WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

**LAKE MEAD MAN MADE DOOM AND GLOOM ????**

2FORCEFULL

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true about diamond valley. My uncle in law (wife’s uncle) was one of the project leads for Metropolitan Water District on that. He was the one in charge of water quality and he fought to NOT have two strokes banned there. (He lost that fight to politicians who wanted them banned anyway).

anyway, Diamond valley is tiny, and regional. It does not get its water from far away where water is more plentiful. It’s a storage tank that gets water from a place where water is already scarce.

yes, it will rain and snow again like it does every few years and the small regional bathtubs like Diamond valley or oroville in NorCal will fill up. BUT the real sources, the ones that matter, like lake mead and lake Powell will not fill up. They will rise a little. Bery little. But that is all. Then they will fall again like the bathtubs. They will not ever fill up again. Ever. Not with three to five times the population they were built to serve. Period. The only way Mead and Powell will ever fill up again will be if MAJOR infrastructure is built, that takes water from wet areas and moves it too where it’s needed, like the one the bureau of reclamation and the Central Valley authority had planned.

-Peter
there is one thing that never lies..... math...
.there are two theories of where the water in mead went...first it was used.... total impossible....
second
it was dumped out...

so with a theories, one must wait out time and history to see what really happened....as of now... it is fact....

the only way mead water could lower so drastic as it did was to release the water down stream.... sure you can say the water was used, and over buiding, over water crops and such,... but all that happens after mead....
 

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The Las Vegas Valley diverts almost a half a million (450,000) acre-feet of water annually for drinking and household needs, irrigation for parks and golf courses, and industrial use. Forty percent of that water is returned to Lake Mead as treated wastewater.
 

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the only way mead water could lower so drastic as it did was to release the water down stream.... sure you can say the water was used, and over buiding, over water crops and such,... but all that happens after mead....
Uh, I think we are saying the same thing. Mead water is released downstream... enough so that Mojave and Have'a'screw lake levels are maintained while Mead suffers the lowering. Do we disagree here?

The major pumpout from the Colorado River to SoCal is from a closed off part of Havasu called "Intake", where there is a bank of giant electric pumps that pumps out up over a hill and into the MWD network. My wife was born there. Her dad grew up there. Her grandpa was the foreman of the pumping station. He lived there on site, as well as a few other houses for his men, to keep the pumps running. Wife's grandpa walked to work every day from the house you can barely see all the way over to the left of the photo, keeping the pumping station working. Of course, sometimes he had to go out in the middle of the night, too.

Of boating interest.... Evinrude used that closed off portion of Havasu for motor and speed testing. And they were super polite to Grandpa. Gave him free motors for his fishing boat invited him to parties and dinners they hosted in the area throughout the sixties and early seventies. I got to inherit some of those vintage outboard parts myself.

LOS_ANGELES_METROPOLITAN_WATER_DISTRICT_AQUEDUCT_ON_HAVASU_LAKE_-_NARA_-_548942_(cropped).jpg


-Peter
 
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2FORCEFULL

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Uh, I think we are saying the same thing. Mead water is released downstream... enough so that Mojave and Have'a'screw lake levels are maintained while Mead suffers the lowering. Do we disagree here?

-Peter
well, I think so,... if you are saying mead released 150' of water out of mead, what happened to the water after that.....IDK,.. but i do know that for the first time in 50 years the river flowed to the ocean..so,.. do we still agree.
 

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well, I think so,... if you are saying mead released 150' of water out of mead, what happened to the water after that.....IDK,.. but i do know that for the first time in 50 years the river flowed to the ocean..so,.. do we still agree.
The water is continuously released. That is what is keeping Mojave and Havasu full. Without continuous release of Mead water, Mojave and Havasu could not remain full as they are. This is the math you are speaking of.

And yes, CA pumps a lot of drinking water into the ocean to irrigate perennial streams at the behest of crooked politicians courting the green vote. You should not be pumping fresh water into the ocean during a shortage. IMHO. But they didn't ask me.

