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Massive Power outages for NorCal

Discussion in 'RD's Lounge' started by highvoltagehands, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. highvoltagehands

    highvoltagehands Laveycraft Nuera 2750

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    PG&E has scheduled a PSPS (Public Safety Power Shutoff) Event beginning 0400 Wednesday 9th. Up to 600,000 customers could be without power for couple of days because PG&E hasn't maintained their system properly and is worried about more fire liability.
    We had over 5,000 linemen working to inspect and repair their system from Jan-August. PG&E had us take care of any emergency repair tags due Immediately or within 30 days. Any other work tags required at 6 months or 1 year were pulled. Soo Rather than let us get ahead on repairs required in 6-12 months= Jan-June, PG&E pulled majority work back until next year and sent half the crews and equipment packing and will resort to PSPS to get Rate Increase and probably some more bailout or forgiveness. Just Pathetic.
    Here's a list of areas scheduled to be shutoff tomorrow.
    https://www.pge.com/en_US/safety/em...nt.page?WT.pgeac=CurrentAlerts_PSPS_LearnMore
     
  2. Danger Dave

    Danger Dave Well-Known Member

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    Will the homeless still be able to get free needles during the outage?
     
  3. Sleek-Jet

    Sleek-Jet Well-Known Member

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    This pioneer moment is being brought to you by PG&E.

    With only some jest, isn't this what people have been protesting for? That electric generation contributes to global warming, that we need to learn to get along with less of it? Welcome to the future boys and girls.
     
  4. RCDave

    RCDave Well-Known Member

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    Pge should be broken up and sold off.
     
  5. Sleek-Jet

    Sleek-Jet Well-Known Member

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    What ROI is there? Nobody wants a decrepit utility they have to pour billions of dollars into.

    Break it up, but the only thing anyone will buy are the urban, high density areas.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  6. SoCalDave

    SoCalDave Well-Known Member

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    Heard on KFI on my 4am commute that SCE will be shutting power off for about 100k customers.
     
  7. Wizard29

    Wizard29 Really a 34 Eliminator

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    I've said it on here before and I'll say it again. This sort of stuff is because the utilities get blamed for starting fires even though they are required to supply power in areas where it isn't a good idea to supply power. They are not permitted by the state to say "no" when a new housing development goes up in the middle of hills filled with dry grass or dead pine trees. It's a risk that is forced upon the utilities and no matter how good the maintenance on the system is, things can still happen. Even if it is completely unrelated to the equipment and a fire starts (such a a tweaker that starts a fire while lounging under a pole or tower), the utilities get blamed simply because their equipment was nearby and it is viewed as the "most likely" cause.

    The PSPS events are a way to minimize the liability. Utilities can't say "no" to providing power on a permanent basis, but they are permitted to stop power flow on a temporary basis. A fire starts in the area, and the utility can immediately say, "there was no power flow in the area at the time, so it wasn't us." Much better position to be in. It's also making a political statement and sending a message to the state..."If you keep blaming us for starting fires (whether that's actually what happened or not) and keep making us put equipment in hazardous fire areas, then doing without power at certain times is what some of the public will have to deal with."
     
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  8. TCHB

    TCHB Well-Known Member

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    Yes they are reducing the liability of fires with their power lines/transformers in the heavier wooded areas. At SCE we would ask for $$$ during the rate case to make sure we could keep the lines clear of trees. Nope never got enough to trim every tree for hundreds of miles and fight with homeowners that did not want the tree touched. Yes it takes lots of money to mitigate every tree 100%!
     
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  9. DaveC

    DaveC Car-boat motors

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    Its official. We are a third world country.
     
  10. Uncle Dave

    Uncle Dave Well-Known Member

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    This is terrible for my business.

    Is this still on? PG&E is overloaded.

    Dave
     
  11. Xring01

    Xring01 Well-Known Member

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    The general public has no idea of the problems the utility’s face today.

    I have stated a few things on other threads, and I can go on for hours..

    Currently attending the IEEE Switchgear Meeting. The key topic of concern is CARB regulations on SF6, the impacts it has on the Industry. There are some huge numbers be thrown out, with very little thought on the Reliabilty of the grid, safety of the techs, or safety of the public. The people attending have a general consensus that CARB doesnt care, they just want to be green... who cares about workers safety or the general public if we reduce greenhouse gases.

