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How in the world did we get to this place?

Singleton

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Folks forget, it takes 7 years for an electric car to reach net-zero CO2 (when you factor in the battery manufacturing). The life expectancy of the battery is 10 years (average). Only in the last 3 years do you start to reduce your carbon footprint, but then the batteries must be replaced and you lose all gains made.

But by all means, get an electric car. Just stop trying to force me to get one under the guise that it helps our world or other humans when it clearly doesn’t.
 

Andy B.

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"Republicans aren't the solution to our problems but democrats are definitely the cause of our problems"

-Dan Bongino, and probably other people also
Most of them are playing along very few true conservatives left in congress more like a uniparty!! IThe answer not sure, replace and they turn on you really sad..........
 

Flyinbowtie

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The world isn't out of control, the people who control it don't have any controls on them.
I believe it started in earnest about 45-50 years ago.
I watched it begin, and saw it get rolling at work when dealing with the system.
The success the country experienced had us paying attention to, and focusing on, bettering our lives and the world around us to the point that we, as a society and culture, were not setting enough time aside for the responsibilities that come with citizenship. We allowed our public education system to become infested by socialists, first at the very local level, where a couple of locally elected board members began to grow there own Marxist program, which slowly replaced teaching the basics we sent our kids to school for. Civics and history were the first to fall. Then Critical Thinking skills.
People are not born with a working understanding of the responsibility of citizenship.
It must be taught.
Once Critical thinking skills were set aside, and a basic, fundamental understanding of how our form of government is supposed to work ceased to be taught, then the door was open for the next step.
Indoctrination.
We reached the starting point for that to begin in the early 90's, and it was off to the races with the process of making everyone a victim, and reliving people of personal responsibility and accountability. Government was ready and willing to assign victim status,for just about everyone, offering the carrot of money along with the stick that was the loss of freedom, and our rights.
And people bought into it.
The rise of the victim culture ensued, and government exploded in both size and reach.
The Marxists entrenched themselves, and people became addicted to the gifts they could give themselves by just voting for the politician who backed "the new program" that was going to address the problem and fix it. "It" being whatever problem previous government had created. The "new program" never fixed anything...because it was never intended to fix anything.
Then, once the Marxists had control at every level we wound up here.
A lot of people have seen the light, thankfully. I am just not confident enough have, and will step to the ballot box to being turning the ship around. Our culture and society is rotting away around and underneath us. Fixing it is going to require enduring serious self examination by a lot of people who don't know how to do that. When only 35-40% of voters even bother, we have a problem.
When we continue to elect people who have taken the disguise off and make no bones about their goal of destroying the country, well...
Right now we have half of the country claiming to support the political party that is orchestrating the invasion that is under way at our southern border.
This is tantamount to national suicide.
In short, the public allowed it to happen by not paying attention to the responsibility of citizenship in a Constitutional Republic.
Which leaves us where we are, with a dangerous senile idiot who never had a real job in his life sitting in the most powerful office in the world being controlled by people who have no reign on them whatsoever.
 
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Bigbore500r

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EV's used to have alot of perks, but the push to make them the "standard" vehicle has removed most of those in many states.
CA adds extra registration on, to offset the fact that they don't pay gasoline excise tax. CA also can't issue them all carpool access stickers as there's too many, so they plan to end that perk. Then you have the state and federal rebate money that is no longer garaunteed, now applying only to certain vehicles and until the yearly budget runs out. That used to net a 10,000 savings on a new EV purchase. Finally, utility companies are raising electric rates thru the roof and CA scrapped most all solar incentives with the NEM revisions.

Why should I buy a 50k electirc economy car again? Oh . . . to save money? 🤣

Hybrid technology that got 50mpg was the sweet spot - keep your gasoline, just use way less of it. No plug in needed.
But that got leapfrogged by the left's lithium battery masturbation dreams . . .
 

2Driver

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Pretty much. “Imagineers” in charge with no basis on reality. The rats follow the Pied piper over the cliff.

