Is allowing people to sue Police Officers a good idea?

[Letsride22]

Not sure how i feel about it.

 

[Danger Dave]

What if we make everywhere a gun free zone, then we won't need Police at all.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The cities that employ the police have the money. I don't see what this solves.

 

[4Waters]

U.S. lawmaker prepares bill aiming to end court protection for police

(This June 1 story corrects to say Amash is a former Republican turned Libertarian instead of a conservative independent, paragraph 2)

www.reuters.com

2 words "fuck no"


You will have a hard time getting a cop to write a ticket let alone anything else if that goes through.

 

[Danger Dave]

The cities that employ the police have the money. I don't see what this solves.

Well obviously you've never virtue signaled, you barbarian.

 

[WhatExit?]

Lawyers...nuff said

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Well obviously you've never virtue signaled, you barbarian.

Well played

 

[River Runnin]

I'd say FUCK IT! -- All LEO's should walk off the job for a couple weeks! then watch the squeal'n start! -- after 24 hours!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I'm not saying that it is or isn't a good idea at this point, but what they are proposing does not sound entirely unreasonable. Many professions, businesses etc are required to have liability insurance etc to operate. If officers were held personally liable for their own behavior and had to carry their own liability insurance it might weed out the bad apples because after a few occurrences they would no longer be insurable.

I agree is is not an outlandish idea, but I think it is a bad precedent as a whole.

If my house burns down can I sue the responding fire fighters because they did not put it out quickly enough?

 

[hallett3]

It would never work. No one would do the job. Police officers work for the following: state, city or counties. Who ever they are employed by they pay the law suits .

 

[evantwheeler]

I'm not saying that it is or isn't a good idea at this point, but what they are proposing does not sound entirely unreasonable. Many professions, businesses etc are required to have liability insurance etc to operate. If officers were held personally liable for their own behavior and had to carry their own liability insurance it might weed out the bad apples because after a few occurrences they would no longer be insurable.

Why on earth would anyone be a cop then? You assume risk as a business because the potential on earnings is limited only to your abilities/ambitions. Cops assume risk currently (risk of loss of limb/life) for a reasonably secure middle-class living wage, good benefits, and probably a great retirement annuity. There is no unlimited earning potential there. If you add the risk of litigation from the public, which is full of idiot citizens and scummy lawyers looking for a windfall, I can't see why anyone would want to be a cop with what is being proposed.

 

[Wheeler]

Middle class living wage?
Let us start with Roseville Ca. then you can choose your city.
@GRADS

2018 salaries for Roseville | Transparent California

Search California public, government employee, workers salaries, pensions and compensation

transparentcalifornia.com

Fire Battalion Chief Roseville, 2018

total pay and benefits

$369,727.36

 

[Flying_Lavey]

I'm not saying that it is or isn't a good idea at this point, but what they are proposing does not sound entirely unreasonable. Many professions, businesses etc are required to have liability insurance etc to operate. If officers were held personally liable for their own behavior and had to carry their own liability insurance it might weed out the bad apples because after a few occurrences they would no longer be insurable.

I thought I remember a couple LEO on here saying they had exact insurance like this. I may be misremembering though.

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[pronstar]

Terrible idea [emoji107]


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[evantwheeler]

Middle class living wage?
Let us start with Roseville Ca. then you can choose your city.
@GRADS

2018 salaries for Roseville | Transparent California

Search California public, government employee, workers salaries, pensions and compensation

transparentcalifornia.com

Fire Battalion Chief Roseville, 2018

total pay and benefits

$369,727.36

You can cherry pick the data to fit your narrative. Cops don't get rich, nor do I think they should. They make a solid middle class living wage with great benefits. Not the place to argue opinions about overcompensation of public union employees, there are probably a dozen pre-existing threads you can go do that in.

