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Jet Fuel dumped on kids at school in L.A.

stephenkatsea

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Reports indicated it was a Delta 777 bound for Shanghai. It had recently departed LAX when engine problems forced it to return. Would typically expect the fuel dump necessary to safely land the plane would have occurred over the ocean.
 

2Driver

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Unfortunate but they will live. Shit we got more fuel on us siphoning cars during the 70's gas crisis then those kids will ever get. :D

“ The victims were treated by dozens of firefighters and paramedics at the school”

LOL I’m sure they were.
 

OLDRAAT

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Better than having skydrol falling. Glad there were no serious issues. Still wondering why not a water dump?
 

Yellowboat

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Atc almost never lets them dump over populated areas.

Fuel dumps are done becuase max take off wieght and safe landing wieght are drasticaly different. If they land heavy they will do damage to the gear/ aircraft.

Jet a is kerosene with some additives.
 

DaveC

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Poor inner city yutes.

Only in CA where kids can play in a inner city playground that exposes them to human feces and used junky needles that might have Hep, TB or HIV and thats no big deal.

But someone dumps a little bit of jet A that disperses in the air and everyone loses their shit.

Only in CA.

:p;)
 

was thatguy

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That happened a couple times when I lived in Anchorage. Dumped over neighborhoods. One time an engine fell off and landed in some dudes back yard. Dodged a BIG bullet that time!
 

DaveC

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To clean up all the bum dookie, I agree. :cool::D
 

Yellowboat

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That happened a couple times when I lived in Anchorage. Dumped over neighborhoods. One time an engine fell off and landed in some dudes back yard. Dodged a BIG bullet that time!
I would be pissed, not becuase it happened, but becuase of all the fed state and local agents that would be in my back yard for days.
 

buck35

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Poor inner city yutes.

Only in CA where kids can play in a inner city playground that exposes them to human feces and used junky needles that might have Hep, TB or HIV and thats no big deal.

But someone dumps a little bit of jet A that disperses in the air and everyone loses their shit.

Only in CA.

:p;)
It would be interesting to see the altitude and % of saturation that may have hit the ground.
 

Sleek-Jet

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They used to go out to sea and dump fuel, I'm guessing that doesn't happen anymore.
 

HGP3

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It would be interesting to see the altitude and % of saturation that may have hit the ground.
2,375 ft when it flew over the schools shown in the article.

Screenshot_20200114-184921.png
 

Yellowboat

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Dumping fuel is a big deal. Its an ask for permission and vectors to do it. Either atc cleared them, or they did not. Either way this is going to get expesnive for the airline
 

Singleton

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Plane has engine mechanical at 8k - last thing ATC is worried about is fuel falling to ground.
Sounds and looks like that plane needed to land ASAP and was dumping fuel until the last minute.
Better fuel then plane falling to ground - more people live that way
 

Yellowboat

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Plane has engine mechanical at 8k - last thing ATC is worried about is fuel falling to ground.
Sounds and looks like that plane needed to land ASAP and was dumping fuel until the last minute.
Better fuel then plane falling to ground - more people live that way
Yeah...




Some one will not be flying for awhile. Ask if needed to dump fuel said no. No mention of dumping.

Yes i know aviate, navigate , communicate, but this time its going to hurt.
 

Jed-O

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Sounds like a shit design from the get go if it can't land with a full load of fuel because the landing gear is a piece of shit.
What the hell is the world coming to...
 

Bobby V

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Sounds like a shit design from the get go if it can't land with a full load of fuel because the landing gear is a piece of shit.
What the hell is the world coming to...
From the link in post #1

David Soucie, an aviation safety analyst, told CNN there are maximum takeoff and landing weights for aircraft, so in order for a plane with full fuel tanks to land, it must dump the fuel to avoid potentially crashing upon landing.
 

4Waters

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Yeah...




Some one will not be flying for awhile. Ask if needed to dump fuel said no. No mention of dumping.

Yes i know aviate, navigate , communicate, but this time its going to hurt.
That's what I heard. ATC asked the pilot if he needed to dump fuel, pilot replied no, then decides to dump anyways.
 

