lets see your Dana

[hallett21]

So now we know vanilla gorilla is the nephew, and probably was involved somehow.. Maybe we can move forward off the semantics.

Negative. Someone has to come out right lol [emoji6]

 

[ChevelleSB406]

Caps lock button.....use it correctly [emoji107]

 

[RiverDave]

I'm trying to decide what to put on my heat. I hear some say that you can go to big and too small of a tab. How did you settle on a 30" tab for you 23'? I'm told if they are too big it will make too big of adjustments to fast? Is there any truth to that? Then I hear others say you can't go too big?

You can slow down the movement of the tabs with restrictors if needed.

Caps lock button.....use it correctly [emoji107]

I think he did use it correctly.. LOL

RD

 

[82daytona]

You can slow down the movement of the tabs with restrictors if needed.




I think he did use it correctly.. LOL

RD

The tabs really aren't as fast as everyone makes them out to be.

 

[Cole Trickle]

The tabs really aren't as fast as everyone makes them out to be.

I agree....my danas are a slow and steady pace.

Nothing fast or sketchy

 

[Riverbound]

I think he did use it correctly.. LOL

RD

Noted.....so his intent was to show everyone how uneducated he was. Thanks for clarifying. [emoji6][emoji106]

 

[tkrrox]

Noted.....so his intent was to show everyone how uneducated he was. Thanks for clarifying. [emoji6][emoji106]

I think his intent to reiterate that he has knowledge of the Dana and in fact is related. Now I would like all three in a room so I can sleep tonight [emoji106]

 

[atomickitn]

I have heard of the 95 mph 525 boat. I personally don't believe the numbers. Something is really weird there for that to run that fast.

Really Dave ???? I built that 23 io with a 525 that ran 103 in Parker then bob Teague got in it and ran it for a review and he drove it 93mph on a radar gun and it was posted in the mag... Look it up

 

[atomickitn]

Also the 23 was changed from the 22 ... The 23 bottom was completely redesigned with a delta pad and added. A lifting strake that smiley did in the glass shop when I first started building for Dana with Tom .. And yeah I built over a hundred boats with Dana thru 3 different owners From 99 to 2008 including the joker boat.. You want to know the history on that thing ask me anything you want

 

[atomickitn]

View attachment 418593
Is this a 23? Not mine, I just stumbled on it.[emoji41]

This was the second boat I built for Dana with Tom

 

[atomickitn]

Here's our Dana, currently for sale at OCM in LHC. Motor has less than 5 hrs run time in the boat. Spent the better part of a week on the dyno.

This was a fun build I spent a lot of time on this

 

[atomickitn]

Here's our 27. It's an older picture, we've since converted to an open bow but this is the only picture I have on my work PC.

View attachment 230575

Nice boat this is not the orig owner but super cool peeps and we cut an open bow into it later after taking ownership of it

 

[82daytona]

Really Dave ???? I built that 23 io with a 525 that ran 103 in Parker then bob Teague got in it and ran it for a review and he drove it 93mph on a radar gun and it was posted in the mag... Look it up

Any pics of the boat?

 

[AzGeo]

Also the 23 was changed from the 22 ... The 23 bottom was completely redesigned with a delta pad and added. A lifting strake that smiley did in the glass shop when I first started building for Dana with Tom .. And yeah I built over a hundred boats with Dana thru 3 different owners From 99 to 2008 including the joker boat.. You want to know the history on that thing ask me anything you want

All the 22's had a delta pad . Smiley just 'straightened out the bottom and sides of the 22', then changed the deck to the new styling and called it a 23 ! The 23' molds were begun in 1997, not 99 . He worked 'off and on' when he had the time and money to move it forward . How many strakes does the 23 have ? (4 total) I'm the one who first put an extra set of strakes on the 'delta pad bottomed 22' and once I got them right, I told Smiley to do it to the molds (22 molds, 1993 way before the 23 was ever thought of) If the guy who "told Smiley to install a delta pad", is actually Ishmael's nephew, he is the one who got the boat, or knows the Nephew that Smiley built a 'pale grey 22 with a 260/alpha' in it, over 20 years ago . That boat had the SAME BOTTOM, only less straight as the 23 is now . The 22' molds were at the shop when you worked there, didn't you ever look at the bottoms in the molds ? It's the same F-ing bottom . If you worked there in 1999, you must have been a part of building a few 22's for me when Smiley and I parted ways . They all had my HIN#'s in them, they were all 22's and they all had 'delta pad bottoms' . Quite a few things happened around there between 1976 and when I moved to Havasu in 2000, and parted ways with Smiley .

