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Let’s talk Pool pumps

Mr. C

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I currently have 20 year old pentair single speed 2 hp. ( might be 3 not home to look) Going variable very soon. I also have a booster pump for the pool sweep. Pool is roughly 32 x 15. I think 23-24 k gallons. Do I need to go up in size with the new pump? Same is fine. If I’m circulating 24 / 7 can I go smaller 1 1/2. Or is that not a good idea. I also see many different models ranging from 8 - 1300.
What do guys have or what recommendations can you give. Staying with pentair more than likely.


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C-2

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And for everybody trying to find threads, this is how you do it on RDP, use a similar type search using Google as the search engine:

Screenshot 2021-03-16 172709.png
 

sintax

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If you have a spa you prob don’t want to skimp on the pump, my bud did and his jets suck now.

You’ll be blown away with the new variable speed pump. They’re so quiet and nice. I upgraded mine a couple years back.
 

Mr. C

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If you have a spa you prob don’t want to skimp on the pump, my bud did and his jets suck now.

You’ll be blown away with the new variable speed pump. They’re so quiet and nice. I upgraded mine a couple years back.

I have a separate pump ( same as the main pump) just for the jacuzzi jets

C-2. Thanks for link to the older thread. Great info.


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havasujeeper

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I also need a new variable speed pump. Maybe get a group discount from MYV?
 

mobldj

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my pump is being replaced tomorrow by my pool guy.f a variable speed pump for 2400.tomorrows rebuilt pump installed is 350.
 

hallett3

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Best upgrade I ever did on my pool was putting in a variable speed pump. It’s quite and You will definitely notice your electric bill will decrease.
 

rrrr

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I have a 2 HP Intelliflow. A 1.5 HP would have sufficed, but the bigger pump has infinite variable speeds and more features while the smaller has about five fixed speeds.
 

Firemanjoe

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We just finished our pool and we went with a Hayward 2.7hp variable speed. Have been happy with it
 

humvkev

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I installed the Pentair Intellifow 3hp pump a few years ago and am happy with it. I have a salt water pool and because of this I need to have the pump on so that chlorine is produced. The variable speed pump is nice because I could run most of the day at a very low speed to save on the electric bill but then still turn it up so that the spa gets good jet action. At the time I received a rebate from the electric company too. With the variable speed pumps, you can set times of the day to run faster for the pool sweeper and other times to run low enough to just filter the pool, this helps with the electric bill.
 

Melloyellovector

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Pentair 011056 vsf pump 3hp
I believe cost on pump is 1300 range with tax. Plus install, plus valves if needed to plumb pump at correct height, etc.
normally sold in the 2000 range by service guys / stores so don’t feel like you got screwed if that’s what you paid. Lol
some can be found online, pentair is doing trade grade equipment warranties meaning if it’s a trade grade product and you buy online warranty is pretty much a tail light warranty.

you don’t need to ever run on max hp. Likely not advised if older pool, smaller then 2.5 plumbing. You’ll just cavitate pump and waste energy with out really increasing flow.
You can program to run most of day 2000 rpm or lower. Ramp up 1 hour or so per day on higher speed to get good skimming action.
the only draw back is with separate booster pump for cleaner If you don’t have remote system. You‘ll be using digital timer on new pump and likely mechanical timer on boost pump. Just have to make sure times match and run boost hour after circ pump on and hour before it turns off. So it never runs dry.
should be same elevation plumbing connection as old if you have whisper flow.
Jandy and hayward pumps are fine too.
normally go with biggest pump and run at lower speeds. For best efficiency and longest life of pump/motor. The 1.5 and 2hp VS pumps from most manufactures are actually uprated. Meaning it’s a medium head pump so a 2hp vs is actually closer max flow rate to what a 1.5 old school whisper flow would be at.
 

rrrr

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The only draw back is with separate booster pump for cleaner If you don’t have remote system. You‘ll be using digital timer on new pump and likely mechanical timer on boost pump. Just have to make sure times match and run boost hour after circ pump on and hour before it turns off. So it never runs dry.

