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Taboma

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I agree stay home but if you have to go out we are all better off if we are all wearing masks.


You got masks for sale ? The ones I ordered from Amazon back in mid-January still haven't been shipped 🤬
 

02HoWaRd26

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RCP-Really Communist Place

Stiff fines if someone is caught not wearing something 🤦🏼‍♂️
 

FreeBird236

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The whole premise of this thread is flawed and goes against the recommendations of the medical community and exacerbates the shortage problem for the medical professionals that really need them. If you are sick, maybe one on the way to the Dr. if not you would need to be changing the mask and washing hands constantly and never touching the mask.
 

WhatExit?

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The whole premise of this thread is flawed and goes against the recommendations of the medical community and exacerbates the shortage problem for the medical professionals that really need them. If you are sick, maybe one on the way to the Dr. if not you would need to be changing the mask and washing hands constantly and never touching the mask.

Please! The mask message has been changed only due to one reason: THERE'S A MASK SHORTAGE!

Read this:

Would everyone wearing face masks help us slow the pandemic?
By Kelly ServickMar. 28, 2020 , 8:00 AM

Science’s COVID-19 reporting is supported by the Pulitzer Center.

As cases of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) ballooned last month, people in Europe and North America scrambled to get their hands on surgical masks to protect themselves. Health officials jumped in to discourage them, worried about the limited supply of masks for health care personnel. “Seriously people-STOP BUYING MASKS!” began a 29 February tweet from U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Adams. The World Health Organization and U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) have both said that only people with COVID-19 symptoms and those caring for them should wear masks.

But some health experts, including the director of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, think that’s a mistake. Health authorities in parts of Asia have encouraged all citizens to wear masks in public to prevent the spread of the virus, regardless of whether they have symptoms. And the Czech Republic took the uncommon step last week of making nose and mouth coverings mandatory in public spaces, prompting a grassroots drive to hand make masks.

Even experts who favor masking the masses say their impact on the spread of disease is likely to be modest. Many are also afraid to promote mask buying amid dire shortages at hospitals. But as the pandemic wears on, some public health experts thinkt government messages discouraging mask wearing should shift.

“It’s really a perfectly good public health intervention that’s not used,” argues KK Cheng, a public health expert at the University of Birmingham. “It’s not to protect yourself. It’s to protect people against the droplets coming out of your respiratory tract.”

Cheng and others stress that however masks are used, people must practice social distancing and stay at home as much as possible to prevent the spread of the novel coronavirus. When people do venture out and interact, they’re likely to spew some saliva. “I don’t want to frighten you, but when people speak and breathe and sing—you don’t have to sneeze or cough—these droplets are coming out,” he says.

Although there is some evidence that severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) can persist in aerosols—fine particles that remain suspended in air—aerosol transmission is likely rare, says Arnold Monto, an epidemiologist at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. It’s mostly spread by larger droplets, “and we know that standard surgical face masks will have a modest effect on that kind of transmission,” he says. “When you combine [masks] with other approaches, then they may make a difference.”

Randomized controlled trials focused on other viruses haven’t proved that masking the public decreases infections, though these studies have tended to have small sample sizes, and in many, participants didn’t wear the masks as much as they were instructed to.

Despite messages from some health officials to the contrary, it’s likely that a mask can help protect a healthy wearer from infection, says Benjamin Cowling, an epidemiologist at the University of Hong Kong. Both surgical masks and the more protective N95 respirators have been shown to prevent various respiratory infections in health care workers; there’s been some debate about which of the two is appropriate for different kinds of respiratory infection patient care. “It doesn’t make sense to imagine that … surgical masks are really important for health care workers but then not useful at all for the general public,” Cowling says.

Masks might work better at preventing infection in hospitals than in public, he says, in part because health care workers receive training on how to wear them and because they take other important safety measures such as thorough hand-washing. “I think the average person, if they were taught how to wear a mask properly … would have some protection against infection in the community.”

But the greatest benefit of masking the masses, Cowling and others argue, likely comes not from shielding the mouths of the healthy but from covering the mouths of people already infected. People who feel ill aren’t supposed to go out at all, but initial evidence suggests people without symptoms may also transmit the coronavirus without knowing they’re infected. Data from contact-tracing efforts—in which researchers monitor the health of people who recently interacted with someone confirmed to have an infection—suggest nearly half of SARS-CoV-2 transmissions occur before the infected person shows symptoms. And some seem to contract and clear the virus without ever feeling sick. “If I knew who was asymptomatic and presymptomatic [for COVID-19], I’d … triage the face masks to those individuals,” Monto says. Unfortunately, he adds, “We don’t know who these are.”