-Peter
 

2FORCEFULL

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The water is continuously released. That is what is keeping Mojave and Havasu full. Without continuous release of Mead water, Mojave and Havasu could not remain full as they are. This is the math you are speaking of
-Peter
no.... I'm speaking of the fact that during a so-called drought... they were releasing 2 to 3 time more water during the time frame of 2000 to now,...
 

pcrussell50

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no.... I'm speaking of the fact that during a so-called drought... they were releasing 2 to 3 time more water during the time frame of 2000 to now,...
I still don't know how this puts us in disagreement. They are doing it to keep Havasu full, so the pump-out from Havasu to SoCal keeps working. What am I missing here?

-Peter
 

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Of boating interest.... Evinrude used that closed off portion of Havasu for motor and speed testing. And they were super polite to Grandpa. Gave him free motors for his fishing boat invited him to parties and dinners they hosted in the area throughout the sixties and early seventies. I got to inherit some of those vintage outboard parts myself.

View attachment 1045972

-Peter
[/QUOTE]

What closed off portion?
 

pcrussell50

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Of boating interest.... Evinrude used that closed off portion of Havasu for motor and speed testing. And they were super polite to Grandpa. Gave him free motors for his fishing boat invited him to parties and dinners they hosted in the area throughout the sixties and early seventies. I got to inherit some of those vintage outboard parts myself.

View attachment 1045972

-Peter
What closed off portion?
[/QUOTE]

Hmmm... Looking at google maps at the intake pump camp, it doesn't appear to be on it's own inlet. I'll have to ask my FIL for clarification why Evinrude was so close to them growing up at Intake Camp.

EDIT: I'm going to guess that back in 1966, Havasu Springs resort didn't exist, and Evinrude just roped off that eastern part of the lake from the Intake station onward and used Intake's launch ramp as their base of operations. But that's just a guess. I will confirm later with either the FIL or uncle-in-law, who both grew up in the Metropolitan Water District houses behind the intake. I also inherited a hand signed book about Evinrude's race motor development program days they did back then.

-Peter
 
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2FORCEFULL

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I still don't know how this puts us in disagreement. They are doing it to keep Havasu full, so the pump-out from Havasu to SoCal keeps working. What am I missing here?

-Peter
here's what you are missing,... yes mohave and havasu were full.. infact, what they did at powell and mead caused mohave and havasu,.. and parker to release more water to keep from flooding parker... and parker also released record amounts,..sure, there was a drought... but you would have never known it at mohave,havasu, or parker...all throught the years they cryed to mead to slow down,.. havasu channel was up the sea wall... sand bar was but a little strip...even though there was a drought.... had mead released the same amount,... mead would have at least another 100' of water in it...
 

2FORCEFULL

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here's another fact,... so far, in the last 20 plus years,... I'm the only one posting the truth,... and it's backed by math and history....

I don't wanna be a republican, democrat or liberal ... I wanna be part of the "WE THE PEOPLE" that lives by and respects the constitution ... fuc the gov. that thinks that they should hide from the people, and only their group gets to know what going on...straight out lying to the people ???? they shoud hang the bastard...

speaking of.... DEMOCRATS..... pretty easy to see their plan..... "DEMO"
 

prorider

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here's another fact,... so far, in the last 20 plus years,... I'm the only one posting the truth,... and it's backed by math and history....

I don't wanna be a republican, democrat or liberal ... I wanna be part of the "WE THE PEOPLE" that lives by and respects the constitution ... fuc the gov. that thinks that they should hide from the people, and only their group gets to know what going on...straight out lying to the people ???? they shoud hang the bastard...

speaking of.... DEMOCRATS..... pretty easy to see their plan..... "DEMO"
Dude,you need to quit drinking. Jesus fucking Christ. We are in a 20 something year drought. Yes they waste water but your ideas are fucking stupid.
 

