly not Law Enforcement confront and attempt to detain me, it would be pretty clear to me that my life was in grave danger.

The question is of course; Am I going to die being stripped of my rights while some private citizens attempt to murder me, or am I going to fight back?
 

Tooms22

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you've never wandered through a construction site? I have, with my kids even. "ooh lets go look at this new house being built." That doesnt automatically make us thieves or better yet deserve to be shot and killed by two gun happy hippies in the back of a pickup truck.


Murder. period.
I take it that you don't support self defense laws?
 

RiverDave

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SBMech

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you've never wandered through a construction site? I have, with my kids even. "ooh lets go look at this new house being built." That doesnt automatically make us thieves or better yet deserve to be shot and killed by two gun happy hippies in the back of a pickup truck. Or are you saying that because he was black? What he did/didnt do doesnt matter to them. They're not the police and they're not a judge.


Murder. period.
Never without the intent to cause mischief, honestly. I was an angsty teen once and knew that I was breaking the law by trespassing/stealing materials for jump ramps etc.

Professing to teach your children to wander through a construction zone is an interesting parenting decision. Maybe keep that one to yourself? Especially in this crazy era of sue happy people.

He did not just wander through checking out the build, he looked briefly each time, quickly scouting before he got caught IMO....look at his actions....he was not casually strolling through rooms.
 

EBT531

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For everyone saying "just call the Police", the two guys charged DID call 911. They stated they were pursuing a burglary suspect before the altercation occurred. Not saying it was a smart move to attempt to stop the "jogger" vs waiting for the cops, but at least they called and stated their intentions beforehand vs making up that story as a CYA afterwards. I'm curious to see if murder sticks or if its bumped down given the 911 call and that the guy was a prior LEO. The LEO part could help or hurt depending on how you spin it.
 

530RL

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I take it that you don't support self defense laws?

I certainly do but isn't the general presumption that one cannot claim self-defense when they are the ones who instigated the fight?

And even then, given there were two of them, isn't the burden even higher to use "deadly force"?

I understand there are exceptions, but in this case the shooters were the instigator of the confrontation and at least according to records to date, did not witness a crime? And even if they did, it is petty theft? How does one instigate the fight, for a crime that did not threaten anyone else's life, then engage in deadly force, and then claim self defense?
 

Blue

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Isn't this shit conveniently timed? What do you do when there are no school shootings, terrorists malarkey, mass shootings, because everyone was told to stay home?? How do you find yore pulpit to scream for change and blame Trump/bad guns? You drum up a good ole fashioned Trayvon case of course.

I don't even want to see how this is spun and ends up. Facts will not prevail over rage and emotion on this one.....again

One question tho because I am SOOOOO OVER GIVING A FUCK ABOUT FEELINGS ANYMORE!!!!!!

How many "brother's" have killed white people unprovoked we haven't heard about in the last couple months????

To fucking many...home invasions, crackd out, methd out, car jackin, baby making, we are all fucking rappers, drug slangin stains of fucking society.


Will we hear about any of it? Nope...
Is this new? Nope

Them fellas confronting dude are fucking idiot's obviously but when do people say enough is enough??

Had my rounds with police doing fuck all too, would I have shot the dude? Nope
 

Racey

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Had my rounds with police doing fuck all too, would I have shot the dude? Nope
You should read the DA's letter. There is a possibility that Arbery fired the gun on himself when he attempted pulling it from McMichael's hands.

That being said, it's pretty stupid to enter into hand to hand combat with 2 armed and ready men, not a fantastic idea.
 

Blue

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You should read the DA's letter. There is a possibility that Arbery fired the gun on himself when he attempted pulling it from McMichael's hands.

That being said, it's pretty stupid to enter into hand to hand combat with 2 armed and ready men, not a fantastic idea.
I'm reading it now but the general optics and justice warriors will keep their narrative. That's the fucking problem
 

floatn turd

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Ya,
Looks like a jogger to me!

Clearly dressed for it in both videos.
And only "jogging" after he left the construction that house he frequently visited as seen in the very latest video to come to light.

He 100% didn't need to be shot n killed.
But he clearly was not part of Georgia's numerious black youth jogging community as most media would have you believe.
 

