I know some of you follow MX, what do you think of the Deegan drama (claiming rule) at Loretta's?

[RichieRich]

looks like the kid is now on KTM

 

[RichieRich]

My guess is that deagan was running a big bore kit and if that engine was to be cracked open deagan would be disqualifed and actually loose the race. It would also be the reason they swapped engines the next day and ran a stock engine so they wouldn't get caught. Pretty easy to read between the lines if you have raced before. The factory doesn't care about "secret parts" next years factor engines will have all new secret parts so those are already outdated by the time they can copy them. Yamaha does care if there star rider gets disqualified for cheating with there engines.

it would have been a lot cheaper to protest him then instead of trying to claim the entire bike...a protest is $250-$400

 

[outboard_256]

it would have been a lot cheaper to protest him then instead of trying to claim the entire bike...a protest is $250-$400

That wasn't the kids goal. He just wanted to ride the bike. I think that's why the deagans made such a big deal once they found out they might be cought.

 

[Canuck 1]

kid- claimed the bike (hes had beef with deegan before this at a couple races)

kids motor builder- is leading the way. he wanted the bike to pull it apart, hes know to do sketchy things


yamaha rep( donnie luce)-pulled kid aside to talk about why he was doing it. kid said his yamahas arent reliable. donnie told him they would send him motors.
matt walker(trainer) got a call from the dealer owner that supports the kid and tells him he doesnt support this and to go talk to the kid. he wants no part of this.
matt walker( kids trainer) told him no to claim the bike as it will ruin his name.
yamaha rep/ trainer talk to kids dad. claim is dropped.


there was claims donnie called the dealer and told them they were gonna pull yamaha affiliation. donnie says he didnt.


once the claim was dropped the sick ngar gnar DEEGANS had the STAR motor taken out of the bike a put a GYTR motor in it for his last 2 motos and he still waxed everyone.

got it from PULPmx. steve had all these guys on his show last monday.

@Duramax @Badchoices03

Donnie is fibbing

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

looks like the kid is now on KTM View attachment 1147375

Good outcome for him. I bet he wont want to "ride" the top KTM bike and claim it this time.

 

[Badchoices03]

My guess is that deagan was running a big bore kit and if that engine was to be cracked open deagan would be disqualifed and actually loose the race. It would also be the reason they swapped engines the next day and ran a stock engine so they wouldn't get caught. Pretty easy to read between the lines if you have raced before. The factory doesn't care about "secret parts" next years factor engines will have all new secret parts so those are already outdated by the time they can copy them. Yamaha does care if there star rider gets disqualified for cheating with there engines.

If he thought he was cheating, he would have just protested him for $500..

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

That wasn't the kids goal. He just wanted to ride the bike. I think that's why the deagans made such a big deal once they found out they might be cought.

You don't spend $17K for "ride"

 

[was thatguy]

it would have been a lot cheaper to protest him then instead of trying to claim the entire bike...a protest is $250-$400

The kid wanted the bike. He never mentioned cheating anywhere that I saw.
He saved up money to claim it if his story is to be believed.

 

[was thatguy]

You don't spend $17K for "ride"

Lol
What have you spent on a race car or engine??
I know I’ll never tell the truth about that!! Lol

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

funny...my kid also races an 85 in those series as well as a lot of AMA stuff. You guys racing this weekend at Fox?

No, too hot and I need a break from it. We will probably do that last race of the triple crown, but I really want to wait for 78 degree weather. My son is just in the beginner classes, not novice. He just turned 10, so I'm hoping to wait for novice for a couple years as that gets much more expensive.

 

[OC Mike]

looks like the kid is now on KTM View attachment 1147375

Life just got better for him......

 

[RichieRich]

The kid wanted the bike. He never mentioned cheating anywhere that I saw.
He saved up money to claim it if his story is to be believed.

I agree...just saying that if that is what he thought he would have just protested.
the kid should have the bike today...AMA screwed this up

 

[Tobester]

2 times the MSRP of the stock bike that can be purchased at any dealership. You can't buy factory bikes as they are for marketing. Actually, I was told by a factory racer, you could buy a factory bike, but it would probably be about $250,000. MSRP is on the website.

I have not read the rule so I am just throwing this out there -

If it is a "Stock" bike that determines the MSRP what would you do with a KTM? They have a stock 450 and then they also sell a "Factory Edition" with aftermarket parts. Two different MSRPs. Which MSRP would be applied? I would assume whatever purchase price is on the invoice would determine the value for a claim. But what if there is not invoice to establish a claim amount?

Amateur has changed in the recent years. Most manufactures use to support amateur teams separate from their professional teams. Orange Brigade transition to KTM, Team Green transition to Pro Circuit, Amsoil transition to Geico. It seems professional teams are getting their hooks into riders earlier than ever before. Haiden and Ryder D. for example.

