Governments greatest failure in our lifetimes....

[Uncle Dave]

ABC strikes again, FAKE NEWS. The Defense Intelligence Agency refutes report, says no such assessment exists.

Is the truth then that the most heavily funded intelligence services on the planet DID NOT know what was going on?

Many guys have said government is reactive vs proactive.

Sort of, we pay incredible sums of money to build massive agencies to spy on nations and our own citizens, as well have trillions preparing for war which always seems to be popping up someplace.


UD

 

[FreeBird236]

Is the truth then that the most heavily funded intelligence services on the planet DID NOT know what was going on.


UD

It may mean, that it was not a clear cut report that was just ignored.

 

[Uncle Dave]

It may mean, that it was not a clear cut report that was just ignored.

We're going to find out sooner or later who new what.

The number of dead Americans is staggering I think we're at or past 10K surpassing multiple war totals.

It does seem clear to me we wasted time we could have used for preparing medical supplies and tests.

UD

 

[Racey]

Why do you say that ? (just curious) Seems to me satellite picts of dead bodies being hidden/ not reported are pretty motivating.

Since we knew -why wait so long to act?

Did you read the article?

"The coronavirus first appeared in the President’s Daily Brief of intelligence matters in early January, according to ABC News. "


China travel restriction that was met with massive resistance from the media and democrats happened Jan 31, which probably took a week of analysis before being brought to the public. So they acted fairly quickly it would seem.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Did you read the article?

"The coronavirus first appeared in the President’s Daily Brief of intelligence matters in early January, according to ABC News. "


China travel restriction that was met with massive resistance from the media and democrats happened Jan 31, which probably took a week of analysis before being brought to the public. So they acted fairly quickly it would seem.

Yup. I read that. The media resistance to the travel bans was laughably partisan (as usual)

One of the many questions still stands how we missed how bad it was in China, then we missed how bad it was in Europe.

The scenarios are all bad.

If we didnt know then why the hell not? We paid the bill upfront to know.

IF we did know why didnt we act sooner?

Which bad scenario is it?


UD

 

[FreeBird236]

We're going to find out sooner or later who new what.

The number of dead Americans is staggering I think we're at or past 10K surpassing multiple war totals.

It does seem clear to me we wasted time we could have used for preparing medical supplies and tests.

UD

All deaths are tragic, but comparing this to war totals is meaningless. The totals are probably being exaggerated because almost all deaths are being counted as covid deaths and they still are about one third of a normal flu season. I'm sure the totals will continue to grow, but the response to this pandemic has been very good over all considering. Maybe this is the wake up call we needed to bring our supply chains home. PPE supplies were in bad supply at first, but are pretty good now and no documented cases of an american citizen needing a ventilator and not getting one. I wonder if we lost any patients by not getting hydroxychlooquine, because of liberal media bias?

 

[Uncle Dave]

All deaths are tragic, but comparing this to war totals is meaningless. The totals are probably being exaggerated because almost all deaths are being counted as covid deaths and they still are about one third of a normal flu season. I'm sure the totals will continue to grow, but the response to this pandemic has been very good over all considering. Maybe this is the wake up call we needed to bring our supply chains home. PPE supplies were in bad supply at first, but are pretty good now and no documented cases of an american citizen needing a ventilator and not getting one. I wonder if we lost any patients by not getting hydroxychlooquine, because of liberal media bias?

What is a good death comparison to give some scope to the issue? We've blown past 9/11 3X
There probably is exaggeration.
With the HDQQ is Fauci part of the liberal media bias?
Who told the Don this was "like the flu"? Did he make that up? Or was he told that by our guys early on?

It looks like South Korea and Japan did a better job than we did with testing.
testing is twofold - taking the test and delivering a result.

UD

 

[Racey]

Yup. I read that. The media resistance to the travel bans was laughably partisan (as usual)

One of the many questions still stands how we missed how bad it was in China, then we missed how bad it was in Europe.

The scenarios are all bad.

If we didnt know then why the hell not? We paid the bill upfront to know.

IF we did know why didnt we act sooner?

Which bad scenario is it?


UD

Hindsight is 20/20....

South Korea didn't do a better job of testing, their drive through tests had an error rate of 1 in 10, 10% incorrect

Since there were far more people that didn't have the virus, than did, the 10% error rate leads to a scenario where the false positives overwhelm the true positives, and 90%+ of people who tested positive actually DID NOT HAVE THE VIRUS. How is that useful to anyone?


If Chamberlain had of attacked Hitler in 1938 instead of waiting for Hitler to invade Poland we could have saved 60 million lives in WWII.....

 

[FreeBird236]

What is a good death comparison to give some scope to the issue? We've blown past 9/11 3X
There probably is exaggeration.
With the HDQQ is Fauci part of the liberal media bias?
Who told the Don this was "like the flu"? Did he make that up? Or was he told that by our guys early on?