Tooms22

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I certainly do but isn't the general presumption that one cannot claim self-defense when they are the ones who instigated the fight?

And even then, given there were two of them, isn't the burden even higher to use "deadly force"?

I understand there are exceptions, but in this case the shooters were the instigator of the confrontation and at least according to records to date, did not witness a crime? And even if they did, it is petty theft? How does one instigate the fight, for a crime that did not threaten anyone else's life, then engage in deadly force, and then claim self defense?
I believe only one suspect shot.

What is the instigating event in this situation? Creating the situation or throwing the first punch?

Murder has to do with intent. Involuntary manslaughter through first degree murder is still the killing of another person but with differing levels of intent.

So they intended to do a citizens arrest and had no intention of harm? Arbery comes in and starts throwing punches and the gun accidentally goes off or he intentionally fires to protect himself. Or did they intend to kill him the whole time?

Now, the two guys created the situation but who instigated the physical aspect? It's hard to tell but it appears to be Arbery.

Their stupidity in creating the situation may very well be criminal but I think Arbery, by choosing to fight, caused there to be little chance of a murder conviction.

People are treating this as Arbery would've been shot whether he ran away or tried to fight. That's how they justify the labeling of racism and murder. But we will never know what would have happened if he ran because he chose a more aggressive option... fist fight a guy holding a gun.

I think this will turn out as self-defense or manslaughter with the current facts. These two guys created a dangerous situation, which appeared to be potentially legal in GA, and Arbery escalated it by fighting a guy with a shotgun.

All around a shitty situation and tragedy but doesn't appear to be the flat out, racist murder we're being told it is.
 

530RL

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I believe only one suspect shot.

What is the instigating event in this situation? Creating the situation or throwing the first punch?

Murder has to do with intent. Involuntary manslaughter through first degree murder is still the killing of another person but with differing levels of intent.


So they intended to do a citizens arrest and had no intention of harm? Arbery comes in and starts throwing punches and the gun accidentally goes off or he intentionally fires to protect himself. Or did they intend to kill him the whole time?

Now, the two guys created the situation but who instigated the physical aspect? It's hard to tell but it appears to be Arbery.

Their stupidity in creating the situation may very well be criminal but I think Arbery, by choosing to fight, caused there to be little chance of a murder conviction.

People are treating this as Arbery would've been shot whether he ran away or tried to fight. That's how they justify the labeling of racism and murder. But we will never know what would have happened if he ran because he chose a more aggressive option... fist fight a guy holding a gun.

I think this will turn out as self-defense or manslaughter with the current facts. These two guys created a dangerous situation, which appeared to be potentially legal in GA, and Arbery escalated it by fighting a guy with a shotgun.

All around a shitty situation and tragedy but doesn't appear to be the flat out, racist murder we're being told it is.
The instigating event is attempting to detain an individual while brandishing weapons.

I’d agree that this is manslaughter and not murder.

I also think had the victim been legally carrying and killed both the two who instigated the confrontation, he would clearly be able to justify all the legal components of self defense.

But as you know all jury trials are a crap shoot.

in either event I wouldn’t want to be those two guys living in Georgia. Both sides down there have a unique ability to implement street justice.
 

was thatguy

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The instigating event is attempting to detain an individual while brandishing weapons.

I’d agree that this is manslaughter and not murder.

I also think had the victim been legally carrying and killed both the two who instigated the confrontation, he would clearly be able to justify all the legal components of self defense.
I’d bet you would think differently if a jogger came over your wall, or up your driveway.

My belief is that you would instigate a confrontation.
 

ToMorrow44

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I certainly do but isn't the general presumption that one cannot claim self-defense when they are the ones who instigated the fight?

And even then, given there were two of them, isn't the burden even higher to use "deadly force"?

I understand there are exceptions, but in this case the shooters were the instigator of the confrontation and at least according to records to date, did not witness a crime? And even if they did, it is petty theft? How does one instigate the fight, for a crime that did not threaten anyone else's life, then engage in deadly force, and then claim self defense?
Yes they did watch him commit (what they thought) was a crime, the son was standing across the street on the phone with 911 when Arbery bolted from the house. But regardless, the video appears to show Arbery instigate the fight. Honestly, Arbery was beating the shit outta the one dude trying to get his gun.