2FORCEFULL

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Dude,you need to quit drinking. Jesus fucking Christ. We are in a 20 something year drought. Yes they waste water but your ideas are fucking stupid.
and you're a fuc'n idiot so we're even, with all due respect
 

2FORCEFULL

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Dude,you need to quit drinking. Jesus fucking Christ. We are in a 20 something year drought. Yes they waste water but your ideas are fucking stupid.
so where is your proof.... anyone can type someting,.. or any thing.. I know Racey, and respect him,... I have been try'n to pry out of him what he knows. and bretty sure he knows the truth...what I type is backed by the math... for 20 years they let out more water then they ever have..
fact!!!!! if powell dumped the same amount as mead... powell would be bone dry and mead still full... you don't have to agree with anything,... but you don't need to attack me either... post something usefull beside the hate you store... have a great fuc'n day..
 

hallett21

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so where is your proof.... anyone can type someting,.. or any thing.. I know Racey, and respect him,... I have been try'n to pry out of him what he knows. and bretty sure he knows the truth...what I type is backed by the math... for 20 years they let out more water then they ever have..
fact!!!!! if powell dumped the same amount as mead... powell would be bone dry and mead still full... you don't have to agree with anything,... but you don't need to attack me either... post something usefull beside the hate you store... have a great fuc'n day..
The “math” doesn’t add up though.

Both Mead and Powell have fallen over the last couple years. But water only made it to the gulf one time (unless they did it again?).


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2FORCEFULL

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The “math” doesn’t add up though.

Both Mead and Powell have fallen over the last couple years. But water only made it to the gulf one time (unless they did it again?).


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the math doesn't lie.... the water from mead and powell could not be used by az and ca,... I total agree that there was a huge drought... and total agree that conservation is every ones responsibility.... but to reply to your post you need to put up the math that doesn't add up... also, while we were in a drought ,... why did powell and mead release record amounts of water instead of minimal required???? and why is that exact what the guy 20 years ago said is what happened???? and why did the water drop right to where the feds stepped in and then leveled off... all that is history right now and easy to see..
 

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the math doesn't lie.... the water from mead and powell could not be used by az and ca,... I total agree that there was a huge drought... and total agree that conservation is every ones responsibility.... but to reply to your post you need to put up the math that doesn't add up... also, while we were in a drought ,... why did powell and mead release record amounts of water instead of minimal required???? and why is that exact what the guy 20 years ago said is what happened???? and why did the water drop right to where the feds stepped in and then leveled off... all that is history right now and easy to see..
Yet...

We are all still waiting to hear what the reason/end game for this was/is?
 

2FORCEFULL

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for me, it's easier to believe that they planed to lower the level 150', then to believe that they had psychic powers 20 years ago, and moved all the marina's because they knew it wasn't going to rain for 20 years,.. and also put a straw in that's below dead pool level....
 

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Yet...

We are all still waiting to hear what the reason/end game for this was/is?
well, here you go...I believe... not fact, or mathematical, I think it was to cut off the amount of water AZ and cal gets as they would not do what the WA asked...
 

hallett21

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the math doesn't lie.... the water from mead and powell could not be used by az and ca,... I total agree that there was a huge drought... and total agree that conservation is every ones responsibility.... but to reply to your post you need to put up the math that doesn't add up... also, while we were in a drought ,... why did powell and mead release record amounts of water instead of minimal required???? and why is that exact what the guy 20 years ago said is what happened???? and why did the water drop right to where the feds stepped in and then leveled off... all that is history right now and easy to see..
I guess what I’m saying is that it wasn’t “dumped”. If it was the river would be consistently running to the gulf.

Instead it’s being sucked out and used by agriculture, commercial and residential.


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rivermobster

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well, here you go...I believe... not fact, or mathematical, I think it was to cut off the amount of water AZ and cal gets as they would not do what the WA asked...
Interesting.

CA has the most rights to the water in the lakes.

AZ was the last state to sign on to the "agreements" and now they have a minimum allotment.

AZ is is already being cut off. CA will be the last in line for reductions.

So you're suggesting someone in WA is butt hurt, and intentionally forced the people who control the dam releases, to "dump" all the water out of the lakes?

Do I have this right?
 

2FORCEFULL

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LOL... what a shocker.....


Ninety percent of southern Nevada’s water comes from Lake Mead, with releases regulated by the Southern Nevada Water Authority.