Yep global warming fear mongering is the same technique that was used with Covid except it has taken root. Society and business is fully on board the good ship “Emperor has no clothes”.

This is still the best documentary on climate change, back when scholars and scientist could talk openly. I think some of these folks were eventually shown the door. Which is really the true “how did we get to this place” issue.

 
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angiebaby

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Folks forget, it takes 7 years for an electric car to reach net-zero CO2 (when you factor in the battery manufacturing). The life expectancy of the battery is 10 years (average). Only in the last 3 years do you start to reduce your carbon footprint, but then the batteries must be replaced and you lose all gains made.

But by all means, get an electric car. Just stop trying to force me to get one under the guise that it helps our world or other humans when it clearly doesn’t.

We prefer the idea of recycling cars . . . you know adopting the ones that people no longer want for whatever reason. If the libs really wanted to fix the planet, they would advocate people purchase the millions of autos that have already been built using valuable resources. I can't imagine the carbon footprint of building ANY entirely new vehicle over the potential minimal extra carbon output of a motor that has already been built. Metals, plastics, and everything that goes into the batteries that have an expiration date that does not need to be produced if someone purchases a used vehicle. Boggles my mind that the sheep are stupid enough to believe that is better for the planet.
 

rivermobster

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Ford’s overall revenue for the first quarter, including its credit business, increased about 3% year over year to $42.78 billion.

Net income for the period was $1.33 billion, or 33 cents per share, compared with $1.76 billion, or 44 cents, a year earlier.


The title to that article was 100 percent click bait....

Everyone is loosing their azz on electric vehicles. Tesla is leading the plunge down the drain!

Will the powers that be wake the fuck up?? That's the real question here.

Let's Go Brandon!!! 🇺🇲
 

530RL

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The title to that article was 100 percent click bait....

Everyone is loosing their azz on electric vehicles. Tesla is leading the plunge down the drain!

Will the powers that be wake the fuck up?? That's the real question here.

Let's Go Brandon!!! 🇺🇲
Seems to me objectively, some people want electric cars. Even with the subsidies from government, electric cars still make no economic comparative sense to the consumer, yet they are over 6.5% of all sales today and growing. And the job of an automaker is to give the customer what they want and expand their business.

Consequently manufacturers are going to build electric cars.

Secondly, the market values Tesla at well over ten times that of Ford despite being much smaller than Ford. If you are a Director or Senior Manager at Ford, you are probably going to lose your job if you don't see and recognize that fact.

I don't want one and I don't see the value in them for me personally, but if I was at an automotive manufacturer, I would certainly understand I better be pouring resources into that segment or I am going to be left behind.
 

Wizard29

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Ford’s overall revenue for the first quarter, including its credit business, increased about 3% year over year to $42.78 billion.

Net income for the period was $1.33 billion, or 33 cents per share, compared with $1.76 billion, or 44 cents, a year earlier.

It is your assertion that Ford is doing fine and should keep going with EVs?

You do realize the original article refers to Ford's electric vehicle division, right? That division lost $1.3 Billion.

The overall revenue number is fine to gawk at, but how much money did they actually make? I can sell a cup of lemonade for $1, but it could very well cost me $1.50 to make it. My overall revenue is fine, but my net income is -$.50.

So the net income figure. Seems like if Ford wasn't pissing money away on the EVs, they might be in the 44 cent per share range they were in last year instead of 33 cents currently. Not sure I'd be too proud of a 25% decrease in value.
 

Andy B.

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It is your assertion that Ford is doing fine and should keep going with EVs?

You do realize the original article refers to Ford's electric vehicle division, right? That division lost $1.3 Billion.

The overall revenue number is fine to gawk at, but how much money did they actually make? I can sell a cup of lemonade for $1, but it could very well cost me $1.50 to make it. My overall revenue is fine, but my net income is -$.50.

So the net income figure. Seems like if Ford wasn't pissing money away on the EVs, they might be in the 44 cent per share range they were in last year instead of 33 cents currently. Not sure I'd be too proud of a 25% decrease in value.
Exactly
 

530RL

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It is your assertion that Ford is doing fine and should keep going with EVs?

