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Loyalty - employers / employees . What do employees owe - if anything?

Uncle Dave

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All I can do is hope for the best. I haven't drank in over a year but a very hard lesson to learn
DUI has moved from a traffic citation with a civil penalty to an entire " industry" all filled with guys picking you pockets.

(much like the divorce industry)

Got a buddy in chicago on his second one - because the one from 20 years ago when he was a kid actually didn't get expunged as the del he had with the court & documented.

The city/state retroactively un -expunged every DUI back to the beginning of record keeping time so it become s cumulative offense. Even 20 years apart.



UD
 

Riverbound

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IMO taking work from either my union or employer would b unloyal. But my tiny side jobs aren't even on the radar so I'm not sure how that goes
I'm of the belief that side work is no different than theft. And have fired numerous employees for it. Regardless of how small the amount is side work is undercutting legitimate business
 

BHC Vic

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I'm of the belief that side work is no different than theft. And have fired numerous employees for it. Regardless of how small the amount is side work is undercutting legitimate business
I'm not sure I see how it's theft?
 

DC-88

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I'm of the belief that side work is no different than theft. And have fired numerous employees for it. Regardless of how small the amount is side work is undercutting legitimate business
Yeah, and in the HVAC biz a "side job" will likely include your work truck (mileage, fuel, tires, ins.), your freon, solder, tools, screws, sheet metal etc etc. so I get your point in your case. I've trained and treated employees in my sector of const. well but at the end of the day the reality is almost all "side jobs " have at the root a cheap ass or schiester client who would be a waste of time for any legit contractor who is in demand---
 

hallett21

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I'm of the belief that side work is no different than theft. And have fired numerous employees for it. Regardless of how small the amount is side work is undercutting legitimate business
Are you referring to someone portraying them self as a contractor? I can understand the theft part if you are doing side work that directly competes with your primary employer. But I don't see a problem with me throwing in a ceiling fan or a couple of plugs for family or friends when my employer strictly does commercial and industrial electrical work.

I know you're in HVAC and I believe residential and commercial so there's really no room for your employees to do side work without competing with you.

Just curious on your thoughts
 

DC-88

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Are you referring to someone portraying them self as a contractor? I can understand the theft part if you are doing side work that directly competes with your primary employer. But I don't see a problem with me throwing in a ceiling fan or a couple of plugs for family or friends when my employer strictly does commercial and industrial electrical work.

I know you're in HVAC and I believe residential and commercial so there's really no room for your employees to do side work without competing with you.

Just curious on your thoughts
Helping family/friends for pay or free, utilizing your skills and trade is way cool and helps you expand horizons for the future IMO:thumbup:. Way different than giving your # to the client on some small job your boss really didn't want to take anyway but did to keep his guys busy...
 

Ziggy

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Are you referring to someone portraying them self as a contractor? I can understand the theft part if you are doing side work that directly competes with your primary employer. But I don't see a problem with me throwing in a ceiling fan or a couple of plugs for family or friends when my employer strictly does commercial and industrial electrical work.

I know you're in HVAC and I believe residential and commercial so there's really no room for your employees to do side work without competing with you.

Just curious on your thoughts
An employee moonlighting is taking possible business from the legit business, competing without proper credentials in otherwords. 90% of the time they moonlight they also take(as in five finger louie) parts and supplies that belong to the company to do their "sidejob".
All that is theft.
.
Doing a favor for a buddy is something else all together. You'd kinda be a dick if you didn't help 'em:p:D
 

hallett21

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Helping family/friends for pay or free, utilizing your skills and trade is way cool and helps you expand horizons for the future IMO:thumbup:. Way different than giving your # to the client on some small job your boss really didn't want to take anyway but did to keep his guys busy...
Oh god no lol. That's just f'd. My definition of side work is obviously much different. I just do it through referrals from family and friends (or friends of friends) and plan to
build trust in people now so when I go out on my own I'll have references or repeat clients when I'm ready to take on a big job. (Me being licensed and a full blown company etc)


Should also add that I always use my own tools and never use company equipment if I'm not on their clock or their jobsite
 

hallett21

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An employee moonlighting is taking possible business from the legit business, competing without proper credentials in otherwords. 90% of the time they moonlight they also take(as in five finger louie) parts and supplies that belong to the company to do their "sidejob".
All that is theft.
.
Doing a favor for a buddy is something else all together. You'd kinda be a dick if you didn't help 'em:p:D
Well I charge some of them lol. But I (they in the end) buy all the material and I don't take anything from other jobs. I know and see guys do it and to me those guys are stealing. Unless the owner himself gives you material and his blessing it's shady at best. My dad's a GC and I was always raised to never steal tools or material.
 