A key factor pushing health authorities to discourage mask wearing is the limited supply, says Elaine Shuo Feng, an epidemiologist and statistician at the University of Oxford, whose team last week published in The Lancet a comparison of various health authorities’ face mask recommendations.

For that reason, Mark Loeb, a microbiologist and infectious disease physician at McMaster University, says, “I do not think that it is sound public health policy for people to be going out and purchasing medical masks and N95 respirators and wearing them out on the street.”

The shortage has inspired do-it-yourself movements in many countries to produce cloth masks—which CDC acknowledges can be a last resort for health care workers lacking other protection. Rigorous studies comparing cloth masks to surgical ones or investigating the ideal material for homemade masks are lacking.

Cheng expects masks to become more important in the United States and Europe once the peak of COVID-19 cases passes and social distancing restrictions loosen. “Just imagine you’re traveling in the New York [City] subway on a busy morning. If everyone wears a mask, I’m sure that it would reduce the transmission,” he says, adding, “Don’t ask me to show you a clinical trial that it works.”

 

NicPaus

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Did you notice the post flagging said she was with Leah and 9 other people?
She tagged one of my river neighbors so they would see the post. Several people I know were at foxs that day.
 

WhatExit?

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This article is a couple weeks old so it's not current but it is relevant...

How face masks are reminding the world of China's manufacturing dominance
Mar 12, 2020, 8:40pm HKT

The Liu family factory has been making diapers and baby products in the Chinese city of Quanzhou for over 10 years. In February, for the first time, it started making face masks, as demand soared spectacularly due to the coronavirus outbreak.

The business – which employs 100 people in the southeastern province of Fujian – has added two production lines to make up to 200,000 masks a day.

And while the decision was primarily commercial, “encouragement” from the Chinese government – in the form of subsidies, lower taxes, interest-free loans, fast-track approvals for expansion and help to alleviate labor shortages – made the decision an obvious one, said Mr Liu, who preferred only to give his family name.

“The government is advocating an expansion in production,” Liu said. “With faster approvals, producers need to prioritize the government’s needs over exports.”

The factory is one of thousands of refitted pop-ups around China that are making masks and other protective equipment for the first time, part of a massive industrial drive to respond to the spread of the coronavirus.

Before the outbreak, China already made about half of the world’s supply of masks, at a rate of 20 million units a day.

That rose to 116 million as of February 29, according to China’s state planning agency.

This exponential jump is the result of a wartime-like shift in industrial policy, with Beijing directing its powerful state-owned enterprises to lead the nationwide mask-making effort, and the country’s sprawling manufacturing engine following their lead.

“For me, this is the big advantage of China, the speed,” said Thomas Schmitz, president of the China branch of Austrian engineering giant Andritz, which has seen a big uptick in demand for its wet wipe-making machines in recent weeks, also due to the virus.

“When you need to run, people know how to run, and this is something which has been lost in other countries since their industrial heydays.”

Chinese oil and gas major Sinopec upped production of mask raw materials such as polypropylene and polyvinyl chloride in January.

This week, it set up two production lines in Beijing to produce melt-blown non-woven fabric, intended to make 4.4 tons of the material each day. The fabric can then be used to produce 1.2 million N95 respirators or six million surgical masks a day.

More than 2,500 companies in China have reportedly started making masks, among them 700 technology companies, including iPhone assembler Foxconn and smartphone makers Xiaomi and Oppo.

The result resembles “the war effort” in the middle of the last century in the United States and western Europe.

It is a reminder of what can happen in a centrally-planned economy with a strong manufacturing base. The mobilization also brings into sharp focus some of the geopolitical issues that have characterized China’s at-times difficult relationship with the rest of the world, particularly the European Union and US, over the past couple of years.

China’s dominance in manufacturing has become all the more evident as the rest of the world scrambles to shore up their own dwindling medical supplies, leading many to wonder why the world is so dependent on it for vital supplies.

The Italian government, which is dealing with the highest number of coronavirus cases and deaths after China, is to accept shipment of 1,000 ventilators, 2 million masks, 100,000 respirators, 200,000 protective suits and 50,000 testing kits from China.

