LS Fanboys, please stop making me hate LS engines

[Sharp Shooter]

This dude is right on the money!

 

[RaceTec]

Yes LS engines are awesome and you can build insane shit now... There are so many much more advanced combinations that make INSANE power! I build pistons for 1.6L Duratec engines for a customer that make well over 1200 to 1600hp! LS swap the world has jumped the shark. Build a nail head and make some power and be interesting, shit we do a ton of FE stuff that makes power, even AMC... Anyone can watch Youtube and build a junkyard LS, build something cool! Like the guy that I just built pistons for with his aluminum 215 Buick V8... (Sorry rant over, please continue to buy the thousands of LS pistons we love making for you!)

 

[Willie B]

…The dude is right on about Oklahoma University…having spent 06 and 07 at my girlfriends horse ranch in Oklahoma I saw it and lived it…At that point in time I had never even heard of an LS motor… I was into Dodge Rams and Cummins diesel’s…
… I will admit to having an LS motor in my Sanger Runner…Yes an LS 7 from 1974 …but it is a 454 big block crate motor …crate motor only…they were never put in a car for sale …and they made pretty big power for their day…

 

[4Waters]

No replacement for cubic inch displacement. Physics still applies despite the whole "LS" thing

 

[Racey]

I must be out of the loop, i assume there are a bunch of people that think LS is the most superior engine ever made?

It's a great engine, it has filled a nice niche. It's not the ideal engine for EVERYTHING though.

 

[rivermobster]

I must be out of the loop, i assume there are a bunch of people that think LS is the most superior engine ever made?

It's a great engine, it has filled a nice niche. It's not the ideal engine for EVERYTHING though.

You have assumed correctly.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

How about the LS of the Far East? The Honda K series

I would like to do a K series swap if I end up building another car down the road.

 

[rivermobster]

Yes LS engines are awesome and you can build insane shit now... There are so many much more advanced combinations that make INSANE power! I build pistons for 1.6L Duratec engines for a customer that make well over 1200 to 1600hp! LS swap the world has jumped the shark. Build a nail head and make some power and be interesting, shit we do a ton of FE stuff that makes power, even AMC... Anyone can watch Youtube and build a junkyard LS, build something cool! Like the guy that I just built pistons for with his aluminum 215 Buick V8... (Sorry rant over, please continue to buy the thousands of LS pistons we love making for you!)

I just wanted to quote this. (prolly gonna get my ass beat now)

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I must be out of the loop, i assume there are a bunch of people that think LS is the most superior engine ever made?

It's a great engine, it has filled a nice niche. It's not the ideal engine for EVERYTHING though.

Agreed. It is certainly the cheap and easy button to make some good power in a lot of stuff though.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I just wanted to quote this. (prolly gonna get my ass beat now)

Well you think a Ford 2 valve Mod motor is advanced

 

[sintax]

How about the LS of the Far East? The Honda K series

the K-series is damn impressive, all things considered, FI or NA

I must be out of the loop, i assume there are a bunch of people that think LS is the most superior engine ever made?

It's a great engine, it has filled a nice niche. It's not the ideal engine for EVERYTHING though.

it does have a following thats for sure. I think its really a two part thing,

1) GM slapped LS based shit into EVERYTHING, therefore super available. This also allowed for builders to obtain different combos in parts which has really made for some interesting block / head / cam packages ONLY using factory "junkyard" parts.

2) they're damn solid, and handle the business.

 

[rivermobster]

Well you think a Ford 2 valve Mod motor is advanced

What I really think is...

Chebys are dirt cheap entertainment. They always have been, and always will be. This is why they are so popular in swaps and shit. There is zero special about em other than cost. It's a dinosaur push rod engine that most folks get a huge boner about.

The imports have real HP figured out, and have for MANY years now. Let's see someone drop a dual turbo'd W12 engine into a boat. You'd probably need an Arneson Drive to deal with all that torque. Now that would be way cool and bad azz...

 

[rivergames]

I'm pulling the LS 6.0 out of the 2002 2500 parts truck tonight and getting her ready to drop in my 1990 K5 Blazer!

 

[rivermobster]

I'm pulling the LS 6.0 out of the 2002 2500 parts truck tonight and getting her ready to drop in my 1990 K5 Blazer!

