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**LAKE MEAD MAN MADE DOOM AND GLOOM ????**

retaocleg

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Southern california has always been and will always be an arid desert that will have cyclical droughts. The Colorado River Aqueduct was first formed because LA was growing at an increasing rate during the early 1900's.......As population grew, so did the need for a greater supply. Enter the California state water project of 1960 that helps supply a huge percentage of Socal.
and they purposly dumped water to fain drought to get reluctant people to approve the funding........
 

2FORCEFULL

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Before they shut it down it was a 24’ limit. Not sure once it reopens. Boulder will be closing July 1st if not sooner. I was told they were going to dredge the cut so it will be usable again, but I haven’t seen that in writing anywhere. You may have to go to Calville.
here's how it was weds... the cut was 4' deep and the pond was 8'... if the lake drops another 8' it will all be dry with 4' of water trapped,... if the rumor is true, they will cut a 4' ditch to let the water drain out...who's know whats really going on,... most of my posts are just guessing by what I heard.... but it did look like they were gonna extend the hemming way ramp,...I was told in 2000 that they were gonna move vegas wash and lake mead marina down to hemming way,... so what I was told came true... even though every one said , it'll never happen, they can't do that, and on and on...it did happen... while we were out on the water my wife asked....where are all the concrete blocks with boots chained to them... it seems that there would be all kinds of stuff down 200'... but we saw nothing
 

2FORCEFULL

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Fucking hell I wish I would’ve known this in advance. My no experience necessary ass wouldn’t have had to deal with this unnecessary line of questioning 😂

View attachment 1009583
I was kidding with you buddy...I have an 8th grade education, and was a union carpenter @ 15.... worked out at diablo canyon at avila beach
some times I think evolution does more harm than good, who ever thought we needed atomic weapons' was crazy to the highest's level....
but, as far as mead goes... once out on the water , it's great.. water is super clean now, most every where we went the water was deeper than my 200' dept gauge
 

2FORCEFULL

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anyway,... the reason for the post was to let boaters planning a trip to mead. might wanna check first, there's only one ramp open on the south side , and it might not be open with the current rate the waters dropping...
 

C-Ya

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If any of you guys ever want to read a book about this topic....... it’s called Cadillac Desert. It is the history of water rights and dam development in the west. I read it 20 years ago. It was very interesting, BUT it is one of the longest books I ever read. Over 600 pages. But really interesting.

It covers all the dams. The agreement with Az, Nv, and Ca. Water theft. Especially the theft of Lake Owens by Mulhulland, when he purchased land continuous to Los Angeles, then stole the water in the Owens Valley. It covers central Ca and Az’s farmland. Lake Powell is covered and the history of damming the west. Corporate farming. Their are more water laws broken than you can shake a stick at, especially when it comes to corporate farming.

Here is a hilarious part of the book. The final chapter basically says that one day in the future, the United States will be forced to invade Canada, in order to get their water.
 

gottaminute?

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If any of you guys ever want to read a book about this topic....... it’s called Cadillac Desert. It is the history of water rights and dam development in the west. I read it 20 years ago. It was very interesting, BUT it is one of the longest books I ever read. Over 600 pages. But really interesting.

It covers all the dams. The agreement with Az, Nv, and Ca. Water theft. Especially the theft of Lake Owens by Mulhulland, when he purchased land continuous to Los Angeles, then stole the water in the Owens Valley. It covers central Ca and Az’s farmland. Lake Powell is covered and the history of damming the west. Corporate farming. Their are more water laws broken than you can shake a stick at, especially when it comes to corporate farming.

Here is a hilarious part of the book. The final chapter basically says that one day in the future, the United States will be forced to invade Canada, in order to get their water.
Another very informative book on water rights, collection, conservation and recycling is "Let there be water". An easy read that covers Isreal's (a desert) struggles and solutions managing the water. It hits on drip irrigation, pumping treated water out to farming areas and bringing the "fresh" water into the populated areas. explains how the government owns EVERY DROP of water from wells, rain, surface sources. very interesting info about the professor that developed the desalination process and never made but a few cents off the technology as everyone considered him a nutcase and dismissed his work for years. It will change your outlook and open your eyes.
 