Lake Mead water supports diverse uses in the West. It irrigates about a million acres of farmland in the United States, much of it in southern California’s Imperial Valley, and another half million acres in northern Mexico as part of international water agreements. The water released through the dam can be used to generate electricity for about 500,000 homes and to lift water up over the Sierra Nevada Mountains to irrigate southern California, but power generation is secondary to agricultural and municipal water demands in places like southern California, central Arizona, and southern Nevada.
Ninety percent of southern Nevada’s water comes from Lake Mead, with releases regulated by the Southern Nevada Water Authority. When the water levels in the lake are declining and expected to cross below an elevation of 1,145 feet, the Water Authority declares a Drought Watch. Once the water is below 1,145 feet, the watch is shifted to a Drought Alert—the status in May 2003, when the latter Landsat image was acquired. If the lake top drops below 1,125 feet, a Drought Emergency goes into effect. Each of these water-level alert states triggers various water restrictions and practices in the area, from restrictions on watering gardens, washing cars, running fountains in civic parks and public places, to increases in the rates charged for water to encourage conservation. The water elevation last dropped below 1,125 feet in 1965.
In the Boulder Basin of Lake Mead, the lower water level has connected former islands like Saddle Island to the shoreline. The National Park Service has also moved marinas to the new shoreline or new sites, such as moving Las Vegas Bay marina to Hemenway Harbor. (Image by Jesse Allen, based on data provided by the Landsat 7 Science Team)
Graph of Annual Lake Mead Water Levels
 

2FORCEFULL

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Interesting.

CA has the most rights to the water in the lakes.

AZ was the last state to sign on to the "agreements" and now they have a minimum allotment.

AZ is is already being cut off. CA will be the last in line for reductions.

So you're suggesting someone in WA is butt hurt, and intentionally forced the people who control the dam releases, to "dump" all the water out of the lakes?

Do I have this right?
Ninety percent of southern Nevada’s water comes from Lake Mead, with releases regulated by the Southern Nevada Water Authority.


Drought Lowers Lake Mead (nasa.gov)
 

2FORCEFULL

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I also know this,... salt lake tacked on 400% to water bills because of the drought, they said, we will find those waisting water easy, drive down the street and see green grass,
 

hallett21

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The graph you just posted shows this drought has happened before. 1955 and 1965 +/-


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2FORCEFULL

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This does not answer my last question to you.

Care to give it another shot?

Do I have this right? ... you stated your opinion, so you must ask yourself the question... I just post where WA does infact controll the wtaer release of mead.. and the results of the lower levels they dropped to,.. as to why,.. I could only have my opinion, or guess,.. so there is no right or wrong... unless you are the person doing it..
 

2FORCEFULL

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The graph you just posted shows this drought has happened before. 1955 and 1965 +/-


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did you read the part that says water authority controll the release of water at mead.... the graph was not supposed to post.. just the paragraph
 

hallett21

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From your article



Water flows out of Lake Mead at roughly the same rate from year to year (though irrigation demand fluctuates with rainfall). Inflow depends on release from Lake Powell. In years with much less snow, as has been the case in the past several years, Lake Powell releases only the minimum flow rate required by law. This inflow from Lake Powell is less than the outflow from Lake Mead, and water levels in Lake Mead will continue to decrease until the next heavy snow season. A Drought Emergency might well be declared before next spring’s influx of snowmelt.


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Do I have this right? ... you stated your opinion, so you must ask yourself the question... I just post where WA does infact controll the wtaer release of mead.. and the results of the lower levels they dropped to,.. as to why,.. I could only have my opinion, or guess,.. so there is no right or wrong... unless you are the person doing it..
I was NOT stating my opinion. I was trying to clarify what you are trying to say the end game for these water dumps are.

Just wanted you to verify if I was interpreting your senario correctly, or not?
 

2FORCEFULL

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I was NOT stating my opinion. I was trying to clarify what you are trying to say the end game for these water dumps are.

Just wanted you to verify if I was interpreting your senario correctly, or not?
if it was this question,...

So you're suggesting someone in WA is butt hurt, and intentionally forced the people who control the dam releases, to "dump" all the water out of the lakes?

the WA is the people in charge of water release,... so hard to answer,..
 

