I didn't see this coming...Kids going hungry when they don't go to school

[ChumpChange]

There shouldn't be free anything my parents paid for lunch if I forgot mine!! Like I said in the past if you can't afford to take care of yourself don't bring kid's into the world period!!

It's not free. All these kids' parents are paying for it with their tax dollars.

 

[boatdoc55]

First of all, collection of resources, management of risk and allocation of benefit is how we function at a capitalistic society. Not having kids is a personal choice, in many cases. The short answer to your question is "public good". You are not being fucked your are contributing the the public good, which is in your best interest.

By your rational, the entire insurance industry should cease to exist. People would have no coverage and only pay for their mistakes and misfortune. However, we all know managing resources and pooling risk works but it comes at a cost. That cost is spread among all, some more than others. I'm a big fan of having skin in the game but there will always be those that skirt the system. The current tax reform has done nothing to ensure that those on bottom, typically the receiving end, are paying their share or at least something. As for illegals, they shouldn't be here. BUT if they are, they need access to education and healthcare while their here. Again, because in is the best interest of all.

I realize you have me on ignore BUT, YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT!!!!!!

 

[Uncle Dave]

It's not free. All these kids' parents are paying for it with their tax dollars.

Every person is paying for those kids, even those WITHOUT ANY kids to pay for.

 

[RodnJen]

I realize you have me on ignore BUT, YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT!!!!!!

I don’t have anyone on ignore.

 

[Uncle Dave]

I dont understand being disagreeable vs. simply disagreeing.

UD

 

[RodnJen]

Disagreement vs. Disagreeable | Amber Naslund

I’m a big fan of disagreement. Conflicting ideas, dissenting viewpoints, differing opinions are healthy and a really good thing. They stretch our minds, broaden our perspectives, help us understand people and their motivations just a little bit more. They make us all better in the long run...

ambernaslund.com

 

[ChumpChange]

Every person is paying for those kids, even those WITHOUT ANY kids to pay for.

It take a Village.

 

[94Nautique]

It take a Village.

More like it takes a village idiot to be the democrat politician

 

[spectra3279]

It's not free. All these kids' parents are paying for it with their tax dollars.

What about the ones who get more tax refund than they paid in? Your telling me they are paying their share

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[ChumpChange]

What about the ones who get more tax refund than they paid in? Your telling me they are paying their share

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They are paying their fair share.

 

[spectra3279]

They are paying their fair share.

But they didnt pay in as much as they are getting back? How is that fair

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[94Nautique]

What about the ones who get more tax refund than they paid in? Your telling me they are paying their share

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No shit. Over 50% of Americans actually pay 0% tax. Fucking ZERO %.

 

[Uncle Dave]

As passionate about the subject as I am, Im not sure any person can pay zero.
With taxes tacked onto everything sold it cannot be skirted fully. There is problem here to be handled for sure.

Now -

The BIGGER problem than individuals not paying - are the companies allowed to offshore TRILLIONS in untaxed money, and companies that discount, deduct, credit and loophole their ways down to zero.

That offshore money MUST be brought back and taxed.

UD

 

[squeezer]

No shit. Over 50% of Americans actually pay 0% tax. Fucking ZERO %.

Bullshit...

Its a well worn Neocon talking point that indirect taxes drive effective total tax rates way up. ( “Building permits are nothing but a tax grab. They tax my dog by making me buy a license. 60% of the cost of gasoline is taxes...”) Yes there are people who don’t pay income tax but saying 50% pay 0% tax shoots that other beloved line full of holes.

 

[94Nautique]

Bullshit...

Its a well worn Neocon talking point that indirect taxes drive effective total tax rates way up. ( “Building permits are nothing but a tax grab. They tax my dog by making me buy a license. 60% of the cost of gasoline is taxes...”) Yes there are people who don’t pay income tax but saying 50% pay 0% tax shoots that other beloved line full of holes.