Perfect swap. The best part about the LS is they normally don't leak!

You gonna retain the stock powertrain from the engine back??

 

[Willie B]

View attachment 1021145

…Makes me kind of wonder what would’ve happened if I would’ve put nitrous on my 72 Mercedes 280 SE 3.5 V8 with Bosch electronic fuel injection…The car was pretty zippy in stock form…
…The injection system had a pretty sophisticated looking computer …but the car would run fine with the computer not even in the car???.,.Dunno???…

… correction it was a 4.5 not a 3.5… I am old and senile…

 

[4Waters]

…Makes me kind of wonder what would’ve happened if I would’ve put nitrous on my 72 Mercedes 280 SE 3.5 V8 with Bosch electronic fuel injection…The car was pretty zippy in stock form…
…The injection system had a pretty sophisticated looking computer …but the car would run fine with the computer not even in the car???.,.Dunno???…

WTF!!

 

[Willie B]

WTF!!

…Every time one of these cars with a 4.5 in it would show up in the junkyard I would snag the computer for 10 or $15 …had a bunch of them… only one of them ever made a difference when I turned the plastic knob on the side… Little bit of idle difference???…but later on guys we’re paying me 100 bucks apiece for these computers???… apparently they didn’t give a shit about what they did or didnt do???…

 

[Racey]

What I really think is...

Chebys are dirt cheap entertainment. They always have been, and always will be. This is why they are so popular in swaps and shit. There is zero special about em other than cost. It's a dinosaur push rod engine that most folks get a huge boner about.

The imports have real HP figured out, and have for MANY years now. Let's see someone drop a dual turbo'd W12 engine into a boat. You'd probably need an Arneson Drive to deal with all that torque. Now that would be way cool and bad azz...

The imports have HP figure out, not torque. But you don't need the torque in a car the way you need the HP

Making over 1,000 ft lbs at 4,000 aint happening in these smaller displacement or high cylinder number engines. You need long stroke for the mechanical advantage. That's why diesels do so well in the TQ dept.

Not much competes with a big block chebby in the marine torque dept. And the big block chevy Became defacto not because they were superior but because they were very open with the aftermarket world in development going all the way back to the 60's, that openness allowed them to become the superior package from the countless development done on them by the aftermarket.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

I own an LS motor. It's in my C5 Corvette.

I do have a couple other more interesting motors though. A 1957 factory dual quad 392 Hemi that's going in my 1934 Ford and a FE 390 for my Z code '63 Galaxie. I'm sure an LS is way more efficient than these two boat anchors but you just can't beat the visual impact of a Hemi and putting an LS in a classic Galaxie would be just wrong.

 

[Blackmagic94]

Turbo SBF ftw

 

[rivermobster]

I own an LS motor. It's in my C5 Corvette.

I do have a couple other more interesting motors though. A 1957 factory dual quad 392 Hemi that's going in my 1934 Ford and a FE 390 for my Z code '63 Galaxie. I'm sure an LS is way more efficient than these two boat anchors but you just can't beat the visual impact of a Hemi and putting an LS in a classic Galaxie would be just wrong.

View attachment 1021182 View attachment 1021183

Love me some FE...

What ever happened with that Galaxy project??

 

[Sharp Shooter]

I own an LS motor. It's in my C5 Corvette.

I do have a couple other more interesting motors though. A 1957 factory dual quad 392 Hemi that's going in my 1934 Ford and a FE 390 for my Z code '63 Galaxie. I'm sure an LS is way more efficient than these two boat anchors but you just can't beat the visual impact of a Hemi and putting an LS in a classic Galaxie would be just wrong.

View attachment 1021182 View attachment 1021183

You're doing it right!

 

[rivermobster]

The imports have HP figure out, not torque. But you don't need the torque in a car the way you need the HP

Making over 1,000 ft lbs at 4,000 aint happening in these smaller displacement or high cylinder number engines. You need long stroke for the mechanical advantage. That's why diesels do so well in the TQ dept.

Not much competes with a big block chebby in the marine torque dept. And the big block chevy Became defacto not because they were superior but because they were very open with the aftermarket world in development going all the way back to the 60's, that openness allowed them to become the superior package from the countless development done on them by the aftermarket.

