Motorhome towing question

[RiverDave]

My motorhome is rated for 10,000 lbs.. How far past that do ya think you could go?

12-13,000 gonna be a deal breaker? I’m considering buying a work and play 28fbw which weighs in at 7500 dry.. speed car is around 2,000.. 3 kids quads are another 1,000 pds.. then you add in the 110 gallons of water and however much fuel it holds and I think we are gonna be pushing the 12,000 mark.. then I figured 500-1000 pds of random shit pushes us to 12,500-13,000..

Would ya do it?

 

[DRYHEAT]

Well, if a Toyota tundra can tow the space shuttle…..

Seriously I think you can but you need to beef up the cooling on everything and be a very attentive when driving. Don’t know what transmission you have but I’m thinking that’s probably your weak link.

 

[rivermobster]

I'll take an extra large popcorn with real butter. None of that fake butter for me please.

Need the good stuff for this thread...

 

[One2go]

You have a pusher now correct? Most likely a freightliner chassis with Air brakes ? If so not a problem IMO, Receivers are usually always only 10 k rated Towed a stacker with way more than that in it for years. Is it technically legal.. probably not. LOL

 

[zhandfull]

I see so many class A gas rigs pulling 10k enclosed trailers when they are only rated for 5k. You definitely won’t be the only one.

 

[dspracing]

Considering that you really can’t factor the weight of imagery items, you’re at max 11k lbs. you’re good.

but really I would worry more about the stopping than the going. So long as the trailer has ample braking capability you should be fine.

 

[RiverDave]

You have a pusher now correct? Most likely a freightliner chassis with Air brakes ? If so not a problem IMO, Receivers are usually always only 10 k rated Towed a stacker with way more than that in it for years. Is it technically legal.. probably not. LOL

Yes I have a class A pusher. This is the specs on the motorhome.

2014 Forest River Legacy 340BH specs and literature guide

www.rvusa.com

 

[RiverDave]

This is the trailer I was thinking about..

It has 20’ish feet of cargo space and enough space to put a smaller kids quad up in between the cabinets.

upside is now friends can come camp with us.. we have another bathroom shower / kitchen etc.. plus drop down beds and couches etc.. so kids can have their own place to hang out with their friends.. or he’ll I could have a place to hang out and not feel “cramped” lol

Only real downside is I’m losing 4’ of storage, and this thing is pretty long at 32’ish feet? Other downside is I am maxing out on weight..

I think the extra kitchen / bathroom / shower is gonna be worth the trade off.

Check out this floor plan.

2016 Work and Play Toy Hauler Series M-28FBW Prices

Research 2016 Work and Play Toy Hauler Series M-28FBW standard equipment, prices & specs at NADAguides

www.nadaguides.com

 

[RiverDave]

WTF does ODS abd DS mean on the dimensions?

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Your Cummins is a small block, 300 / 660 isn’t much, it’s going to be a struggle to pull 12,000 pounds. You can have it reflashed at a Cummins authorized center (we use the one in Avondale outside of Phoenix), $400 and it will take it to 360 / 850, that will help a lot, but still for 12,000 pounds you would really want a big block which will get your torque way north of 1000, torque is what you need for towing.

Our Seneca has the same engine and I had it flashed, it’s still a slug towing but not as much now. Towing the 28 Daytona to Powell we were down to 25 mph at times. This trip we are flat towing my Ram 2500 and it gets prettt slow on the long grades, like put the emergency flashers slow.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Also consider that the Diesel engine in your dually has about 100 more hp and torque around 1000, but your truck doesn’t weigh 28,000 pounds. Now add 12,000 pounds. So that little diesel in your rv with considerably less power than your dually has to move 40,000 pounds. You need a big block motorhome with the bigger Allison to do it right, and a tag to really do it right.

 

[DLC]

i have no clue what those stand for I was going to ask what FBW stands for.....

WTF does ODS abd DS mean on the dimensions?