 

[Taboma]

George, if you've got a couple of 22's as I thought I read prior, why not just snap a pic or two and post them ? Then case closed :thumbup:

 

[AzGeo]

The profile of the boat on the dolly shows 'Smiley's original 2 strakes', and that is EXACTLY the same as the 22's were, and they all have the same bottom with a pad . I'm the guy who has added "2 more strakes", (6 total) to that design and really improved it's top speeds . The boat in the photos even looks like it has a 'transom notch', (4" insert into the mold) and I started that deal for those hulls I purchased for I/O's. If any of you guys are in contact with Smiley today, ask him . Mr Atomickitn, do you know where the 'stainless steel insert pieces' for the 20' are ? (I made those and built a number of good running 20' V-drives with them) Do you know who has the molds for the 20' ?

 

[Riverbound]

Really Dave ???? I built that 23 io with a 525 that ran 103 in Parker then bob Teague got in it and ran it for a review and he drove it 93mph on a radar gun and it was posted in the mag... Look it up

Dave also doesn't believe that my stoker with a 500 efi ran 100. But then again he comes from the 70mph small block cruiser world. He is the "expert" though

 

[RiverDave]

Really Dave ???? I built that 23 io with a 525 that ran 103 in Parker then bob Teague got in it and ran it for a review and he drove it 93mph on a radar gun and it was posted in the mag... Look it up

Don't be offended that I don't believe the numbers Bobby. I have all kinds of people tell me all kinds of things. I also don't believe word one of any test published in hotboat, performance boats or speed boat magazines. Powerboat was the closest thing to real tests and even they had some influence by ad dollars.

So being as straight forward as I can I don't believe that hull will run 93 with a 525, and I wouldn't even entertain the idea that it is possible that it ran 103 with a 525.

 

[aka619er]

Don't be offended that I don't believe the numbers Bobby. I have all kinds of people tell me all kinds of things. I also don't believe word one of any test published in hotboat, performance boats or speed boat magazines. Powerboat was the closest thing to real tests and even they had some influence by ad dollars.

So being as straight forward as I can I don't believe that hull will run 93 with a 525, and I wouldn't even entertain the idea that it is possible that it ran 103 with a 525.

I love a good call out thread.

 

[RiverDave]

I love a good call out thread.

Not a call out at all. I'm just saying the GPS speedo mighta caught a glitch or something. 103 with a 525 would pretty much put it in one of the fastest boats ever category.. LOL

RD

 

[AzGeo]

George, if you've got a couple of 22's as I thought I read prior, why not just snap a pic or two and post them ? Then case closed :thumbup:

You are correct SIR . Crawling around under this boat I remember how I arrived at 'adding 2 more strakes' . But first, let's look at these photos and the photos of Erik's boat . Notice the distance from the keel to the 'first set of strakes', and the distance between the 'first set of strakes' (keel hanging below where the hull lifts) , also notice the placement of all 4 strakes at the bow (entry) of this 22' hull . This POS trailer makes it hard to see, but from the rear there is a 'pad bottom' about 7' or 8'+ long X 12" wide going forward to a point, and on this hull it ends up at a 'notch' insert for an I/O drive, before the transom . Two full flat strakes per side, very high up above the keel line, all the way to the transom . As I remember it, Smiley used a broken Eliminator 20' jet boat, and extended it for the 'keel and entry' of his new 22' . He DID NOT SPLASH, but it is always quicker and costs less money to start with a 'solid shape' to begin styling a new plug . One shot shows the 'old style 22' deck, and yet the entire bottom is just like Erik's 23', except not as straight . Between how the gel coat turned out, and how 'mis-shaped' this hull came out of the molds, it will be the basis for a new 'plug' of my own . I had planned to build it and sell it $$$, but it's not the kind of quality I am known for, these molds are just worn out . Back in the 1980's I put some 'extra strakes' on a couple of Eliminator 20's with V-drives, because they had a problem above 65/70 MPH . With the shaft angle 'pushing the bow up' and the strakes so high above the keel line, they would often "roll to one side", and scare the shit out of the drivers . Eliminator did build some with 'delta pads' and that just moved the problem up into the 90 MPH range . Around 1992 I had a customer with a 22, (I built it) 454/385HP, Bravo 1.50 . It ran 63/64 MPH @ 4600/4700 RPMs with a 25 pitch . After adding the 'strakes', it ran 71/72 MPH @ 4900 RPMs with a 26 pitch, and I feel good about the improvement . NOTE; the trailer bunks are actually sitting on the flat pad at the rear . In photo #4 you can clearly see that the pad is flat half way across the bunk carpeting, and it's the same on the other side . WHO builds a 'custom trailer' for an inboard that has no bunks under the stringers ???

 

[RiverDave]

Well George you seem to have built some of these things.. How fast do you think they would be with a 525?

RD

 

[AzGeo]

You know, someone here said he went 'over 100' and that's GOOD for me . I just know that the keel going back to the pad (what I call THE BELLY below the first strakes) under these hulls make them 'smooth riding' and 'wet riding' . Smiley always wanted a smooth ride and good control, straight line top speeds was lower on the list of priorities . No doubt any driver could "keep trimming up" until he felt that it was 'loose enough', but this hull would just have it's transom 'plowing thru the water', and wasting thrust to do so . Why not just "add a couple of strakes to lift where needed" ? I do not enjoy "lighting things up", (unless it's with 2FF HA HA) but I felt that Smiley's efforts were being compromised by the "I told him to do it this way, just like a Cole", kind of attitude in the post . Many years before the 23', Smiley actually put a big delta pad in a 20' for his friend who would 'ski race' it . The same friend who was a Chrysler engineer and who designed the deck for the 27's . (bottom was a Magnum) Smiley was/is not new to delta pads . The 22 we added strakes onto had stock power, other customers with 22's added a '6-71 to a 454, B1, (maybe 600HP) I built a 526 with a 1050, B1 (turned high RPMs and blew up drives), and one .060" over 396 V-drive . NONE of them ever 'felt loose', (ever) and with 600 HP or more and a Nordskog speedo, I never saw a solid 100 MPH . SO, let's talk about the 20' boat Smiley was building ........

 

[RiverDave]

The bottom of the 27 was a magnum? What was raysoncraft's deal with that mold? They built them for a little while but I think there were some subtle deck changed when t went back to dana? Clear recesses or something?

On the 23.. That was a wussy answer for a guy that is always both barrels.. Lol

 

[AzGeo]

Dave Stockton wanted a 'bigger offshore boat', and Smiley didn't want to fight with them . Smiley was sick of 'fighting' with the 25' 'Pro Am' molds, and wanted nothing larger than the 22/23 . There was a guy named George, who was a DANA salesman, nice guy . He had a 'line' on a Magnum back east, for a steal . He and Dave got the boat out to Smiley and the 'fun' began . Stockton's office manger was married to a guy that was ski racing a 20 I/O and his job was at the local Chrysler design lab . He designed the deck, and compromised about the cockpit dimensions, because: "Smiley wanted draft/angle changes, Salesman George wanted more room, Dave wanted to spend no money", you all know how it turned out . One of Stockton's buddy's (Dan I think) made Plexiglas windows and stuff, was getting a divorce . Nice guy DAN (who needed to see a dentist badly) took his half of his house sale money, from his divorce and paid for the molds and the first part out of them . DAN OWNED THE 27' MOLDS, not DANA . When I was at Smiley's glass shop one day, I 'offered', " why don't you make the strakes wider, make a step in them about 9' from the transom, just to say it's a step bottom" . The next time I was there, Smiley sent me over to another glass shop, the owner's name was Dave . This Dave showed me what he was doing and I was shocked to see the cockpit and the motor compartment spaces . They did make the strakes wider, they didn't do any step, the deck looked very modern, smooth and clean, the way a new design should look . From the beginning, the cockpit space, the fore deck bracing and the total lack of motor space plagued a beautiful boat . How anyone could 'remove the NASA DUCTS from the deck', without addressing all the other questions was beyond me . I never sold one, built one, wanted to work on one, once I measured the motor box . I met the guy who controlled the 'New Raysoncraft', one time . We were never friends, we did no business together . As far as a 'wussy answer' on the 23, I stated what I know and showed pix to prove my comments . It is not for me to say 'how fast your boat is or should be', it's my place to offer "facts that I know because I got paid to make them happen", and it's up to all of you to analyze my comments, accept or reject .