My ¾ HP Polaris PB4-60 booster pump is on a mechanical timer, and it runs independently from the Pentair 2 HP pump. The pump suction is plumbed into the 1½" filter discharge piping with a 1½" X ¾" tee just above where the pipe enters the ground to feed the pool water outlets.

The weight of water in a column creates .433 PSI per foot of height. That height is referred to as static pressure. The pump suction inlet is 8", or .67', above the pool surface water level.

The weight of the water in that section of pipe between the pump inlet and pool water level creates head pressure, .67 X .433, which generates .3 PSI at the pool surface. But because that length of piping is a sealed system between the suction inlet and the pool surface, there is a vacuum on it that prevents it from draining back into the pool, and this equilibrium results in a net pressure at the pump suction inlet of zero.

The main pump, the filter, its inlet and outlets are also above the pool water level. A positive head pressure in this part of the system is thus created, but again, because the filter and its piping are a sealed system above the pool surface, there is a vacuum on it equal to the positive head pressure that prevents it from draining back into the pool. The result is a net zero static water pressure. Since the positive head pressure and vacuum equal each other at any point along the length of the piping above the water level, the net static pressure is zero wherever it might be measured.

The booster pump suction inlet thus sees an inlet static pressure of zero when it starts. After it starts, the pressure obviously goes negative. Because the flow occurs via the least path of resistance, the pump is pulling its continuous suction in a reverse flow through the section of 1½" pipe that is 8" above the pool water level and feeds the water outlets in the pool wall.

The pump can easily provide sufficient suction to maintain the full flow required, and therefore will not run dry as one might assume. When the 2 HP main pump runs, the filter outlet piping pressure goes positive, and the booster pump suction inlet is fed from that direction.

My statement that there is zero pressure at any point in the filter and piping because the head pressure and vacuum are in equilibrium when the pumps are off may seem counterintuitive. However, when the pumps are off, there is no water flow through the filter and piping. When there is no flow in a piping system that has a section open to the atmosphere, in this case the pool itself, there is also no pressure.

My explanation is lengthy, but I hope it's clear enough for the average RDP'er to understand.
 
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STV_Keith

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Are you sure your pool volume is right? How deep is that bad boy? Mine is roughly 16 x 32 and all my calcs say 11,500 gals. My pool is 5-1/2' at the deep end and 3ish at the shallow end.
 

Paradox

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Related question.. We are in escrow on a new home. The pool/spa pump is VFD and there is a digital control box on the top of it. The control box has a port on its side for what I believe (assume) is used to WiFi enable it. Since it currently has to be controlled from the equipment area, I need to have it upgraded so it can be controlled from a phone or iPad.

im further assuming the standard pool service folks are not the right people to do this for us. House is in Havasu. Who might be best positioned to do this work?

Thanks.
 

rrrr

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When I installed a new pump, filter, and multiport valve last year, I used some really cool PVC 2" MPT X S unions. The MPT side has an o-ring for sealing at the base of the threads, and the union face has an elastomeric insert. They don't require force to tighten, and they don't leak.

I can easily remove and reinstall the pump or multiport valve in just a few minutes with the unions, and that allows bearing and seal changes on my workbench rather than being draped over the piping in an awkward position.

IMG_20210317_193608285.jpg
 

rrrr

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Related question.. We are in escrow on a new home. The pool/spa pump is VFD and there is a digital control box on the top of it. The control box has a port on its side for what I believe (assume) is used to WiFi enable it. Since it currently has to be controlled from the equipment area, I need to have it upgraded so it can be controlled from a phone or iPad.

im further assuming the standard pool service folks are not the right people to do this for us. House is in Havasu. Who might be best positioned to do this work?

Thanks.

Determine the make and model of the pump, go to the manufacturer's website, and determine what type of interface it is. Find out what the hardware costs, and how it works.

Don't just call a pool service and depend on them to be honest and helpful. Educate yourself. Too many people don't bother to do due diligence, and that leaves them naked and bent over. Don't be that guy.
 

Paradox

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Determine the make and model of the pump, go to the manufacturer's website, and determine what type of interface it is. Find out what the hardware costs, and how it works.

Don't just call a pool service and depend on them to be honest and helpful. Educate yourself. Too many people don't bother to do due diligence, and that leaves them naked and bent over. Don't be that guy.
Good suggestion. I’ll take a look.
 