    Regulatory bodies have no idea of reality, this costs Utilitys alot of $$$.. which will impact Reliabilty in the future.

    Funny thing is... the EPA will most likely adopt the CARB regs, implement them nation wide...

    This is a huge topic.... if you have questions just pm me, we can take offline..
     
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  12. TCHB

    TCHB Well-Known Member

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    We have been talking about getting SF6 at least 20 years in SCE 220 yards. As we speak the old generating plants are being removed and new ones installed because of a Federal Law saying you can not use cooling water from a lake,ocean or river. This was pushed by lobbyists supporting General Electric and other suppliers of new plants. To replace one plant it is over $1B and the plant will put out less electricity but it will get better fuel economy. Lots of things go on behind the scenes in the utility world.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  13. buck35

    buck35 Well-Known Member

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  14. Spray-N-Sand

    Spray-N-Sand Well-Known Member

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    Bingo! Ultimately PG&E is likely looking for the mass outcry depicting this can’t happen, you can’t just shut off our power and at that time they’ll seek a non-accountability clause.
     
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  15. NorCalRiverRat

    NorCalRiverRat BANNED

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    to Southern California Edison ?



    :confused:
     
  16. Waterjunky

    Waterjunky Well-Known Member

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    I am lucky, SMUD is one of the more reliable and cheaper utilities to be in. We don't have that many issues, the down side is that I am in a far corner of their service area and when I go down I can stay that way for days. I cannot blame them though, do you fix the issue and relight 2k people or do you fix the issue only affecting 7 houses.........
     
  17. Uncle Dave

    Uncle Dave Well-Known Member

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    Before this we had near 4 nines reliability.

    UD
     
  18. Rvrluvr

    Rvrluvr CLAMP ON RACING

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    Welcome to my fucking world!!!
     
  19. hallett21

    hallett21 Well-Known Member

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    This a bad time to say we are a Generac backup generator dealer? Lol


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  20. RCDave

    RCDave Well-Known Member

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    Both are responsible for deaths in the hundreds and property desrruction in the billions. Just in the last few years alone
     
  21. Spray-N-Sand

    Spray-N-Sand Well-Known Member

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    Where i’m At in Northern Cal. we typically don’t see too many power outages, mostly from big storms, etc. With this shutdown being so large, were already seeing some older folk not knowing what to do or whom to ask (PG&E’s website went down), I’m assuming cell towers are also going dark. It’s going to be a shit-storm in quite a few of the areas, with unfortunately wind being only part of the concern now. This angle PG&E is playing hopefully doesn’t inadvertently claim innocent lives so they can say “look it’s not our fault”.
     
  22. Uncle Dave

    Uncle Dave Well-Known Member

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    Hows your availability on a 200 and a 100 KV unit?

    UD
     
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  23. TCHB

    TCHB Well-Known Member

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    Maybe people who move into high fire hazard areas should pay extra for the service. How do you insure 100% that a transformer or a tree does not get to close. One way you double the budget and you still can mitigate the 100% that a electrical fault does not start a fire. I guess you could go underground with 500kv lines. You’re bills would triple
     
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  24. gqchris

    gqchris Well-Known Member

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    Right now my Biggest Client is scrambling to find housing for adults with disabilities in the Bay area that are slated to be shutoff according to the PG&E website. They are imminent in 24 hours. This is a major thing and its going to be a shit show from the looks of it.
     
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  25. old rigger

    old rigger Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but thankfully no plastic straws.
     
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  26. hallett21

    hallett21 Well-Known Member

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    Online looks like weeks. I can make a call in the morning if you wanted a realistic wait time.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  27. RCDave

    RCDave Well-Known Member

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    It's a proven fact they were negligent managing and maintaining their equipment. They don't deserve the privilege of staying in business.
     