You hate it when truth tells the story, but your heart was in the right place? Hate the truth hate the truth hate the truth.

anytime you tell folks to do something for someone, you have abdicated your science. Good job

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Bullshit...

Its a well worn Neocon talking point that indirect taxes drive effective total tax rates way up. ( “Building permits are nothing but a tax grab. They tax my dog by making me buy a license. 60% of the cost of gasoline is taxes...”) Yes there are people who don’t pay income tax but saying 50% pay 0% tax shoots that other beloved line full of holes.

But the poor don't buy dog licenses, they are not paying for building permits. Yea they are paying sales tax, and whatever other regressive consumption based taxes there are. We have not even begun to talk about the subset that are actually a draw on the system

 

[ChumpChange]

But they didnt pay in as much as they are getting back? How is that fair

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Government told me it was!

 

[squeezer]

You hate it when truth tells the story, but your heart was in the right place? Hate the truth hate the truth hate the truth.

anytime you tell folks to do something for someone, you have abdicated your science. Good job

Do you have any idea what you were trying to say here?

 

[squeezer]

But the poor don't buy dog licenses, they are not paying for building permits. Yea they are paying sales tax, and whatever other regressive consumption based taxes there are. We have not even begun to talk about the subset that are actually a draw on the system

Regressive consumption taxes are nearly impossible to avoid. If only there was some sort of personal income tax structure that would help offset that fact... OH Wait!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Regressive consumption taxes are nearly impossible to avoid. If only there was some sort of personal income tax structure that would help offset that fact... OH Wait!

Yet Democrats only increase the most regressive of taxes. Hmmm wonder why that is?

 

[94Nautique]

Do you have any idea what you were trying to say here?

You do not apply science. Or truth. You rely on emotion. Do it for your daughter. Emotional responses, that’s your bread and butter.

 

[94Nautique]

Regressive consumption taxes are nearly impossible to avoid. If only there was some sort of personal income tax structure that would help offset that fact... OH Wait!

Lie. They are 100% avoidable. REMOVE them. There, once again showing you only sell emotion, not logic or fact.

 

[squeezer]

Lie. They are 100% avoidable. REMOVE them. There, once again showing you only sell emotion, not logic or fact.

I would be 100% in support of removing all consumption taxes and structuring the income tax code to accommodate the difference. Keep in mind that that the personal income tax brackets would look a lot like they did in the 1950's. Everybody OK with that?

 

[squeezer]

You do not apply science. Or truth. You rely on emotion. Do it for your daughter. Emotional responses, that’s your bread and butter.

UM... Again I am going to need a translation.

What do you think you are trying to say?

 

[Uncle Dave]

Squeeze - where do you stand on thre topic and question of - kids getting fed multiple meals

Should the childless pay the same rates as those with children to feed and educate them?

Should it get cheaper and cheaper every kid? OR more expensive

Do you have kids?

UD

 

[squeezer]

Squeeze - where do you stand on thre topic and question of - kids getting fed multiple meals

Should the childless pay the same rates as those with children to feed and educate them?

Should it get cheaper and cheaper every kid? OR more expensive

Do you have kids?

UD

Two kids in school.

I would like to answer the question by pointing out that the lack of living wages associated with a lot of the jobs in our current economy are the real problem... That would be true of course but not answer your question.

Back to your question and my two kids... Two kids in a school that is in one of the more affluent divisions in our area. 40% of the kids in that school are on reduced cost or subsidized meal plans. (A large enough number of families in our school are at food risk that the principal put a call out for help when we shut down last week... His ask was for Safeway gift cards.) So lets put your question in the terms that I can directly relate to.

"Squeezer, do you think the four kids in your daughters class and three in your sons class that your tax dollars feed should go hungry?"

Two of these kids have been in my home... You can fill in my answer from there.