2FORCEFULL

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Nevada doesn't control the level of mead, period, the Federal Gov does via the Bureau of Reclamation.

Vegas had to put a straw in lower because the existing straw was getting very close to the surface, surface water is also warmer so it has more algae, bacteria etc. They put the straw in planning for the fact that the lake could go down further.

Population of the SW has exploded in the last 20 years, more people = more water, mainly because of crops, not necessarily because of homes, water that enters the sewer system is almost fully reclaimed in the Vegas Valley and put back into the system clean. I remember reading some report that said on net Vegas consumes around 1% of the total flow through Mead on an annual basis. If you look at the percentages of water that leave the system on net Agriculture is by far the biggest consumer, and the SW and country as a whole consumes far more agriculture today than it did 20 years ago. All those crops need water, including the ones in mexico that come back across the border to your grocery store.

Powell and Mead were not put in place to remain "full", they act as the primary buffers and storage mechanisms for the entire system. A system that has been able to weather droughts through decades, and they have accomplished that goal so far.

From 2000 to 2020 the Southwest States of CA, NV, AZ, and UT have added 11 million persons to their populations.

From 2000 to 2020 the US as a whole has added 50 million persons.
I've read your post quite a few times......... for some reason I feel it was on target to me.... and for some reason the fact that I said in the year 2000 that "THEY" were gonna drop mead 150' and move vegas wash and lake mead marina to hemming way..I also said that I talked to a guy at the ramp at vegas wash that said " we are gonna dump the lake down 150'" so, my post are full of we and they.... but the fact still remains.... some body, or some people if you will, did exact what the guy said.... pretty easy to check the fact... the water dropped... the marinas moved and the ramps closed... does it really matter who did it?????? is it argument to the fact of who "WE" and "THEY" are???? if so, let me explain.... I don't know for fact who "WE" and "THEY" are... I just know "THEY" did what the guy said.... all easy facts tyo prove by history and results...
 

Desert Whaler

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. . . Man this thread is something else, talk about 'Buzzkill' !!! . . . I have a really funny friend, the guy is absolute COMEDY . . . his name is Al, he always has something very poignant to say at anytime.
I was thinking that if he read this post and all the replies he'd probably say something like, "Hey Guy !!! . . . who was the Fucking Carcass who wrote that post ... the 'Preacher of Doom' or what"?!?!?!
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
 

69hondo

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Temple Bar is max 25ft also. Double check before making the drive.
Is that new or because the water height? WE have been launching there since I have had this boat.
 

Racey

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I've read your post quite a few times......... for some reason I feel it was on target to me.... and for some reason the fact that I said in the year 2000 that "THEY" were gonna drop mead 150' and move vegas wash and lake mead marina to hemming way..I also said that I talked to a guy at the ramp at vegas wash that said " we are gonna dump the lake down 150'" so, my post are full of we and they.... but the fact still remains.... some body, or some people if you will, did exact what the guy said.... pretty easy to check the fact... the water dropped... the marinas moved and the ramps closed... does it really matter who did it?????? is it argument to the fact of who "WE" and "THEY" are???? if so, let me explain.... I don't know for fact who "WE" and "THEY" are... I just know "THEY" did what the guy said.... all easy facts tyo prove by history and results...
Wasn't directed at you, just saying 2000 because that was the last high water mark appx. when the lake was at full pool, and they tested the spill ways and new valves. 20 years ago.