 

[SBMech]

I'm not saying that it is or isn't a good idea at this point, but what they are proposing does not sound entirely unreasonable. Many professions, businesses etc are required to have liability insurance etc to operate. If officers were held personally liable for their own behavior and had to carry their own liability insurance it might weed out the bad apples because after a few occurrences they would no longer be insurable.

I mean on the surface it is a bad idea. If you think about it logically however, almost ALL business owners have to carry liability insurance in case of failures/accidents beyond our control or if we fuck up.

To make it work you would literally have to remove thousands of existing "shit laws" and actually allow people who are violent/abusive/divisive to be controlled by a rigid set of "laws" so that everything was "crystal fucking clear" about reactive forces involved.

No one would go for it, because you would have to be an actual human who would give them respect and courtesy, and receive it in return.

People who fuck up, criminals who get caught, are usually pretty abusive and combative. That's why they get hurt. It's also why some people in LE become the "bad cop" because their "ID" is overwhelmed. They see shit like Ca's "revolving door" treatment and fuck...I get depressed and feel pissed off about it...and I'm not doing the hard work!

If criminals were judged properly, and LEO felt like they actually made significant contributions to the safety and welfare of the citizens they protect, not only from criminals but from normal citizens who make a bad decision/choice, I imagine you would see a much more positive relationship between LEO and citizens.

As it is now, personally unless someone takes the gloves off, they are just as frustrated as we are.

The real problem is that people keep thinking "oh the state/county/city will pay the restitution" they don't pay for SHIT YOU IDIOTS>>>IT'S OUR FUCKING TAXES THAT PAY IT.

As well as the officers too! Politics are taking too much away from everyone these days. If no one can do their jobs, we all fail.

If you are just asking for an example however, the Floyd incident should be fucking laid out crystal clear for everyone to see justice done, not 3 combative autopsies, multiple city officials making statements etc. It should be completely transparent when an officer makes a questionable call, and they should have to stand judgement for it.

 

[GRADS]

Middle class living wage?
Let us start with Roseville Ca. then you can choose your city.
@GRADS

2018 salaries for Roseville | Transparent California

Search California public, government employee, workers salaries, pensions and compensation

transparentcalifornia.com

Fire Battalion Chief Roseville, 2018

total pay and benefits

$369,727.36

You should see what a Trophy Husband salary in Roseville CA is!

 

[DC-88]

I'd say FUCK IT! -- All LEO's should walk off the job for a couple weeks! then watch the squeal'n start! -- after 24 hours!

This would be a sketchy but awesome and much needed social experiment.... Sort of on topic- my wife after teaching 26 years in the Ca. union just quit the Union this year citing dis- satisfaction which candidates (democrap) the union supports politically. I now pay for a liability policy for her which is about $25 bucks a month less than the union dues were.

 

[Ricks raft]

They already can be. Under civil rights violations. The police dept, city, county, can be sued I believe up to $250k per occurrence and if the individuals did not follow protocol even the individual. And yes Floyds rights were violated.

 

[rcmike]

I agree is is not an outlandish idea, but I think it is a bad precedent as a whole.

If my house burns down can I sue the responding fire fighters because they did not put it out quickly enough?

If the fire department showed up, got out smores, and then started shooting Roman candles into your neighbors windows, I would think why not..

If the fire department showed up, stood around yelling at you while telling you it is not their responsibility to know how to fight fires, maybe you would have a case.

If the fire department showed up, tried, and could not stop the fire, I think it would be a hard suit.

I personally think it would be a good idea, especially if you can prove the officer acted outside policy, because currently there is ZERO accountability from the actual officer to the person they fuck over. According to my local department, they legally cannot tell us if there was even any discipline, on the officers that cost the city millions and shut down 1/2 the parks in the city for a year. Apparently it is some kind of law the unions got passed. And if you actually want to affect behavior, real consequences matter.

 

[rrrr]

Fuck no. Every person that had their head banged on the door sill of a police vehicle when they were being put in the back seat for criminal behavior would file a lawsuit.

