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If you choose not to Vaccinate....

SNiC Jet

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JUSTWANNARACE

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I did not advocate for that.

Im asking what if any consequence that should yield.

I am facing the consequence daily that I may get covid and die as a result of my choice.

So let's flip the script... should the vaccine have serious side effects, say 5yrs down the road. That causes hospitalization and possibly death. Should those people be denied health care because of a "choice they made"?

Just like you said "I know someone that got autism as a result of a vaccine"!

As I know of a few also, but are they denied healthcare because of it? As it was a choice!
 

Uncle Dave

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Actually you did....several times in this thread...

None

You truncated my quotes.

I do think choice should come with consequences, and Im trying to see where peoples lines are.

I said this is a philosophical discussion.
 
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Looking Glass

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A friend of mine's Son works for Amazon and they get $1,000.00 if they Accept the Vaccine and if not = Fired. I told him, they can't and he just Laughed. ?
 

pronstar

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And lest you think I’m taking sides...if Trump would’ve kept his fucking trap shut, and stopped with the Twitter trolling, perhaps treatments wouldn’t have been politicized in the first place.

I don’t look to the president for medical advice. Let the doctors treat illness. The medical community knows what works and what doesn’t, and they were literally handcuffed by bureaucrats.


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Uncle Dave

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I am facing the consequence daily that I may get covid and die as a result of my choice.

So let's flip the script... should the vaccine have serious side effects, say 5yrs down the road. That causes hospitalization and possibly death. Should those people be denied health care because of a "choice they made"?

Just like you said "I know someone that got autism as a result of a vaccine"!

As I know of a few also, but are they denied healthcare because of it? As it was a choice!

Yes you are taking that risk.

No. I dont believe so because the people that decided to do so were taking the advice of healthcare professionals vs chosing not to take their advice. If my doctor said not to do it I wouldn't.

I tell the vaccine story because I have a far different view than this lone thread would lead people to believe. In attempting to engage in debate what you get here is "your a fuckin idiot , dumbass" classic insults vs actual discussion.
Recounting a life story that is anti vax was an attempt to demonstrate a wider field of view on the topic.
 

DWC

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If you do it for the vaccine then do you go down the entire list of stuff that’s bad for you?
Do you drink alcohol, no treatments for internal organs.
Do you eat sweets? No diabetes.
Eat fried foods? You assumed the liability for heart issues?
Looks like a suntan.. Do you not put on spf 100 and layer up? No skin cancer care for you.
I pay my taxes, pay for healthcare. My decision whether or not i get the vaccine. Getting forced to do it isn’t something that should happen in America. Directly or indirectly
 

Backlash

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Reading back through the thread, it seems as though you aren't happy with the responses people are giving. You then change the topic a little bit, similar to this catchy little phrase "Moving the goalposts."

The topic you initially presented us is pretty straightforward. Stop changing things up to suit your narrative. Should people be denied admission into a medical facility for treatment simply because they didn't make the choice to receive an unproven vaccine? No, they shouldn't.

You can "What if" this all day long and change the details even the slightest bit to try and illicit a different response from the members. I'm sticking to my guns and saying "No thank you" to the vaccine. If/when I am denied medical services for the choices I've made, I will take that issue up with my healthcare provider.
 

Uncle Dave

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If you do it for the vaccine then do you go down the entire list of stuff that’s bad for you?
Do you drink alcohol, no treatments for internal organs.
Do you eat sweets? No diabetes.
Eat fried foods? You assumed the liability for heart issues?
Looks like a suntan.. Do you not put on spf 100 and layer up? No skin cancer care for you.
I pay my taxes, pay for healthcare. My decision whether or not i get the vaccine. Getting forced to do it isn’t something that should happen in America. Directly or indirectly

Should there ever be a line?

If you smoke should you be considered from a lung transplant?
If you are an alcoholic should be eligible for a liver transplant?
 

Uncle Dave

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Reading back through the thread, it seems as though you aren't happy with the responses people are giving. You then change the topic a little bit, similar to this catchy little phrase "Moving the goalposts."

The topic you initially presented us is pretty straightforward. Stop changing things up to suit your narrative. Should people be denied admission into a medical facility for treatment simply because they didn't make the choice to receive an unproven vaccine? No, they shouldn't.

You can "What if" this all day long and change the details even the slightest bit to try and illicit a different response from the members. I'm sticking to my guns and saying "No thank you" to the vaccine. If/when I am denied medical services for the choices I've made, I will take that issue up with my healthcare provider.


Did anyone give me a strightforward yes or no answer and if they did how many posts did it take?
 

