I'VE BEEN FRAMED - The Pool Cabana Build

[ahavasu]

JK, But I need a framer for a pool cabana project I am starting in Riverside, CA (similar to the one pictured minus the fireplace). I have sent plans to three framers and can't seem to get anyone to respond with a bid. The project is pretty simple: four columns and a roof 20'x20'. I also need a finish concrete guy and an electrician. Plans are already approved, and the permit is in hand. Any help would be appreciated.

If you are a framer and interested in the job, PM me with your email, and I will send you the plans. The bid should include complete takeoff (lumber and hardware) and labor.

Thanks

 

[Luvnlife]

Why did I read that in Cheech Marin’s voice

 

[whiteworks]

JK, But I need a framer for a pool cabana project I am starting in Riverside, CA (similar to the one pictured minus the fireplace). I have sent plans to three framers and can't seem to get anyone to respond with a bid. The project is pretty simple: four columns and a roof 20'x20'. I also need a finish concrete guy and an electrician. Plans are already approved, and the permit is in hand. Any help would be appreciated.

If you are a framer and interested in the job, PM me with your email, and I will send you the plans. The bid should include complete takeoff (lumber and hardware) and labor.

Thanks



View attachment 1368471

That looks like a fun project, here’s my bid. I don’t how long it will take or how much it will cost, but I guarantee you it will be insanely badass when I’m done

 

[Bajap1]

JK, But I need a framer for a pool cabana project I am starting in Riverside, CA (similar to the one pictured minus the fireplace). I have sent plans to three framers and can't seem to get anyone to respond with a bid. The project is pretty simple: four columns and a roof 20'x20'. I also need a finish concrete guy and an electrician. Plans are already approved, and the permit is in hand. Any help would be appreciated.

If you are a framer and interested in the job, PM me with your email, and I will send you the plans. The bid should include complete takeoff (lumber and hardware) and labor.

Thanks



View attachment 1368471

Getting ready to build one in Alpine, I'd love to help out but I'm slammed till end of August. If you can't find anyone let me know...good luck

 

[DLow]

The bid should include complete takeoff (lumber and hardware) and labor.

Thanks

This may very well be why you aren’t receiving bids back. Good luck though. Will be cool when done.

 

[Familyties]

Daniel Nikolic Construction
951 239-4205
He did some work for me he is Havasu and SoCal

 

[boatpi]

W that’s a nice project, but that is not cheap

 

[Melloyellovector]

not very likely a framer/company is going to do a complete take off lumber and hardware and supply that list to you. Not worth it
take your plans to Home Depot pro desk, they will do quote for lumber and hardware, then get framer for labor only, better chance to find someone to do.
most framers are not doing footings, steel, etc.. are the posts wood or steel, likely steel and custom made.

I can tell you normally that would cost you around 50k, plus, depending on demo utilities, lights, exposed beam underside or lid
plus bbq around 15k plus equipment supplied by you

 

[WYRD]

I don't read it that he is requesting a copy of the takeoff but rather he wants a complete bid to include all lumber and hardware...might be misinterpreting him though

 

[Bajap1]

not very likely a framer/company is going to do a complete take off lumber and hardware and supply that list to you. Not worth it
take your plans to Home Depot pro desk, they will do quote for lumber and hardware, then get framer for labor only, better chance to find someone to do.
most framers are not doing footings, steel, etc.. are the posts wood or steel, likely steel and custom made.

I can tell you normally that would cost you around 50k, plus, depending on demo utilities, lights, exposed beam underside or lid
plus bbq around 15k plus equipment supplied by you

Spot on with the price

 

[Eliminator21vdrive]

 

[RichL]

This may very well be why you aren’t receiving bids back. Good luck though. Will be cool when done.

To be honest I was thinking the same thing. I learned a long time ago it takes a long time to put together a fair and essentially complete proposal. I also learned that when I provided material takeoffs and broke out specifics, the prospect typically took all my hard work and either used it themselves or passed it along to someone else to use. Guess who was out all that labor time and related supplies to create, not to mention the time required to travel to look and do all the measuring and site investigation.

 

[ahavasu]

not very likely a framer/company is going to do a complete take off lumber and hardware and supply that list to you. Not worth it
take your plans to Home Depot pro desk, they will do quote for lumber and hardware, then get framer for labor only, better chance to find someone to do.
most framers are not doing footings, steel, etc.. are the posts wood or steel, likely steel and custom made.