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  28. Brobee

    Brobee Well-Known Member

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    I’m a lineman for Sdge. Last year during one of the worst fire seasons in recent history, power was shut off in high risk areas for days at a time in our territory. The customers were notified and centers were set up in the communities with air conditioning, charging stations and information. Pg&e had a fire, SCE had a fire and we got away clear. This is going to be a very normal and common occurrence every El Niño / Red Flag event we have now. The fire we had in ‘07 was caused by the telephone company lashing coming undone and getting into the HV lines. Like Wizard said, even it we don’t directly cause the fire the utility will take the blame. At the end of the day the utilities would much rather cut the power off to a relatively small number of customers then take the risk of another billion dollar fire. I think after the other two utilities saw what Sdge did and that we got away without having a fire, this is now going to be the go to move from now on. Anyone in eastern San Diego should expect the same thing Thursday morning till Friday night.


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  29. GRADS

    GRADS Well-Known Member

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    Only locals will get this...

    3cr1nb.jpg
     
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  30. DC-88

    DC-88 Well-Known Member

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    Lawyers screwing it up again for all of us . Another result are the overkill "compliance" depts in the big utilities as a result of the lawsuits. A good friend of mine, who used to set records for overtime as a bad ass lineman, transferred within the company into this when it became mandated a while back as a way to head toward mgmt. later on. For the last 8 years he's been "working" out of town with his "team" , banging chicks, partying, drinking lizzard's mouth by the gallon , and racking up Months worth of Marriott points instead of doing what he was trained to do. You could make a movie on the stuff he has time for now..... Pussification of America strikes again--
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
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  31. Carlson-jet

    Carlson-jet Well-Known Member

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    If only there was a way to transmit power not using overhead lines. :rolleyes:

    I sure hope somebody invents it soon. :D
     
  32. Brobee

    Brobee Well-Known Member

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    Cause it’s super practical to trench underground power lines to every rural customer miles off the main road and up the side of a mountain.


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  33. TCHB

    TCHB Well-Known Member

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    You can butt it is $$$$$$$
     
  34. RCDave

    RCDave Well-Known Member

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    It is when lives are saved and thousands of homes arent burnt to the dirt...
     
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  35. Carlson-jet

    Carlson-jet Well-Known Member

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    I was hoping that might pop up. Life per Mile so far plus the billions spent. I think that number was surpassed long ago? Not to mention the costs of maintaining overhead transmission lines and utility poles etc. The land is already acquired.
     
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  36. RCDave

    RCDave Well-Known Member

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    We have a big ass BINGO right there folks
     
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  37. Wizard29

    Wizard29 Really a 34 Eliminator

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    As was already mentioned, your bill would triple. And that's probably a conservative estimate all things considered.

    Overhead is easier to maintain than underground. When you have a fault underground, it becomes difficult to tell exactly where it is and what's causing it. When you finally narrow that down, you get to pull all new cables (if it's even possible) or dig at the fault location, make repairs, and backfill. There's a lot more to it than people think. And the higher the voltage, the more difficult underground becomes.

    Much of the land is already acquired, but not all of it is utility owned right of way. Think lines that cross roads or freeways. Does the utility actually own that section of road? No, there is an easement in place. That happens a lot. And even if the land is owned by the utility, that doesn't mean they can dig it up at will. The environmental clearances and permitting in this great state of CA would be a nightmare and would add costs exponentially. Once again, a lot more to it than people think.

    Just giving you the facts on the reality of the underground deal. Are you willing to pay?
     
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  38. Shrub Lurker

    Shrub Lurker Well-Known Member

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    Well here is something to think about: when pge does one of these public safety shut downs be it for five minutes or five weeks all affected power lines will be inspected prior to turning the juice back on.
    Enjoy.
     
  39. Carlson-jet

    Carlson-jet Well-Known Member

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    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
    I don't live in a tinder box. That is a question that should be asked during the permit process in the area at risk?
    I understand the front end costs. Now The back-end costs are being dealt with. Are the rates skyrocketing?
    Personally I don't feel the houses should be built. But.. When they are permitted, just like schools and environmental impacts and the dozens of other things all costs should be included I would expect. Name another state this is happening in where lives are lost and damage is in the billions on such a frequent basis?
    Maybe Sacramento better get involved to protect citizens rather than invaders and junkies.
     