DWC

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Should you be allowed hospitalization in the case of severe symptoms requiring urgent care? Yes

Should people be allowed to have it both ways? Yes

My loyalty to my constitution says you should absolutely be allowed to refuse, but I do think choices should come with consequences.
 

LowRiver2

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Post #39
It’s a mute point

Everyone gets “treated”
Triage is based on severity of an illness/injury and the resources at hand to address it.
Fact based at the time, prior vaccines have nothing to do with real triage.

Research organ transplants:
Different argument but there are generally conditons as to who gets one , not always in a straight order.
Different rules of engagement from triage.
 
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JUSTWANNARACE

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Yes you are taking that risk.

No. I dont believe so because the people that decided to do so were taking the advice of healthcare professionals vs chosing not to take their advice. If my doctor said not to do it I wouldn't.

I tell the vaccine story because I have a far different view than this lone thread would lead people to believe. In attempting to engage in debate what you get here is "your a fuckin idiot , dumbass" classic insults vs actual discussion.
Recounting a life story that is anti vax was an attempt to demonstrate a wider field of view on the topic.

I find this interesting because I was told by a few doctors, because I have a long run of not being sick, flu or cold, and have never taken a flu shot, that If I felt comfortable with not having the covid vaccine, that I shouldn't take it right now as we dont know how my body would react and also dont know the actual results. Most of them said the only reason they have had it(and some have yet to get it) is because they are exposed to it daily.
 

Uncle Dave

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A much as I distrust the gov and the health organizing bodies I chose to do so because I have constant exposure to it at my work.

There are basically 6 employers of magnitude in town.
The hospital and my company are 2 of them, and many of our employees have spouses that work at the hospital and we have had multiple cross contaminations occur.

I assured our 200 people we will not attempt to force anyone to get a vaccine. My company is dived roughly in the middle on this.
 

Racey

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No one died from an overheated engine..well maybe but very few.

If you had to triage one bed with all thing being equal would you give it to a guy dying of a disease he didnt vaccinate for or another guy in a different situation?

Would you give to a fat guy with heart disease or a young person that came in from a motorcycle accident?

What about if the guy did have the vaccine but wasn't carrying his card or any ID?

What if you Aunt had a dick? 😂

These are just strawman scenarios.

When resources are limited these decisions are made with or without the kung-flu or the vaccine..... Thankfully in America its very rare to run out of Triage/ER beds.
 

JUSTWANNARACE

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Scenario-

5yrs from now the hospital beds are being overran from side effects of a vaccine you chose to take.

I didnt take the vaccine and am in good health.

I get hit by a drunk driver and in need of an ICU bed.

There is one bed left.

Another comes in with side effects of a vaccine he chose to take.

Who gets the bed, him or I?
 

Uncle Dave

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Would you give to a fat guy with heart disease or a young person that came in from a motorcycle accident?

What about if the guy did have the vaccine but wasn't carrying his card or any ID?

What if you Aunt had a dick? 😂

These are just strawman scenarios.

When resources are limited these decisions are made with or without the kung-flu or the vaccine..... Thankfully in America its very rare to run out of Triage/ER beds.


Yes its rare but it either just, or almost happened.

The whole thing is straw man.
 

Uncle Dave

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Scenario-

5yrs from now the hospital beds are being overran from side effects of a vaccine you chose to take.

I didnt take the vaccine and am in good health.

I get hit by a drunk driver and in need of an ICU bed.

There is one bed left.

Another comes in with side effects of a vaccine he chose to take.

Who gets the bed, him or I?

depends on who has a better chance of survival from treatment.
 

JUSTWANNARACE

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depends on who has a better chance of survival from treatment.

Exactly my point!

If beds are full then yes its who ever might have the better chance!

If beds are not full, then get the person in so the doctor can do their job no matter if they chose for or against taking a vaccine..

Mic drop... enough said!
 
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Racey

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Well clearly the best thing to do would be leave both patients waiting while their situations were processed by a bureaucracy to ensure absolute fairness, and then eventually a decision would come back as to who will get help.... 😂 😂 😂
 

LowRiver2

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Exactly my point!

If beds are full then yes its who ever might have the better chance!

If beds are not full, then get the person in so the doctor can do their job no matter if they chose for or against taking a vaccine..

Mic drop... enough said!
There was a lot of goal post moving in this thread lol.
 

Backlash

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If a criminal is injured during the commission of a crime, and it's necessary for that criminal to be medically treated, should they be treated or not? Why should that criminal be provided with any type of medical treatment when they made a conscious decision that ultimately led to their injury? Shouldn't the ER staff refuse to treat them and leave them outside?

🤷‍♂️


Scenario-

5yrs from now the hospital beds are being overran from side effects of a vaccine you chose to take.

I didnt take the vaccine and am in good health.