I can tell you normally that would cost you around 50k, plus, depending on demo utilities, lights, exposed beam underside or lid
plus bbq around 15k plus equipment supplied by you

Yeah just looking for a complete framing job excluding footings etc.

 

[ahavasu]

So this is how this came to be. We need shade in the backyard, or so I've been told by the boss for many years now. So, I got the plans drawn up and got some bids to build a 20x20 stucco structure. 95-110 K minus the good stuff inside (TV, cabinets, appliances, speakers, countertop). Yikes! So, being the guy I am, I decided if I can owner-build my pool, I can do the cabana. So, I reached out to some construction friends and asked for help with identifying subs and what the order of operation was for the build/sign-offs.

The cabana will go in the corner in front of the 3 palms (15-foot setback from the neighbor). Surrounding the structure will be 10 feet of patio in squares with grass in between. The house will have a folding door system, and steps will wrap in front of doors (where roses are) to lead into the yard and to the cabana. My only missing sub is the framer, but as stated above (great idea), I may just send plans to the lumber company and get take-off and then just get a framer labor only. Regardless, all in hoping for 100K to include Cabana nicely outfitted, folding doors and finish concrete. Will be extra for fake grass to finish it off. So far, I have excavation, footings, electrical, roofing, and stucco; I just need framing and finish concrete and turf for the win.

I hope to break ground next week, permit in hand, so I will update you on the progress as we move along.

Any help with sub recommendations will be appreciated.

 

[DC-88]

Head into your local "real" lumberyards and ask one of the lead contractor salespeople to refer you to some framers. You are clearly a good client with realistic expectations on pricing, and all good framing contractors I've ever known or used prefer to make their own list and supply the material at a little bit of a markup to make the whole thing more worth their time. No legit framer wants to work off a list some random person made. Tell them you don't need to see the list, just get a few complete prices for lumber, labor, and hardware and make a choice based on comfort and or price-

 

[ahavasu]

Head into your local "real" lumberyards and ask one of the lead contractor salespeople to refer you to some framers. You are clearly a good client with realistic expectations on pricing, and all good framing contractors I've ever known or used prefer to make their own list and supply the material at a little bit of a markup to make the whole thing more worth their time. No legit framer wants to work off a list some random person made. Tell them you don't need to see the list, just get a few complete prices for lumber, labor, and hardware and make a choice based on comfort and or price-

Great advice, thank you.

 

[Bajap1]

To be honest I was thinking the same thing. I learned a long time ago it takes a long time to put together a fair and essentially complete proposal. I also learned that when I provided material takeoffs and broke out specifics, the prospect typically took all my hard work and either used it themselves or passed it along to someone else to use. Guess who was out all that labor time and related supplies to create, not to mention the time required to travel to look and do all the measuring and site investigation.

Yes no thank you....price it out the door. Labor and materials breakdowns are for those that generally can't afford it to begin...when I'm not nickle and dimed I typically end up going above and beyond the scope and don't sweat the small stuff.

Be upfront with the customer, as contractors we generally get discounts on materials so the customer generally doesn't save much or anything and has to go through the trouble of a take off, when they don't really know what their looking at....more times than not they miss half of what's not on the plans that those in the trade already know is a requirement.

 

[ahavasu]

Yes no thank you....price it out the door. Labor and materials breakdowns are for those that generally can't afford it to begin...when I'm not nickle and dimed I typically end up going above and beyond the scope and don't sweat the small stuff.

Be upfront with the customer, as contractors we generally get discounts on materials so the customer generally doesn't save much or anything and has to go through the trouble of a take off, when they don't really know what their looking at....more times than not they miss half of what's not on the plans that those in the trade already know is a requirement.

I guess I should clarify with takeoff. I'm not looking to scrutinize the material and hardware list, I just want Joe Blow to say lumber and hardware costs 6k and labor is 5k, all in 11k. Have it delivered and when can you start.

 

[Melloyellovector]

you can send me copy of plan, [email protected]
I’ll check if any of my guys interested doing on the side

 

[RichL]

Yes no thank you....price it out the door. Labor and materials breakdowns are for those that generally can't afford it to begin...when I'm not nickle and dimed I typically end up going above and beyond the scope and don't sweat the small stuff.