The W12 is a monster. Check out the torque, and what RPM they measured it at.

VW doesn't just build the TDI...

PERFORMANCE
Base engine size	6.0 Liters
Base engine type	W-12
Horsepower	626 Hp
Horsepower rpm	6,000
Torque	664 Lb-Ft.
Torque rpm	1,350
Drive type	All-Wheel
Turning radius	18.9 ''

 

[Bigbore500r]

The LS advantage is 650N/A HP or less, and somewhere around 1200 HP boosted or less - ON A BUDGET

We're not talking LS7's, LSA's, LT4's.......were talking regular old LS based motors that you can go out and get from dad's wrecked Denali.

You can get these numbers running factory blocks, factory heads, and shit - factory everything except a camshaft and your choice of hair dryer. You go above these levels, your spending money on components that can be applied to any motor. The power per $ at these levels or below is difficult to match, and when combined with the compact size, light weight, and laundry list of "standard" high performance features it is no wonder people flock to them. Then you look at availability, and aftermarket support, and it seals the deal.

Maybe people dont understand cause they never built motors as a poor teenager.
When's the last time you priced out these features, for your SBC / SBF / BBC / BBF? I remember being a teenager and putting my "wish list" together for a killer motor.....
What would this cost?

• 6 bolt deep skirt block with raised cam tunnel - sound bad ass? Now make it ALUMINUM
• Roller valvetrain, 7000+ rpm stable with a simple spring swap.
• Large diameter Roller cam, factory roller lifters and 1.7 ratio roller tip rockers (just da tip....don't get excited)
• 15 degree aluminum heads flowing 320cfm, sucking thru 2.165" valves
• 6.098" rods (remember when 6" rods were a BFD? Lol)
• Factory windage tray (well, pan baffle....not a true windage tray)
• Crank trigger ignition, individual coil per cylinder
• O-ring sealed throughout, with MLS head gaskets

This list of options is what mega-dollar motors sported in the 80's and 90's, and some of what I listed was pure "unobtainium".

You get all of this for $1500 from the corner junkyard now!

So when do I NOT like them?

You want big low end torque without a power adder? You still need cubic inches, and theres nothing cost effective about building a 450" LS motor (im talking big torque.....don't come at me with "my shit is making 400ftlb at 3000 and climbing" talk..... ). Thats when the Big block takes over

You want 1500+hp boosted? Anything you build is gonna be aftermarket everything - pick your motor based on what's available on your budget.

You want 800+ N/A HP? Nothing LS is gonna get you there, not even close.

You want 500ftlb of torque below 3000rpm? You sir need a simple BBC. Hell, get a Caddy 500, just keep it below 3500......

But....if your looking to build an absolute ripper for under $7000 and embarrass the shit out of a lot of people....the LS is your huckleberry.

Now, @rivermobster hates them. And @MK1MOD0 loves them.

And im a fan, but I realize their limitations for certain applications....Like 6.2's plaining heavy deck boats in July

 

[was thatguy]

I own an LS motor. It's in my C5 Corvette.

I do have a couple other more interesting motors though. A 1957 factory dual quad 392 Hemi that's going in my 1934 Ford and a FE 390 for my Z code '63 Galaxie. I'm sure an LS is way more efficient than these two boat anchors but you just can't beat the visual impact of a Hemi and putting an LS in a classic Galaxie would be just wrong.

View attachment 1021182 View attachment 1021183

Yep
My 02 C5 had one as well.
The 14 Z51 has an LT I think.

 

[Uncle Dave]

This dude is right on the money!

Yup - right tool for the right job.

 

[Icky]

What about the LSX 454 ?

 

[Uncle Dave]

What about the LSX 454 ?

Awesome,

...but not as awesome as a BBC at shoving a 25-30Ft single engine boat up on plane.

You can build a marinized monster cube BBC for relatively little dough.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

The W12 is a monster. Check out the torque, and what RPM they measured it at.

VW doesn't just build the TDI...

