WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

**LAKE MEAD MAN MADE DOOM AND GLOOM ????**

2FORCEFULL

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In 2000 I was told about how the lake was gonna drop 150', and also was told the reason.... I shared this with others, ... through the years, It did in fact do just that.... although The news to others was too far fetched for some to believe, and the result was life long haters.... I was easier to belive that the people in vegas drank all the water, than to believe the fact that they pulled the plug and dumped 150' of water down river..... put that is history now,.. and it is easy to look at the lake level graft and see the drop,... and then level off... so not to argue... belive what you want and lets move on to todays lake rumors' if you will.......

So , heres the story...and heres the plan that is supposed to happen .... now just for fact... I will say that there is no proof to this,... and just rumor... but.... there seems to be a problem between the states... az, nv, and ca. water athority wanted AZ to pay NV to store water at mead....... AZ didn't pay so they dumped the water down river, and told az it evaporated... AZ is sucking water out of the river and pumping it to underground storage.... CA is also diverting water to their state for their use... NV is gonna shut down the dam power, and is in the process of building massive solar fields, they also put a water straw down below the level that the dam will not have enough water flow to run the generator to make power...


So, after gathering info from those supposed in the know........ here's what I think.... be prepared to see a major drop in water level at lake mead in the next two years..... there is a level that the lake has to drop to before lake mead before they can cut water supply to everyone... including AZ and CA.... water authority has been fighting with CA over waisting water for years... sure, they need the claimed water for crops.... but so much water is used to water lawns and fill pools in CA... they have no plan there to save the rain fall, and waist more then what comes down the river ...

So any way,.. time will tell... but heres whats going on at mead right now...... they will be closing the boulder ramp... and the only one will be hemming way.. horse power cove will go away and be come the marina... they are moving the docks out , and I believe it will be so close to the island, that that whole area will become the marina with east and west exits... hemming way ramp is closed as of yesterday... and looks like they are extending the ramp
 

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Boat 405

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100% man made drama. Agreed. The entire Colorado river series of reservoirs and lakes has always been a subject to drama, fear mongering and bullshit. It doesn't take much to look at trends over the years and understand where the water is going.
 

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Also this is happening right now... I launched at boulder ramp.... the exit out of there is one boat wide...... and is only 4' deep... as the water drops I think they will let the pool empty and then fill the entry with dirt so no water could get back in there if and when the water rises....but... pretty sure they will drop the level of the lake till the damn can't make power..
 

Waffles

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No doom and gloom here....and ill let those that are more in the know that work at the MWD chime in on this but no way in hell theyll choke out anything south of that dam.

water athority wanted AZ to pay NV to store water at mead....... AZ didn't pay so they dumped the water down river, and told az it evaporated...

Im not sure where you heard this one but i dont know how its feasible considering no one owns the dam thing (heh)
Just because the Hoover Dam is in nevada doesnt mean they own it and get to hold other states hostages if they dont pay up lol



And as much as everyone wants to make this into a climate change issue, its not. Increasing populations on both sides coupled with new infrastructure is the reason the water levels will continue to decrease. And thats without me bringing the 1944 Water treaty into play. Its all politics at this point.
 
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2FORCEFULL

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No doom and gloom here....and ill let those that are more in the know that work at the MWD chime in on this but no way in hell theyll choke out anything south of that dam.
As much as everyone wants to make this into a climate change issue, its not. Increasing populations on both sides coupled with new infrastructure is the reason the water levels will continue to decrease. And thats without me bringing the 1944 Water treaty into play. Its all politics at this point.
this is one of those only time will tell deals... we'll see what happens by 2022
 

2FORCEFULL

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I didn't go out to mead for memorial day.... but, what a shit show that must have been at the ramp...
 

2FORCEFULL

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At maximum capacity, Lake Mead is 112 miles (180 km) long, 532 feet (162 m) at its greatest depth, has a surface elevation of 1,221.4 feet (372.3 m) above sea level and 247 square miles (640 km 2) of surface area, and contains 26.12 million acre feet (3.222 × 10 13 L) of water.

so with a drop of 200' mead is still 332' deep..... I haven't heard whats happening at temple bar... but assume that they moved their dock out... wonder if they ran out of ramp,... we still haven't reached the low point of 2016
 

Nordie

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How can the states have any say so when the dam is controlled by the feds? To me it appears as another failed government plan. Lake Mead was never meant for Las Vegas, it was always storage for California, just like all of those solar fields in the Eldorado valley, most of that power goes to California. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I have more questions.
 

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So now Powell holds back more water?