You do realize the original article refers to Ford's electric vehicle division, right? That division lost $1.3 Billion.

The overall revenue number is fine to gawk at, but how much money did they actually make? I can sell a cup of lemonade for $1, but it could very well cost me $1.50 to make it. My overall revenue is fine, but my net income is -$.50.

So the net income figure. Seems like if Ford wasn't pissing money away on the EVs, they might be in the 44 cent per share range they were in last year instead of 33 cents currently. Not sure I'd be too proud of a 25% decrease in value.
Yes, Ford and all major manufacturers must invest in electric, hybrid and plug in hybrid technology development knowing fully well that they will not be profitable for years. See my explanation in post 19 above yours.

And to no surprise, they all are.
 

TBulger

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Bought a Nissan Leaf in 2012, was supposed to get 100 miles/charge got about 60. Absolutely loved the little car for getting back and forth to work. Cost about 40k out the door and got 7.5k back from the gov.
In 2018 it had 26k miles and looked brand new, not even a stone chip. Tried to sell it but nobody wanted it, traded in on a 2016 Toyota van and got 3k in trade it.
Going to wait to buy a new one until they get 500 miles/charge. The poor people buying them now and getting less than 300 miles/charge will be giving them away like I did. However, they are paying way more to get them so the loss will be greater, I pity them for being so upside down.
In my opinion if you want one now, lease it and then just give it back when lease is up. They have a long way to go to be for everyone.
 

Wizard29

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Yes, Ford and all major manufacturers must invest in electric, hybrid and plug in hybrid technology development knowing fully well that they will not be profitable for years. See my explanation in post 19 above yours.

And to no surprise, they all are.
I guess I'm confused as to why you'd post information that seems to tout Ford's financial well being when it actually indicates a 25% drop in value when you look at the finer details. Why not just say, "Yeah, they are losing money right now, but this is an investment that will hopefully pay off later"?

The fact is that right now, their financial performance is not great and we can attribute $1.3B of that lacking financial performance to their EV sector.

In any case, $1.3B per quarter or $5.2B annually is a hell of an investment on a "maybe" technology.
 

Cdog

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We prefer the idea of recycling cars . . . you know adopting the ones that people no longer want for whatever reason. If the libs really wanted to fix the planet, they would advocate people purchase the millions of autos that have already been built using valuable resources. I can't imagine the carbon footprint of building ANY entirely new vehicle over the potential minimal extra carbon output of a motor that has already been built. Metals, plastics, and everything that goes into the batteries that have an expiration date that does not need to be produced if someone purchases a used vehicle. Boggles my mind that the sheep are stupid enough to believe that is better for the planet.
IMG_0017.jpeg
 

530RL

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I guess I'm confused as to why you'd post information that seems to tout Ford's financial well being when it actually indicates a 25% drop in value when you look at the finer details. Why not just say, "Yeah, they are losing money right now, but this is an investment that will hopefully pay off later"?

The fact is that right now, their financial performance is not great and we can attribute $1.3B of that lacking financial performance to their EV sector.

In any case, $1.3B per quarter or $5.2B annually is a hell of an investment on a "maybe" technology.
I posted the financial data without comment good or bad. I posted it so others could compare them to the article which cleary implies that Ford is going bankrupt (see post one) due solely to the EV market and come to their own conclusions based upon audited financial statements. Posting facts is not taking a side, it is providing data for people to look at an issue with more information.

With respect to the question of whether or not they should be making an investment into electric, hybrid, and plug in hybrid and the associated chassis, drive train and other software and hardware technology, my opinion is they have no choice as the market wants it, the market is buying it, and that market will continue to grow.

I get others think Ford should not spend a penny on those technologies and stick solely with ICE. That is certainly an opinion as valid as mine.