PERFORMANCE
Base engine size	6.0 Liters
Base engine type	W-12
Horsepower	626 Hp
Horsepower rpm	6,000
Torque	664 Lb-Ft.
Torque rpm	1,350
Drive type	All-Wheel
Turning radius	18.9 ''

Those numbers are the turbocharged ratings. A twin turbo LS can EASILY beat that. A stock 2015 Z06 isn't far off at all and has a lot more left in the tank. Cheap and popular doesn't mean they are bad or less worthy.

It's like a (insert whatever genre here) music fan that gets mad and "hates" a band just because they get popular, even though their music hasn't changed.

Plus, not everybody has cubic dollars to build a one off engine just to be slightly different.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

What I really think is...

Chebys are dirt cheap entertainment. They always have been, and always will be. This is why they are so popular in swaps and shit. There is zero special about em other than cost. It's a dinosaur push rod engine that most folks get a huge boner about.

The imports have real HP figured out, and have for MANY years now. Let's see someone drop a dual turbo'd W12 engine into a boat. You'd probably need an Arneson Drive to deal with all that torque. Now that would be way cool and bad azz...

The twin turbo W12 would break in 5 mins.

What do imports have “figured out” exactly? HP/ Liter? RPM? Economy? Reliability (VW reliability LOL) ? How to cheat emissions (LOL VW)? The engine is just an air pump to spin a turbo in your example at that point. You want the most reliable pump that moves the most air to spin the turbos. The turbo doesn’t care if the air pump has pushrods.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The W12 is a monster. Check out the torque, and what RPM they measured it at.

VW doesn't just build the TDI...

PERFORMANCE
Base engine size	6.0 Liters
Base engine type	W-12
Horsepower	626 Hp
Horsepower rpm	6,000
Torque	664 Lb-Ft.
Torque rpm	1,350
Drive type	All-Wheel
Turning radius	18.9 ''

I won’t show you the specs on a OEM supercharged dinosaur V8 then. It smokes that turd on HP, torque, weight, packaging and fuel economy.

 

[Willie B]

Love me some FE...

…Still makes me sad when I think about the burning to the ground of my Hallet with the 63 1/2 4 bolt main 406…

 

[4Waters]

…Still makes me sad when I think about the burning to the ground of my Hallet with the 63 1/2 4 bolt main 406…

RIP

 

[DLow]

I won’t show you the specs on a OEM supercharged dinosaur V8 then. It smokes that turd on HP, torque, weight, packaging and fuel economy.

Post them up. I’d like to see what OEM dinosaur engine your talking about that checks those boxes.

 

[Shlbyntro]

Post them up. I’d like to see what OEM dinosaur engine your talking about that checks those boxes.

Merlin v12.

Ford 8cyl tank engine. Pretty sure that one was NA and crushed the ls

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Post them up. I’d like to see what OEM dinosaur engine your talking about that checks those boxes.

GM LT4.. 6.2 V8 650/650 at 9 PSI. Peak torque at 3600 RPM and carries over 90% of that to redline.

It’s cheap to modify, cheap to maintain, and will fit in a huge amout of vehicles, unlike a W12 that is overweight and over complicated made by zee Germanz so you know it’s expensive to work on and engineered with no headroom.

 

[Blackmagic94]

I won’t show you the specs on a OEM supercharged dinosaur V8 then. It smokes that turd on HP, torque, weight, packaging and fuel economy.

Lol an oem ls1 is a turd until you throw money at it.



Also LSx engines are only cheap if you think junk yard pull outs is a good thing.



I like my engines like I like pussy

I never pull out

 

[Loo Dog]

This whole thread, when you really dial it all down, is just an attempt to discredit the small block chevy, in any form, as not being the greatest engine of all time. Ford guys will always whine. You’ll never see a 34 Chevy with a Ford motor in it. The LS platform is simply the continuation of the highest HP per dollar option.

 

[lbhsbz]

LS motors have no soul
I really miss the 6” rod, 13:1 C/R 355 SBC solid roller motor with an old set of worked x11 heads (heads bought from a Winston cup team IIRC)…that fucker ran good in my Datsun…and it had soul.

that was the first time I had to grind on chambers to make the heads fit over the pistons…

 

[DLow]

GM LT4.. 6.2 V8 650/650 at 9 PSI. Peak torque at 3600 RPM and carries over 90% of that to redline.