 

[RiverDave]

Pour some humor into that glass their George.. The wussy comment was a joke. (as was this post). I appreciate the old knowledge of some of this stuff, and enjoy reading it, even if some of it does come off about like 80 grit when someone else offers a different perspective on the history.

RD

 

[Taboma]

The bottom of the 27 was a magnum? What was raysoncraft's deal with that mold? They built them for a little while but I think there were some subtle deck changed when t went back to dana? Clear recesses or something?

On the 23.. That was a wussy answer for a guy that is always both barrels.. Lol

Come on now Dave, don't go getting George all fired up here

He's been pretty damned mellow for awhile now, certainly no wussy, but more approachable and has displayed a real willingness to share his hands on experience and knowledge.

Thanks for the pics George, made your point much easier to follow. :thumbup:

I know that should I get in the mood to blow more money on the Nighthawk I'll be asking George for input ---- or you Dave, since it seems you know a guy or two with a hot Cole.

For one I really enjoy discussions like this, in addition Eric and I have PM'd back and forth a few times about his Dana build, so I'm diggin following this project and anxious to learn how it performs.

 

[AzGeo]

Pour some humor into that glass their George.. The wussy comment was a joke. (as was this post). I appreciate the old knowledge of some of this stuff, and enjoy reading it, even if some of it does come off about like 80 grit when someone else offers a different perspective on the history.

RD

right after we get the facts straight . Please read back in this thread, he said the 22' and the 23' bottoms were NOT the same, only the 23 has a pad, and that is NOT FACT/WRONG INFORMATION . This is not "my opinion about the boat", my opinion would be offering an estimated top speed for a boat I've never seen . I threw in the comment about 2FF for a little levity, because between you and he I seem to be "posting while black" around here . (here comes more 80 grit) Are you telling me that I should just 'agree more with everyone, and to hell with any facts' ? I'm old enough to know that the political areas will always draw blood, without quarter, but I come here to see/read what TBI is going to post next . (MF artist) Then secondarily I look at technical pieces, which I hope are based in fact and not conjecture/sales pitch . You see I'm not here to sell used boats, custom motors, custom one off V-drive rigging, real estate, hot rods, or modern furniture, yet I'm in all these things every day, the last thing I offered for sale here was a house in California, two years ago . I come here to exchange information, give and take, up for honest debate, free and clear .

 

[atomickitn]

Not a call out at all. I'm just saying the GPS speedo mighta caught a glitch or something. 103 with a 525 would pretty much put it in one of the fastest boats ever category.. LOL

RD

it was not a GPS speedo.... it was a radar Gun... and since you were not present at the time of the test drives (4) then I guess this is just your opinion and not actual fact that you personally witnessed

 

[RiverDave]

it was not a GPS speedo.... it was a radar Gun... and since you were not present at the time of the test drives (4) then I guess this is just your opinion and not actual fact that you personally witnessed

I'm sorry Bobby I know you have some pride of workmanship here.. But 103 is not even in the realm and 93 sounds a little unrealistic too.. With a 525 anyways. Just seems very fast for a family bow rider style boat?