Melloyellovector

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Related question.. We are in escrow on a new home. The pool/spa pump is VFD and there is a digital control box on the top of it. The control box has a port on its side for what I believe (assume) is used to WiFi enable it. Since it currently has to be controlled from the equipment area, I need to have it upgraded so it can be controlled from a phone or iPad.

im further assuming the standard pool service folks are not the right people to do this for us. House is in Havasu. Who might be best positioned to do this work?

Thanks.
Port is for communication cord to a remote control system that would then work wirelessly if you went that route.
But there is no easy inexpensive wireless control system.
 

Bobby V

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Pentair 011056 vsf pump 3hp
I believe cost on pump is 1300 range with tax. Plus install, plus valves if needed to plumb pump at correct height, etc.
normally sold in the 2000 range by service guys / stores so don’t feel like you got screwed if that’s what you paid. Lol
some can be found online, pentair is doing trade grade equipment warranties meaning if it’s a trade grade product and you buy online warranty is pretty much a tail light warranty.

you don’t need to ever run on max hp. Likely not advised if older pool, smaller then 2.5 plumbing. You’ll just cavitate pump and waste energy with out really increasing flow.
You can program to run most of day 2000 rpm or lower. Ramp up 1 hour or so per day on higher speed to get good skimming action.
the only draw back is with separate booster pump for cleaner If you don’t have remote system. You‘ll be using digital timer on new pump and likely mechanical timer on boost pump. Just have to make sure times match and run boost hour after circ pump on and hour before it turns off. So it never runs dry.
should be same elevation plumbing connection as old if you have whisper flow.
Jandy and hayward pumps are fine too.
normally go with biggest pump and run at lower speeds. For best efficiency and longest life of pump/motor. The 1.5 and 2hp VS pumps from most manufactures are actually uprated. Meaning it’s a medium head pump so a 2hp vs is actually closer max flow rate to what a 1.5 old school whisper flow would be at.
FYI..Mello. Because of RDP. I gave my boss Dave your info and you are doing his pool in Redlands. He’s been meeting with your guy and picking out the material the last few weeks.👍
 

Melloyellovector

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My ¾ HP Polaris PB4-60 booster pump is on a mechanical timer, and it runs independently from the Pentair 2 HP pump. The pump suction is plumbed into the 1½" filter discharge piping with a 1½" X ¾" tee just above where the pipe enters the ground to feed the pool water outlets.

The weight of water in a column creates .433 PSI per foot of height. That height is referred to as static pressure. The pump suction inlet is 8", or .67', above the pool surface water level.

The weight of the water in that section of pipe between the pump inlet and pool water level creates head pressure, .67 X .433, which generates .3 PSI at the pool surface. But because that length of piping is a sealed system between the suction inlet and the pool surface, there is a vacuum on it that prevents it from draining back into the pool, and this equilibrium results in a net pressure at the pump suction inlet of zero.

The main pump, the filter, its inlet and outlets are also above the pool water level. A positive head pressure in this part of the system is thus created, but again, because the filter and its piping are a sealed system above the pool surface, there is a vacuum on it equal to the positive head pressure that prevents it from draining back into the pool. The result is a net zero static water pressure. Since the positive head pressure and vacuum equal each other at any point along the length of the piping above the water level, the net static pressure is zero wherever it might be measured.

The booster pump suction inlet thus sees an inlet static pressure of zero when it starts. After it starts, the pressure obviously goes negative. Because the flow occurs via the least path of resistance, the pump is pulling its continuous suction in a reverse flow through the section of 1½" pipe that is 8" above the pool water level and feeds the water outlets in the pool wall.

The pump can easily provide sufficient suction to maintain the full flow required, and therefore will not run dry as one might assume. When the 2 HP main pump runs, the filter outlet piping pressure goes positive, and the booster pump suction inlet is fed from that direction.

My statement that there is zero pressure at any point in the filter and piping because the head pressure and vacuum are in equilibrium when the pumps are off may seem counterintuitive. However, when the pumps are off, there is no water flow through the filter and piping. When there is no flow in a piping system that has a section open to the atmosphere, in this case the pool itself, there is also no pressure.