As far as people without kids paying the same as those with kids. First I would flat out say they don't, we spend a ton of $$$ on school stuff that was all covered back when most of us were in school. Its not some sort of subsidized free ride having kids. But the answer here is simple. The person who doesnt have kids isn't paying for my kids education, they are paying for the education they received themselves years earlier. Thats how this works, now we can all agree it could work better in some areas than it does but thats not a fundamental change as much as a fix whats wrong sort of thing.

The last question is not so much school based as it is Social Engineering. I find the tax breaks per kid comically irrelevant. We have spent enough on Daycare, Pre-school, and aftercare to make the tax breaks a rounding error. Anybody who is purposefully having kids to get tax breaks or welfare has a math deficiency.

 

[regor]

I would be 100% in support of removing all consumption taxes and structuring the income tax code to accommodate the difference. Keep in mind that that the personal income tax brackets would look a lot like they did in the 1950's. Everybody OK with that?

Here’s the deal.

When you stop spending billions of our tax dollars enabling and accommodating illegals, we’ll talk.

Until then.............

 

[Uncle Dave]

Of course people without kids dont pay for school supplies, or kid supplies in general - they chose not to, or couldn't have them.
No one every paid for my school supplies but my parents. It was a big trip to K mart every season everyone dreaded.

People without kids pay the same property tax as this with the kids and thats where a lot of the money comes from.

Would you support shifting more burden to those with kids, and reducing taxes for those that do not have them ?

So you are saying my parent paid for them and not me, and that Im paying for me not someone else - for the rest of my life.

How many times over the actual cost should my bill be for what I received?

Whats a fair living wage?


UD

 

[squeezer]

Here’s the deal.

When you stop spending billions of our tax dollars enabling and accommodating illegals, we’ll talk.

Until then.............

OK Boomer... We have to solve the Billion dollar problem before we can talk about the Trillion dollar problem.

 

[regor]

OK Boomer... We have to solve the Billion dollar problem before we can talk about the Trillion dollar problem.

That’s what I thought!!!

No deal, chew soap and I’ll continue to enjoy fucking you and your beloved guberment out of your bullshit thievery.

 

[squeezer]

Of course people without kids dont pay for school supplies, or kid supplies in general - they chose not to, or couldn't have them.
No one every paid for my school supplies but my parents. It was a big trip to K mart every season everyone dreaded.

People without kids pay the same property tax as this with the kids and thats where a lot of the money comes from.

Would you support shifting more burden to those with kids, and reducing taxes for those that do not have them ?

So you are saying my parent paid for them and not me, and that Im paying for me not someone else - for the rest of my life.

How many times over the actual cost should my bill be for what I received?

Whats a fair living wage?


UD

I am going to try and frame up the conversation more than provide definitive answers so the numbers tossed out will be approximations at best.

Assumptions:

Schools are paid for by a percentage of property taxes. (Not true in all cases but stay with me)
A person goes to 12 years of public school and every year cost the same in constant dollars.
Home owners vs renters pay at the same rate.
Home ownership starts at age 25 ends at age 75

Analysis:

The average property tax bill in the US's 84M households was $3300 in 2016. This is an average 1.15% effective rate.
(from here) https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...roperty-taxes-all-50-states-and-dc/100314754/

The average school district spends $11K per student per year. No way property taxes covers that in real time. Luckily its spread out over your 50 home ownership years.

Week 1: Why America's Schools Have A Money Problem

How much money a school can spend on its students still depends, in large part, on local property taxes. And many states aren't doing much to level the field for poor kids.

www.npr.org

A search for "What percentage of property taxes go to schools" gave numbers from 5% to 70%. Going to work with 50% just because its easy.

For any "Average" person:

12 years of school costs $132K

50 years of property taxes @50% to schools is $83K

So believe it or not you have not even paid for you own school costs let alone school for my kids. The numbers are even worse when you throw in the 50 year ownership window is most likely paying for two adults schooling.

I am sure your numbers as well as everybody else on this board are different than those above but the general idea remains the same.