View attachment 1005741

 

[Meaney77]

Your Cummins is a small block, 300 / 660 isn’t much, it’s going to be a struggle to pull 12,000 pounds. You can have it reflashed at a Cummins authorized center (we use the one in Avondale outside of Phoenix), $400 and it will take it to 360 / 850, that will help a lot, but still for 12,000 pounds you would really want a big block which will get your torque way north of 1000, torque is what you need for towing.

Our Seneca has the same engine and I had it flashed, it’s still a slug towing but not as much now. Towing the 28 Daytona to Powell we were down to 25 mph at times. This trip we are flat towing my Ram 2500 and it gets prettt slow on the long grades, like put the emergency flashers slow.

What's the deal with the flash? Any change in mileage, also what about reliability?

 

[RiverDave]

Your Cummins is a small block, 300 / 660 isn’t much, it’s going to be a struggle to pull 12,000 pounds. You can have it reflashed at a Cummins authorized center (we use the one in Avondale outside of Phoenix), $400 and it will take it to 360 / 850, that will help a lot, but still for 12,000 pounds you would really want a big block which will get your torque way north of 1000, torque is what you need for towing.

Our Seneca has the same engine and I had it flashed, it’s still a slug towing but not as much now. Towing the 28 Daytona to Powell we were down to 25 mph at times. This trip we are flat towing my Ram 2500 and it gets prettt slow on the long grades, like put the emergency flashers slow.

we aren’t towing this thing everywhere all the time.. I just think it would make for the ultimate setup for what we have been doing..

I keep hearing how underpowered the 300 is but everywhere I drive this thing I’m running 60+ up hills pulling my current enclosed?

I am interested in that flash deal though? Doesn’t sound like a bad deal?

 

[bagged97taco]

Your Cummins is a small block, 300 / 660 isn’t much, it’s going to be a struggle to pull 12,000 pounds. You can have it reflashed at a Cummins authorized center (we use the one in Avondale outside of Phoenix), $400 and it will take it to 360 / 850, that will help a lot, but still for 12,000 pounds you would really want a big block which will get your torque way north of 1000, torque is what you need for towing.

Our Seneca has the same engine and I had it flashed, it’s still a slug towing but not as much now. Towing the 28 Daytona to Powell we were down to 25 mph at times. This trip we are flat towing my Ram 2500 and it gets prettt slow on the long grades, like put the emergency flashers slow.

Do you have the Alison 2500 trans? I want to flash my Seneca but worried about the weak link aka trans

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Do you have the Alison 2500 trans? I want to flash my Seneca but worried about the weak link aka trans

Yes I have the 2500, 360 / 800 is within its capabilities.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

we aren’t towing this thing everywhere all the time.. I just think it would make for the ultimate setup for what we have been doing..

I keep hearing how underpowered the 300 is but everywhere I drive this thing I’m running 60+ up hills pulling my current enclosed?

I am interested in that flash deal though? Doesn’t sound like a bad deal?

It’s cheap for the gains. Your engines has to 5 years old or more from the in service date.

What's the deal with the flash? Any change in mileage, also what about reliability?

Mileage stayed the same, I got 8.5 mph towing a 6000 pound truck across the country. It’s done by Cummins, thats the only reason I did it.

 

[RiverDave]

It’s cheap for the gains. Your engines has to 5 years old or more from the in service date.

Mileage stayed the same, I got 8.5 mph towing a 6000 pound truck across the country. It’s done by Cummins, thats the only reason I did it.

not sure I understand the first part.. the engine has to what?

mine is a 2014 so we are far past 5 years? Even though it doesn’t have many miles?

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

not sure I understand the first part.. the engine has to what?

mine is a 2014 so we are far past 5 years? Even though it doesn’t have many miles?