Look, if these 2 dudes wanted to murder this guy, they wouldn’t have waited until getting their face smashed in before shooting...
 

PlanB

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Yes they did watch him commit (what they thought) was a crime, the son was standing across the street on the phone with 911 when Arbery bolted from the house. But regardless, the video appears to show Arbery instigate the fight. Honestly, Arbery was beating the shit outta the one dude trying to get his gun.

Look, if these 2 dudes wanted to murder this guy, they wouldn’t have waited until getting their face smashed in before shooting...
...and open carry in Georgia is legal with a permit. The shooters should have waited for LE, but I think Arbery running towards a person with a shotgun, and attacking him is what escalated the situation. I don't see how a premeditated murder charge sticks.
 

Mikes56

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Once again, if he would have done as he was told, by the man with the gun, he'd still be alive. When you rush a man with a gun, he's going to think you're trying to take it away from him and use it against you. The man with the gun is going to shoot you. Black or white, it doesn't matter, but it sure seems that the blacks keep making the wrong decision. Or is it just me?
 

Justfishing

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I believe only one suspect shot.

What is the instigating event in this situation? Creating the situation or throwing the first punch?

Murder has to do with intent. Involuntary manslaughter through first degree murder is still the killing of another person but with differing levels of intent.

So they intended to do a citizens arrest and had no intention of harm? Arbery comes in and starts throwing punches and the gun accidentally goes off or he intentionally fires to protect himself. Or did they intend to kill him the whole time?

Now, the two guys created the situation but who instigated the physical aspect? It's hard to tell but it appears to be Arbery.

Their stupidity in creating the situation may very well be criminal but I think Arbery, by choosing to fight, caused there to be little chance of a murder conviction.

People are treating this as Arbery would've been shot whether he ran away or tried to fight. That's how they justify the labeling of racism and murder. But we will never know what would have happened if he ran because he chose a more aggressive option... fist fight a guy holding a gun.

I think this will turn out as self-defense or manslaughter with the current facts. These two guys created a dangerous situation, which appeared to be potentially legal in GA, and Arbery escalated it by fighting a guy with a shotgun.

All around a shitty situation and tragedy but doesn't appear to be the flat out, racist murder we're being told it is.

When i first heard of this it sounded as 2 men shot a guy that was claimed to be jogging.

The facts seem to be that the guys were in legal possession of guns. That there may be some questions of did they have a right to detain abrey given what the crime is.

I see they attempted to detain abrey. He had choices. He could have fled . He could have said that he would wait for the police. Instead he choose to go after the gun. I think it is going to come down how the jury feels about the struggle for the gun.
 
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Looking Glass

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When i first heard of this it sounded as 2 guy shot a guy that was claimed to be jogging.

The facts seem to be that the guys were in legal possession of guns. That there may be some questions of did they have a right to detain abrey given what to the crime he is accused of.

I see they attempted to detain abrey. He had choices. He could have fled . He could have said that he would wait for the police. Instead he choose to go after the gun. I think it is going to come down how the jury feels about the struggle for the gun.

Maybe I did miss something here as just quickly read posts here. The Father and Son did flee the scene= Correct? If so, going to be a tough Sell.
 

ToMorrow44

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Maybe I did miss something here as just quickly read posts here. The Father and Son did flee the scene= Correct? If so, going to be a tough Sell.
No. They’re the ones who called the police prior to the confrontation. They were trying to make a citizens arrest on him until police arrived.
 

Sleek-Jet

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For everyone saying "just call the Police", the two guys charged DID call 911. They stated they were pursuing a burglary suspect before the altercation occurred. Not saying it was a smart move to attempt to stop the "jogger" vs waiting for the cops, but at least they called and stated their intentions beforehand vs making up that story as a CYA afterwards. I'm curious to see if murder sticks or if its bumped down given the 911 call and that the guy was a prior LEO. The LEO part could help or hurt depending on how you spin it.
Except there wasn't a burglary...

These two fuck sticks deserve to be tried for their actions.
 

