If yore into engine porn

[ElAzul]

Click here and good luck
http://indycompetition.com/engines--engine-parts.html

 

[rrrr]

This is a good deal...

Cosworth Ford DFX engine - $30,000

But the problem with it is that a working CPU for the DFX is almost impossible to find. They were built in pre-microprocessor days, and operate with TTL logic.

Many of the remaining CPUs are crash damaged units that have been repaired. The circuit boards that have been fixed are often unreliable. The same issue affects rebuilt Ilmor (badged as Chevrolet) IndyCar engines of that era.

 

[cold_one]

Sweet

 

[02HoWaRd26]

How fun would that 533” be in a boat, cruising at 5500, cause you could run a small prop as you still have another 2500+ rpm to go.

 

[3queens]

 

[Blackmagic94]

This is a good deal...

Cosworth Ford DFX engine - $30,000

But the problem with it is that a working CPU for the DFX is almost impossible to find. They were built in pre-microprocessor days, and operate with TTL logic.

Many of the remaining CPUs are crash damaged units that have been repaired. The circuit boards that have been fixed are often unreliable. The same issue affects rebuilt Ilmor (badged as Chevrolet) IndyCar engines of that era.

New harness with motec yo

 

[rrrr]

New harness with motec yo

Crank triggers and other sensors on the Cosworth have to be replaced for that. It's not as easy as one might think.

Another issue with legacy CPUs/ECUs is that the engine management and chassis sensor telemetry is communicated to legacy laptops that are running MSDOS software for the task. These programs won't run on 32 bit operating systems.

There's a shortage of these computers and the software. Again, changing the sensors and telemetry to a modern system requires effort and expense. Most legacy chassis sensors use analog values, and the ECU has analog to digital signal converters.

The ECUs were built with TTL, transistor to transistor logic. These platforms use integrated circuit chips, resistor/capacitor circuits, inductors, and other legacy electronic functions to operate with Boolean logic. Microprocessors and CANbus did not become commonplace until the mid 90s.

Many owners of classic race cars want to keep the vehicles in their as raced configuration for historic accuracy. If they have, for example, a March 84C IndyCar, there are only so many parts available to restore them. The Pi Systems electronics and telemetry of the 80s are increasingly rare and hard to find.

 

[ElAzul]

Crank triggers and other sensors on the Cosworth have to be replaced for that. It's not as easy as one might think.

Another issue with legacy CPUs/ECUs is that the engine management and chassis sensor telemetry is communicated to legacy laptops that are running MSDOS software for the task. These programs won't run on 32 bit operating systems.

There's a shortage of these computers and the software. Again, changing the sensors and telemetry to a modern system requires effort and expense. Most legacy chassis sensors use analog values, and the ECU has analog to digital signal converters.

The ECUs were built with TTL, transistor to transistor logic. These platforms use integrated circuit chips, resistor/capacitor circuits, inductors, and other legacy electronic functions to operate with Boolean logic. Microprocessors and CANbus did not become commonplace until the mid 90s.

Many owners of classic race cars want to keep the vehicles in their as raced configuration for historic accuracy. If they have, for example, a March 84C IndyCar, there are only so many parts available to restore them. The Pi Systems electronics and telemetry of the 80s are increasingly rare and hard to find.

Sounds like old eprom type stuff or not I have no clue what I'm talking about haha

 

[rrrr]

Sounds like old eprom type stuff or not I have no clue what I'm talking about haha

The systems do use EEPROM chips. They hold read only memory information.

 

[ElAzul]

The systems do use EEPROM chips. They hold read only memory information.

Yeah that's what I meant haha

 

[ElAzul]

On that note @rrrr are they recapping the Lucas CD boxes I saw on there as well? Indy/F1 stuff is legit fascinating to me. Whole other world of performance and tech I know little about

 

[pronstar]

Reminds me of the ancient laptops McLaren reportedly still has to use to connect to, and maintain, the F1 super car

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[rrrr]

Reminds me of the ancient laptops McLaren reportedly still has to use to connect to, and maintain, the F1 super car

View attachment 1010171


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That's very similar to the issue I posted about. Crazy stuff. Thanks for finding it.

 

[rrrr]

On that note @rrrr are they recapping the Lucas CD boxes I saw on there as well? Indy/F1 stuff is legit fascinating to me. Whole other world of performance and tech I know little about

I don't know about that specific system, but I'm going to guess a CDI module is much easier to modernize than an ECU. The CDI module is pretty simple. It's basically a capacitor bank, with an external trigger from a crankshaft reluctor that drives MOSFET amplifiers, and they fire the capacitors.

I quit working on TTL electronics in 1994, and went on to other things. My memories of how they work has faded, I'm now just a Viejo Gordo.

 

[Racey]

I don't know about that specific system, but I'm going to guess a CDI module is much easier to modernize than an ECU. The CDI module is pretty simple. It's basically a capacitor bank, with an external trigger from a crankshaft reluctor that drives MOSFET amplifiers, and they fire the capacitors.

I quit working on TTL electronics in 1994, and went on to other things. My memories of how they work has faded, I'm now just a Viejo Gordo.

It wouldn't be a huge deal to convert to modern motec, even the crank/cam triggers. Might possibly be able to retain the existing trigger system even. You'd definitely change to modern injectors as the old ones were pretty archaic, that may pose the greater amount of work as the injectors on it are most likely "pre standards" in their dimensions and mounting.