Doesn’t matter on miles, it just has to be in service for 5 years. Cummins will plug it in and be able to tell you that date, under 5 years they won’t do the upgrade. Well they will but it costs considerably more, like $2500, something to do with the DOT and what they have to do paperwork wise when it’s within 5 years. They explained it to me, complicated, lots of regulatory hoops they have to jump through less than 5, after 5 there are none so it’s just the cost of their labor to do it.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Those older Work n Play's are fucking heavy and have VERY minimal creature comforts. Likely just fine for what you are referring to using it, but not too many people are too crazy about it.

 

[RCDave]

I wouldn't go that heavy behind that RV. Once the weights of water, people, cargo, gear, etc. Then combine with a heavy trailer, its going to likely exceed the GCVR of the RV

 

[Long Way Home]

You will never get puled over but If you where to have accident while towing and you know the RV/Trailer was intentional overloaded beyond the stated capacity. The insurance company will say breach of contract/no coverage. In each case an investigation would have to occur to prove that it was intentional.
Something like this -At the court house the trail lawyer for the injured party will be able thru internet research establish that the insured both knowingly and willfully exceeded his RV/Trailer capacity. The insurance company will then denied your claim and you will be on your own.

 

[OCMerrill]

WTF does ODS abd DS mean on the dimensions?

ODS = Off Drivers Side
DS - Dinette Side

 

[rivermobster]

You will never get puled over but If you where to have accident while towing and you know the RV/Trailer was intentional overloaded beyond the stated capacity. The insurance company will say breach of contract/no coverage. In each case an investigation would have to occur to prove that it was intentional.
Something like this -At the court house the trail lawyer for the injured party will be able thru internet research establish that the insured both knowingly and willfully exceeded his RV/Trailer capacity. The insurance company will then denied your claim and you will be on your own.

This info has been debated to death...

Is someone denied coverage cause they are driving drunk?

Now with that being said...

Civil Court would be a whole different story IF you are found liable.

 

[DILLIGAF]

Your Cummins is a small block, 300 / 660 isn’t much, it’s going to be a struggle to pull 12,000 pounds. You can have it reflashed at a Cummins authorized center (we use the one in Avondale outside of Phoenix), $400 and it will take it to 360 / 850, that will help a lot, but still for 12,000 pounds you would really want a big block which will get your torque way north of 1000, torque is what you need for towing.

Our Seneca has the same engine and I had it flashed, it’s still a slug towing but not as much now. Towing the 28 Daytona to Powell we were down to 25 mph at times. This trip we are flat towing my Ram 2500 and it gets prettt slow on the long grades, like put the emergency flashers slow.

i agree with this statement. Going up hills you will be a dog on steroids

 

[HB2Havasu]

Besides not having enough power to pull 12,000# your also going to have a bigger issue trying to stop that additional weight also. I believe the Work & Play Toy Hauler comes with drum brakes so the stopping power is limited. My experience is you should never exceed 75% of your rated GVWR on a Class A. There's a lot of other toy haulers that come in a lot lighter than that. I guess I'm kind of lost. Why do you need to tow a Toy Hauler behind a Class A? Are you getting into the Coyote business? LOL

 

[fmo24]

Besides not having enough power to pull 12,000# your also going to have a bigger issue trying to stop that additional weight also. I believe the Work & Play Toy Hauler comes with drum brakes so the stopping power is limited. My experience is you should never exceed 75% of your rated GVWR on a Class A. There's a lot of other toy haulers that come in a lot lighter than that. I guess I'm kind of lost. Why do you need to tow a Toy Hauler behind a Class A? Are you getting into the Coyote business? LOL

He stated looking for additional space for friends and a place for the kids to hang out not inside the Moho. I’m sure there are lighter options though.

 

[sirbob]

At the risk of offending... lol

the biggest issue I see is that I don’t like the look of that trailer

I am much more of a true box cargo/car trailer guy - ATC / Hualmark/featherlight etc

this would look great behind your rig...

 

[Ladsm]

I had that motor/trans package in a similar motorhome and when I started towing a large enclosed behind it with 8-10K weight and I had to watch the exhaust temps. Hills it would get up to 1200 Deg and I had to downshift and work it to keep it from going higher.