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2FORCEFULL

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How can the states have any say so when the dam is controlled by the feds? To me it appears as another failed government plan. Lake Mead was never meant for Las Vegas, it was always storage for California, just like all of those solar fields in the Eldorado valley, most of that power goes to California. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I have more questions.
I'm with you, I have way more questions than answers... and not disagreeing with what you think.... as always, the government keeps people in the dark on what they are doing.... but... the water authority keeps going down the loop hole and doing what they think or want...
 

2FORCEFULL

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you think only nv will have access to water? no dont think it works that way
as of now,.... NV nevada doesn't use any mead water... what they take out, they put more back.... but....with the low straw... they can pretty much pull water out of mead till it's just a river.. again.... I appreciate your post, thank you for it
 

grumpy88

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There is plenty of water . Untill the govt stops giving out building permits there is obviously plenty of water to keep expanding the west . I turned on the tap this morning and it still came out just like it will tomorrow !
 

bk2drvr

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I’ve been following the low water reports recntky for Mead and Powell and it’s depressing. Ya more canyons and beaches to explore but long term it’s not good, I’d rather have high water level and fewer beaches. I tend to focus more on Powell as its inflows are controlled by Mother Nature. The marinas at both lakes are facing serious challenges as they are now moving docs and equipment so far from where from where the original infrastructure was placed. And then there is the launch ramp problem. There must be some interesting discussions going on right now about future ramps.
I watched some YouTube videos on Hite Marina on Powell, looked like a beautiful place at one time. Very depressing now. I then watched videos of 1983 Mead and water pouring over the Arizona and Nevada spillways at Hoover and wished I could have been there to see it.
 

2FORCEFULL

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las vegas has stopped the run off of mountain water with retention basins ... so it all now goes back to under groud water storage..... the water authority have been for years conserving water.... those who live here know how much money they gave out to remove lawns.... as for me....I'm on a deep, deep well, so I don't get water from mead..... when I run out of water....the world will be dry.... but ... I did take the check and removed all my lawn... and same with every home I built in havasu.... no sprinklers or pools... sure, my wife wants a pool in havasu.... but, I'm not gonna waist that much water to swim a couple times a year when the lake is just 2 miles away.....

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2FORCEFULL

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I’ve been following the low water reports recntky for Mead and Powell and it’s depressing. Ya more canyons and beaches to explore but long term it’s not good, I’d rather have high water level and fewer beaches. I tend to focus more on Powell as its inflows are controlled by Mother Nature. The marinas at both lakes are facing serious challenges as they are now moving docs and equipment so far from where from where the original infrastructure was placed. And then there is the launch ramp problem. There must be some interesting discussions going on right now about future ramps.
I watched some YouTube videos on Hite Marina on Powell, looked like a beautiful place at one time. Very depressing now. I then watched videos of 1983 Mead and water pouring over the Arizona and Nevada spillways at Hoover and wished I could have been there to see it.
that was another tree hugger event.....do you know why mead filled up ????
 

Waffles

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as of now,.... NV nevada doesn't use any mead water... what they take out, they put more back.... but....with the low straw... they can pretty much pull water out of mead till it's just a river.. again.... I appreciate your post, thank you for it
Im confused by this. So they do or they dont? If they dont use mead water, where do they get if from?
 

QC22

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I tend to focus more on Powell as its inflows are controlled by Mother Nature.

So, I get all of my info here: https://www.cbrfc.noaa.gov/ You can switch between snow, river, and reservoirs. All of the dots in this picture are reservoirs and you can see that they are storing more water above Powell even. I think this is a good strategy if there is low runoff. Gives them the ability to release water to Powell and then Mead for longer in a season.

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2FORCEFULL

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Im confused by this. So they do or they dont? If they dont use mead water, where do they get if from?
here, let me explain...lol...lets say you start out with 1000 dollars in the bank... every Wednesday you draw out 100 dollars,..... but every friday you put back 110 dollars...so in theory, you did use a hundered a week.... but, you put back more than you took out... so yes they used the back to store the money ... but none is missing that wasn't replaced...
 

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Just a little food for thought.......

If the Army Core of Engineers and the Bureau of Reclamation had not been in competition with each other in the 1920’s, it is conceivable that the Colorado River would have been just like the rivers in the eastern U.S. Just imagine putting your boat in the water in Yuma, then boating to Boulder City, Nevada. Making multiple stops on the way, at resort towns along the waterway.

I am happy this did not happen in the East. There would be NO great loop, or other boating opportunities.