OLDRAAT

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Waiting for some additional info, but unless the established flight routes for departure/arrival had heavy traffic, rerouting to a West reloop over water for a large release should have been a consideration IMO.
Even after a fuel purge, I think a heavy would still have fuel for a go around and E-landing?
 

Beautiful Noise

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I was working at the Airport when they rolled out the Emergency Vehicles next to Us BUT didn’t know anything about the Plane till I heard it on the News after I got off Work .......
 

Jed-O

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From the link in post #1

David Soucie, an aviation safety analyst, told CNN there are maximum takeoff and landing weights for aircraft, so in order for a plane with full fuel tanks to land, it must dump the fuel to avoid potentially crashing upon landing.
I read it. And I'm not a aviation expert. But as a human being with two eyes and fuckin brain, it seems pretty retarded to design a obviously necessary component to not be able to handle the entire load of the aircraft in the event of an emergency or any other reason.
Seriously, I don't feel the need to dump 3/4 of my boat fuel before I pull up to Fox's so my fenders don't explode...
Just my thoughts...
 

bilz

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Dude dumped all over our neighborhood according to my neighbors.
 

Bobby V

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I read it. And I'm not a aviation expert. But as a human being with two eyes and fuckin brain, it seems pretty retarded to design a obviously necessary component to not be able to handle the entire load of the aircraft in the event of an emergency or any other reason.
Seriously, I don't feel the need to dump 3/4 of my boat fuel before I pull up to Fox's so my fenders don't explode...
Just my thoughts...
How fast do you ram the docks at Fox's. lol :)
 

4Waters

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I read it. And I'm not a aviation expert. But as a human being with two eyes and fuckin brain, it seems pretty retarded to design a obviously necessary component to not be able to handle the entire load of the aircraft in the event of an emergency or any other reason.
Seriously, I don't feel the need to dump 3/4 of my boat fuel before I pull up to Fox's so my fenders don't explode...
Just my thoughts...
I'm pretty sure the plane can handle a landing fully loaded but not recommended as testing is done with all systems working normal and an actual emergency landing could be hard due to loss of an engine or hydraulics etc....

Just my thoughts.
 

Yellowboat

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Sounds like a shit design from the get go if it can't land with a full load of fuel because the landing gear is a piece of shit.
What the hell is the world coming to...
Wieght on am airplane is huge. Every extra once is one you cant use to make money. So they design a plane to land at a given weight that would be an average of what a realistic landing wieght would be. It may seem stupid, but it saves millions over the life time of the aircraft.

It gets even more crazy with small aircraft. Take the cessna 172, the most common plane. The newest version 172r. Holds 4 people hasa gross max at 2450 holds 56 gallons, but wieght in at 1691 empty. Now 100 ll wieghts in at 6.02/ gallon. Top off the tanks and it brings your wieght up to 2028# that means your 4 passengers can weight 105.5# so what do you do? You drop the fuel load, which drasticly cuts your range. It sucks but a part of flying
 
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JayBreww

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I read it. And I'm not a aviation expert. But as a human being with two eyes and fuckin brain, it seems pretty retarded to design a obviously necessary component to not be able to handle the entire load of the aircraft in the event of an emergency or any other reason.
Seriously, I don't feel the need to dump 3/4 of my boat fuel before I pull up to Fox's so my fenders don't explode...
Just my thoughts...
Our aircraft do it all the time before landing back at Norton. They usually dump it off west of the 330 near McKinley peak.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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monkeyswrench

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In thinking about it, a large plane probably has the equivalent to a swimming pool in each wing. Holding say 25# in each arm, outstretched, you could walk keeping them somewhat steady. Now, same thing, but step down maybe a foot, wearing only one shoe. Between the unsteadiness, and the accelerated drop to a stop, most people's arms will dip, or give.
If a planes decent angle and speed aren't good, I'm sure all kinds of crap can go bad. A lot worse than bottoming out the shocks in a truck, I'm sure.
 