It looks like South Korea and Japan did a better job than we did with testing.
testing is twofold - taking the test and delivering a result.

UD

I don't know where you're going with the flu question, the flu can certainly be worse in some cases than this virus. (Spanish Flu). As to Fauci he's one man and has one opinion, I don't disregard his knowledge, but his views shouldn't be taken as gospel. As far as testing, are you aware of the testing capabilities the CDC had when this started, vs the system that has been created in just a few weeks. The testing is ramping up and has more of problem with distribution than the actual capabilities of the system. Antibody testing is likely to start in the next few weeks. Some of what has been achieved by american scientists in such a short time is extraordinary, but still not fast enough not to blame the administration. I'm sure you are aware So. Korea has 50 million people.

 

[Danger Dave]

I have nothing of value to contribute but felt I should post anyways.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Hindsight is 20/20....

South Korea didn't do a better job of testing, their drive through tests had an error rate of 1 in 10, 10% incorrect

Since there were far more people that didn't have the virus, than did, the 10% error rate leads to a scenario where the false positives overwhelm the true positives, and 90%+ of people who tested positive actually DID NOT HAVE THE VIRUS. How is that useful to anyone?


If Chamberlain had of attacked Hitler in 1938 instead of waiting for Hitler to invade Poland we could have saved 60 million lives in WWII.....

Always eager to see every bit of data I can find, can you forward that?

In terms of per capita testing I saw a piece of data that showed something like this (trying to dig it up)

South Korea, and both countries detected their first case of Covid-19 on the same day in Jan.
On 25 March the US had tested around one in 780 people,
Compared with South Korea which had tested like 1 out of 150 people.

Of course we have more people but they seemed to do bette per capita that we did.

If I look at the johns Hopkins data SK has slowed the spread dramatically adding something like 1K cases where we went through the roof adding 200K in the same timeframe.

Its hard to get solid believable data from anywhere so Im open to all of it.

I doubt Britain could have averted WWII regardless of when they decided it was time to declare war.

UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

I don't know where you're going with the flu question, the flu can certainly be worse in some cases than this virus. (Spanish Flu). As to Fauci he's one man and has one opinion, I don't disregard his knowledge, but his views shouldn't be taken as gospel. As far as testing, are you aware of the testing capabilities the CDC had when this started, vs the system that has been created in just a few weeks. The testing is ramping up and has more of problem with distribution than the actual capabilities of the system. Antibody testing is likely to start in the next few weeks. Some of what has been achieved by american scientists in such a short time is extraordinary, but still not fast enough not to blame the administration. I'm sure you are aware So. Korea has 50 million people.

I really just want to know who told who what, and when?

Why didnt we see this coming with all the money we spend on intel?

Is the media to blame for not getting enough HCDQQ as you say ? Does it even matter ?

True Fauci is one man, thats been handpicked by the Don and he doesnt seem to think it conclusively works based on what he's seen .

when did the CDC start working on the problem ?

So you are happy with our response all along and would give our entire gov an A+ on how this has been handled?

UD

 

[530RL]

I really just want to know who told who what, and when?

Why didnt we see this coming with all the money we spend on intel?

Is the media to blame for not getting enough HCDQQ as you say ? Does it even matter ?

True Fauci is one man, thats been handpicked by the Don and he doesnt seem to think it conclusively works based on what he's seen .

when did the CDC start working on the problem ?

So you are happy with our response all along and would give our entire gov an A+ on how this has been handled?

UD

Donald gets an A+.

The rest of government sucks and it is not the fault of the guy who has been in charge of it for over three years..........

 

[Racey]

Always eager to see every bit of data I can find, can you forward that?

In terms of per capita testing I saw a piece of data that showed something like this (trying to dig it up)

South Korea, and both countries detected their first case of Covid-19 on the same day in Jan.
On 25 March the US had tested around one in 780 people,
Compared with South Korea which had tested like 1 out of 150 people.

Of course we have more people but they seemed to do bette per capita that we did.

If I look at the johns Hopkins data SK has slowed the spread dramatically adding something like 1K cases where we went through the roof adding 200K in the same timeframe.

Its hard to get solid believable data from anywhere so Im open to all of it.

I doubt Britain could have averted WWII regardless of when they decided it was time to declare war.

UD

The problem with mass testing, especially for something new like Covid-19 strain of Corona virus, is that the test do not yet have high sensitivity or specificity. Flu tests have between 90-95% sensitivity, early Corona tests were much lower than this as it has not had the sheer volume of refinement. Even the current ones are nowhere near perfect. Sensitivity refers to the percentage of subjects that test positive, that are actually positive, speficity refers to the percentage of subjects that test negative, that are actually negative....