 

[500bbc]

These kids parents are so fucking stupid they can't make their kid a sandwich, the social justice parasitic sub humans then enable their behavior.

Fuck Libturds

 

[regor]

I am going to try and frame up the conversation more than provide definitive answers so the numbers tossed out will be approximations at best.

Assumptions:

Schools are paid for by a percentage of property taxes. (Not true in all cases but stay with me)
A person goes to 12 years of public school and every year cost the same in constant dollars.
Home owners vs renters pay at the same rate.
Home ownership starts at age 25 ends at age 75

Analysis:

The average property tax bill in the US's 84M households was $3300 in 2016. This is an average 1.15% effective rate.
(from here) https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...roperty-taxes-all-50-states-and-dc/100314754/

The average school district spends $11K per student per year. No way property taxes covers that in real time. Luckily its spread out over your 50 home ownership years.

Week 1: Why America's Schools Have A Money Problem

How much money a school can spend on its students still depends, in large part, on local property taxes. And many states aren't doing much to level the field for poor kids.

www.npr.org

A search for "What percentage of property taxes go to schools" gave numbers from 5% to 70%. Going to work with 50% just because its easy.

For any "Average" person:

12 years of school costs $132K

50 years of property taxes @50% to schools is $83K

So believe it or not you have not even paid for you own school costs let alone school for my kids. The numbers are even worse when you throw in the 50 year ownership window is most likely paying for two adults schooling.

I am sure your numbers as well as everybody else on this board are different than those above but the general idea remains the same.

Since yore puff piece is about Chicago...............................by 2022, over 20,000 Illinois teachers/administrators will have pensions exceeding $100,000 annually.

When yore party stops greasing the pockets of their paid voters by stealing out of our pocket, we might start to give a flying fuck about yore whining piece of trash numbers.

Until then.....................

 

[Uncle Dave]

Im GenX

I am going to try and frame up the conversation more than provide definitive answers so the numbers tossed out will be approximations at best.

Assumptions:

Schools are paid for by a percentage of property taxes. (Not true in all cases but stay with me)
A person goes to 12 years of public school and every year cost the same in constant dollars.
Home owners vs renters pay at the same rate.
Home ownership starts at age 25 ends at age 75

Analysis:

The average property tax bill in the US's 84M households was $3300 in 2016. This is an average 1.15% effective rate.
(from here) https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...roperty-taxes-all-50-states-and-dc/100314754/

The average school district spends $11K per student per year. No way property taxes covers that in real time. Luckily its spread out over your 50 home ownership years.

Week 1: Why America's Schools Have A Money Problem

How much money a school can spend on its students still depends, in large part, on local property taxes. And many states aren't doing much to level the field for poor kids.

www.npr.org

A search for "What percentage of property taxes go to schools" gave numbers from 5% to 70%. Going to work with 50% just because its easy.

For any "Average" person:

12 years of school costs $132K

50 years of property taxes @50% to schools is $83K

So believe it or not you have not even paid for you own school costs let alone school for my kids. The numbers are even worse when you throw in the 50 year ownership window is most likely paying for two adults schooling.

I am sure your numbers as well as everybody else on this board are different than those above but the general idea remains the same.

hmmm...not so sure.

My 12 years spanned 73-85, but the dollars I pay in are todays dollars

It isnt just property tax that pays for schooling but thats the easiest one to burden shift.

When including the federal, state and prop tax burden - I have indeed paid my 12 years and then a handsome amount past that.

In constant 89-90 dollars it was 5K a kid bring the 12 year total to 60 on the high end for me calculated at 1990 cost so in all reality my total schooling cost was probably closer to 50K.

So you feel it's fair to burden the childless identically because they aren't paying for anything other than what they received?

UD

 

[squeezer]

Snip’

So you feel it's fair to burden the childless identically because they aren't paying for anything other than what they received?