Jed-O

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Like I said, I'm no aviation expert. What you're stating makes perfect sense, and as a small business owner I can understand the fact that saving every buck you can on a job or "flight" is completely legitimate in business.
What I don't understand is why can our military fly tanks overseas, land and not have to worry about the fucking landing gear!?
I'm a building contractor, and I have to deal with engineers all the time. They design shit to withstand three times the stress that they allow us to use it for. So even if we the builders fuck up with a little "field engineering" (yeah, everything works fine on paper) we are all good most of the time.
So my case is:
1. If an aircraft cannot land fully loaded under any circumstances due to shitty landing gear, why should the FAA allow it fly? (in lament terms, if you have an ailment in your legs knees and/or back I'm not going to ask you to help move my refrigerator)
2. If the fuel in the wings is "Way too heavy" and they might snap off! (for the love of God I'm never flying again unless the IRS gets a hold of me) Jesus Christ! Use better materials and fasteners!
3. Also a thought. If wings are too heavy to land, put the gear back on the fucking wings where they belong like a B-25.
4. If you are a brand new engineer, leave the fucking vacuum cleaner switch at the Goddamn handle! Quit moving the motherfucker! You don't have to justify your position. It works just fine in or around the immediate reach of my fingertips and thumb. Halfway between my feet and hands isn't a good deal when I accidentally suck up the pet's tail or the Goddamn phone charger. (yeah, fuck you new engineer dude. Suck my...)
5. It's Tuesday and I'm pretty drunk. Fuck you IRS and New Engineer dude!
6. Wait... It's almost Wednesday...
Or is it almost Thursday?
7. Fuck it. I'm going to the river this weekend.
 

SkyDirtWaterguy

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Plane has engine mechanical at 8k - last thing ATC is worried about is fuel falling to ground.
Sounds and looks like that plane needed to land ASAP and was dumping fuel until the last minute.
Better fuel then plane falling to ground - more people live that way
This

Also, it’s funny reading all these opinions on a boating forum. Until your are sitting in a seat in that cockpit and understand the details of what is happening at that moment, it’s best to reserve judgment until the facts come out.
 
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Singleton

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This

Also, it’s funny reading all these opinions on a boating forum. Until your are sitting in a seat in that cockpit and understand the details of what is happening at that moment, it’s best to reserve judgment until the facts come out.
Pilot dumped fuel last minute. Something not on the ATC audio video triggered that
 

Kachina26

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This

Also, it’s funny reading all these opinions on a boating forum. Until your are sitting in a seat in that cockpit and understand the details of what is happening at that moment, it’s best to reserve judgment until the facts come out.
What's the fun in that.
 

YumaRivernaut

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What I don't understand is why can our military fly tanks overseas, land and not have to worry about the fucking landing gear!?
They don't worry. If the load falls within MLW, (Maximum Landing Weight) the gear will support it as designed. The Military dumps fuel all the time as well. Besides tanks don't sue and one cannot sue the Military anyway.
1. If an aircraft cannot land fully loaded under any circumstances due to shitty landing gear, why should the FAA allow it fly?
It can land with a full passenger, cargo and fuel load and probably more as all designs and systems on aircraft are purposely over engineered and have multiple redundancies. If it did not conform to it's original Type Certificate of MTOW (Maximum Take Off Weight) MLW, The FAA would not allow it to fly. I have seen no record of the 777 having shitty landing gear, Airworthiness Directives, and/or Service Bulletins alluding to this currently or in the past.
If the fuel in the wings is "Way too heavy" and they might snap off!
Aircraft wings/spars are extremely robust as well as extremely over engineered by design and undergo severe testing requirements to be certified involving stress tests to observe when and how much force they can withstand before snapping. To repeat these stresses, it would involve forces in nature that are so severe that rarely, if ever will the wings be subjected to these kinds of loads in it's normal lifespan. The severe weather events to exert these kinds of forces do happen, but are so rare as to be rendered negligible at best. Other than from corrosion and/or maintenance neglect, wings snapping off aircraft does not really occur.
It is standard procedure in an emergency RTB (Return To Base) to dump fuel. Reason being, The MLW adherence and it's obviously better for everyone for the aircraft to be empty of flammable fuel when attempting an emergency landing than ending up in a cascading fireball when mother earth rises up and smites thee.
While I have no love lost for the airline companies, (understatement) I find it ironic as to why people who live in a valley of toxic fumes and pollution every day get so upset about an aircraft dumping fuel in an attempt to land the plane safely with minimal loss of life.
Must be the optics, sensationalism and always...about those poor children :rolleyes:
 
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