Be upfront with the customer, as contractors we generally get discounts on materials so the customer generally doesn't save much or anything and has to go through the trouble of a take off, when they don't really know what their looking at....more times than not they miss half of what's not on the plans that those in the trade already know is a requirement.

Exactly

 

[Bajap1]

I guess I should clarify with takeoff. I'm not looking to scrutinize the material and hardware list, I just want Joe Blow to say lumber and hardware costs 6k and labor is 5k, all in 11k. Have it delivered and when can you start.

Totally understand I guess for me I look at it another way...when we go buy a new truck as an example we don't ask for Ford/chevy/ram for a breakdown of the labor and materials...as consumers we typically are all looking for the best deal that's just being smart with our money.

Recommendations, and getting 3 qualified bids and seeing who is the best fit for you, is in my opinion your best avenue. Some contractors are not the best fit even though they may be the cheapest and can start ASAP(warning signs), and some homeowners are not the best fit for a contractor.

Lastly hire only licensed contractors, you assume 100% of the risk without it.

I'm not disagreeing with the way your going about it, I'm just giving you the prospective from the other side. Whoever you hire, ask questions, see their work, ask for referrals. The guy at 50k and the guy at 60k may produce a totaly different product, make sure the scope of work is clear and avoid any misinterpretations and gray areas.

 

[ahavasu]

Totally understand I guess for me I look at it another way...when we go buy a new truck as an example we don't ask for Ford/chevy/ram for a breakdown of the labor and materials...as consumers we typically are all looking for the best deal that's just being smart with our money.

Recommendations, and getting 3 qualified bids and seeing who is the best fit for you, is in my opinion your best avenue. Some contractors are not the best fit even though they may be the cheapest and can start ASAP(warning signs), and some homeowners are not the best fit for a contractor.

Lastly hire only licensed contractors, you assume 100% of the risk without it.

I'm not disagreeing with the way your going about it, I'm just giving you the prospective from the other side. Whoever you hire, ask questions, see their work, ask for referrals. The guy at 50k and the guy at 60k may produce a totaly different product, make sure the scope of work is clear and avoid any misinterpretations and gray areas.

Great advice; thank you. Yeah, regarding licensed contractors, I learned my lesson on that with my first house. It was a very expensive lesson at the time, working with an unlicensed contractor. Plus, the city puts the fear of God in you, making you sign your life away for an owner-builder project. Three pages of liability, workers' compensation, etc. Thanks again; I appreciate the input.

 

[ahavasu]

I worked on this yesterday. The demo starts on Wednesday, and trenching and foundation work starts the following week. I also ordered tile for the roof, got a line on the folding doors, got an electrician, got a stucco bid, and have some leads on framing from two RD responses as well as bids already in progress. I will update you with some pics as we progress.

 

[rrrr]

To be honest I was thinking the same thing. I learned a long time ago it takes a long time to put together a fair and essentially complete proposal. I also learned that when I provided material takeoffs and broke out specifics, the prospect typically took all my hard work and either used it themselves or passed it along to someone else to use. Guess who was out all that labor time and related supplies to create, not to mention the time required to travel to look and do all the measuring and site investigation.

That happened to me about 20 years ago.

I started copywriting my preliminary data center designs used in customer proposals and requiring signed NDAs after an incident that still pisses me off. I was asked to examine the Mary Kay Cosmetics data center and solve a complex problem that was restricting their ability to expand the operation within the confines and limitations of their 15 story headquarters building on the North Dallas Tollway.

There are two basic impediments to data center expansion. One is how to increase the capacity of the existing electrical service. The other is how to handle the heat rejection that must occur when the physical space and data processing equipment is expanded.

Being brief, I basically came up with ideas that solved these issues through investigation of the existing building structure that found a place to install a new 2 Mw utility service transformer, along with pathways for electrical conduit and large chilled water piping. I also designed a roof platform for the required large heat exchangers, built from prefabricated and hot dip galvanized steel to ameliorate the possibility of corrosion caused by the constant evaporation of cooling tower water. It was a complex project.

The proposal was created with about 80 hours of my time for site inspection, design engineering, CAD drawings, and negotiations with the utility provider, equipment vendors, subcontractors, and the city. Other employees contributed another 50 hours or so. The design work product was sufficiently complete to need nothing more than review and a stamp from the engineering firm I used for that purpose to make them suitable for construction drawings.