Lastly for those who think Ford is going bankrupt due to their investment in new technology, short the stock. It is very easy to short as there is a ton of outstanding shares available for short positions. 👍
 

dread Pirate

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We prefer the idea of recycling cars . . . you know adopting the ones that people no longer want for whatever reason. If the libs really wanted to fix the planet, they would advocate people purchase the millions of autos that have already been built using valuable resources. I can't imagine the carbon footprint of building ANY entirely new vehicle over the potential minimal extra carbon output of a motor that has already been built. Metals, plastics, and everything that goes into the batteries that have an expiration date that does not need to be produced if someone purchases a used vehicle. Boggles my mind that the sheep are stupid enough to believe that is better for the planet.


Same. What's hard for me to grasp is that my vehicles are 20 years old! :oops:
 

Wizard29

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With respect to the question of whether or not they should be making an investment into electric, hybrid, and plug in hybrid and the associated chassis, drive train and other software and hardware technology, my opinion is they have no choice as the market wants it, the market is buying it, and that market will continue to grow.
Perhaps some context on what your opinion is or what you are trying to say might be helpful when posting the facts you find. The "I'm just going to leave this here" approach comes off as contradictory and inflammatory, which leads to some of the reactions you tend to get.

Will people still buy them at a price point that causes the manufacturer not to lose money? Looking at post 1 that indicates a loss of $132,000 per vehicle, will the market sustain an added $132,000 on the purchase price? I'm thinking no.

Just because a technology exists doesn't mean it's feasible.

Maybe with technology advances and economies of scale, they can drive down that $132K loss, but that's a big gap to cover. Probably won't bankrupt them, but it doesn't seem like a smart business strategy either.
 

rivermobster

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I posted the financial data without comment good or bad. I posted it so others could compare them to the article which cleary implies that Ford is going bankrupt (see post one) due solely to the EV market and come to their own conclusions based upon audited financial statements. Posting facts is not taking a side, it is providing data for people to look at an issue with more information.

With respect to the question of whether or not they should be making an investment into electric, hybrid, and plug in hybrid and the associated chassis, drive train and other software and hardware technology, my opinion is they have no choice as the market wants it, the market is buying it, and that market will continue to grow.

I get others think Ford should not spend a penny on those technologies and stick solely with ICE. That is certainly an opinion as valid as mine.

Lastly for those who think Ford is going bankrupt due to their investment in new technology, short the stock. It is very easy to short as there is a ton of outstanding shares available for short positions. 👍

Do you honestly think people want and demand this shit??

I mean, other than the Complete idiot, who actually believes they are Somehow helping the planet (and I'm pretty sure we both know that's a HUGE lie), most people have zero interest in electric cars.

If it wasn't being MANDATED by the feds, me personally, I don't think there would be anything more than a passing interest, with the available technology we have today.

Eventually, electric cars could be an option, AI is coming up with new battery tech as we speak, and will be in development for many more years, to determine if it actually works.

But today? With the available technology we currently have?

Demand for electric Should be nothing more than chalk on a drawing board.

The future is not here, yet.

 

angiebaby

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530RL

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Do you honestly think people want and demand this shit??

I mean, other than the Complete idiot, who actually believes they are Somehow helping the planet (and I'm pretty sure we both know that's a HUGE lie), most people have zero interest in electric cars.

If it wasn't being MANDATED by the feds, me personally, I don't think there would be anything more than a passing interest, with the available technology we have today.

Eventually, electric cars could be an option, AI is coming up with new battery tech as we speak, and will be in development for many more years, to determine if it actually works.

But today? With the available technology we currently have?

Demand for electric Should be nothing more than chalk on a drawing board.

The future is not here, yet.

Musk didn’t build Tesla in 2003 as a response to the government and climate change, he did it because he believed there were people who wanted electric cars.

And he took the climate change stuff as an opportunity to petition the government for expanded tax credits and expanded grants and other taxpayer money.

So yes, there is certainly demand although not for me. Hell, I have yet to figure out why anyone would buy an electric golf cart over a gas one but the electric ones outsell gas twenty to one.
 

dread Pirate

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When was the last time anyone saw a Tesla Roadster on the road? Or even in a garage?

They're all gone.
 