2FORCEFULL

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From your article



Water flows out of Lake Mead at roughly the same rate from year to year (though irrigation demand fluctuates with rainfall). Inflow depends on release from Lake Powell. In years with much less snow, as has been the case in the past several years, Lake Powell releases only the minimum flow rate required by law. This inflow from Lake Powell is less than the outflow from Lake Mead, and water levels in Lake Mead will continue to decrease until the next heavy snow season. A Drought Emergency might well be declared before next spring’s influx of snowmelt.


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this is very true with history to back,... but once they decided to lower mead, as in my previous post,.. the amount of water released almost doubled... before 2000 , the numbers were right around 9MAF,,, after 2000, they went as high as 17 MAF per day... anyone that went to havasu for the last 20 years will tell you,... no signs of drought... lakes full
 

2FORCEFULL

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I invite all to go back and read post 467.... they only have to release 9 maf. some spot checked days were 14 MAF....
 

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Steve, I think what we all want to know is...

Why?
thats a great big WHY,.. Why does one man say no pipe line, why does one man run the country??? what happened to WE THE PEOPLE , why don't we get to vote on things that effect us all???why does the goverment get to hide stuff from "WE THE PEOPLE".. you look back in history and hardly ever see men wearing short pants,... thats cause those guys had a huge set of balls... they stood up when the gov. told them to sit down..
 

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guys like biden,... he won't live long enough to enjoy how bad he fucked the american people...they do polls constantly,.. why can't they put controversy laws and changes to a vote first... I know for fact I never voted for higher fuel prices right when so many were not working.... I know I never voted for people not having to pay their rent.... why didn't they say no tax?????

and to get back on topic... why didn't they say what they wanted to do and let the people decide if it was a good idea... I know I never voted to shut down all the boat ramps...

kinda like buying a new boat,... first you have sell the idea to your wife,,, and some times it's met with resistance.....so you debate
 

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guys like biden,... he won't live long enough to enjoy how bad he fucked the american people...they do polls constantly,.. why can't they put controversy laws and changes to a vote first... I know for fact I never voted for higher fuel prices right when so many were not working.... I know I never voted for people not having to pay their rent.... why didn't they say no tax?????

and to get back on topic... why didn't they say what they wanted to do and let the people decide if it was a good idea... I know I never voted to shut down all the boat ramps...

kinda like buying a new boat,... first you have sell the idea to your wife,,, and some times it's met with resistance.....so you debate
Well...

If you want to be consulted on the next boat ramp closures, you could apply here.

"Program Overview - The University of Oklahoma" https://www.ouhydrologyonline.com/program-overview/

The prerequisites look a little tough for a dumb ass like me. 😉

Prerequisites:
B.S. in a STEM major
Coursework (C or higher) in the following areas:
Calculus I
Calculus II
Chemistry
Physics (calculus-based)
Biological or Physical Science course

Good luck! 👍
 

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did you read the part that says water authority controll the release of water at mead.... the graph was not supposed to post.. just the paragraph
To be clear here, your SNWA does NOT control water released downstream thru Hoover Dam. It only controls the “release” of its own allocation of annual acre feet FROM the lake itself. BOR controls what is released by the dams.
 

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To be clear here, your SNWA does NOT control water released downstream thru Hoover Dam. It only controls the “release” of its own allocation of annual acre feet FROM the lake itself. BOR controls what is released by the dams.
interesting, i've lived in vegas since 1957 and never knew that SNWA had their own section of the dam that they release water from... thankyou for the post... I made the mistake of googling who controls the water release from hover Dam,.. it dirrected me to a gov site that siad SNWA... but they left out the part about only being able to release their own water... typical Gov....
 

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Ninety percent of southern Nevada’s water comes from Lake Mead, with releases regulated by the Southern Nevada Water Authority.


this is a copy paste from the GOV web site...
 