I get hit by a drunk driver and in need of an ICU bed.

There is one bed left.

Another comes in with side effects of a vaccine he chose to take.

Who gets the bed, him or I?

You. 😁👍
 

JUSTWANNARACE

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If a criminal is injured during the commission of a crime, and it's necessary for that criminal to be medically treated, should they be treated or not? Why should that criminal be provided with any type of medical treatment when they made a conscious decision that ultimately led to their injury? Shouldn't the ER staff refuse to treat them and leave them outside?

🤷‍♂️




You. 😁👍


RACIST!!🤣🤣
 

Dalton

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If you overdose on drugs do you get treated at a hospital?

If you’re illegally racing and get injured are you treated at a hospital?

If you try and off yourself and it doesn’t work are you treated at a hospital?

Btw...as far as I know there’s no vaccine for TB that’s been widely used in the US.

If you chose not to vaccinate against tuberculosis and get it - is that "blackmail" or simply a consequence of your choice?

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JUSTWANNARACE

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And just for the record...

If you have had "the shot or 2" you still haven't been truly "vaccinated" for COVID-19..


Just sayin!!
 

Dalton

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And just for the record...

If you have had "the shot or 2" you still haven't been truly "vaccinated" for COVID-19..


Just sayin!!

What if you lose that little paper and don’t have proof but need treatment? Off to the morgue you go!


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DWC

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The top reasons of death are cancer/heart disease. The top causes are smoking, alcohol, diet (fried food, too much meat), obesity, too much sun exposure and not enough exercise. (Pretty much describes RDP’s content) If some governing body is going to look at my vaccine record to determine treatment do they also have the right to look at grocery bills and social media to determine treatment? It’s not a slippery slope. It’s a damn cliff.

If someone makes the choice to not get a vaccine and gets a virus, that’s a risk they were willing to take based on their situation. A solid decision IMO if they’re young and/or in good shape. Why someone would get a vaccine that doesn’t prevent A virus but rather lessens the impact makes no sense. My 20yr old did it. 2nd shot was two days of brutal flu symptoms. 2 people on my team and another 8 close friends got the Vid. Most are over 250# and all breezed trough the Vid. My son is young and healthy and has had is worse than all of them from a vaccine. My daughter is 23, is probably getting married in the next few years.. Is it a good idea for her to get it not knowing the long term impact on reproductive organs?
I’m happy for anyone that got the vaccine and it gives them the warm and fuzzies. I think it’s funny that it’s become the new CrossFit..
 

94Nautique

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Should you be allowed hospitalization in the case of severe symptoms requiring urgent care?

Should people be allowed to have it both ways?

My loyalty to my constitution says you should absolutely be allowed to refuse, but I do think choices should come with consequences.
Sorry, that is absolutely stupid. Smokers shouldt get health care? Drug addicted people shouldn’t get health care, people that engage in reckless sex shouldn’t get healthcare?

vaccinated people CAN get Covid, per the Fauci, so what is your point, other than ignorance on display?

you are a leftist. You have no loyalty other than to yourself.
 

Uncle Dave

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Sorry, that is absolutely stupid. Smokers shouldt get health care? Drug addicted people shouldn’t get health care, people that engage in reckless sex shouldn’t get healthcare?

vaccinated people CAN get Covid, per the Fauci, so what is your point, other than ignorance on display?

you are a leftist. You have no loyalty other than to yourself.

What people like to do is judge the question but after discussion about this with a bunch of doctors whats stupid is to think the people that may be in a position to make this choice dont have specific thoughts on this matter.

Cant engage in debate without personal attack?

Im 100% sure you have no idea what I am.

Ive been called lots of things but a leftist isnt one of them.
 

JUSTWANNARACE

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There was equal amount of question dodging lol.

I never dodged a question.

The problem I see is you are trying to make yourself better than others because you got the vaccine. Basically saying you should have first right to treatment over someone that made the choice not to get one! And there "should be consequences" for those that chose not to. Which is an absolute asinine comment.

What makes your expert that told you to get it any better than my expert that told me to hold off for now?!?!

And if shit goes south, who is responsible for future side effects of the vaccine? Pfizer? J&J, AstraZeneca? Nope they sure are not, they are untouchable for the failure of a vaccine to where they are reliable for pharmaceuticals 🤷🏻‍♂️ why is that?

Just sayin!
 

Uncle Dave

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How so?
They treat regardless
Triage is triage
Vaccines and prior life choices have nothing to do with triage or if you get treatment
Show us where that isn’t true in CONUS?

How so what?
I didnt say they didnt treat regardless. I actually said they do.
Triage is triage
I didnt say they did.

Im asking hypothetical questions.
 
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