Also clarifying that the state of Nevada or the SNWA has absolutely nothing to do with controlling the water level of Mead, nothing, they have to deal with whatever the water level is as set by the Bureau of Reclamation, and like someone else said bound by a century's old compact between the western states and Mexico on how the water is allocated

It's also important to note that we all live in the middle of a desert, and that river is basically the singular major source of water for the entire area covering several states, when you add 11 million people to the population there are going to be effects to consumption levels, mainly from the agriculture needed to support the additional population. So in a way yes, this is a "Man Made" conundrum.
 

mesquito_creek

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when you add 11 million people to the population there are going to be effects to consumption levels, mainly from the agriculture needed to support the additional population.
USDA estimates a person consumes about 1 ton of food a year. So with a bit of rounding, that is 10 million more tons of food for just the southwest increases in population. Extrapolate that across the USA... You can do the research on how many gallons of water is takes to produce 1 ton of food, but to keep it simple.. its astronomical.
 

Looking Glass

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Yep.

The 1922 Colorado River Compact and its subsequent revisions dictate the rights and responsibilities of the seven states in the river's watershed. The federal government has a treaty with Mexico which dictates how Colorado River water is allocated to that country.

Note the Compact was promulgated thirteen years before Hoover Dam was completed. Without the successful negotiations of the Senators and Representatives of the seven states and President Harding's signature on the legislation, the Colorado River Compact would not have happened and Hoover Dam would not have been built. Once it was agreed upon, further Congressional actions during the administrations of Calvin Coolidge and Herbert Hoover provided the legislation and funding which allowed construction to begin.

Any changes in the amounts of water allocated or the manner in which storage in lakes Powell and Mead are accomplished must be negotiated through the mechanisms of the Compact or the treaty. These federal laws are well understood, and all seven states are bound by the Compact's dictates.

Overweight men in Southern Nevada Water Authority pickups don't have any influence on how the Compact is implemented or how much water is apportioned to the states. Whatever one of them might say to a stranger wearing pajama pants and flip flops at a boat ramp doesn't mean a damn thing.

FACTS = Steve does live in Vegas and does have a an Interest in the Lake Level and has been Posting for several years information I have found interesting, along with Pictures that does prove the Old Saying "Your Eyes Don't Lie"

FACT = You live in Texas, and honestly have to wonder what interest you have in Lake Mead?

FACT = After Visiting Hoover Dam several Weeks ago, ALL THE B.S, Aside I can See What It Is, and all the "Cheap Shot" remarks Ain't going to change the FACT that Lake mead looks Like a Bath Tub with the Plug OUT.
 

Runs2rch

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Is that new or because the water height? WE have been launching there since I have had this boat.
Yes all of the ramps have been affected because of low water level.
 

Racey

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USDA estimates a person consumes about 1 ton of food a year. So with a bit of rounding, that is 10 million more tons of food for just the southwest increases in population. Extrapolate that across the USA... You can do the research on how many gallons of water is takes to produce 1 ton of food, but to keep it simple.. its astronomical.
Exactly, Agri takes about 80% of the consumptive use of water (water that is not being replenished back into the system). You are probably looking at 200k gallons per person, per year, for just their food. For those additional 11 million people that number is massive when you start adding it up, 6.7 million acre feet per year. That is about 50% of the total annual flow of the entire Colorado river. Now obviously not all of those people get 100% of their water from the Colorado, but even if it is 10% that is an absolute huge hit when you compound it year over year and 20 years goes by.
 

rivermobster

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. . . and all the while CA could have been building water reservoirs at a FRACTION of the cost of a useless high speed train that IF ever gets completed, no one will ride.
Yep.

But all the wise ones here want to tear down all the existing dams and return the rivers to their natural states.

And then you have the home owners at Nacimeto whining about not being able to go boating on a reservoir designed solely for AG needs.

The level of stupidity is almost incomprehensible at times.
 

85RiverRAT

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Did you know that water is PUMPED EAST from the Colorado River head waters from the Western Slope of Continental Divide to the Eastern Slopes, and supplies Denver before a single drop runs down stream to western lakes. Alva. B Adams Tunnel, and Grand Lake. 4mil acre feet per year before anything heads down stream. Never mine the southwest fighting over water rights, its being sucked up a bunch by the northern states before anything runs down hill from winter snow melt.
 

rivermobster

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Did you know that water is PUMPED EAST from the Colorado River head waters from the Western Slope of Continental Divide to the Eastern Slopes, and supplies Denver before a single drop runs down stream to western lakes. Alva. B Adams Tunnel, and Grand Lake. 4mil acre feet per year before anything heads down stream. Never mine the southwest fighting over water rights, its being sucked up a bunch by the northern states before anything runs down hill from winter snow melt.
I did not know that. Had to look it up. Kinna interesting!