If we focus on sensitivity, lets say we that early on it's true that 1% of a population actually has the virus, and we use a test with 90% sensitivity. Lets say there are 100,000 people in the city, and we test 20% of them at drive through testing. So 20,000 tests, 10 percent are false positive, that is 2,000 positives, plus 1% actual positive (200) is 2,200 positive results..... Now it looks like we have 10,000+ people positive across the entire 100k population per statistical evidence right? Because we tested way too many people and the error rate of the test false positives outweighed the actual true positives.


This is why is it important to only test subjects WITH SYMPTOMS, when test sensitivity is below a very high threshold.

I saw reports that the sensitivity was at 40% but lets just assume 90 to be safe... You can see how that leads to massively erroneous data. This also offers explanation as to why their death rate is so much lower.... So many more false positive tests.

For this reason it's very difficult to compare numbers between places because we have to take into account the actual groups that were tested.

Here is some information, there are plenty of others about Sensitivity and Specificity, and how the statistics can be skewed massively by not filtering test subjects before even given them a test.

Bayes’ Rule, Decision Making, And Containing COVID-19 With Unreliable Diagnostic Tests

How false-negatives in diagnostic testing leads to release of infected people, and why extreme containment measures have been implemented.

towardsdatascience.com

 

[Uncle Dave]

Thanks Racey - I'll absorb

UD

 

[530RL]

The problem with mass testing, especially for something new like Covid-19 strain of Corona virus, is that the test do not yet have high sensitivity or specificity. Flu tests have between 90-95% sensitivity, early Corona tests were much lower than this as it has not had the sheer volume of refinement. Even the current ones are nowhere near perfect. Sensitivity refers to the percentage of subjects that test positive, that are actually positive, speficity refers to the percentage of subjects that test negative, that are actually negative....

If we focus on sensitivity, lets say we that early on it's true that 1% of a population actually has the virus, and we use a test with 90% sensitivity. Lets say there are 100,000 people in the city, and we test 20% of them at drive through testing. So 20,000 tests, 10 percent are false positive, that is 2,000 positives, plus 1% actual positive (200) is 2,200 positive results..... Now it looks like we have 10,000+ people positive across the entire 100k population per statistical evidence right? Because we tested way too many people and the error rate of the test false positives outweighed the actual true positives.


This is why is it important to only test subjects WITH SYMPTOMS, when test sensitivity is below a very high threshold.

I saw reports that the sensitivity was at 40% but lets just assume 90 to be safe... You can see how that leads to massively erroneous data. This also offers explanation as to why their death rate is so much lower.... So many more false positive tests.

For this reason it's very difficult to compare numbers between places because we have to take into account the actual groups that were tested.

Here is some information, there are plenty of others about Sensitivity and Specificity, and how the statistics can be skewed massively by not filtering test subjects before even given them a test.

Bayes’ Rule, Decision Making, And Containing COVID-19 With Unreliable Diagnostic Tests

How false-negatives in diagnostic testing leads to release of infected people, and why extreme containment measures have been implemented.

towardsdatascience.com

Sensitivity, or false positives are an issue in all types of medical testing to this day.

The fact remains that even with your example of a 10% false positive rate, quarantining those people who are false positives has less of a serious effect on the economy than mass economic shutdowns due to a lack of testing capability.

The economic numbers in S. Korea, Taiwan and Singapore compared to countries with lower testing rates per capita and as a result higher shut downs of the economy bear that out.

Higher testing per capita especially when combined with appropriate filtering as has been done in other countries yields better health and economic outcomes than has the strategy taken by US leadership.

 

[Racey]

Sensitivity, or false positives are an issue in all types of medical testing to this day.

The fact remains that even with your example of a 10% false positive rate, quarantining those people who are false positives has less of a serious effect on the economy than mass economic shutdowns due to a lack of testing capability.

The economic numbers in S. Korea, Taiwan and Singapore compared to countries with lower testing rates per capita and as a result higher shut downs of the economy bear that out.

Higher testing per capita especially when combined with appropriate filtering as has been done in other countries yields better health and economic outcomes than has the strategy taken by US leadership.

And it would be a lot easier to seal off and contain Southern California (about the same size a S Korea) than it would be to do the entire United States....

It's a disingenuous comparison. Most of them are since all the numbers have been skewed in different ways all over the world

The CDC here has issued directives to code for Covid even if it's not the underlying cause, or even without a conclusive test.

US Hospitals normal revenue streams are shut off, Government says it will pay for all covid costs for uninsured, insurance companies agreed to pay for their customers. Hospitals are going along because it means they will at least get guaranteed payment, even if the person had kidney problems, or other complications that actually resulted in their death, Especially among uninsured where they would normally nothing as payment.

We are getting inflated death numbers here for monetarily motivated reasons, who's to say in other countries they aren't giving numbers that are the other direction as to say "Look at how great we have done", especially government run systems like Korea, especially in cultures like theirs where the appearance of success is almost paramount to the reality of success.

US system has an incentive to show higher numbers, Other systems have incentives to show lower numbers.