Again, without reading the rules, there maybe loop holes that needs to be reviewed as support for amateur racing is changing. Honestly, I'm just trying to understand the rule better...

 

[evantwheeler]

My son just turned 10 and races beginner 85 classes in Swap Moto and sometimes Moto4Kids. My son has a couple bikes, but other than pipe and silencer, clutch and changing the piston, it's pretty much stock. With that said, he races against 105's and 112's in a lot of races. I've heard parents talk about it and I have a friend parent that told me flat out. One bike is so modded it has to cool down after 5-7 laps.

My son still pulls 2nd wins and has been 1st a couple times. However, I am going to build a backup 105 engine and see if it helps just for my knowledge.

I will say the hardest thing is not the power for the straights or flats, having the power to clear big gaps is the most important part. If one kid can only clear a double, but another kid can clear a triple that can add up in 5 laps.

I would have liked to see that kid get Deegan's bike. He should have taken it. Yamaha wouldn't have stopped shipping bikes to his sponsor.

Also, Yamaha's suck! Their 2022 is better than 2021, but still short of KTM/Husky/Gas Gas unless they are factory.

At 10 years old, suspension setup, cornering, and endurance to hang on and push it 100% all race long will make a kid dramatically faster than dumping money into the motor.

Ty Birdwell taught a day long class at my local track in Washington when i was like 13 or 14. I was just a scrub who loved riding with a nice little track in my parent field who wanted to race locally for fun. He said you corner for dough and jump for show. With that change in mindset and his cornering techniques, i went from racing as a beginner and getting bumped to junior right after the class, did 1 race at junior and also whopped ass, and right to intermediate. I never worked on endurance though and i never finished a race where I wasnt praying for it to end because i could barely hold on to the bars due to arm pump.

 

[Duramax]

It is crazy for sure, and it is a horrible look for all the ADULTS involved.

I used to think Brian's daughter was the star, but she is just a Youtuber now with ok finishes.

Haiden is a beast, regardless of bike.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Lol
What have you spent on a race car or engine??
I know I’ll never tell the truth about that!! Lol

That’s what I mean.. he wanted to compete with it. If he thought they were “cheating” he just would have protested them.

It was a crazy value for the bike at 2x MSRP. Regardless if it was "works" or not, it was a "factory" ++ bike.

Spec Miata racing is pretty popular, they are all supposed to be the same. There are $10K "Spec" Miatas and there are $50K "Spec" Miatas

As far as what I have spent on racing equipment... those receipts were lost in a tragic boating accident along with all of my firearms.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

It is crazy for sure, and it is a horrible look for all the ADULTS involved.

I used to think Brian's daughter was the star, but she is just a Youtuber now with ok finishes.

Haiden is a beast, regardless of bike.

A pretty face is always going to rake in the $$$.

 

[Tommy Gun Images]

I really don’t think this is about works parts as much as buying a factory race bike for a deal. They could have protested him and cracked open the motor right there if they wanted to prove the bike was a cheater. It’s a trick ass bike and the kid wanted it. On top of that I’m sure a couple people in his corner were curious about it as well.
What interesting is how far they (Deegan and co.) went to reverse the claim. Regardless it’s just racing drama and the Am Nats are stocked full of it every year.

 

[OC Mike]

Complete Shit show..
Kid's got stones of an elephant.
I wish him well at whatever he does................

 

[dribble]

I have not read the rule so I am just throwing this out there -

If it is a "Stock" bike that determines the MSRP what would you do with a KTM? They have a stock 450 and then they also sell a "Factory Edition" with aftermarket parts. Two different MSRPs. Which MSRP would be applied? I would assume whatever purchase price is on the invoice would determine the value for a claim. But what if there is not invoice to establish a claim amount?

Amateur has changed in the recent years. Most manufactures use to support amateur teams separate from their professional teams. Orange Brigade transition to KTM, Team Green transition to Pro Circuit, Amsoil transition to Geico. It seems professional teams are getting their hooks into riders earlier than ever before. Haiden and Ryder D. for example.

Again, without reading the rules, there maybe loop holes that needs to be reviewed as support for amateur racing is changing. Honestly, I'm just trying to understand the rule better...

Wouldn't matter. A Factory edition 450 is 11,999.00. A stock KTM is 10,699.00. 2600.00 is not going to make or break a claim

 

[bowtiejunkie]

Here’s the AMA claiming rules for motocross racing. J1 is how the MSRP value is determined. A supplement increases the amount to 2x for the subject race. This went down terribly for many involved. Seems like the kid’s reputation hasn’t been tarnished too bad since he picked up a KTM pretty quick!

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

I think it will be interesting to see if Star Yamaha puts Haiden on another factory bike as more riders may take advantage of this rule now that's it's very well known. A lot of this kids parents have plenty of money and if their child is running mid pack, who wouldn't throw $17,000 just to get a known top contender bike.