Bobby V

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Started with the company I work for as a apprentice in 82'. Became a foreman with a company truck in 86'. In 94' when work was slow my boss said they had to take my truck due to a bad driving record. At that time only the guys with trucks were getting the majority of the work. I asked if I could talk with the President. Scared to death I asked him if they could get extra insurance for me and I would pay the difference. He said he did that before and said he would never do it again. But he said he would and he better not regret it latter. Well I never forgot it and 20 years later I'm still here. Who knows what would have happened if he would have said no. :thumbup:
 

Riverbound

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I'm sure you have a city business license in every city you work in to. :)
If that was directed towards me, yes we do. In all cities that require them. We also pull and close permits on every job we do.

Even when I do friend/ family jobs it's ran through the company.
 

Riverbound

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I should have never started that thread. My bad Riverbound! :D
Doesn't bother me one bit.

My guys don't do side work for profit. And when they do help out family or friends they run it through the company even if its a zero charge invoice. There's a difference between "helping" out people and doing it for profit and screwing your employer over.
 

BHC Vic

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I buy all of my own tools and if I need material I'll ask and it's gladly given to me usually. I highly highly doubt my union or company feels what i do is stealing. The jobs my company gets are million dollar jobs I've obviously never landed one of those . And most side work i do ranges it's not just drywall and framing. I'll do duct work, tbar wood framing, flooring all stuff my union or company doesn't do
 

Riverbound

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Are you referring to someone portraying them self as a contractor? I can understand the theft part if you are doing side work that directly competes with your primary employer. But I don't see a problem with me throwing in a ceiling fan or a couple of plugs for family or friends when my employer strictly does commercial and industrial electrical work.

I know you're in HVAC and I believe residential and commercial so there's really no room for your employees to do side work without competing with you.

Just curious on your thoughts
If you're helping out family and friends I can't see it done for profit so it really doesn't match what I consider side work. Now if you are doing it and charging them it does come into a gray area. As you are illegally portraying yourself as a contractor and charging for work unlicensed, uninsured, etc.

When my employees help out family/friends I have no issue with it. They are open about it and I will at minimum see a no charge invoice for the parts they used generally we tell them just to cover the cost on the invoice and we are good. Our employees take their trucks home so it's very easy/tempting to help out friends/family. On the flipside every single part on their truck is inventoried so if they were stealing we would know.
 

Riverbound

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I buy all of my own tools and if I need material I'll ask and it's gladly given to me usually. I highly highly doubt my union or company feels what i do is stealing. The jobs my company gets are million dollar jobs I've obviously never landed one of those . And most side work i do ranges it's not just drywall and framing. I'll do duct work, tbar wood framing, flooring all stuff my union or company doesn't do
So you maintain a license for the contracting you do on the "side"?
 

BHC Vic

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So you maintain a license for the contracting you do on the "side"?
It is in the works however me getting a drywall and framing license maybe against union rules. That maybe a problem so I'd have to ask. Jobs I've done on my own are for friends and family and the last one I did for free. When I work forum non union contractor buddy it's all under his license. I've had customers ask me several times if i could do either more for them or if they can recommend me. The owner is never there so hey feel more comfortable asking me. I've still never taken his work though and always give out his card. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1420900813.142659.jpg 4 or 5 neighbors approached and asked if I could do this for them. I could have cut Phil out and made a killing but instead I gave his card he made great money and I made chump change to do all the work.
 

milkmoney

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Wow. Where do I start. Lol

You guys make me not want to work another day in my life.

A employer might think your a great guy for working for 29 years for them or not doing side work cause its stealing or jus bei g a good employee. Down to the fact that they will turn you loose in a minute if they need to , in order to protect themselves.

I was jus offers a job back in the milk business and after reading this thread , I think I might jus stay out if the work force. :)
 

Riverbound

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It is in the works however me getting a drywall and framing license maybe against union rules. That maybe a problem so I'd have to ask. Jobs I've done on my own are for friends and family and the last one I did for free. When I work forum non union contractor buddy it's all under his license. I've had customers ask me several times if i could do either more for them or if they can recommend me. The owner is never there so hey feel more comfortable asking me. I've still never taken his work though and always give out his card. View attachment 384925 4 or 5 neighbors approached and asked if I could do this for them. I could have cut Phil out and made a killing but instead I gave his card he made great money and I made chump change to do all the work.
So you do NOT have a license.

when you work for your non Union buddy is it as an sub contractor or employee?