It's all convoluted

Higher testing, with higher false positives here in the US would have done absolutely nothing for us. Would have changed nothing for the positive, in fact it could have amplified it even worse than it is, and lead to even higher panic....

 

[regor]

And it would be a lot easier to seal off and contain Southern California (about the same size a S Korea) than it would be to do the entire United States....

It's a disingenuous comparison. Most of them are since all the numbers have been skewed in different ways all over the world

The CDC here has issued directives to code for Covid even if it's not the underlying cause, or even without a conclusive test.

US Hospitals normal revenue streams are shut off, Government says it will pay for all covid costs for uninsured, insurance companies agreed to pay for their customers. Hospitals are going along because it means they will at least get guaranteed payment, even if the person had kidney problems, or other complications that actually resulted in their death, Especially among uninsured where they would normally nothing as payment.

We are getting inflated death numbers here for monetarily motivated reasons, who's to say in other countries they aren't giving numbers that are the other direction as to say "Look at how great we have done", especially government run systems like Korea, especially in cultures like theirs where the appearance of success is almost paramount to the reality of success.

US system has an incentive to show higher numbers, Other systems have incentives to show lower numbers.

It's all convoluted

Higher testing, with higher false positives here in the US would have done absolutely nothing for us. Would have changed nothing for the positive, in fact it could have amplified it even worse than it is, and lead to even higher panic....

Come on Racey, get with the f'ing program!!!!!!!

HONK HONK

 

[530RL]

SNIP........

Higher testing, with higher false positives here in the US would have done absolutely nothing for us. Would have changed nothing for the positive, in fact it could have amplified it even worse than it is, and lead to even higher panic....

Given there will always be sensitivity issues in all testing, it would appear your logic highlighted above would lead one to believe that less or no testing would have resulted in better health and economic outcomes than does filtered high testing. Because after all, we can't trust either the test, the reporting or US citizens to make their own choices for they would panic?

 

[Racey]

Given there will always be sensitivity issues in all testing, it would appear your logic highlighted above would lead one to believe that less or no testing would have resulted in better health and economic outcomes than does filtered high testing. Because after all, we can't trust either the test, the reporting or US citizens to make their own choices for they would panic?

Maybe in the world of 1 dimensional logic.

Toilet Paper and Bottled Water shortages started in late February,

Coronavirus fears empty store shelves of toilet paper, bottled water, masks as shoppers stock up

With concerns of the coronavirus growing into a pandemic and shoppers stocking up, experts say consumers will find more empty shelves by mid-April.

www.usatoday.com

significant testing (more than just a few hundred per day) didn't begin until the end of the first week of March.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is a virus (more specifically, a coronavirus) identified as the cause of an outbreak of respiratory illness first detected in Wuhan, China.

www.cdc.gov

Just so we can keep the history correct.

The media drove the panic, then when numbers come out, they report the worst case scenarios and pile on.

 

[FreeBird236]

I really just want to know who told who what, and when?

Why didnt we see this coming with all the money we spend on intel?

Is the media to blame for not getting enough HCDQQ as you say ? Does it even matter ?

True Fauci is one man, thats been handpicked by the Don and he doesnt seem to think it conclusively works based on what he's seen .

when did the CDC start working on the problem ?

So you are happy with our response all along and would give our entire gov an A+ on how this has been handled?

UD

It certainly could have been handled better, but I'd probably give them a solid B and improving daily.

I Give Trump a lot of credit for closing the boarders to China then Europe and Britain, quite early, and then catch a lot of flak for it.

I can't tell you where the intel might have broken down, but I blame China and the WHO for a full blown cover up.

Finally, I've seen many Highly regarded Dr.'s Raving about Hydroxychloroquine, with or without Zpak and Zinc. The info is out there, but very little on MSM except that Trump is pushing unproven dangerous medicine. It's widely used for malaria, lupus and Rm for years with almost no side effects. Not trying to be an ass, but a lot of your statements and questions in this entire thread seems like your a spokesperson for MSM which is nothing but a mouthpiece for the democrat party.

 

[Uncle Dave]

It certainly could have been handled better, but I'd probably give them a solid B and improving daily.

I Give Trump a lot of credit for closing the boarders to China then Europe and Britain, quite early, and then catch a lot of flak for it.

I can't tell you where the intel might have broken down, but I blame China and the WHO for a full blown cover up.

Finally, I've seen many Highly regarded Dr.'s Raving about Hydroxychloroquine, with or without Zpak and Zinc. The info is out there, but very little on MSM except that Trump is pushing unproven dangerous medicine. It's widely used for malaria, lupus and Rm for years with almost no side effects. Not trying to be an ass, but a lot of your statements and questions in this entire thread seems like your a spokesperson for MSM which is nothing but a mouthpiece for the democrat party.

Im a lot of things but a democrat spokesperson isnt one of them,
If you've followed me at all over the years Im pretty conservative, but Im not a mouthpiece for any side disliking politicians in general.
One set of guys takes my money and doles it out to everyone but me, the other guys take my money and give it to their friends.
I don't trust any news to tell the truth they are bought and paid for - I know Im in the TV business.