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  40. bldrinker

    bldrinker Well-Known Member

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    I love how the customers think maintaining the grid is cheap and easy.

    There is so much regulatory bullshit we deal with on a routine basis just so you guys can flip a switch and not think twice about it.
    But soon as you might be without power for a few days the world ends.

    For what it’s worth SCE is spending tons of money to avoid fires right now to keep you all happy.
    LOL wait until the rate case.
     
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  41. bldrinker

    bldrinker Well-Known Member

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    Oh and to the crowd that wants underground. SCE is rolling out covered conductor for overhead systems.
     
  42. Brobee

    Brobee Well-Known Member

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    True statement. I get a driver, a circuit map, and a highlighter. Every mainline, branch line and secondary house service has to have “eyes on” prior to energizing after any wind event. Once a circuit is de-energized, it’s automatically going to be many hours before power is back. Last year in backcountry Julian anytime a customer complained I told them at least you’re not on fire.


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  43. Carlson-jet

    Carlson-jet Well-Known Member

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    I want to tell you something.
    The utilities you are claiming are victims, lobbied to put themselves in this position when times were easy. When money came to them fast and cheap. They FUCKING STOLE the ability for distribution and are now claiming victimization. The best sympathy you could get from me is a swift kick in the nuts. :D
     
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  44. Wizard29

    Wizard29 Really a 34 Eliminator

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    If the costs of undergrounding the entire system were factored in from the start, nothing would get built. Here's something to consider:

    Say a transmission line going into an existing substation that would take on the additional load of a new housing development was underground. To enable that substation to serve the additional load, the conductor on that transmission line needs to be bigger. Well shit. Now we have to dig up that existing transmission line and upgrade all of the underground equipment associated with it. The same could apply to any existing distribution line running from that substation to provide power to customers that might need to handle additional load. The costs of that alone would make those new houses so expensive none would sell and none would be built. In their quest for more property taxes, the government isn't going to allow that.

    I agree Sacramento needs to get off their ass and figure something out. They could start by maintaining the forests properly. Go up to the Shaver Lake area where SCE owns a lot of the forest in which some of their generation facilities are located. That forest borders government managed forest and the line is pretty obvious. Government forest is overgrown as can be with literally tons of fuel available. SCE forest is well managed, maintained, and thinned appropriately.

    This happens more in CA because of our very unique climate...haven't you heard CA has the best weather? Temperate and wet enough to allow fuels to grow rapidly in winter and spring, but dry enough for those fuels to be easily ignited in summer and fall. Population density also has a lot to do with it.
     
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  45. 74 spectra20 v-drive

    74 spectra20 v-drive 74 spectra20 v-drive

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    I just rolled into Fairfield for work this week and holy crap it looks like a hurricane is on the way, gas stations back up onto the roads, went to Railey's and a 60' water section in the store is empty...funny the beer was pretty low as well :)
     
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  46. RCDave

    RCDave Well-Known Member

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    Collusion in the Vail of bankruptcy.....for all the taxpayers to cover to support murder at the hands of the utilities. Government intervention at is finest....
     
  47. hallett21

    hallett21 Well-Known Member

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    You can pay now or pay later but you will pay. Whether that’s generator back up, solar panels, underground services, etc.

    Or whether that’s fires that cause utility companies to raise rates.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  48. Carlson-jet

    Carlson-jet Well-Known Member

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    I've injected enough politics into this. To all the lineman and first responders who deal with this stuff on a daily, weekly, yearly basis I give my thanks to you.
    To the rate payers I say vote for the people who you vetted.
    Overhead lines in areas that are tinderboxes have no place. IT'S ONE OR THE OTHER. Choose to live.
    I'm out.
     
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  49. lake p.a.l.

    lake p.a.l. Well-Known Member

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    So the powers that be can't tell us who will be without power, nor how long we might be without power. Gas station 200 yards from our house hiked their prices 40 cents per gallon. What a crock of shiznit
     
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  50. 4Waters

    4Waters Well-Known Member

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    Here in Simi we might be out of power for 2-3 days, absolute crock of shit, my head has to be on a swivel at work if I don't sleep then I most likely won't work, and I am paycheck to paycheck.
     

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