You made chump change? Or you made what was fair considering your investment into your trade? You have no license, no insurance, no overhead, no training, mo employees, most likely not paying taxes , etc etc etc.
 

BHC Vic

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I've done both work as a sub for him and done work he pays hourly and 1099's me for. All my tools my truck my trailer my buddies (employs) training??? I prefer to go in and bid what I want and make what I want 25 bucks an hour is shitty and a waste of my time even if it is all just extra money for me
 

BHC Vic

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He wants me to get my license and has no problem subbing out all drywall and framing to me. The fact that I'm handy and can do so much more really just helps him out that much more he's told me several times he no longer wants to work just wants to bid jobs and run them
 

Riverbound

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I've done both work as a sub for him and done work he pays hourly and 1099's me for. All my tools my truck my trailer my buddies (employs) training??? I prefer to go in and bid what I want and make what I want 25 bucks an hour is shitty and a waste of my time even if it is all just extra money for me
How did you sub contract legitimately if you don't have a license?
 

BHC Vic

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How did you sub contract legitimately if you don't have a license?
I have several friends that will let me use theirs and they get some tax cut??? Aside from that who said anything about being legit I thought we were talkig about me stealing from my union or company
 

BHC Vic

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Well I've used my old neighbors before and when I asked why he didn't care his answer was something about taxes. My buddy also uses his dad's and same thing something about taxes. I have no idea I'm more a worked than paper work guy
 

was thatguy

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I have several friends that will let me use theirs and they get some tax cut??? Aside from that who said anything about being legit I thought we were talkig about me stealing from my union or company
You're missing out, V.

When you hand out their cards just scratch their names and numbers out and pencil yours in!!

Let's take this bitch top tier!!!
 

Riverbound

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Well I've used my old neighbors before and when I asked why he didn't care his answer was something about taxes. My buddy also uses his dad's and same thing something about taxes. I have no idea I'm more a worked than paper work guy
You should probably read up on contract law you can't just "use" someone's license. And there is no benefit tax wise as s license holder for lending it out. In order to operate under a license its a little more involved than just lending it out ;).
 

BHC Vic

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You should probably read up on contract law you can't just "use" someone's license. And there is no benefit tax wise as s license holder for lending it out. In order to operate under a license its a little more involved than just lending it out ;).
Well it's worked out for me in the past building a few patios. I will continue to work my union job and if I have an opportunity to make more money on the side I will. You guys can call it what u want I'll call it hustling and providing for my family the best that I can. No one will ever tell me I can't make life for my family better.
 

BHC Vic

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Maybe I need to start doing more duct work ImageUploadedByTapatalk1420902373.560115.jpg clearly my first time lol
 

BHC Vic

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That was also my first tbar ceiling and first time taping a whole job
 

BHC Vic

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Lol I was gonna say. You call that work.

Until I read the bottom of your post. You didn't charge for that did you. :)
I got paid hourly on that one. What the contractor charged was pretty outrageous gotta love those non union guys
 

milkmoney

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I got paid hourly on that one. What the contractor charged was pretty outrageous gotta love those non union guys
That's sad. :). U should demand more hourly wage. Non union right. :)
 

BHC Vic

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I hate it when that happens...:grumble:
That's y in work union. You're either worth the pay or you're not. U can't tell an employer you'll do the job for half the pay just to stay busy. If u aren't work the 60an hour you're gonna sit at home
 

BHC Vic

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Based on the kinks and incorrect hanger spacing I wouldn't have argued it was your first. I'm sure there is proper air distribution as well. ;)
Lol boss told me were to bolt the straps. Showed up w flex duct some weird(wrong) ts and 90's tape and zip ties. I asked where the pookie was so I could seal everything and he said what's that
 

BHC Vic

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He has his license but wings shit even more than me
 

Riverbound

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I should demand more but sadly there are guys that will do it for much less
Yes because they want to work. Love how my Union friends suck the union dick and tell me how great it is and how much money they make and non Union wages are a joke, etc etc

Yet they are the ones constantly get laid off and looking for work. Or having to do side work to make ends meet. All the while claiming they are worth so much hourly, yet at the end of the day they are just a laborer. Lol.
 

Riverbound

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Lol boss told me were to bolt the straps. Showed up w flex duct some weird(wrong) ts and 90's tape and zip ties. I asked where the pookie was so I could seal everything and he said what's that
And yet you still did the job. Incorrectly ;)

He has his license but wings shit even more than me
Most do things half assed. A huge part of my business is fixing the half ass work Other "contractors" do when they think it's just ducting. ;)
 
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