UD

I’m not going to argue the numbers any more specifically as every situation is different. Just wanted to make the point that the average person is not paying all that much more $$$ for school than what they used. You certainly could be, I know I am and don’t mind.

As far as the “Burden on the Childless” of school taxes I reject the premise of the argument from the outset. Every single one of us benefits from the public education system in this country. An advanced society/economy/culture needs an educated population.

Now if you want to make the argument that we could be getting more for our $$$ I would agree. I would also make a case for an even greater investment than we are making now as the rest of the world has closed the gap in most cases and exceeded us in others from an educated population standpoint. This is not a problem that is solved by throwing $$$ at the system without some significant overhaul.

 

[94Nautique]

Im GenX


hmmm...not so sure.

My 12 years spanned 73-85, but the dollars I pay in are todays dollars

It isnt just property tax that pays for schooling but thats the easiest one to burden shift.

When including the federal, state and prop tax burden - I have indeed paid my 12 years and then a handsome amount past that.

In constant 89-90 dollars it was 5K a kid bring the 12 year total to 60 on the high end for me calculated at 1990 cost so in all reality my total schooling cost was probably closer to 50K.

So you feel it's fair to burden the childless identically because they aren't paying for anything other than what they received?

UD
View attachment 859021 View attachment 859021

That's the socialist way, everyone pays their "fair share" and the govt defines "fair share." And the govt defines what they get paid, and will complain 24/7 even that is not enough.

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[squeezer]

That's the socialist way, everyone pays their "fair share" and the govt defines "fair share." And the govt defines what they get paid, and will complain 24/7 even that is not enough.

Sent from my SM-T387V using Tapatalk

Yes it is the “Socialist Way”.

Schools
Roads
Sewers
Police
Fire Departments
Military
ATC

(Literally 1000’s of other service and infrastructure categories)

I say we cut the Military budget first as it’s obviously the least bang for the buck...

 

[Uncle Dave]

I’m not going to argue the numbers any more specifically as every situation is different. Just wanted to make the point that the average person is not paying all that much more $$$ for school than what they used. You certainly could be, I know I am and don’t mind.

As far as the “Burden on the Childless” of school taxes I reject the premise of the argument from the outset. Every single one of us benefits from the public education system in this country. An advanced society/economy/culture needs an educated population.

Now if you want to make the argument that we could be getting more for our $$$ I would agree. I would also make a case for an even greater investment than we are making now as the rest of the world has closed the gap in most cases and exceeded us in others from an educated population standpoint. This is not a problem that is solved by throwing $$$ at the system without some significant overhaul.

You dont care if Im paid up- you think I should keep on paying for everyone else regardless.
You dont care if couple decides not to have children they should pay for the " good of society"

I never advocated having an uneducated society.

I advocate people owning their choices and not getting both a discount on their taxes and the ability to to send the their bills to others.
Fact is - The childless are disproportionally burdened with the good of society.

Agreed - according to the many sources we pay the most per child yet our scholastic rating isnt even top ten last I checked.
Given more money doesnt make the rank go up I think every dime should be scrutinized.

UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

Yes it is the “Socialist Way”.

Schools
Roads
Sewers
Police
Fire Departments
Military
ATC

(Literally 1000’s of other service and infrastructure categories)

I say we cut the Military budget first as it’s obviously the least bang for the buck...

Got no problem paying for the services I use. (whats the right price is always a question)

Got a problem subsidizing others reproductive choices while they get a break for being irresponsible.

I think we spend way too much on military - and its about time to pull back the entire 5th fleet.
We dont need arab oil anymore let them spend the money to protect it.

UD

 

[94Nautique]

Yes it is the “Socialist Way”.

Schools
Roads
Sewers
Police
Fire Departments
Military
ATC

(Literally 1000’s of other service and infrastructure categories)

I say we cut the Military budget first as it’s obviously the least bang for the buck...

Of all the things you listed defense is the only constitutional thing.