Mary Kay had already engaged a couple of non-specialized GCs to procure estimates. They were around $11 million. The firm cost I gave them to perform the work was $9.5 million, and there was about $1.6 million in profit in that figure.

They said thank you, then took my work and turned it into a bid package. Another GC I was familiar with that had almost no experience in construction and expansion of critical facilities was awarded the job. I don't know how the project turned out, but because of its inherent difficulty and specific requirements, I'm confident it was a shit show.

That same project would cost more than $30 million today.

 

[ahavasu]

I got a bid today for framing. Took him 2 weeks to send it to me. 33k lmao cmon man just say your too busy sheesh. The last take off was 6600 on older set of more complicated plans. Hardy frame x3 3k more. So 10k for lumber and 23k for 2 days labor, is it something I said lol. Man that was a gut punch for the first email I read this wonderful Monday morning. Have some other leads, we will see.

 

[NicPaus]

What's your framing budget? I can ask my framer tomorrow if it's worth traveling to the 909 for × $.

 

[ahavasu]

What's your framing budget? I can ask my framer tomorrow if it's worth traveling to the 909 for × $

Wood should be 10 as stated. From everyone I've talked to framing labor should come in 6 to 7 as fair number. 17 all in. Should be a weekend job for 2 or 3 guys to make extra cash.

 

[Melloyellovector]

33k is a F off price, and if you said ok, it’s a never mind your my best friend for a couple days

 

[NicPaus]

Wood should be 10 as stated. From everyone I've talked to framing labor should come in 6 to 7 as fair number. 17 all in. Should be a weekend job for 2 or 3 guys to make extra cash.

I had 18k in my head when I first looked but I prefer to sub out the framing. I will show him and get back to you. He should be done framing this for me tomorrow.

 

[ahavasu]

I had 18k in my head when I first looked but I prefer to sub out the framing. I will show him and get back to you. He should be done framing this for me tomorrow. View attachment 1370520

Yeah not gonna nickel dime over small amount, that's right in the ballpark. Let me know. Thanks for looking.

 

[ahavasu]

And so it begins. These guys are making quick work of excavation and grading. Plans have been sent to three lumber companies for takeoff lumber bids. I still need a framer, but at least people are throwing numbers my way now.

 

[ahavasu]

33k is a F off price, and if you said ok, it’s a never mind your my best friend for a couple days

So true! This is still bugging me. I get it bid every job blah blah blah, but this pissed me off. So much so that I would never consider doing business with him in the future. Just be honest and say, "Hey, I appreciate the opportunity, but I'm slammed and won't be competitive on this bid." Whatever, but a half-page bid after two weeks that says 33K, cmon man.

 

[Melloyellovector]

So true! This is still bugging me. I get it bid every job blah blah blah, but this pissed me off. So much so that I would never consider doing business with him in the future. Just be honest and say, "Hey, I appreciate the opportunity, but I'm slammed and won't be competitive on this bid." Whatever, but a half-page bid after two weeks that says 33K, cmon man.

Waiting on my guy for price, should have soon, he called me yesterday with a question. Plan shows 2 different details, 1 shows fascia, other shows stucco to tile. Told him don’t care, select 1 and base price stating detail quoting. Cant imagine price would be much different anyway, lol

 

[ahavasu]

Waiting on my guy for price, should have soon, he called me yesterday with a question. Plan shows 2 different details, 1 shows fascia, other shows stucco to tile. Told him don’t care, select 1 and base price stating detail quoting. Cant imagine price would be much different anyway, lol

That's weird, its fascia all four sides. Spanish to match the house. Probably just need labor price at this point, have three bids out for lumber and hardware.

 

[NicPaus]

To far of a drive for my framer. My BIL works at Jones lumber so I make majority of my purchases there. Before that been using Crenshaw lumber for 20 years. Ganahl opened up a new Torrance location a few years ago. But damn they raised the prices so high makes Giraffe pussy low. Still have to go there soon to match the wood for a gate to a fence we built years ago.

 

[Mikes56]

Be careful hiring just any Framer, the one my GC hired fucked the GC and me. We had to hire a different Framer to finish the job. That new Framer wouldn't just continue building onto what was already halfway done. He demo’d all the previous work and started over. He said I’ve got to “put my name on this,” so I’ve gotta start over.