 

[River Runnin]

.... ....replace the 10K hitch with a 15K! And! --https://www.bankspower.com

 

[RiverDave]

I had that motor/trans package in a similar motorhome and when I started towing a large enclosed behind it with 8-10K weight and I had to watch the exhaust temps. Hills it would get up to 1200 Deg and I had to downshift and work it to keep it from going higher.

I don’t have any options in my rig to shift? There is just a drive neutral and reverse button? Not sure I have an exhaust temp gauge either?

 

[RiverDave]

At the risk of offending... lol

the biggest issue I see is that I don’t like the look of that trailer

I am much more of a true box cargo/car trailer guy - ATC / Hualmark/featherlight etc

this would look great behind your rig...

View attachment 1006158

That’s gonna be twice the cost.. no water, no fuel, no AC, no bathroom, no kitchen.. lol.

 

[RiverDave]

So what other models are there that are similar to the 28fbw??
I want 20’ of storage abd would like the kitchen and bathroom.

 

[Singleton]

So what other models are there that are similar to the 28fbw??
I want 20’ of storage abd would like the kitchen and bathroom.

Ultra Santek. Have victor build what you need.
best purchase I made from a member on the boards

 

[fmo24]

I don’t have any options in my rig to shift? There is just a drive neutral and reverse button? Not sure I have an exhaust temp gauge either?

In the dash screen you can scroll thru many screens. All engine functions such as boost, temp, trans temps, oil pressure.
You should be able to shift with the up and down arrows

 

[sirbob]

That’s gonna be twice the cost.. no water, no fuel, no AC, no bathroom, no kitchen.. lol.

I realize the cost is higher - but...

Singletons set up is the way to go. You have a great looking pusher - those toy haulers just look cheap to me behind something like your RV.

 

[glamis0812]

Ultra Santek. Have victor build what you need.
best purchase I made from a member on the boards

Totally agree with this but Victors trailers are not exactly LIGHT because they are built way better then a toy hauler. RD will definitely spend more money and Victor has a good size wait list right now, my stacker build is getting close.

 

[X Hoser]

Doesn’t matter on miles, it just has to be in service for 5 years. Cummins will plug it in and be able to tell you that date, under 5 years they won’t do the upgrade. Well they will but it costs considerably more, like $2500, something to do with the DOT and what they have to do paperwork wise when it’s within 5 years. They explained it to me, complicated, lots of regulatory hoops they have to jump through less than 5, after 5 there are none so it’s just the cost of their labor to do it.

I was told by another insurance agent that "if" there was an accident while towing more than the rated GVWR, or GCVWR, the claim may be denied. Any experience with these types of claims? You know what they say, "it’s all good until it isn’t”. Always wondered if this could be true?

 

[fmo24]

I was told by another insurance agent that "if" there was an accident while towing more than the rated GVWR, or GCVWR, the claim may be denied. Any experience with these types of claims? You know what they say, "it’s all good until it isn’t”. Always wondered if this could be true?

Years ago my parents had a blow out on rear tire of truck while towing their fifth wheel. Tore the bed and exhaust up. They made him weigh truck and trailer to determine if he was overloaded or the tire just failed. Think they went after tire company

 

[RVR SWPR]

My motorhome is rated for 10,000 lbs.. How far past that do ya think you could go?
12-13,000 gonna be a deal breaker? I’m considering buying a work and play 28fbw which weighs in at 7500 dry.. speed car is around 2,000.. 3 kids quads are another 1,000 pds.. then you add in the 110 gallons of water and however much fuel it holds and I think we are gonna be pushing the 12,000 mark.. then I figured 500-1000 pds of random shit pushes us to 12,500-13,000..
Would ya do it?

RD,When you ready to really lite this thread up,you know who to call.

 

[RiverDave]

This is slightly smaller than the one I wanted.. but I think I can make it work?