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Ninety percent of southern Nevada’s water comes from Lake Mead, with releases regulated by the Southern Nevada Water Authority.


this is a copy paste from the GOV web site...
LOL
So then…….WHAT THE FUCK DID SNWA DO WITH ALL THE MISSING WATER???? 🤡
 

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When the water levels in the lake are declining and expected to cross below an elevation of 1,145 feet, the Water Authority declares a Drought Watch. Once the water is below 1,145 feet, the watch is shifted to a Drought Alert—
 

2FORCEFULL

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LOL
So then…….WHAT THE FUCK DID SNWA DO WITH ALL THE MISSING WATER???? 🤡
it went to parker and down the river...I have no doubt cal sucked up a lions share,, and I believe between the saudi 's and cal that is the reason the released so much water to cause a man made water shortage to get the feds to cut back the water they get.... but who knows... those that really know would never tell.. but the fact is there's 150' of water missing from lake mead, and a bunch gone from powell,...those that wanna believe that it was not released from mead and vegas sucked mead dry... go ahead... believe what you want... i'm collecting water bottles like toilet paper in case you all are right....mead should be complete dry by 2022....LOL... read that also a few years back...
 

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interesting, i've lived in vegas since 1957 and never knew that SNWA had their own section of the dam that they release water from... thankyou for the post... I made the mistake of googling who controls the water release from hover Dam,.. it dirrected me to a gov site that siad SNWA... but they left out the part about only being able to release their own water... typical Gov....
I’m a bit confused by this but again, the SNWA has zero control of dam releases downstream. They get their allocation from the R.B. Griffith plant, which pulls directly from the lake itself. Again, no control of dam releases, that’s all BOR. I’m not understanding how you think the smallest allocation (owner) of all the water rights, upper or lower basin, is somehow involved in an artificial lowering of the lake level? Not saying there isn’t one, just makes no sense SWNA would play any significant role in it.
 

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I’m a bit confused by this but again, the SNWA has zero control of dam releases downstream. They get their allocation from the R.B. Griffith plant, which pulls directly from the lake itself. Again, no control of dam releases, that’s all BOR. I’m not understanding how you think the smallest allocation (owner) of all the water rights, upper or lower basin, is somehow involved in an artificial lowering of the lake level? Not saying there isn’t one, just makes no sense SWNA would play any significant role in it.
make it a great day....
 

Flying_Lavey

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interesting, i've lived in vegas since 1957 and never knew that SNWA had their own section of the dam that they release water from... thankyou for the post... I made the mistake of googling who controls the water release from hover Dam,.. it dirrected me to a gov site that siad SNWA... but they left out the part about only being able to release their own water... typical Gov....
you mean something like this site.....

.

that there has the ADDRESS of the operations office of the dam. Those are the guys that control Hoover dam's releases. NOT SNWA. SNWA controls their straws. That is it.

Your conversation from 20 years ago have have been exactly like you said and its intentions were precisely this, but when you say "they" I am inclined to think the feds are the one driving this ship as THEY are the ONLY entity that has the legal authority to do so.
 

2FORCEFULL

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you mean something like this site.....

.

that there has the ADDRESS of the operations office of the dam. Those are the guys that control Hoover dam's releases. NOT SNWA. SNWA controls their straws. That is it.

Your conversation from 20 years ago have have been exactly like you said and its intentions were precisely this, but when you say "they" I am inclined to think the feds are the one driving this ship as THEY are the ONLY entity that has the legal authority to do so.
kinda right,... the fed had "NO" authority till the lake dropped.... now they can shut off the water to the saudi's and make them go home and grow their grass...
 

Loo Dog

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you mean something like this site.....

.

that there has the ADDRESS of the operations office of the dam. Those are the guys that control Hoover dam's releases. NOT SNWA. SNWA controls their straws. That is it.

Your conversation from 20 years ago have have been exactly like you said and its intentions were precisely this, but when you say "they" I am inclined to think the feds are the one driving this ship as THEY are the ONLY entity that has the legal authority to do so.
Maybe there’s a better explanation of the “conversation” he had with someone back then. I ran across a little tidbit where I found the SNWA didn’t even exist or control the straw and pumping facilities until the early 90’s. Prior to that it was all still run by BOR. The person Steve talked to was more than likely a federale’ at the time, depending on the actual timing.

 
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