I have retrofitted some pretty weird engines over the years. Not the end of the world, an nothing a little money and machining can't solve

Edit: Also forgot to add that the TTL vs Microprocessor issue is somewhat irrelevant since all modern EFI systems have continued to use the legacy TTL 0-5vdc digital and analog inputs even though the microprocessors themselves operate at much lower voltages, they have interface circuitry that translates the 0-5v sources to voltage levels accepted by the computer chip itself. This is probably due to the fact that there was an abundance or sensors already designed to operate at TTL standards and it was much easier to to just build an interface into the board and use off the shelf sensors than to create thousands of new sensors from scratch.

 

[rrrr]

It wouldn't be a huge deal to convert to modern motec, even the crank/cam triggers. Might possibly be able to retain the existing trigger system even. You'd definitely change to modern injectors as the old ones were pretty archaic, that may pose the greater amount of work as the injectors on it are most likely "pre standards" in their dimensions and mounting.

I have retrofitted some pretty weird engines over the years. Not the end of the world, an nothing a little money and machining can't solve

Edit: Also forgot to add that the TTL vs Microprocessor issue is somewhat irrelevant since all modern EFI systems have continued to use the legacy TTL 0-5vdc digital and analog inputs even though the microprocessors themselves operate at much lower voltages, they have interface circuitry that translates the 0-5v sources to voltage levels accepted by the computer chip itself. This is probably due to the fact that there was an abundance or sensors already designed to operate at TTL standards and it was much easier to to just build an interface into the board and use off the shelf sensors than to create thousands of new sensors from scratch.

I'm just reporting known issues with legacy Cosworth and Ilmor engines. I suppose a lot of that is driven by period correct restorations.

If you take a look at the engines and cars for sale on the Indy Competition Services website, you'll see that many of the ads state an ECU is or is not included. It's among the first questions a buyer will ask.

 

[Racey]

I'm just reporting known issues with legacy Cosworth and Ilmor engines. I suppose a lot of that is driven by period correct restorations.

If you take a look at the engines and cars for sale on the Indy Competition Services website, you'll see that many of the ads state an ECU is or is not included. It's among the first questions a buyer will ask.

I don't doubt it, and buyer's will vary as to what they expect.

Personally I'd rather have modern electronics hidden and keep the mechanical bits happy and running properly over having some funky old computer and associated components that end up failing and causing mass damage

What's kinda crazy to believe is that we are now at a point where "period correct" includes computers and electronics

 

[SBMech]

It's not as bad as you would think, you can find specialists who will integrate systems for you. Racecar stuff is still based upon regular old basics, supply it fuel and air mixed properly, a way to ignite it, and mechanical timing with compression and it will run.

If it worked at all, finding a solution is just a matter of combing through enough information and sources to find the answer. Interestingly enough, I usually find that someone else has done the work for me, just need to track them down.

The same principals are still applicable, it still needs voltage, a fuel, an ignition source, and a way to time the events. The engine won't know of you are using something different, it will run just fine as long as you meet it's needs. MOTEC and other custom companies are out there to help.

 

[zbudman]

Work stuff

 

[rrrr]

Personally I'd rather have modern electronics hidden and keep the mechanical bits happy and running properly over having some funky old computer and associated components that end up failing and causing mass damage

What's kinda crazy to believe is that we are now at a point where "period correct" includes computers and electronics

I suppose it's not a great idea to depend on forty year old ICs to run a $60,000 engine at 10,000 RPM. Maybe they are changed out for new ones, although I'd be suspicious of new Chinese chips. It's likely the electrolytic capacitors in those ECUs are replaced. They dry out and fail after this many years.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Did someone say engine porn?

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

 

[rrrr]

Sweet baby Jesus!

A two stroke?

 

[SBMech]

Sweet baby Jesus!

A two stroke?

Indeed, I am at a loss...no idea what that monster is!?!?!

I consider myself fairly well educated in engines in general, never seen a 2 stroke V8!

Thus again my mantra is complete for today, pay attention enough, and you will learn something every day!

Details please JWR!

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Sweet baby Jesus!

A two stroke?

Indeed, I am at a loss...no idea what that monster is!?!?!

First post AAEN based motor, was going into a legends type car last I heard. Right around 3000cc's

Second one is actually an evenrude based engine(if I remember right) in a "Volkswagen" of sorts!


2strokes are a passion of mine!

Figured people might laugh. I'll dig up some other pics if I can find them. A buddy of mine did a billet V8 block and custom cyls with handconed pipes that went into a 35(or something) Ford. It was close to 5000cc's

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Ported a few 2strokes

 

[zbudman]

Work stuff

 

[zbudman]

One more

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Work stuff View attachment 1010569

One more View attachment 1010570

Alan Johnson is an amazing man, imo!

 

[ElAzul]

One more View attachment 1010570

You work at AJPE? I've torched a few sets of his heads and more

 

[ElAzul]

Alan Johnson is an amazing man, imo!

Can't leave out Brad Anderson, Dan Olsen and a slew of others but yes Alan is the man. Always wondered what they would have accomplished if Blaine was still alive.

 

[zbudman]

You work at AJPE? I've torched a few sets of his heads and more

I do his shipping, receiving and inventory. We’ve been friends for years so I went to work for him after retiring from SB County

 

[Racey]

Indeed, I am at a loss...no idea what that monster is!?!?!

I consider myself fairly well educated in engines in general, never seen a 2 stroke V8!

Thus again my mantra is complete for today, pay attention enough, and you will learn something every day!

Details please JWR!

A good friend of mine had a 2 stroke V8 Evinrude outboard motor in his sand car.

 

[SBMech]

A good friend of mine had a 2 stroke V8 Evinrude outboard motor in his sand car.

Hah...I always forget whackers!