I think it will also be interesting to see if Haiden dominates like he was if they just put him on a cost effective Yamaha without all the R&D.

Furthermore, would Haiden ride for Yamaha without the top factory bike. Maybe they will want to part ways.

This will be interesting for the rest of the season.

 

[EmpirE231]

I think it will be interesting to see if Star Yamaha puts Haiden on another factory bike as more riders may take advantage of this rule now that's it's very well known. A lot of this kids parents have plenty of money and if their child is running mid pack, who wouldn't throw $17,000 just to get a known top contender bike.

I think it will also be interesting to see if Haiden dominates like he was if they just put him on a cost effective Yamaha without all the R&D.

Furthermore, would Haiden ride for Yamaha without the top factory bike. Maybe they will want to part ways.

This will be interesting for the rest of the season.

Rumors are the Deegan might be racing the last 2 rounds of motocross..... If so, we'll see how he stacks up against the Lawrence brothers, and rest of the field.

 

[joecfd1]

Not just him. Hailey had a lot going on in the Jr2 and Mod Kart classes as well. Called it out a few times and Good ol' Lee just brushed it under the rug. Like I said earlier, that name sell tickets!

I saw "Good ol' Lee" throw old Brian Deegan out of Glen Helen one night... team and all... I will say Lee is was one of the most unbiased and reasonable race directors that I've ever run across.

 

[Badchoices03]

I think it will be interesting to see if Star Yamaha puts Haiden on another factory bike as more riders may take advantage of this rule now that's it's very well known. A lot of this kids parents have plenty of money and if their child is running mid pack, who wouldn't throw $17,000 just to get a known top contender bike.

I think it will also be interesting to see if Haiden dominates like he was if they just put him on a cost effective Yamaha without all the R&D.

Furthermore, would Haiden ride for Yamaha without the top factory bike. Maybe they will want to part ways.

This will be interesting for the rest of the season.

I bet you that's the reason they pulled the motor and replaced it with a more standard motor, afraid that someone else would claim it after his last race...

 

[81eliminator]

My question is...who or what determines the value of the bike? Kid claimed it for $17k. Most likely Deegans bike has never had a bill of sale if it came straight from the factory. Is there even an invoice for it at that level? Most factory riders do not own their bikes.
A car dealerships final MSRP varies a lot after "factory upgrades". Wouldn't a factory Yamaha bike value be assessed after the "factory upgrades"? If I were the Deegans, that would have been my approach. To inflate the price of the bike and make it unobtainable for the kid. Unless the claiming rules say something like "double the price of the national average stock motorcycle".
I am also not aware if at registration you have to state the value of the bike. That would kill my argument.

MSRP for a stock bike times 2.

 

[SJP]

Did the guys @ Loretta work Helltrack and US Yamaha CEO for Mongoose in the 80s?

 

[HCP3]

Well, everyone involved with the LOORS off road series knows Deegan cheated big time in the Pro Lite class so we know where he stands on the subject.....

Let's hear it.

 

[FCT]

At 10 years old, suspension setup, cornering, and endurance to hang on and push it 100% all race long will make a kid dramatically faster than dumping money into the motor.

Ty Birdwell taught a day long class at my local track in Washington when i was like 13 or 14. I was just a scrub who loved riding with a nice little track in my parent field who wanted to race locally for fun. He said you corner for dough and jump for show. With that change in mindset and his cornering techniques, i went from racing as a beginner and getting bumped to junior right after the class, did 1 race at junior and also whopped ass, and right to intermediate. I never worked on endurance though and i never finished a race where I wasnt praying for it to end because i could barely hold on to the bars due to arm pump.

you’re a pacwest guy!?
You buddy’s with mike corder? Tye fick? Metzlers? Tiger Lacey? We need to go have a beer bud

 

[evantwheeler]

you’re a pacwest guy!?
You buddy’s with mike corder? Tye fick? Metzlers? Tiger Lacey? We need to go have a beer bud

None of those names ring a bell, I stopped riding in 2001. Ryan Villopoto whoopped my ass on a KX65 when I was on a CR80 big wheel in Supermini! I was just a local scrub, never raced outside of the track in Port Angeles WA, but I made lots of good memories and had a bunch of fun. From my area, the Christensen brothers, Emery and Colin, and Jake Anstett were the best riders that travelled outside the area. Jake rode some arena cross and I think tried to qualify for Seattle SX a couple times, but he was quite a bit younger than me so didn't know him other than from watching him whoop on kids on his minibike.

 

[rmarion]

no matter what...

still gotta have the stones to twist the throttle and NOT LET OFF...
so much more... tires, tire pressure, gearing, oh did I say gearing, suspension setup....

still comes down to. who has the better RIGHT HAND...

if that throttle is PINNED 100% of the time... then talk about about Mods...