I was going completely nuts waiting and watching the delays.

I just don’t want this to happen to you.

 

[ahavasu]

Be careful hiring just any Framer, the one my GC hired fucked the GC and me. We had to hire a different Framer to finish the job. That new Framer wouldn't just continue building onto what was already halfway done. He demo’d all the previous work and started over. He said I’ve got to “put my name on this,” so I’ve gotta start over.

I was going completely nuts waiting and watching the delays.

I just don’t want this to happen to you.

This is my biggest fear. I don't want to get inspected and get called out for a bunch of corrections, and then the framer is nowhere to be found. This is why I will pay a bit more for someone with good recommendations etc. Great advice, thanks for sharing.

 

[ahavasu]

To far of a drive for my framer. My BIL works at Jones lumber so I make majority of my purchases there. Before that been using Crenshaw lumber for 20 years. Ganahl opened up a new Torrance location a few years ago. But damn they raised the prices so high makes Giraffe pussy low. Still have to go there soon to match the wood for a gate to a fence we built years ago.

I understand about the drive; thanks for checking. We will see, getting a quote from Crenshaw and Ganahl.

 

[JL95]

Love that area.

 

[Mikes56]

This is my biggest fear. I don't want to get inspected and get called out for a bunch of corrections, and then the framer is nowhere to be found. This is why I will pay a bit more for someone with good recommendations etc. Great advice, thanks for sharing.

Yea I forgot to mention that I failed the first inspection. The inspector pulled me aside after “final” and said that he wanted to tell me that the framer was an idiot and didn’t know what he was doing, but he wasnt allowed to do that.

Also be prepared to go way over budget. My ex-wife used to say, “ Twice as much and twice as long”. I hate that the bitch was right lol.

My job was simple. I just added a 920 sq ft garage to my existing two car garage and it was still a disaster.

 

[ahavasu]

Yea I forgot to mention that I failed the first inspection. The inspector pulled me aside after “final” and said that he wanted to tell me that the framer was an idiot and didn’t know what he was doing, but he wasnt allowed to do that.

Also be prepared to go way over budget. My ex-wife used to say, “ Twice as much and twice as long”. I hate that the bitch was right lol.

My job was simple. I just added a 920 sq ft garage to my existing two car garage and it was still a disaster.

My fears in a nutshell. and yeah, over budget will happen, hopefully not double though, lol.

 

[ahavasu]

Clean slate!

 

[ahavasu]

Well, if anyone is still following along, the foundation is framed and ready to pour today (will post pictures later). First inspection went well and I expect them all to be pretty smooth as the inspector seems like a really good dude.

Finally found a framer who will start this weekend. The advice regarding ordering the wood and hardware separately was perfect. Wood is being purchased from Ganahl. They were very competitive with other lumber companies and included everything, including delivery, in their bid. I felt like they were the most professional of the three bids I got. All in 12K for wood, hardware, and three Hardy frames, which will be delivered on Friday.

Framing is 6K by a licensed contractor who I really liked when I met him. He is highly recommended. The framers are here this Saturday to start.

We need an electrician. We have two guys looking at plans, so hopefully, one of them will come through. Roofing and gutters are ordered, and they will move quickly once I get the framing and electric signed off (hopefully, in two weeks if all goes well). It's moving now; no looking back, lol.

 

[ahavasu]

Foundation finished! Slab and all flat work will be poured after the structure is complete so as to avoid damage. Framing starts Saturday.

 

[Melloyellovector]

My 1 framer is MIA and the other came back at proud busy white guy pricing. lol

 

[Kachina26]

Framing is 6K by a licensed contractor who I really liked when I met him. He is highly recommended.

But is he ripped?

 

[ahavasu]

But is he ripped?

Lol, that wasn't one of my prerequisites. I'm more worried about whether he will show up and do a good job. If he has time to go to the gym and get "ripped," he isn't working hard enough, lol.

 

[ahavasu]

I really have been framed! One days work. My buddy hooked me up with his framing crew and I only paid wages today. They finish Tuesday, same. Yes, I realize what a blessing the labor savings are. As such, I paid them extra, fed them and got them beers for the end of the day. Coming along, gonna be sweet.

 

[ahavasu]

Roofs on! Arches on Tuesday and some sheathing.

 

[ahavasu]

Ready for roof and framing inspection. Electrical starts Saturday.