Cool slideshow on this page...

 

Nordie

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Did you know that water is PUMPED EAST from the Colorado River head waters from the Western Slope of Continental Divide to the Eastern Slopes, and supplies Denver before a single drop runs down stream to western lakes. Alva. B Adams Tunnel, and Grand Lake. 4mil acre feet per year before anything heads down stream. Never mine the southwest fighting over water rights, its being sucked up a bunch by the northern states before anything runs down hill from winter snow melt.
Well that's what I learned today. Guess I'll be doing some reading tomorrow
 

Christopher Lucero

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!
USDA estimates a person consumes about 1 ton of food a year. So with a bit of rounding, that is 10 million more tons of food for just the southwest increases in population. Extrapolate that across the USA... You can do the research on how many gallons of water is takes to produce 1 ton of food, but to keep it simple.. its astronomical.
NOT ONLY THAT...
The average human is around 100 lbs (from zero years to 100 years of age, on average) and are composed of 60% water, or 60bs, or around 10 gallons. so a million people is about 10 million gallons of water (or about 31 acre-feet).
so the population increase in the area served by the basin has increased by around 15 million, accounting for about 150 million gallons or 465 acre feet of water.
we need to reclaim this water as soon as possible. it could make a nice little 10 acre lake somewhere.


 

rivrrts429

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!

NOT ONLY THAT...
The average human is around 100 lbs (from zero years to 100 years of age, on average) and are composed of 60% water, or 60bs, or around 10 gallons. so a million people is about 10 million gallons of water (or about 31 acre-feet).
so the population increase in the area served by the basin has increased by around 15 million, accounting for about 150 million gallons or 465 acre feet of water.
we need to reclaim this water as soon as possible. it could make a nice little 10 acre lake somewhere.

51E32B56-D929-45A5-953B-08BA12885C5B.gif



😂
 

mesquito_creek

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NOT ONLY THAT...
The average human is around 100 lbs (from zero years to 100 years of age, on average) and are composed of 60% water, or 60bs, or around 10 gallons. so a million people is about 10 million gallons of water (or about 31 acre-feet).
so the population increase in the area served by the basin has increased by around 15 million, accounting for about 150 million gallons or 465 acre feet of water.
we need to reclaim this water as soon as possible. it could make a nice little 10 acre lake somewhere.
If each RDP'er has a minimum of 30 beers (huge under estimation) on hand at any given time,... that 2.81 gallons of water per inmate,... so RDP alone is hoarding at least one smallish lake of water in garage fridges ready to be recycled into back yard corners and prop checks into lakes!
 

Christopher Lucero

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If each RDP'er has a minimum of 30 beers (huge under estimation) on hand at any given time,... that 2.81 gallons of water per inmate,... so RDP alone is hoarding at least one smallish lake of water in garage fridges ready to be recycled into back yard corners and prop checks into lakes!
FORTUNATELY THE CONSUMPTION during last weekend was returned/ recycled once nutrients and alcohol had been utilized.
smallish lake, that, too.
 

rrrr

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FACTS = Steve does live in Vegas and does have a an Interest in the Lake Level and has been Posting for several years information I have found interesting, along with Pictures that does prove the Old Saying "Your Eyes Don't Lie"

FACT = You live in Texas, and honestly have to wonder what interest you have in Lake Mead?

FACT = After Visiting Hoover Dam several Weeks ago, ALL THE B.S, Aside I can See What It Is, and all the "Cheap Shot" remarks Ain't going to change the FACT that Lake mead looks Like a Bath Tub with the Plug OUT.
It's obvious the lake levels keep dropping. Why that has happened has nothing to do with the nonsense 2FF posts.