Good job, lib. Suck the world dry to pay for your agenda. Go comrade go

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[TeamGreene]

I've been seeing this in every news story since this CV started closing down schools.

I have to say that it's pretty sickening that people can't or won't feed their own kids. This whole deal just happened to occur right around spring break, what was their plan to feed them during this time? I don't believe for a second that people are so destitute that they can't afford to feed their kids.

If in fact they are they had better not have -

1. Smart phone
2. Drink or smoke
3. Have a pet of any kind
4. Driving a new vehicle............etc

If these folks are that poor they are already on/have assistance in the form of EBT, welfare, section 8 housing and they can't provide a lunch?

This is all bullshit. I don't want to hear any crap about people not making enough to live, guess what? THEN DON"T HAVE A FUCKING KID!!!!!!!!!

 

[Uncle Dave]

The taxpayers have been funding free phones for a long time. Good chance about every kid at 12 and up has a phone.

 

[94Nautique]

The taxpayers have been funding free phones for a long time. Good chance about every kid at 12 and up has a phone.

So we should foot that bill too?

 

[Uncle Dave]

So we should foot that bill too?

No.

UD

 

[The Phantom]

Bullshit...

Its a well worn Neocon talking point that indirect taxes drive effective total tax rates way up. ( “Building permits are nothing but a tax grab. They tax my dog by making me buy a license. 60% of the cost of gasoline is taxes...”) Yes there are people who don’t pay income tax but saying 50% pay 0% tax shoots that other beloved line full of holes.

I believe the secret to your success is, you don’t check your facts before you make your post, I guess that’s what makes you so funny.

 

[The Phantom]

I’m not going to argue the numbers any more specifically as every situation is different. Just wanted to make the point that the average person is not paying all that much more $$$ for school than what they used. You certainly could be, I know I am and don’t mind.

As far as the “Burden on the Childless” of school taxes I reject the premise of the argument from the outset. Every single one of us benefits from the public education system in this country. An advanced society/economy/culture needs an educated population.

Now if you want to make the argument that we could be getting more for our $$$ I would agree. I would also make a case for an even greater investment than we are making now as the rest of the world has closed the gap in most cases and exceeded us in others from an educated population standpoint. This is not a problem that is solved by throwing $$$ at the system without some significant overhaul.

I’m not sure that you benefited from the public education system. I don’t care how good an education system you have if the people aren’t willing to learn it all means nothing.

 

[The Phantom]

Do you have any idea what you were trying to say here?

I will explain for you Mr. Squeezer.

You never let the truth get in the way when you’re spewing bullshit. Clear and concise.

 

[The Phantom]

Yes it is the “Socialist Way”.

Schools
Roads
Sewers
Police
Fire Departments
Military
ATC

(Literally 1000’s of other service and infrastructure categories)

I say we cut the Military budget first as it’s obviously the least bang for the buck...

I say you cut your wrists that would be even better. Of course you know I’m just joking have a wonderful weekend sir.

 

[The Phantom]

Just how might that plan look?

Less bean wads in the country would be a good start.

 

[The Phantom]

First of all, collection of resources, management of risk and allocation of benefit is how we function at a capitalistic society. Not having kids is a personal choice, in many cases. The short answer to your question is "public good". You are not being fucked your are contributing the the public good, which is in your best interest.

By your rational, the entire insurance industry should cease to exist. People would have no coverage and only pay for their mistakes and misfortune. However, we all know managing resources and pooling risk works but it comes at a cost. That cost is spread among all, some more than others. I'm a big fan of having skin in the game but there will always be those that skirt the system. The current tax reform has done nothing to ensure that those on bottom, typically the receiving end, are paying their share or at least something. As for illegals, they shouldn't be here. BUT if they are, they need access to education and healthcare while their here. Again, because in is the best interest of all.

Of course we should reward the illegals for breaking the law. And that’s why they come here.
I wonder how may of those illegals you support in your household? I’m sure it’s in your best interest.