Enjoy!!!

AWESOME SPORT .. someone is always FASTER......

some riders feel more comfortable on different tracks... dirt (hard, soft, sand etc), layout, etc.

 

[riverroyal]

looks like the kid is now on KTM View attachment 1147375

What a big 'fuck you' to yamaha and that dealershit.
Ktm is from a dealer with 2 locations. Which happens to sell yamahas. So did yamaha tell the original dealer they would pull bikes or?
What a shit show.

 

[dribble]

Rumors are the Deegan might be racing the last 2 rounds of motocross..... If so, we'll see how he stacks up against the Lawrence brothers, and rest of the field.

He will come into his own at some point but until then the Lawrence brothers, Cooper and Shimoda will school him.

 

[rmarion]

the Kid represented himself well in the video..

no disrespect was shown to all parties involved....

IMO Star Yamaha is who shit the BED....

Rules are Rules...

 

[Uncle Dave]

So if you refuse to sell YOUR bike that IS NOT for sale, you get banned?

Would you enter a claimer race and expect the rules wouldn't apply to you?

 

[Your ad here]

Would you enter a claimer race and expect the rules wouldn't apply to you?

No. Rules apply to everyone. I dont follow sports and didn't know such a rule existed. I'm kinda shocked at the rule because it seems like if you're on a winning streak with a bike you've gotten used to, someone could just come along, buy it, then you have to get acclimated to another bike which could cost some wins. Based on the bike being legal. Seems like a way to buy some wins rather than just become a better rider. I've ridden stock for stock same bikes and noticed a difference.

 

[Dan Lorenze]

It doesn't matter WHY he made a claim, it doesn't matter HOW he came up with the money, it doesn't matter who wanted him to make the claim....he made a legal claim, did everything by their rules, had the cash ready to go....and he got pressured and threatened by Deegan and Yamaha to drop the claim....

Truth…

 

[Uncle Dave]

No. Rules apply to everyone. I dont follow sports and didn't know such a rule existed. I'm kinda shocked at the rule because it seems like if you're on a winning streak with a bike you've gotten used to, someone could just come along, buy it, then you have to get acclimated to another bike which could cost some wins. Based on the bike being legal. Seems like a way to buy some wins rather than just become a better rider. I've ridden stock for stock same bikes and noticed a difference.

Claimer races are typically non pro classes, or classes where affordability is critical so that a league can insure enough participants to keep the sport alive and somewhat competitive

Whats to keep the rich kids dad from dumping 50K into a race bike to buy his kid the fastest ride down the back straight in a novice or intermediate class?

Whats to keep a factory from backing a talented kid and putting their thumb on the competitiveness scale by giving him a high zoot unobtanium framed laser guided vertically loaded plasma cooled machine that blasts away the regular kids with showroom bikes?

The ability to claim his ride for double MSRP is what prevents that and keeps it moderately fair.

You want to play in the unlimited money leagues - ride in a non claimer league.

 

[HBCraig]

Not a Deegan fan at all and this reassures my feelings. I have a buddy in the industry that said Deegan and Star had at least 100k into this bike. Star and Yamaha USA basically bullied all the parties. Screw Deegan for all this shit. He didn't need to get after that kid that way.

 

[Uncle Dave]

No. Rules apply to everyone. I dont follow sports and didn't know such a rule existed. I'm kinda shocked at the rule because it seems like if you're on a winning streak with a bike you've gotten used to, someone could just come along, buy it, then you have to get acclimated to another bike which could cost some wins. Based on the bike being legal. Seems like a way to buy some wins rather than just become a better rider. I've ridden stock for stock same bikes and noticed a difference.

Claiming has an incredibly long history in many motorsports. League, brackets, and even tracks sometimes have claiming rules.
Lots of claim races have handshake deals not to claim.
I got my first lesson on this at a sprint car race in Indiana with my grandpa in 74 when one team started pulling a motor right after a race while the other team watched.

There are/were all kinds of claim wars, fights, and issues with this as long as its been around.
Claiming a bike is one thing - you hand over the bike.
Claim an engine is another it was customary for the claimer to have to pay not only for the engine but the removal and install time at a fixed rate.

This lead to factory motors and the motor guys being on site or having a replacement ready.
No point in claiming a stock Shaver /Gaerte sprint car motor when they are all the same.
Ok if you want to pay an I/O premium plus a premium for the motor Ill just go get a new Gaerte 360 to replace this 360.

 

[was thatguy]

As a teenager I used to wish someone would claim my bike!
I was never real good and only ever raced amateur classes.
Had a 250 MX all tricked out with more travel than the YZ or RM. I did all that at my high school metal shop and at my career center trade classes.
I had no money and had to beg my dad to even haul me to the races.
If I coulda had it claimed I coulda bought a YZ!