 

[NicPaus]

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=327669 A Dana 23 just popped up for sale on Glamis Dunes.




George the boats you built were they also "Dana's" or did you have your own name. Some great history info you posted.

 

[82daytona]

heres a picture of mine

 

[Cole Trickle]

View attachment 419538 heres a picture of mine

I think you got the special bottom...boat should run at least 130mph with that Teague blower motor!!![emoji41][emoji3]

 

[Cole Trickle]

I'm sorry Bobby I know you have some pride of workmanship here.. But 103 is not even in the realm and 93 sounds a little unrealistic too.. With a 525 anyways. Just seems very fast for a family bow rider style boat?

Is it possible they over shot the Dana and caught a small block Schiada making a 3/4 throttle beer run?

Perhaps a semi running on the 95 or a seagull in a full dive?

[emoji41][emoji12][emoji14][emoji631][emoji106]

 

[Outdrive1]

Really Dave ???? I built that 23 io with a 525 that ran 103 in Parker then bob Teague got in it and ran it for a review and he drove it 93mph on a radar gun and it was posted in the mag... Look it up

That's almost as fast as the Cheetah deck boat. Holy shit.

 

[Cole Trickle]

That's almost as fast as the Cheetah deck boat with the Bimini up. Holy shit.

Fixed it[emoji41]

 

[Outdrive1]

What prop and drive gear ratio?

 

[djunkie]

Any chance I can borrow that radar gun? [emoji16]

 

[Outdrive1]

Standard lower or sport master? Low water pickup, off shore pickup? This is intriguing. I'd like to know about the setup. 103 has to be the fastest 525 ever.

 

[AzGeo]

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=327669 A Dana 23 just popped up for sale on Glamis Dunes.




George the boats you built were they also "Dana's" or did you have your own name. Some great history info you posted.

Look in NADA, Finish Line Boats by Finish Line Engineering "FNI" Stopped doing 'homebuilts',(1967/1982) took the tests, filled out all the paperwork, and got my 'builder's code' in 1982 . Some of the boats I built were out of Smiley's molds, some out of my own .

 

[AzGeo]

I'm sorry Bobby I know you have some pride of workmanship here.. But 103 is not even in the realm and 93 sounds a little unrealistic too.. With a 525 anyways. Just seems very fast for a family bow rider style boat?

What are the RPMs, the drive gear ratio, and the prop pitch ? I can get you a close number to work with ...... For example: 5300 RPMs (on the stock limiter), with a 1.50 gear, = 3533.33 prop shaft RPMs . 3533.33 X 30 pitch prop divided by 12" (30" divided by one foot) = 8833.3325 X 60 (minutes to hours) = 529999.95 (feet per hour) 529999.95 divided by one mile 5280 = 100.37877 MPH, prop speed . 10% slip/drag = 100.37877 X .9 = 90.340893 MPH boat speed with only 10% slip . Simple !

 

[JBS]

Standard lower or sport master? Low water pickup, off shore pickup? This is intriguing. I'd like to know about the setup. 103 has to be the fastest 525 ever.

Don't forget the 525 is under rated :cool

 

[AzGeo]

Any 'crescent shaped lower nose' will mess with the control of a 22/23 Dana, specifically it would 'lift too much' at speed, and slow the boat down .

 

[82daytona]

Tails and tips are done

 

[Taboma]

Hey, where's your mufflers ?

Damn, that looks awesome Eric !! :thumbup:

When is it going to get wet ?

 

[82daytona]

Hey, where's your mufflers ?

Damn, that looks awesome Eric !! :thumbup:

When is it going to get wet ?

Thank you. Not sure yet. I'll have it back this week and get it scheduled with arko and Ron's ASAP

 

[82daytona]

a few pics from Arko today. Should be done soon.

 

[82daytona]

Should be done this coming week.

 

[707dog]

damn bro you took it to the next level, looking sick:thumbup: be safe out the running that boat up on the #'s

 

[IinsureU]

Here was mine, first boat I bought and enjoyed the boat immensely. Not sure who owns her at present, but hopefully they are enjoying as much as we did.