My explanation is lengthy, but I hope it's clear enough for the average RDP'er to understand.

Well you certainly explained it for YOUR pool. Lol
Nearly every boost pump for cleaners in most peoples pools require circ pump to be on while boost is running. 😁
 

Melloyellovector

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FYI..Mello. Because of RDP. I gave my boss Dave your info and you are doing his pool in Redlands. He’s been meeting with your guy and picking out the material the last few weeks.👍
Yes sir, waiting on his permit now. Thank you.
 

rrrr

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Well you certainly explained it for YOUR pool. Lol
Nearly every boost pump for cleaners in most peoples pools require circ pump to be on while boost is running. 😁

I've noticed the suction inlet of most booster pumps are much higher than mine. Sloped yards and water features are common. I think the booster pump suction can't lift more than 14".

To be honest, I ran both pumps together for years, and one day discovered the booster pump would run alone almost by accident.
 

Mr. C

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Ok so it’s 2 1/2 years later and I still haven’t upgraded to a variable.
Im pretty sure I will stay with Pentair since that’s what all my equipment is.
But I’m just recently seeing Black and Decker pumps. Any info on these from the pool experts.
🤷🤷🤷
 

port austin pirate

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no expert, but I installed a 2hp variable black and decker about a year ago and so far works fine, replaced an older haywood single speed, much better
 

havasujeeper

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I'm sure you're aware that with the power savings, the variable speed pump will pay for itself in about 2 years....that is, unless you have solar panels installed.
 

samsah33

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Not an expert, just a poor slob who found out the hard way that CA has its own regulations on pool pumps... I have a Jandy system and had a hell of a time finding a compatible motor to go with my pump. The pump itself was still good and I saved a lot by just replacing the motor only, but the cost of replacing the motor basically doubled since it had to be a CA complaint motor to fit my pump...


 

RichL

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Not an expert, just a poor slob who found out the hard way that CA has its own regulations on pool pumps... I have a Jandy system and had a hell of a time finding a compatible motor to go with my pump. The pump itself was still good and I saved a lot by just replacing the motor only, but the cost of replacing the motor basically doubled since it had to be a CA complaint motor to fit my pump...


Good grief. Is there anything that state government doesn't have its fingers in?
 

Yldboyz

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Not an expert, just a poor slob who found out the hard way that CA has its own regulations on pool pumps... I have a Jandy system and had a hell of a time finding a compatible motor to go with my pump. The pump itself was still good and I saved a lot by just replacing the motor only, but the cost of replacing the motor basically doubled since it had to be a CA complaint motor to fit my pump...



I had a customer come in and everywhere he went they were selling him the CA compliant motor, he insisted that if he change the motor the shaft would change and he have to swap out the pump end as well. Being that this guy was being cheap, I got him the non compliant motor and he was bitching that the pricing was too high....
I told him that I have the motor and if he wants it to come pick it up.

We prefer Pentair, Martin is an inexpensive pump. I'm not familiar with the B&D.
 

nordictom

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Not sure where you are located..................

In Santa Ana, Advantage Manufacturing.

They build their own pumps. But they have the Pentair stuff also. I picked up one of their own brand vari speed pump for $500? 3 hp. Bluetooth operated by an app on my phone.

As a back up, I had them rebuild my single speed Pentair. may a $100??? did it while I waited.

Best to get there as soon as they open.

NT
 

Mr. C

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I'm sure you're aware that with the power savings, the variable speed pump will pay for itself in about 2 years....that is, unless you have solar panels installed
Yes and yes. Just been putting off. And then got laid off 6 months ago so it’s just kind of been on the back burner.
 

JB in so cal

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Not sure where you are located..................

In Santa Ana, Advantage Manufacturing.

They build their own pumps. But they have the Pentair stuff also. I picked up one of their own brand vari speed pump for $500? 3 hp. Bluetooth operated by an app on my phone.

As a back up, I had them rebuild my single speed Pentair. may a $100??? did it while I waited.

Best to get there as soon as they open.

NT
I bought a rebuilt 2 horse with a 1 year warranty for $175
 
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