Lots of blind party politics here "my guy's great - your guys sucks". I dont really like any of them.

I saw my Asian clients basically shut down completely in January/Feb, and then watched us wait until March.
It isnt making sense to me.
Seems to me someone knew something is up and that we wasted time.


UD

 

[thetub]

Im a lot of things but a democrat spokesperson isnt one of them,
If you've followed me at all over the years Im pretty conservative, but Im not a mouthpiece for any side disliking politicians in general.
One set of guys takes my money and doles it out to everyone but me, the other guys take my money and give it to their friends.
I don't trust any news to tell the truth they are bought and paid for - I know Im in the TV business.

Lots of blind party politics here "my guy's great - your guys sucks". I dont really like any of them.

I saw my Asian clients basically shut down completely in January/Feb, and then watched us wait until March.
It isnt making sense to me.
Seems to me someone knew something is up and that we wasted time.


UD

UD

what should have been done?

lock the country down without any known cases here yet?

what should have been done ALL international flights coming in and going out the US stopped as soon as they found out it was contagious and deadly...

which he did only from EU and China and they had a shit fit... just like his terrorism travel ban a while back....

and when that did not work and it was herein the US at a minimum New York , Los Angeles and Florida should of had flights in and out locked down , which they had a shit fit about also...



WHO ,UN and China are all criminal crime syndicates... all in cahoots funneling money around... trust them? they are a joke

sadly our intel agencies all have Obama deep state moles also ... who do you trust anymore?

its sad actually

 

[Carlson-jet]

Many open eyes and ears on this board. We can all go back and see who if any could predict this.
In my personal opinion the "Cure" is now far worse than the disease depending upon who or what we claim is the disease.
One thing is certain, there is once again a shift in wealth taking place during some kind of crisis that will put some way back and others very far forward.
We are spending far too much on non essential officials who literally have Zero grasp of the situation at stake or looking foward.
My guess has been just as good as theirs from my numbers.
Trump is not god, He is just a filter. I cringe to think what this might look like if there was a shift in power and what the outcome would be up to this point. What lies beyond the next week is going to be critical to the health of out Nation.
Trump has left many things up to the States to decide and decide they have.
The MSM shit stirring media has done nothing to help but create panic to those who were ill equipt emotionally and financially.

 

[Uncle Dave]

UD

what should have been done?

lock the country down without any known cases here yet?

what should have been done is no international flights coming in from anywhere as soon as they found out it was contagious and deadly...

which he did only from EU and China and they had a shit fit... just like his terrorism travel ban a while back....

WHO ,UN and China are all criminal crime syndicates... all in cahoots funneling money around... trust them? they are a joke

sadly our intel agencies all have Obama deep state moles also ... who do you trust anymore?

its sad actually

Either we saw this thing killing people at an alarming rate or we didnt. I cant tell.

International flights from APAC immediately shut down at the first sign of pandemic, following day w notice day rest of EMEAR in short order tracking passports back as far as the electronic record keeping - trump did ok here, but it still feel late.

I already said in a prior mail the way the dems tried to spin this into racism was laughable so I don't know how I could be a parroting MSN mouthpiece.
The dems really fucked that up.

start preparing for massive amounts of

1. medical supplies gloves masks, sanitizers, the volume it takes to safely test and get through a pandemic is astounding I learned this with SARS in 2002

2. ready and prep a federal message about contact protocols stay at home orders vs leaving it to the states.

3. get ahead of the economic situation with emergency sessions putting in place loans and get through it funding.

I can tell you my clients in Asia were dealing with this crisis in Jan- something was defiantly up.

UD

 

[thetub]

Either we saw this thing killing people at an alarming rate or we didnt. I cant tell.

International flights from APAC immediately shut down at the first sign of pandemic, follow day rest of work in short order tracking passports back as far as the electronic record keeping

I already said in a prior mail the way the dems tried to spin this into racism was laughable so I don't know how I could be a parroting MSN mouthpiece.
The dems really fucked that up.

start preparing for massive amounts of

1. medical supplies gloves masks, sanitizers, the volume it takes to safely test and get through a pandemic is astounding I learned this with SARS in 2002

2. ready and prep a federal message about contact protocols stay at home orders vs leaving it to the states.

3. get ahead of the economic situation with emergency sessions putting in place loans and get through it funding.

I can tell you my clients in Asia were dealing with this crisis in Jan- something was defiantly up.

UD

just read the history and timeline of the swine flu and same shit happened there only difference was it wasnt as deadly...

nothing was learned and changed then. both are influenza type flus...

they should have learned from that last pandemic

actually the timeline and response with that was probably longer and way worse...

the hysteria and media frenzy was zero compared to this... actually i dont even remember the scenario play out or i was a younger idiot back then who didnt know shit from shinola

timeline link below
The 2009 H1N1 Pandemic: Summary Highlights, April 2009-April 2010


guarantee now there will always be stockpile of respirators, masks and gloves as you say... or you would hope

 

[530RL]

Either we saw this thing killing people at an alarming rate or we didnt. I cant tell.