It would bankrupt individual officers, embolden shitbag lowlifes and trial lawyers, and the cost of personal liability insurance for the cops would mean the pool of those willing to be subjected to such idiocy would be so small there wouldn't be enough police personnel to protect anyone.

Then the dipshits that support anti-police tactics like this idea would be able to commit crime at their leisure, and the inner city poor would become the victims of even more death and destruction in their neighborhoods.

 

[highvoltagehands]

No civil servants should have to worry about being sued for doing their job legally, BUT If a cop gets convicted and fired for some criminal shit, then maybe he should be Liable for civil suits. Maybe then we’ll see change in attitude from the shit cops that need it. The good ones will continue on business as usual.

 

[highvoltagehands]

Middle class living wage?
Let us start with Roseville Ca. then you can choose your city.
@GRADS

2018 salaries for Roseville | Transparent California

Search California public, government employee, workers salaries, pensions and compensation

transparentcalifornia.com

Fire Battalion Chief Roseville, 2018

total pay and benefits

$369,727.36

Wow. That’s right next to me. Roseville FD had 72 out of top 150 Highest paid city employees. Not bad, Must be nice getting paid OT to sleep.

 

[EBT531]

Since they want "equality", how about an enforced law that everyone must render aid unless you are mentally/physically handicapped? So the 3 officers who didn't help, they get charged BUT every civilian who videotapes crimes etc. not helping someone who is being harmed, they get charged too.

 

[4Waters]

I thought I remember a couple LEO on here saying they had exact insurance like this. I may be misremembering though.

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Never heard of LEO having insurance waiting for an answer on your post, however EMS does have malpractice insurance that EMT's through Doctors can purchase. It's fairly cheap from I was told, couple hundred buck a year for 150k coverage. I just stuck to my Scope of Practice and didn't deviate from it so I felt I didn't need it.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Never heard of LEO having insurance waiting for an answer on your post, however EMS does have malpractice insurance that EMT's through Doctors can purchase. It's fairly cheap from I was told, couple hundred buck a year for 150k coverage. I just stuck to my Scope of Practice and didn't deviate from it so I felt I didn't need it.

I have been too. I coulda swore I remember @t&y saying something about having insurance for such. Don't know if it's just a personal liability umbrella type thing or what though, or if I'm even remembering correctly.

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[weasle]

As long as the public does not expect much policing. The cops are already taking more of a hands off approach. If this is what they want they may as well hire Securitas to police the city and I am sure they have an insurance policy.

 

[EBT531]

Never heard of LEO having insurance waiting for an answer on your post, however EMS does have malpractice insurance that EMT's through Doctors can purchase. It's fairly cheap from I was told, couple hundred buck a year for 150k coverage. I just stuck to my Scope of Practice and didn't deviate from it so I felt I didn't need it.

Only policy any cop I know has is an umbrella policy. But I also come from IL where they can't take your home or last $100k in cash which most of us don't have anyway.

 

[was thatguy]

Wow. That’s right next to me. Roseville FD had 72 out of top 150 Highest paid city employees. Not bad, Must be nice getting paid OT to sleep.
View attachment 883808 View attachment 883809

Admit it...you catch a nap while hanging off that helicopter tether between towers!

 

[pkbullet]

I would like to be able to sue local and state politicians personally. Currently they can not be held financial liable for their actions. I would love to bankrupt a couple that have damaged my business with this current over reaction. I may not win, but would enjoy burying them in legal bills.

 

[LowRiver2]

LAPD has additional insurance through the Union.
It’s for Legal Counsel for internal discipline.
It has a purpose, but there is part of it that has back fires in my opinion.
We get coverage for days off without pay penalties that extend up to 30 days. The fallout is the command simply raised the level of judgment from days off to termination. This has resulted in many more Board of Rights, thus costing the City and Department much more money. The lawyers are the only ones who win.
There are a lot of things Cops do wrong where 5-10 days off without pay would’ve done the job.
We’re talking low grade admin stuff, not criminal activity.