The World Medical Association is unable to specify how many masks are required to supply frontline medical staff in virus-hit areas, but said, “this crisis should be a wake-up call for politicians and societies to make the necessary investment in emergency preparedness and to look into the vulnerability of our supply chains.”

The US only has 1% of the 3.5 billion masks it would need to counter a serious outbreak, Bloomberg reported.

While China has no quota on the volume of masks that had to be siphoned off for local consumption, the government has said domestic demand needs to be prioritized.

Businesses are free to export but overseas demand has yet to explode as it has in China, said Fujian factory owner Liu.

Wendy Min, sales director of Pluscare, a manufacturer based near the virus’s epicenter in Hubei province, said her company is making 200,000 masks per day, much of the stock is sold to the government, with exports still restricted by the partial lockdown of workers and cargo transport.

“We previously exported to Europe, South America and other parts of Asia,” Min said. “But at the moment we can’t export. We are trying to discuss this with the government, but we cannot wait any more – we have to export soon.”

An influx of Chinese-made masks, though, is likely to be welcomed in other virus-stricken parts of the world.

Miguel Luiz Gricheno, CEO of Brazilian mask manufacturer Destra, said that his company is making 30,000 masks a day, but cannot meet local demand due to a lack of supplies, including the non-woven fabric from which masks are made.

“In disposable masks, most Brazilian companies are paralyzed due to the lack of raw materials,” Gricheno said. “With the arrival of the coronavirus in Brazil, the demand has increased a lot but the main raw material comes from abroad.”

However, a short-term supply fix will not answer underlying questions about how so many countries found themselves in such dire straits, meaning the geopolitical fallout of the coronavirus will be extensive.

Decades of weak industrial policy helped elect US President Donald Trump, who said he would bring manufacturing jobs back to America at China’s expense.

While he has waged a bruising two-year trade war with China, the current situation shows just how difficult it will be to change the global manufacturing processes, which are so heavily controlled by China.

“In the guise of trying to improve efficiency and create value for price-sensitive consumers, we’ve created a global production network that is very difficult to unwind,” said Stephen Roach, a professor of economics at Yale University and a veteran China watcher.

“One of the great flaws of globalization is that everyone wanted things cheaper, but did you compromise your health care infrastructure in the process?”

Reuters reported that Trump is considering invoking the emergency provisions of the Defence Production Act, which would allow the government to instruct companies to alter production to help address the domestic shortage of medical supplies like masks.

If a company is producing 20% N95 masks and 80% standard masks, the White House could order them to rejig the ratio, an unnamed official said.

The New York Times reported on Wednesday that the White House is preparing an executive order that would allow the government to buy medical supplies from overseas in the hope that it will incentivize companies to make them within the US.

But these changes still do not give Trump the sort of sweeping powers enjoyed by Chinese counterpart President Xi Jinping.

“When you have a pluralistic, democratic situation that Trump is overseeing, it becomes more unwieldy” to take the steps necessary to address a crisis situation, said Harry Broadman, chair of the emerging markets practice at the Berkeley Research Group and a senior US government official in the 1980s and 1990s.

“That is why I think Trump looks at Xi with envy, because he doesn’t have to deal with a disparity of views or democratic interests,” Broadman said.

“I think Trump is at heart a bilateral guy, as you saw with the phase one [US-China] trade deal and the state-to-state purchases. That is why he likes dealing with Putin and Xi, because each of them can move mountains. I think Trump is very envious of that ability.”


 

Justfishing

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That's funny...that's what some people are saying but if that's the case why do hospital workers need them?
I think there is more than to it than many consider.

For one does it breed a false sense of security. I am wearing a mask so i can go out with symptoms. Or i am very well protcted by a mask when it provides limited protection.

When you wear protective gear there are certain protocols you follow when doning the gear and taking it off. Lets say you wear a mask an it gets the virus on it. You come into your house you take it off like any normal clothing. But in doing so you have contaminated your hands. Are you throwing the mask away after each use? If not where are you storing it. Are you putting a contaminated mask on. Can you see how any benefit is lost.

Even many medical personel dont put on andt take off gear properly. This in an environment that gives them the tools to do so.


Do you wash your hands properly. People think a little soap a quick rinse and you are .good. it is the physical action of rubbing that losens contaminants so the water can carry them away. Soap is a facilitator. Do you scrub the webs ofyour fingers, the backs of your hands, your cuticles. What do you touch leaving the bathroom.
 