International flights from APAC immediately shut down at the first sign of pandemic, following day w notice day rest of EMEAR in short order tracking passports back as far as the electronic record keeping - trump did ok here, but it still feel late.

I already said in a prior mail the way the dems tried to spin this into racism was laughable so I don't know how I could be a parroting MSN mouthpiece.
The dems really fucked that up.

start preparing for massive amounts of

1. medical supplies gloves masks, sanitizers, the volume it takes to safely test and get through a pandemic is astounding I learned this with SARS in 2002

2. ready and prep a federal message about contact protocols stay at home orders vs leaving it to the states.

3. get ahead of the economic situation with emergency sessions putting in place loans and get through it funding.

I can tell you my clients in Asia were dealing with this crisis in Jan- something was defiantly up.

UD

All I know is our plant in s korea is up and running and never dropped below 80 percent capacity and it was due to daily testing before every shift.
I accept Racey believes that is not the reason

Our plants in the US are shut down. Completely.

All I have to judge it all upon is results.

So I judge it on results.

 

[Uncle Dave]

In 2002 I was in toronto having meeting when it was hotspot for sars.
I flew from there to Montreal and barely made it to the hotel on my own power.
High fever, bad breathing, endless coughing that escalated to vomiting repeatedly - never had any shit like that in my life.
My company sent a doctor make a house call to my hotel room (back when money bought that ) and he took my passport for 4 days before he gave it back and gave some heavy drugs to sleep and a z pack type thing. I was never tested but believe Ive had SARS.
I remember thinking - now I understand how people die from this shit.....

 

[Uncle Dave]

All I know is our plant in s korea is up and running and never dropped below 80 percent capacity and it was due to daily testing before every shift.
I accept Racey believes that is not the reason

Our plants in the US are shut down. Completely.

All I have to judge it all upon is results.

So I judge it on results.

Not surprising. The Asian manufacturing went down first and now are coming back first.

If I could get my Asian clients to pay their bills it would be great - they all owe us money, and now I get why.....

My American suppliers are in various states, but all are compromised as we are when outfitted for CDC spacing.

Critical business flows both up and down the chain though allowing some capacity though, but greatly reduced.

Never thought Id be writing a permission letter for employees to go to work.....

UD

 

[thetub]

All I know is our plant in s korea is up and running and never dropped below 80 percent capacity and it was due to daily testing before every shift.
I accept Racey believes that is not the reason

Our plants in the US are shut down. Completely.

All I have to judge it all upon is results.

So I judge it on results.

ok 530 so why were we not prepared ?

S korea learned from Mers that happened in 2015 ?

so why did we not have test kits and vents in place after Swine flu from 2009?

why didnt Obama do shit and have us prepared for the next outbreak?

or even SARs ? why were we not prepared?

they all failed and i feel this administration is being analy tested ,scrutinized and judged like everything else so far ...

all by media hysteria and bullshit...


but bet they will have protocols in place now and wont have the WHO to drop the ball again unlike previous administrations including Bush, Clinton etc...

Orange man bad Orange man bad

 

[The Phantom]

All I know is our plant in s korea is up and running and never dropped below 80 percent capacity and it was due to daily testing before every shift.

So move to Korea and stop complaining.

 

[thetub]

only thing i know is these outbreaks have one common denominator and its starts with a C and ends with an A

and alot of people love the exploits of the place...

but "bat" a blind eye when shit goes side ways...

 

[FreeBird236]

Im a lot of things but a democrat spokesperson isnt one of them,
If you've followed me at all over the years Im pretty conservative, but Im not a mouthpiece for any side disliking politicians in general.
One set of guys takes my money and doles it out to everyone but me, the other guys take my money and give it to their friends.
I don't trust any news to tell the truth they are bought and paid for - I know Im in the TV business.

Lots of blind party politics here "my guy's great - your guys sucks". I dont really like any of them.

I saw my Asian clients basically shut down completely in January/Feb, and then watched us wait until March.
It isnt making sense to me.
Seems to me someone knew something is up and that we wasted time.


UD

We haven't conversed much, but I always known you were knowledgeable and thoughtful in your posts and I paid attention to learn something. I've sat at home watching the daily WH press conferences on the corona virus for the past two weeks, and if you can get past Trumps boastfulness they are really informative. Trump may have been slightly slow reacting, I actually don't think so, but the amount of different directions this man is capable of organizing is impressive . Not just Trump but this entire team he has brought together is doing a remarkable job IMHO, a lot of people don't understand what kind of system he inherited. It's truly impressive the way things have changed, but at every turn the left wing news media will distort or outright lie about what they are doing. ABC being one of the worst, wrote that article with unknown sources. when it was refuted I pointed it out.