Private insurance will never happen in Ca. , the citiy’s won’t find applicants and what you see now will become the norm in big cities with lawlessness.
Don’t blame me, just stating based on what I know about the subject.

 

[BoatCop]

Let me chime in, as a career LEO and Police Administrator. If an Officer performs their duties in accordance with their training, and the policies put out before them, they should have ZERO liability for their actions, in performance of their duties. If there are problems with the policy or training, then that's on the Department or the Certifying board. But you can't fault the Officer for following their official directives. Throw in whatever case law, from earlier actions that may be out there, and as long as the cop on the beat knows and follows those policies and procedures, they are, and should be, immune. And even if they DON'T know those policies, then that falls on their supervisors, whose sole purpose is to ensure that their charges ARE following proper procedures.

Whenever you see an Agency sued for some egregious actions of their Officers, they include language, such as "Failure to supervise", "knew or should have known", "deliberate indifference", etc. Not only does the Agency get sued, but also the Officer, their Supervisors, the Trainers, Agency Head, Certifying board, Employing entity (City, County State), and whoever else they can think to throw in. It's called "Vicarious Liability".

There is a new industry out there, run by lawyers and former Police Administrators, that develop a policy, based on State and Federal Laws, Case Law (court decisions), and best practices. While it is essentially a "canned" - one size fits all, policy, it is presented to the Agency, with their ability to alter it in any way that they see fit. The head of the Agency (Chief, Sheriff, Director, whatever) is ultimately responsible for the contents of the policy. Once it's presented to the Agency, they have to customize it (alter, add or delete sections) to their particular circumstances. For example, a policy on "Marine Law Enforcement" would be useless for Kingman PD. It took over a year for my Agency to make the necessary changes to make it applicable to our circumstances. The nice thing about it is, when laws change and new ones added or old ones repealed, updates are sent out automatically, so it is always current. There is also a mechanism to ensure that EVERY Officer is intimately familiar with the contents, in real-life scenario based testing. It costs the Agency a couple thousand dollars a year to have this service, but in terms of liability, it's worth every penny. Plus, if the Agency gets sued, based on the Policy contents, their lawyers will defend it, at no cost to the Agency. All of this is held electronically, so they can be accessed from anywhere, there's no bulky 3,500 page manuals stuffed in a book case and forgot about, and if some lawyer requests a copy, it can be sent immediately, with no copying or mailing required.

While the above is primarily for the protection of the Agency, if the individual officer relies on that in their own day to day official activities, it will protect them, too. But it can still fall apart. If the Agency doesn't keep up with the updates, doesn't ensure the Officers complete their requirements, or has a lackadaisical attitude toward the Policy in general, it WILL come back to bite them.

And in the end, a lot of Agencies/Counties/Cities have their own insurance to prevent financial disaster, so the majority of "deep pocket" lawsuits aren't shouldered completely by the taxpayers. A million dollar judgement might just cost the Agency (taxpayers) their deductible of $5,000-$25,000. (or small % of the total). Unfortunately, this also incentivizes the Agency/Insurance to settle for a relatively small amount, as a full blown trial is more costly than settling. And THAT is a slap in the face to the officer, that may have done everything by the book, and now looks guilty, and has the stigma of a successful lawsuit hanging over their career.

 

[highvoltagehands]

Admit it...you catch a nap while hanging off that helicopter tether between towers!

No one sleeps nor takes breaks when the birds flyin. We actually end up working much harder when using Helicopters because of the fast pace. Helicopters move men, materials and tooling to/from the structures so fast, you only get a few fly minutes between work tasks. The helicopter may save us climbing effort, but that’s offset by the shorter time between tasks. Bosses don’t like paying thousands $$ per hr for a idle helicopter while we take take breaks.
“ Lunch breaks are for Pussy’s” GG