94Nautique

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Ill just back to what I know,,, Math, and right now the math says we are seriously F@&#ed I suspect north of 15mil will die in the US alone.
Wow, 15 million. What does that math look like? What are the current and PAST infection rates you are using. And co morbidity factoring? And do you realize the models the experts were using have almost all been walked back. 15m seems a bit high.
 
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Again, wearing a mask is not a bad idea, but it will not prevent the spread. The limited availability of masks will only make things worse if people continue to hoard them. Proper hand hygiene is the best defense most people have, in addition to social distancing and STAYING AT HOME. Again, this is a severe strain of the flu (in layman terms)


I've got three boxes of N-95 masks. Got them like 10+ years ago. A hospital was getting rid of them, I think because they have latex in them ? been a long time so... anyway they don't have the filter on them but, I plan to wear one the next time I'm in grocery store which is the only Public place I go now.
 

RVR SWPR

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Wow, 15 million. What does that math look like? What are the current and PAST infection rates you are using. And co morbidity factoring? And do you realize the models the experts were using have almost all been walked back. 15m seems a bit high.

“The Spanish flu (also known as the 1918 flu pandemic[2]) was an unusually deadly influenza pandemic. Lasting from January 1918 to December 1920, it infected 500 million people—about a quarter of the world's population at the time. The death toll is estimated to have been anywhere from 17 million to 50 million worldwide with about 675,000 occurring in the United States”
 

HAVASUSUN

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Ill just back to what I know,,, Math, and right now the math says we are seriously F@&#ed I suspect north of 15mil will die in the US alone.

That is simply crazy talk right there buddy. Please show your source for this calculation. It better not be some crazy alt news website. I want to see CDC or other credentialed source.
 

NicPaus

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Exactly what I've been saying for weeks!!!!un real.
Been the same at the beach by my jobsite. Neighbor takes his kid on a walk daily. He said it was blowing wind and cold and the strand was so packed they went home instead. Finally closed it.

I had to go to home depot yesterday. Went to the one in the hood thinking it would be empty. Never seen so many home owners there in my life. Hour wait to get in. Drove to the next hood over and they were not regulating how many inside. It was packed with home owners. 20 in the paint line alone not 2' away from each other. Same at lowes. Manager told me they have not had sales that high since the other lowes opened in Torrance. No way they were going to close as they are making $$$$. They don't care about public health. I asked about cleaning supplies and hand sanitizer. They have not even ordered any just waiting on there regular shipments.
 

PlanB

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^^^ My buddy is a plumber and he posted a video yesterday from Home Depot. It was packed to the brim. He can't shop at his usual plumbing supply place because they are closed, so he is forced to get stuff at these box stores.
 

Taboma

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^^^ My buddy is a plumber and he posted a video yesterday from Home Depot. It was packed to the brim. He can't shop at his usual plumbing supply place because they are closed, so he is forced to get stuff at these box stores.

Certainly wasn't like that this afternoon at the HD in Escondido or the Lowes for that matter. Had to go get some supplies for finishing my wife's office now that she's working from home.
Everybody was keeping more than sufficient social distancing --- with the exception of a few of the store employees :mad: I stepped off to the side several times as they were coming at me head on.
But otherwise it was awesome easy shopping, wish it was like that all the time.
What pissed me off was wife and I ordering a couple of burgers at the Wendy's drive-thru. Normally they have two windows open, one for the money, one for the food. I'm not digging it when the same person handling the filthy money is also handing you your food. --- oh well, just more liberal application of hand sanitizer :rolleyes: I think I absorbed so much alcohol today I'm feeling buzzed 😂
 

PlanB

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^^^ I believe he was in the Temecula / Murrieta area.
 

Taboma

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^^^ I believe he was in the Temecula / Murrieta area.

I must admit, when we pulled into the Lowes parking lot I was a bit surprised to see quite a few cars. Being in that older age group and being extremely wary, I was pleasantly surprised how few were in the isles and all were respectful to keep their distance, except the damned employees --- just like at Home Depot, it was the employees I found myself taking alternate routes & measures to avoid.
According to the Home Depot worker, seems HD and Lowes are popular due to all the stay at home 'Honey-Do' projects.
Funny, but Lowes had a big sign out front " Now Hiring" .
 

spectras only

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Alcohol kills germs and cigars promote social distancing - I’m all set :p :D:D
 
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