It’s cheap to modify, cheap to maintain, and will fit in a huge amout of vehicles, unlike a W12 that is overweight and over complicated made by zee Germanz so you know it’s expensive to work on and engineered with no headroom.

View attachment 1021316

Ah, the “new” LT4. Great engine for sure. Your posted numbers don’t back up your statement in any way, shape or form, but I’d agree they are not over engineered like the W12.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

This whole thread, when you really dial it all down, is just an attempt to discredit the small block chevy, in any form, as not being the greatest engine of all time. Ford guys will always whine. You’ll never see a 34 Chevy with a Ford motor in it. The LS platform is simply the continuation of the highest HP per dollar option.

I don't think anyone is trying to discredit the LS platform or SBC's. Everybody knows how great they are and how easily and cheaply they can be built. There is a reason they've been around for close to 70 years now. I've built and ran countless numbers of them and in addition to my LS1 powered C5, I have a C3 Corvette with a 350 that will be getting a 6-71 build. Also have a built 350 in my square body Blazer. And yes, had a SBC in my old '34 Ford.

I'll also speak out when I hear someone bitch about a SBC in an early Ford instead of keeping it all Ford. Hot rodders have been putting SBC's in Fords since they came out in '55. Once you pull the original motor then it is no longer how "Henry" intended it anyway. Put in whatever you want!

That said, the whole point of the OP video is that people get sick of seeing LS swaps in everything and like to see something different once in a while. Just like a guy that has a beautiful hot wife will still look at other chicks. I could have easily built an LS or SBC for my current '34 but wanted something different. An LS would have been way cheaper and put out more power than an old 392 Hemi but no way would it have the visual impact of the old motor.

In a way, I blame the internet and social media for this anti-LS phenomena. If you go to car shows or see cars on the street you really don't see that many LS swaps but they are all over the internet. And just like people whining about Chevy's in Fords, most of them don't even own a hot rod.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Ah, the “new” LT4. Great engine for sure. Your posted numbers don’t back up your statement in any way, shape or form, but I’d agree they are not over engineered like the W12.

So they don’t back up my statement, but you agree with my statement? LOL LS are undeniably lighter and a smaller package than a W12

The only reason I used an LT4 is because it is an OEM engine and there is no “aftermarket” for a W12. An aftermarket LS will make way more power than an LT4.

officially we swap an LS9 for an LT4, it makes the same power.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Lol an oem ls1 is a turd until you throw money at it. Of what has been available in vehicles for the last 20 years, the LS is pretty cheap to modify



Also LSx engines are only cheap if you think junk yard pull outs is a good thing.



I like my engines like I like pussy

I never pull out

Any OEM engine is a turd until you throw money at it.

And when rivermobster throws softballs like a VW W12 or a 2 valve Ford Mod motor, Yes an LS is cheaper and yes it is better period.

If you don’t like them don’t buy one.

Annnnd the big block in yore jet boat was probably out of some truck.. so your pullout game is strong bro.

 

[DRYHEAT]

You guys pick the damnedest things to argue about.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Engine durability has little to do with the brand or configuration and more to do with how the engine is built for the application.

I bet a W12 or W8 could be made to live in a boat, but it's easier to do the same with an American designed 90* V8. Someone has already done the homework on Chevy, just follow the recipe and your have a better than good chance of success.

AFA German stuff being expensive, I've owned multiple Bavarian automobiles and I can say the engines have never given me trouble. It's the package they come in that causes headaches.

 

[Gelcoater]

The LS advantage is 650N/A HP or less, and somewhere around 1200 HP boosted or less - ON A BUDGET

We're not talking LS7's, LSA's, LT4's.......were talking regular old LS based motors that you can go out and get from dad's wrecked Denali.

You can get these numbers running factory blocks, factory heads, and shit - factory everything except a camshaft and your choice of hair dryer. You go above these levels, your spending money on components that can be applied to any motor. The power per $ at these levels or below is difficult to match, and when combined with the compact size, light weight, and laundry list of "standard" high performance features it is no wonder people flock to them. Then you look at availability, and aftermarket support, and it seals the deal.