As for my interest in the Colorado River and Lake Mead, anyone that is only knowledgeable about things that happen within 200 miles of their domicile is uninformed and shallow.
 

Mikes56

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I used to work at a lake near Santa Clarita. A school was being built nearby and water was needed to keep the dust down on the dirt road during the construction. So during the last “drought” they were putting something like a million gallons of water each week onto the dirt road. I wouldn’t have really cared about all that, until they told me I couldn’t wash my car or water my lawn.

I drove to the construction site and saw the 3” temporary water line on the ground and a constant flow of water trucks back and forth.

I don’t care what any of the politicians say, they are all liars.
 

Howardflat

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The wastewater that comes from the treatment plants in Vegas gets cleaned and dumped back into lake mead for things called "credits". This allows Vegas to pull more water then they were originally allowed because they are putting water back in. I find it hard to believe for every gallon of water we use a gallon goes back in. I'm sure its a percentage but not 1 to 1. Boulder City is one of the few plants in Nevada that discharge our wastewater into the desert to sink in or evap. There has been some talk about pumping our effluent over the hill to Henderson and run it through their treatment plants so they can get "credits" for our wastewater that will get put back into mead. It would take some big money pumping stations to handle that task.
 

OC Mike

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Discussed this with a local friend and former VIP of the lake.
After 911, the strength of the dam and terrorism was discussed.
As a result, truck traffic had to be diverted. They finally got busy and built the By pass that had been in the works forever.
And, the lake would be lowered never brought back to 'Full Pool' for safety concerns.
When was the last year of 'Full Pool?'
 

Looking Glass

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It's obvious the lake levels keep dropping. Why that has happened has nothing to do with the nonsense 2FF posts.

As for my interest in the Colorado River and Lake Mead, anyone that is only knowledgeable about things that happen within 200 miles of their domicile is uninformed and shallow.


o_O 🤔
 

HALLETT BOY

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Discussed this with a local friend and former VIP of the lake.
After 911, the strength of the dam and terrorism was discussed.
As a result, truck traffic had to be diverted. They finally got busy and built the By pass that had been in the works forever.
And, the lake would be lowered never brought back to 'Full Pool' for safety concerns.
When was the last year of 'Full Pool?'
If they plan on ever bringing the water level back , and I can see why , why don’t they do permanent upgrades to the ramps to make them usable . We do pay fees to use the lake .
 

707dog

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If any of you guys ever want to read a book about this topic....... it’s called Cadillac Desert. It is the history of water rights and dam development in the west. I read it 20 years ago. It was very interesting, BUT it is one of the longest books I ever read. Over 600 pages. But really interesting.

It covers all the dams. The agreement with Az, Nv, and Ca. Water theft. Especially the theft of Lake Owens by Mulhulland, when he purchased land continuous to Los Angeles, then stole the water in the Owens Valley. It covers central Ca and Az’s farmland. Lake Powell is covered and the history of damming the west. Corporate farming. Their are more water laws broken than you can shake a stick at, especially when it comes to corporate farming.

Here is a hilarious part of the book. The final chapter basically says that one day in the future, the United States will be forced to invade Canada, in order to get their water.
just watched the Cadillac desert series on YouTube, water flows where the money grows.
 

FreeBird236

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Discussed this with a local friend and former VIP of the lake.
After 911, the strength of the dam and terrorism was discussed.
As a result, truck traffic had to be diverted. They finally got busy and built the By pass that had been in the works forever.
And, the lake would be lowered never brought back to 'Full Pool' for safety concerns.
When was the last year of 'Full Pool?'
This is probably got a lot of truth to it, but I guarantee they want Mead and Powell no where near these low levels. Basically it's a combo of more demand and a 20+ year drought, but I don't jump on this climate change B.S. it could turn around just as fast as it started. Kind of held it's own the last few of years, but this years snowpak leaves a lot to be desired, finally reaching that proration level.
 