2015 Used Forest River WORK AND PLAY 26FBW Toy Hauler in Colorado, CO | recreationalvehiclemarket.com

Last updated at Apr 10, 2024, 2015 Used Forest River WORK AND PLAY 26FBW Toy Hauler for sale in Colorado, CO with price $22,995. Leave a message to dealer for latest information.

www.recreationalvehiclemarket.com

Anyone figure out how to contact the dealership or person that has this? I can’t seem to figure it out on that website

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Yes I have a class A pusher. This is the specs on the motorhome.

2014 Forest River Legacy 340BH specs and literature guide

www.rvusa.com

what you are saying is un true,... or mistaken,.. also... so is the rv usa add...what you have is a 10k hitch ... not tow capasity....

so here is what you really have,... and what will get hurt towing 12k lbs... first problem is the small radiator, next, you only have an allison 2500 trans....

your coach has a 2800 lb chassis that thats the gross vech, weight rating or gvwr.... first thing you need to do to get tow capacity is get the rv loaded and weighed... like in everyone and every thing on a trip and roll across the scale....i'm gonna bet a fair amount that you are over weight loaded....but just for reading, lets say you do weigh 28,000 loaded.... that coach was not ever rated to tow 10k empty, let alone loaded.... it's only a 33,000 lb gcwr chassis....that means gross combinded weight rated.... i'm guessing it weighs 26k empty.... so that only 7k tow capacity empty...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

14_Legacy_A.pdf (rvusa.com) heres your coach brochure

 

[v6toy4x]

SUB"D

My opinion is steadfast, the 6.7/300/660/2500 combo is borderline enough for just the coach.
Manufacturers use this as their entry level combo to meet a price point and that is all.

Turning up the 6.7 to the 360/800 tune with a 2500 pulling 28-30,000lbs is just a time bomb IMO, only question is how long is the fuse.
Allison 2500MH is rated at max 700ft lbs input torque with SEM shift energy management. W/O SEM it is derated to 575ft lbs
For comparison the next step up is the 3000MH at 1250lbs (W/O SEM) now that is a trans built to pull!
If you dont pull the mountains and keep the converter locked and temps down it may go for a while.
One A Day seems to be making it work.
I will say he speaks the truth the 6.7 even at 360/800 will not like pulling the weight of your coach and an additional 10-12K
I look at diesels like lithium batteries they go full tilt until you get to the limit and then they quit.

TOWING CAPACITY-very misleading
Power is never really factored into the towing capacity, mfr slaps on a 10,000lb hitch assy and says it is rated to tow 10K
Until your 28,000 GVWR chassis crosses the scales loaded at 23,000, your 10k just went to 5K

But like assholes we all have one and I have my popcorn ready.

Turn that bitch up and let her rip buttercup
No guts no glory
Only time will tell

I mean all of this in good fun, I have no room to talk. I have turned up every diesel I have owned and ripped through more transmissions than i will admit
I have snapped 300M armament input shafts, fried more clutch paks than french fries at mcdonalds, and warped more clutch hubs and drums than minds on LSD!
But I get to brag around the campfire, if I make it there, I am hauling 5000 and towing 9500 through the sierras with 400Hp and 1100lbs of torque EGTS at 1350 on a 5.9 cummins and my 3rd 47RE in 87,000 miles. Its just your kids MONEY!

 

[v6toy4x]

what you are saying is un true,... or mistaken,.. also... so is the rv usa add...what you have is a 10k hitch ... not tow capasity....

so here is what you really have,... and what will get hurt towing 12k lbs... first problem is the small radiator, next, you only have an allison 2500 trans....

your coach has a 2800 lb chassis that thats the gross vech, weight rating or gvwr.... first thing you need to do to get tow capacity is get the rv loaded and weighed... like in everyone and every thing on a trip and roll across the scale....i'm gonna bet a fair amount that you are over weight loaded....but just for reading, lets say you do weigh 28,000 loaded.... that coach was not ever rated to tow 10k empty, let alone loaded.... it's only a 33,000 lb gcwr chassis....that means gross combinded weight rated.... i'm guessing it weighs 26k empty.... so that only 7k tow capacity empty...