Maybe people dont understand cause they never built motors as a poor teenager.
When's the last time you priced out these features, for your SBC / SBF / BBC / BBF? I remember being a teenager and putting my "wish list" together for a killer motor.....
What would this cost?

• 6 bolt deep skirt block with raised cam tunnel - sound bad ass? Now make it ALUMINUM
• Roller valvetrain, 7000+ rpm stable with a simple spring swap.
• Large diameter Roller cam, factory roller lifters and 1.7 ratio roller tip rockers (just da tip....don't get excited)
• 15 degree aluminum heads flowing 320cfm, sucking thru 2.165" valves
• 6.098" rods (remember when 6" rods were a BFD? Lol)
• Factory windage tray (well, pan baffle....not a true windage tray)
• Crank trigger ignition, individual coil per cylinder
• O-ring sealed throughout, with MLS head gaskets

This list of options is what mega-dollar motors sported in the 80's and 90's, and some of what I listed was pure "unobtainium".

You get all of this for $1500 from the corner junkyard now!

So when do I NOT like them?

You want big low end torque without a power adder? You still need cubic inches, and theres nothing cost effective about building a 450" LS motor (im talking big torque.....don't come at me with "my shit is making 400ftlb at 3000 and climbing" talk..... ). Thats when the Big block takes over

You want 1500+hp boosted? Anything you build is gonna be aftermarket everything - pick your motor based on what's available on your budget.

You want 800+ N/A HP? Nothing LS is gonna get you there, not even close.

You want 500ftlb of torque below 3000rpm? You sir need a simple BBC. Hell, get a Caddy 500, just keep it below 3500......

But....if your looking to build an absolute ripper for under $7000 and embarrass the shit out of a lot of people....the LS is your huckleberry.

Now, @rivermobster hates them. And @MK1MOD0 loves them.

And im a fan, but I realize their limitations for certain applications....Like 6.2's plaining heavy deck boats in July

When were 6” rods a BFD? And in what?

 

[Blackmagic94]

Any OEM engine is a turd until you throw money at it.

And when rivermobster throws softballs like a VW W12 or a 2 value Ford Mod motor, Yes an LS is cheaper and yes it is better period.

If you don’t like them done buy one.

Annnnd the big block in yore jet boat was probably out of some truck.. so your pullout game is strong bro.

I didn’t build that motor homie. I’ve been slowly unfucking everything that was done before me



But I agree. Everyone is lazy now and just does a LSx engine because they are cheap used. Shit people aren’t even fabbing their own turbo kits anymore as it’s just a click away on eBay now.

 

[DRYHEAT]

When were 6” rods a BFD? And in what?

Most of us didn’t have Mopar‘s or big blocks back in the day.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I didn’t build that motor homie. I’ve been slowly unfucking everything that was done before me



But I agree. Everyone is lazy now and just does a LSx engine because they are cheap used. Shit people aren’t even fabbing their own turbo kits anymore as it’s just a click away on eBay now.

So you just do cleanup on someone else’s pullout game?

Yore not helping yore case here.

LS is not the only option, but it’s an easy option. If you want to go have fun, why waste more time and more money to likely go the same speed, or worse slower.

I like building shit but I don’t like endless builds. I like to run my stuff. In my case a mild LS was a no brainer. I would have been through 3 turbo rotaries by now in my RX7. I run 91 pump gas instead of race gas. The entire package is slightly lighter, and makes way less heat than a turbo rotary, and the fuel mileage is 2x.

Could I have made 500 HP some other way, sure but it would have cost me more money and time and or been heavier.

 

[DRYHEAT]

So you just do cleanup on someone else’s pullout game?

Yore not helping yore case here.

LS is not the only option, but it’s an easy option. If you want to go have fun, why waste more time and more money to likely go the same speed, or worse slower.

I like building shit but I don’t like endless builds. I like to run my stuff. In my case a mild LS was a no brainer. I would have been through 3 turbo rotaries by now in my RX7. I run 91 pump gas instead of race gas. The entire package is slightly lighter, and makes way less heat than a turbo rotary, and the fuel mileage is 2x.

Could I have made 500 HP some other way, sure but it would have cost me more money and time and or been heavier.

Easy and cheap is the name of the game, I’ll leave the tricky stuff to the professionals.