Looking Glass

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This is probably got a lot of truth to it, but I guarantee they want Mead and Powell no where near these low levels. Basically it's a combo of more demand and a 20+ year drought, but I don't jump on this climate change B.S. it could turn around just as fast as it started. Kind of held it's own the last few of years, but this years snowpak leaves a lot to be desired, finally reaching that proration level.

Lake levels come from SNOW, and rarely are filled by Rain and if/when they do you are in a World of hurt. Water comes from Snow Pack and Looking at Lake Mead, it is going to take a Shit Load of Snow to fill this up to Full Pool and that is taking into consideration the Incredible influx of People to the Desert SouthWest. All the theories and B.S. aside if you put "X" in and take "Z" out "X" had better be more, BUT this is Only Using "Street Logic" 🤔
 

OC Mike

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Very True. The question I throw out is, what is the new Full Pool.
I stand on the side there was a forced lowering that was not drought induced, for whatever reason.
Then the droughts hit which exacerbated the issue.
Overton is gone. Callville built a low level ramp, which got buried a few years back, now it's back in operation.
Not sure what's up with Echo's new ramp.
Boulder ramp been discussed.

Not so sure they know how to manage the lake at the Lower level.
There is a minimum level to operate the generators.
I have heard talk of new lower intake towers.

Whatever the reasoning, Lake Mead has changed forever....and it's still AWESOME.....
 
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FreeBird236

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Very True. The question I throw out is, what is the new Full Pool.
I stand on the side there was a forced lowering that was not drought induced, for whatever reason.
Then the droughts hit which exacerbated the issue.
Overton is gone. Callville built a low level ramp, which got buried a few years back, now it's back in operation.
Not sure what's up with Echo's new ramp.
Boulder ramp been discussed.

Not so sure they know how to manage the lake at the Lower level.
There is a minimum level to operate the generators.
I have heard talk of new lower intake towers.

Whatever the reasoning, Lake Mead has changed forever....and it's still AWESOME.....
Basically the drought started a couple years before 9-11, so Lake Mead had already dropped over 20' from Jan to Sept of 2001. It continued another 20' or so the next year and continued for the for the next 3-4 years before rising again around 2005 to 1140' so if this idea is true, maybe around 1140' is the new full pool, not sure if I even believe this, but maybe. As far as power they can produce a little over 2,000 Mega Watts at full pool, they are already down 25% to 1,500 Mega Watts at current levels ( 1072'), 950' is the lowest they say they can produce power, but only 650 Mega Watts.
 

namba860

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How can full pool change if the spillways are are at the same elevation???
 

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So, from when this thread was started.....does anyone know how much the lake has dropped???or is it the same..... like I said , there's only 4' of water to get out on the lake from the ramp....and what about the other ramps,... hemming way was closed when I was out last,... what about calville and temple...are there ramps open....

I've always thought that the people than run mead don't like boaters,.... it wouldn't put it past my thought that they might make mead available to only those with a slip...
 

rivermobster

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How can full pool change if the spillways are are at the same elevation???
I think what he's trying to say is...

They will never let the water level reach the spillways again?

Remember when Parker got flooded cause the miscalculated the snow melt? Im pretty sure they don't want that Ever happening again!

Lesson learned.
 

hallett21

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The river was absolutely ripping above needles yesterday. Clearly they are dumping water out of Mead/Powell


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

2FORCEFULL

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How can full pool change if the spillways are are at the same elevation???
it's kinda like lot levels.... they all are 100' no matter how far up the hill you go....humans control the lake level, if they want it lower, they let water out....the guy told me they wanted the new level to me down 150' from the year 2000's bench mark....the reason the water went over the spill way was the tree huggers science project...
 

2FORCEFULL

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I think what he's trying to say is...

They will never let the water level reach the spillways again?

Remember when Parker got flooded cause the miscalculated the snow melt? Im pretty sure they don't want that Ever happening again!

Lesson learned.
the snow had nothing to do with the water in the spill ways...
 
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