Just reminiscing on “What could have been”
 

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las vegas has stopped the run off of mountain water with retention basins ... so it all now goes back to under groud water storage..... the water authority have been for years conserving water.... those who live here know how much money they gave out to remove lawns.... as for me....I'm on a deep, deep well, so I don't get water from mead..... when I run out of water....the world will be dry.... but ... I did take the check and removed all my lawn... and same with every home I built in havasu.... no sprinklers or pools... sure, my wife wants a pool in havasu.... but, I'm not gonna waist that much water to swim a couple times a year when the lake is just 2 miles away.....

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Mead has gone down 11.6 feet in the last 95 days.
1,084.4 feet above sea level down to 1,072.8 feet above sea level.
If the trajectory stays the same in the next 6 months then Mead could see 1,050 feet above sea level and at that point the turbines that generate power could be struggling to keep up with demand.

The River needs rain of epic portions asap. Its a supply and demand issue, imo.

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2FORCEFULL

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There is plenty of water . Untill the govt stops giving out building permits there is obviously plenty of water to keep expanding the west . I turned on the tap this morning and it still came out just like it will tomorrow !
A multitude agree, that's why we are the most water waisting generation ever....what really made me think of the amount of water we waist is RV'ing... when I first started, we would run out of water packing 100 gallons..through the years, I learned to conserve, I now take 60 gallons,... and bring back 30... I bring 4 gallons of drinking water for cooking, coffee and such...rare that I turn on the cold water,...that way you don't have to let the water run for minutes to shower, and I don't let the water run.. you can brush your teeth with 1/2 cup of water,.. but most let the water run the whole time
 

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I’m going to Powell in August and going to motor up to see Cathedral in the Desert in the Escalante Arm and try and park the boat and get some great pics in Reflection Canyon. I’ve spent most of my time in the Face and West Canyon area and Rainbow Bridge of course but want to see the upper parts of the lake. The cave at rock creek is huge right now due to low water level. Will run over to Gunsight and Padre Bay on one of the days. Not sure where I will launch. Would prefer Antelope especially since I’m heading so far up the lake on day one.
 

2FORCEFULL

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I know you posted a year or so ago on why Mead will never be high again but I missed it.
this is what I was told when they dumpped it.... with the water at that level they were losing way to much to evap... that and there was no water flow in the coves causing pollution , those that boat havasu can remember when they were dumping mead, all that polluted water killed the fish down stream... belly up fish every where... when the lake was up, there was a constant flow, (river like) coming into vegas wash, water stunk there, the reason was all the gutter water from vegas with weed killers and such.... now that water just dries up in the desert,... the good mountian run off water goes back under ground...
 

Waffles

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here, let me explain...lol...lets say you start out with 1000 dollars in the bank... every Wednesday you draw out 100 dollars,..... but every friday you put back 110 dollars...so in theory, you did use a hundered a week.... but, you put back more than you took out... so yes they used the back to store the money ... but none is missing that wasn't replaced...
Thats not how the hydrologic cycle or even reclamation works though. Whatever water you take out of your well for you to use, for example, doesnt get dumped back into mead after its been reclaimed.
 

2FORCEFULL

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Thats not how the hydrologic cycle or even reclamation works though. Whatever water you take out of your well for you to use, for example, doesnt get dumped back into mead after its been reclaimed.
every ounce of water I use stays at my house, or evaps
 

2FORCEFULL

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Thats not how the hydrologic cycle or even reclamation works though. Whatever water you take out of your well for you to use, for example, doesnt get dumped back into mead after its been reclaimed.
let me try one more time, for every gallon of water the city of las vegas pulls from mead, they return one gallon
 

2FORCEFULL

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No doom and gloom here....and ill let those that are more in the know that work at the MWD chime in on this but no way in hell theyll choke out anything south of that dam.



Im not sure where you heard this one but i dont know how its feasible considering no one owns the dam thing (heh)
Just because the Hoover Dam is in nevada doesnt mean they own it and get to hold other states hostages if they dont pay up lol



And as much as everyone wants to make this into a climate change issue, its not. Increasing populations on both sides coupled with new infrastructure is the reason the water levels will continue to decrease. And thats without me bringing the 1944 Water treaty into play. Its all politics at this point.
Google is your friend here....read up on the issue, then get back...
 

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Unless you have some sort of wastewater treatment facility on site, it doesnt lol
I always take the opportunity to learn something new, but when someone keeps say'n a grasshopper can pull a plow,... I say prove it... so,... in the interest of learning some thing new, even if it will make my belief wrong for my whole life.... I say to you this,... you know,... since you seem to know....... what does happen to the water I use???? besides pissing in the corner of my back yard??????
 

3queens

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There is always some back door BS going on nowadays
Comifornia hasn't built a water reservoir since Roosevelt ------why not ??????