 

[Uncle Dave]

We haven't conversed much, but I always known you were knowledgeable and thoughtful in your posts and I paid attention to learn something. I've sat at home watching the daily WH press conferences on the corona virus for the past two weeks, and if you can get past Trumps boastfulness they are really informative. Trump may have been slightly slow reacting, I actually don't think so, but the amount of different directions this man is capable of organizing is impressive . Not just Trump but this entire team he has brought together is doing a remarkable job IMHO, a lot of people don't understand what kind of system he inherited. It's truly impressive the way things have changed, but at every turn the left wing news media will distort or outright lie about what they are doing. ABC being one of the worst, wrote that article with unknown sources. when it was refuted I pointed it out.

He's always been a NY loud fast talker - thats just the guy. Always has been that guy.
As An LA guy NY guys are always a bit grating, but I can get over that.
I find his war with the press highly amusing, but not very productive for either side.

I saw a change in Trump in the last couple of weeks for the better.
I think when Jim Acosta and Newsom can compliment him were finally seeing some common ground and I like that but hate what to took to get them together.



UD

 

[Racey]

All I know is our plant in s korea is up and running and never dropped below 80 percent capacity and it was due to daily testing before every shift.
I accept Racey believes that is not the reason

Our plants in the US are shut down. Completely.

All I have to judge it all upon is results.

So I judge it on results.

Strange, my shop, my subs, my suppliers never dropped below 100 percent.... Maybe your plant needs some managerial attention....

 

[530RL]

Strange, my shop, my subs, my suppliers never dropped below 100 percent.... Maybe your plant needs some managerial attention....

Ours is small. Only 500 million or so in revenue. And I don’t manage them like you just finance them.

Yours must be much larger and better and as a matter of fact there are lots of billion dollar plants not experiencing your excellence.

Clearly by your post above your success, results and skills far exceed mine. Maybe you should fire up one of your jets from your personal success and spread out your managerial and pandemic excellence so that they can all share your wisdom and excellent results.

They don’t need my fianance help but given you humble bragging about your managerial skills maybe you should share.

 

[530RL]

ok 530 so why were we not prepared ?

S korea learned from Mers that happened in 2015 ?

so why did we not have test kits and vents in place after Swine flu from 2009?

why didnt Obama do shit and have us prepared for the next outbreak?

or even SARs ? why were we not prepared?

they all failed and i feel this administration is being analy tested ,scrutinized and judged like everything else so far ...

all by media hysteria and bullshit...


but bet they will have protocols in place now and wont have the WHO to drop the ball again unlike previous administrations including Bush, Clinton etc...

Orange man bad Orange man bad

Objectively I agree with your premise that certain Asian countries learned from prior pandemics and are due to this experiencing better health and economic outcomes.

with respect to the US the answer is only opinion. And my opinion is that current US leadership agrees with Racey and believes testing and quarantining positive test results is not the answer but complete economic lockdown is the answer. For that is what they are objectively implementing.

At the end of the day it does not matter who one believes is at fault. Whether it be republicans democrats or the orange guy. For those at fault will not suffer the economic consequences. Only the hard working middle and lower class of America will.

 

[The Phantom]

For those at fault will not suffer the economic consequences. Only the hard working middle and lower class of America will.

And now there is an example of our previous discussion. You can have your opinion and analyze all you like and in the end.

“ Might makes right”. Who gets rich and who gets dead.

Have a nice weekend.

 

[JBS]

Strange, my shop, my subs, my suppliers never dropped below 100 percent.... Maybe your plant needs some managerial attention....

That is amazing!! I mfg many essential products and we are not able to have that success. Everything from raw materials, shop supplies, Labor, inbound and outbound freight and even factory and field support on equipment.

If I was a one man show I still could not be at 100% No idea how you can be.

 

[YumaRivernaut]

More proof of foreknowledge by our agencies and officials dating back to 2014. Also again debunks the bullshit propaganda theory that is still being parroted of the virus emanating from the Wuhan wet market and the virus making the jump from eating bats to humans.
It is an engineered bioweapon released on purpose and it was known about for a long time before this "crisis".
Hegelian Dialectic in full swing. Again.
Wake up people. Before it's too late.

EXCLUSIVE: Dr. Shi Zhengli and the Wuhan Institute of Virology Connected to Coronavirus EXPERIMENTED WITH LIVE ANIMALS ...And We Have Proof! | The Gateway Pundit | by Joe Hoft

As we reported yesterday, Chinese Doctor Shi Zhengli was part of a team that working on a coronavirus project jointly with US doctors in 2014 before it was shut down by the DHS for being too risky. Dr.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[thetub]

More proof of foreknowledge by our agencies and officials dating back to 2014. Also again debunks the bullshit propaganda theory that is still being parroted of the virus emanating from the Wuhan wet market and the virus making the jump from eating bats to humans.
It is an engineered bioweapon released on purpose and it was known about for a long time before this "crisis".
Hegelian Dialectic in full swing. Again.
Wake up people. Before it's too late.