Justfishing

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Maybe I did miss something here as just quickly read posts here. The Father and Son did flee the scene= Correct? If so, going to be a tough Sell.
I was talking of abrey. I have not followed this and have only seem brief clips. I did not know they left. You have to stay and render aid
 

WhatExit?

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I'm surprised by a number of the posts here. But this is the internet and this is a forum so there's that.

When I see 2 armed guys in a pickup truck with one standing in the back, that's bound to lead to something very bad which is what happened.

And the DA recused herself too after not taking action.

This is a shit show.

While going into a home under construction is trespassing at the least, was it their business to go after this guy?

How do they justify carrying guns in a truck like hunters shooting wildlife on the range?
 

Looking Glass

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Now days the Good Thing OR the Bad Thing is there is ALWAYS someone around with a Camera filming what went on.
 

bonesfab

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I read somewhere that there were previous break ins in the hood. And had it on video. The cops probably didn't do anything previously. residents pissed. Like some one else said, Charge a guy with a gun and see what happens. If they wanted to kill him why not just open fire?
 

Carlson-jet

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Never attack a man with a loaded scatter gun. You just might not win in that situation as proven in this case
All the rest will be politics of the 12 jurors.
2 people fucked up and third will now most likely spend his last days in prison for nothing more than being a bystander.
How they are trying to implicate the cameraman is beyond me.

And yes I have gone to new construction builds to check it out. The thing is I never JOGGED LOL, away.
No winners here.
Lesson is, don't be the Greatest American Hero. Derp.
 

rrrr

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So Arbery "attacked" the man holding the shotgun? That's ridiculous. It's too bad the beginning of the struggle isn't on the video, because there's no doubt in my mind that shotgun was stuck in his torso as he tried to avoid the man. It'll be interesting to see if the GBI can clean up the audio and determine what was said. It certainly wasn't "Stop, stop, we want to talk to you" as the two men claimed.

A shot was fired before the struggle came into view. Some posts above have attempted to rationalize the fact the two men killed an obviously unarmed man.

This happened 2½ months ago, and the older shooter was a retired cop and investigator with the county DA's office. That's one of the reasons the GBI took over the case, and both men were arrested within a week of the GBI's involvement.

There are several comments above about trespassing, theft, etc., which are lame to the nth degree. I've probably walked into fifty houses under construction in my life. Everyone does it.

The two vigilantes had no legal right to confront Arbery with guns. That was the first felony. He obviously was unarmed, and he obviously wasn't carrying stolen property. The shooters claimed they accosted him because some burglaries had occurred in the neighborhood, but there has been no corroboration by the police those burglaries occurred.

Most importantly, what danger did Arbery represent? What could he have done in the seven seconds he is out of view in the video that gave the vigilantes a reason to engage Arbery using deadly force?

Considering that question further, while Arbery struggled with the older man holding the shotgun, he never gained control of it, and had lost his grip on the gun and was four feet away from it when the other man fired two shots and killed him.

Again, what gave the men any legal authority to shoot him? They armed themselves and initiated the confrontation. They were not on their own property. Arbery posed no threat to the men.

If this scenario was presented on a concealed carry test, how many of you that are licensed and have commented above would agree their actions were proper and within the bounds of CC law? I doubt I'll get an honest answer.

This was murder, straight up. That they were not charged until months passed and the GBI had to take over the case to do it is disgusting.
 
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rrrr

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How they are trying to implicate the cameraman is beyond me.

He can be charged with the same crimes, because like Texas, Georgia has a law that says all persons involved in the commission of a felony are legally responsible for the actions of all participants. This includes murders that occur during the commission of other crimes.

Because he was aware of the intentions of the two men to illegally detain Arbery, he can be found guilty of the same crimes they are charged with, including murder.

In Texas, there have been multiple executions of accomplices to murder over the years. Simply driving the getaway car can result in a death sentence.

It'll take a while to happen, but I fully expect the guy to be charged. He'll then get a plea bargain offer from the state to flip on the other two. That'll help secure their murder conviction.


Georgia Law on When a Person is a Party to a Crime
§16-2-20 state every person concerned in the commission of a crime is a party thereto and may be charged with and convicted of commission of the crime. ... Intentionally advises, encourages, hires, counsels, or procures another to commit the crime.
 
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