MORE CONTROL ------------Water is life not lawn food -----------
 

Waffles

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Google is your friend here....read up on the issue, then get back...
Im a licensed Water Treatment and Distribution Operator here in Ca...
I also hold a CSM cert through the CWEA but thats neither here nor there lol
I might be wet behind the ears (heh) with my T2/D2 but ive read up and written quite a bit on this subject lol
 
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Christopher Lucero

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this is sad. I was there in '85 (?) when the spillway was draining the pool. it was hypnotic and vertigo inducing to watch that mass of water moving away, acccelerating into that big cement tube.
here's the timelapse.
in the late 90's, during our prime Sandy Point vacation tripping, we used to be able to travel upriver (~10 miles) into the West Grand Canyon when the heat got unbearable during the July and August days. even did some skiing and tubing au naturelle in the canyon. It used to be cool to pass the marker buoy stating "Entering Grand Canyon" and keep going to the falls.
 
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2FORCEFULL

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There is always some back door BS going on nowadays
Comifornia hasn't built a water reservoir since Roosevelt ------why not ??????

MORE CONTROL ------------Water is life not lawn food -----------
thats part of the argument between W.A. and CA, w.a. wants CA to conserve more... CA wants to sore water in mead and so does AZ.... W. A. said ok,.. then pony up part of the cost to run the dam ... CA and AZ have water rights to water that comes down the river.... they stored it in lake mead...sure, they have un revoke able river water rights.... but if there's no water in mead... they don't..
 

MSum661

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this is sad. I was there in '85 (?) when the spillway was draining the pool. it was hypnotic and vertigo inducing to watch that mass of water moving away, acccelerating into that big cement tube.

Just looking at the spillway empty is wild. The magnitude of work that went into all that is crazy!!
 

2FORCEFULL

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this is sad. I was there in '85 (?) when the spillway was draining the pool. it was hypnotic and vertigo inducing to watch that mass of water moving away, acccelerating into that big cement tube.
probley was cool watching parker get flooded...but,... I know why it happened,... and bet they never try that again....
 

C-Ya

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Im a licensed Water Treatment and Distribution Operator here in Ca...
I also hold a CSM cert through the CWEA but thats neither here nor there lol
I might be wet behind the ears (heh) with my T2/D2 but ive read up and written quite a bit on this subject lol


Waffles, I am curious, what does a Water Treatment and Distribution Operator do? Do you run a water treatment operation for some municipality? Again, just curious and looking to learn something. So far, it sure looks like you know what you are talking about. Just saying
 

2FORCEFULL

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Im a licensed Water Treatment and Distribution Operator here in Ca...
I also hold a CSM cert through the CWEA but thats neither here nor there lol
I might be wet behind the ears (heh) with my T2/D2 but ive read up and written quite a bit on this subject lol
so you didn't have to take a test to get the job,.... comming from CA, I have to believe you....
 

2FORCEFULL

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Waffles, I am curious, what does a Water Treatment and Distribution Operator do? Do you run a water treatment operation for some municipality? Again, just curious and looking to learn something. So far, it sure looks like you know what you are talking about. Just saying
Water treatment plant and system operators oversee the treatment and distribution of freshwater, as it is pumped from wells, rivers, or reservoirs to water treatment plants. They monitor and maintain the equipment and control the processes that treat water to make it safe to drink.
 

2FORCEFULL

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the replies here are pretty typical......nothing to see here.... please move on....lol there's no voter fraud, and people drank all the water....
 

Racey

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Nevada doesn't control the level of mead, period, the Federal Gov does via the Bureau of Reclamation.

Vegas had to put a straw in lower because the existing straw was getting very close to the surface, surface water is also warmer so it has more algae, bacteria etc. They put the straw in planning for the fact that the lake could go down further.

Population of the SW has exploded in the last 20 years, more people = more water, mainly because of crops, not necessarily because of homes, water that enters the sewer system is almost fully reclaimed in the Vegas Valley and put back into the system clean. I remember reading some report that said on net Vegas consumes around 1% of the total flow through Mead on an annual basis. If you look at the percentages of water that leave the system on net Agriculture is by far the biggest consumer, and the SW and country as a whole consumes far more agriculture today than it did 20 years ago. All those crops need water, including the ones in mexico that come back across the border to your grocery store.

Powell and Mead were not put in place to remain "full", they act as the primary buffers and storage mechanisms for the entire system. A system that has been able to weather droughts through decades, and they have accomplished that goal so far.

From 2000 to 2020 the Southwest States of CA, NV, AZ, and UT have added 11 million persons to their populations.

From 2000 to 2020 the US as a whole has added 50 million persons.
 
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The DWOCP is responsible for the testing and certification of approximately 35,000 water treatment and water distribution operators throughout the state of California.
 
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