EXCLUSIVE: Dr. Shi Zhengli and the Wuhan Institute of Virology Connected to Coronavirus EXPERIMENTED WITH LIVE ANIMALS ...And We Have Proof! | The Gateway Pundit | by Joe Hoft

As we reported yesterday, Chinese Doctor Shi Zhengli was part of a team that working on a coronavirus project jointly with US doctors in 2014 before it was shut down by the DHS for being too risky. Dr.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

and to me it seems like there are 2 different strains ?

one that knocks you on yore ass (kills) and one strain that is less lethal (almost like a common cold or zero symptoms)?

 

[Uncle Dave]

More proof of foreknowledge by our agencies and officials dating back to 2014.

Interesting info.

Gateway pundit and Zerohedge are known for conspiracy promotion and Im not sure I trust either.

I didnt trust the National Enquirer when they said Rock Hudson had aids either so even questionable news outlets get it right every now and then.

scary.....

UD

 

[Racey]

Ours is small. Only 500 million or so in revenue. And I don’t manage them like you just finance them.

Yours must be much larger and better and as a matter of fact there are lots of billion dollar plants not experiencing your excellence.

Clearly by your post above your success, results and skills far exceed mine. Maybe you should fire up one of your jets from your personal success and spread out your managerial and pandemic excellence so that they can all share your wisdom and excellent results.

They don’t need my fianance help but given you humble bragging about your managerial skills maybe you should share.

I was just joining in while we were doing apples to oranges comparisons, maybe you missed that

Thanks for reminding us all how cool you are

 

[The Phantom]

I was just joining in while we were doing apples to oranges comparisons, maybe you missed that

Thanks for reminding us all how cool you are

I think 530RL misses quite a bit. I think he can’t see past his superiority complex.

 

[YumaRivernaut]

Interesting info.

Gateway pundit and Zerohedge are known for conspiracy promotion and Im not sure I trust either.

I didnt trust the National Enquirer when they said Rock Hudson had aids either so even questionable news outlets get it right every now and then.

scary.....

UD

How many times does the mainstream media have to lie to be considered questionable or conspiratorial?

 

[YumaRivernaut]

and to me it seems like there are 2 different strains ?

one that knocks you on yore ass (kills) and one strain that is less lethal (almost like a common cold or zero symptoms)?

The strain, like any recombinant RNA virus, will constantly mutate. This is why vaccines are ineffective.
It's all about the state of the immune system and over all health of the victim when the virus takes hold that determines the severity of symptoms.
Drugs can only facilitate the body to fight the infection. Our immune systems are what heal and cure us.

 

[Uncle Dave]

How many times does the mainstream media have to lie to be considered questionable or conspiratorial?

The mainstream is already bad, lets say I trust half of what I hear from them, id trust about half again of that from these guys...

UD

 

[94Nautique]

How many times does the mainstream media have to lie to be considered questionable or conspiratorial?

Per day or per hour? And do people have to die, or just suffer?

Asking for a friend. Who is a sheep, who watches Comedy Central and thinks the comedian’s political comments are actually news worthy.

 

[2CHILL]

Dr. Anthony Fauci said Sunday that calls to implement life-saving social distancing measures faced "a lot of pushback" early in the US coronavirus outbreak and that the country is now looking for ways to more effectively respond to the virus should it rebound in the fall.
"I mean, obviously, you could logically say that if you had a process that was ongoing and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives," Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert, told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union" when asked if social distancing and stay-at-home measures could have prevented deaths had they been put in place in February, instead of mid-March.
"Obviously, no one is going to deny that. But what goes into those decisions is complicated," added Fauci, who is a key member of the Trump administration's coronavirus task force. "But you're right, I mean, obviously, if we had right from the very beginning shut everything down, it may have been a little bit different. But there was a lot of pushback about shutting things down back then."

 

[wallnutz]

Dr. Anthony Fauci said Sunday that calls to implement life-saving social distancing measures faced "a lot of pushback" early in the US coronavirus outbreak and that the country is now looking for ways to more effectively respond to the virus should it rebound in the fall.
"I mean, obviously, you could logically say that if you had a process that was ongoing and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives," Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert, told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union" when asked if social distancing and stay-at-home measures could have prevented deaths had they been put in place in February, instead of mid-March.
"Obviously, no one is going to deny that. But what goes into those decisions is complicated," added Fauci, who is a key member of the Trump administration's coronavirus task force. "But you're right, I mean, obviously, if we had right from the very beginning shut everything down, it may have been a little bit different. But there was a lot of pushback about shutting things down back then."

i'm to lazy to research the dates, but I'm sure you will. All this staying home is rubbing off on me, hoping I'm not turning liberal.