530RL

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When was the last time anyone saw a Tesla Roadster on the road? Or even in a garage?

They're all gone.
They have become huge collector cars. Worth big money.


 

rivermobster

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Musk didn’t build Tesla in 2003 as a response to the government and climate change, he did it because he believed there were people who wanted electric cars.

And he took the climate change stuff as an opportunity to petition the government for expanded tax credits and expanded grants and other taxpayer money.

So yes, there is certainly demand although not for me. Hell, I have yet to figure out why anyone would buy an electric golf cart over a gas one but the electric ones outsell gas twenty to one.

I agree with your personal feelings 100 percent.

I'm not sure I agree with your situational assessment though...

I believe the tax incentives came Way before Musk jumped in.

He may have understood (as we all do) fossils fuels won't last forever, and wanted to be in front of that.

But I think he wanted to take advantage of the situation. And the guberment Gave him the ability to do so.

Knowing full well, the technology, wasn't quite ready for prime time, the incentives gave him the push to jump in anyway.

Of note: Prius came out in 1997. Tesla in 2008.
 

mjc

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I agree with your personal feelings 100 percent.

I'm not sure I agree with your situational assessment though...

I believe the tax incentives came Way before Musk jumped in.

He may have understood (as we all do) fossils fuels won't last forever, and wanted to be in front of that.

But I think he wanted to take advantage of the situation. And the guberment Gave him the ability to do so.

Knowing full well, the technology, wasn't quite ready for prime time, the incentives gave him the push to jump in anyway.

Of note: Prius came out in 1997. Tesla in 2008.
If fossil fuels every really go away so will all the plastic and chemicals needed to make those electric cars. If I never needed to leave town I would consider an EV just for the short drive stuff.
 

dread Pirate

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If fossil fuels every really go away so will all the plastic and chemicals needed to make those electric cars. If I never needed to leave town I would consider an EV just for the short drive stuff.


If fossil fuels are actually made of fossils, why does the moon Titan have lakes of natural gas and pools on benzene? Space dinosaurs? 🤔
 

rivermobster

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If fossil fuels every really go away so will all the plastic and chemicals needed to make those electric cars. If I never needed to leave town I would consider an EV just for the short drive stuff.

Well nothing is infinite, right?

AI will find alternatives we could Never dream up. But we probably won't see it in our lifetimes.

Who knows what the future will bring.

🤷‍♂️
 

LuauLounge

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There was also a shit load of Rural Internet Infrastructure money that he and anyone else needed for autonomous driving. I have no idea how big this played in all this, but it was there and he’s benefited from it.
 

mjc

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Well nothing is infinite, right?

AI will find alternatives we could Never dream up. But we probably won't see it in our lifetimes.

Who knows what the future will bring.

🤷‍♂️
I have read(sometime ago) that some wells have actually had more oil created as the wells are filling up fast than drawing down. Now don't remember when or where it was.
 

rivermobster

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I have read(sometime ago) that some wells have actually had more oil created as the wells are filling up fast than drawing down. Now don't remember when or where it was.

You read it on social media. It's pretty much everywhere from TicToc, Quara, Reddit and Instagram. Same people that are still saying the earth is actually flat! 😁

But let's consider this for a moment...

Clearly the earth DID create our current oil supply, but, the earth is also almost 5 BILLION years old!

Is it creating oil as fast as we are using it? Yeah no, It's not, and it won't be anytime soon.

If you want to read some industry news, here is an article for ya...


And if you want to dig even deeper into it, this is a pretty good read as well...

 

mjc

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You read it on social media. It's pretty much everywhere from TicToc, Quara, Reddit and Instagram. Same people that are still saying the earth is actually flat! 😁

But let's consider this for a moment...

Clearly the earth DID create our current oil supply, but, the earth is also almost 5 BILLION years old!

Is it creating oil as fast as we are using it? Yeah no, It's not, and it won't be anytime soon.

If you want to read some industry news, here is an article for ya...


And if you want to dig even deeper into it, this is a pretty good read as well...

I read it long before social media but don't remember when. Been a long time.
 
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