I was wondering when you would get here, how come you can say the same thing but in 1/3 the words!!!

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

SUB"D

My opinion is steadfast, the 6.7/300/660/2500 combo is borderline enough for just the coach.
Manufacturers use this as their entry level combo to meet a price point and that is all.

Turning up the 6.7 to the 360/800 tune with a 2500 pulling 28-30,000lbs is just a time bomb IMO, only question is how long is the fuse.
Allison 2500MH is rated at max 700ft lbs input torque with SEM shift energy management. W/O SEM it is derated to 575ft lbs
For comparison the next step up is the 3000MH at 1250lbs (W/O SEM) now that is a trans built to pull!
If you dont pull the mountains and keep the converter locked and temps down it may go for a while.
One A Day seems to be making it work.
I will say he speaks the truth the 6.7 even at 360/800 will not like pulling the weight of your coach and an additional 10-12K
I look at diesels like lithium batteries they go full tilt until you get to the limit and then they quit.

TOWING CAPACITY-very misleading
Power is never really factored into the towing capacity, mfr slaps on a 10,000lb hitch assy and says it is rated to tow 10K
Until your 28,000 GVWR chassis crosses the scales loaded at 23,000, your 10k just went to 5K

But like assholes we all have one and I have my popcorn ready.

Turn that bitch up and let her rip buttercup
No guts no glory
Only time will tell

I mean all of this in good fun, I have no room to talk. I have turned up every diesel I have owned and ripped through more transmissions than i will admit
I have snapped 300M armament input shafts, fried more clutch paks than french fries at mcdonalds, and warped more clutch hubs and drums than minds on LSD!
But I get to brag around the campfire, if I make it there, I am hauling 5000 and towing 9500 through the sierras with 400Hp and 1100lbs of torque EGTS at 1350 on a 5.9 cummins and my 3rd 47RE in 87,000 miles. Its just your kids MONEY!

And as a result I sold my coach tonight and we have a tag Entegra Anthem coming with Cummins 8.9 liter and the Allison 3000 and side radiator, better equipped for towing, the Seneca wasn’t gonna last for long towing what we tow.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

And as a result I sold my coach tonight and we have a tag Entegra Anthem coming with Cummins 8.9 liter and the Allison 3000 and side radiator, better equipped for towing, the Seneca wasn’t gonna last for long towing what we tow.
View attachment 1009810

you are liv'n the dream my friend..

 

[v6toy4x]

And as a result I sold my coach tonight and we have a tag Entegra Anthem coming with Cummins 8.9 liter and the Allison 3000 and side radiator, better equipped for towing, the Seneca wasn’t gonna last for long towing what we tow.
View attachment 1009810

NICE, there is no doubt even thought the numbers arent way more than the 360/800 the torques is ALL right off idle they are frikin beasts!

My "hope" is a short 32'ish, superC with the L9 or DD13
But the manufacturers want to size the motorhome relative to the power, bigger motor-huger-motorhome.

Country coach used to have a 34' non slide with the old cummins 425hp I think it was N12??? dont remember
That would be a holy grail if it had a slide.

Congrats and enjoy, i am glad you moved on from the seneca considering towing your daytona!

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Doesn’t matter on miles, it just has to be in service for 5 years. Cummins will plug it in and be able to tell you that date, under 5 years they won’t do the upgrade. Well they will but it costs considerably more, like $2500, something to do with the DOT and what they have to do paperwork wise when it’s within 5 years. They explained it to me, complicated, lots of regulatory hoops they have to jump through less than 5, after 5 there are none so it’s just the cost of their labor to do it.

here's what they told me,... they sell the same motor and price it by the hp... more hp + more warrany repairs, they also said this, they buy the trans by the torque used...so they can't put more torque to the trans than what it's rated for,... also on a pusher, limit is also radiator size...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

NICE, there is no doubt even thought the numbers arent way more than the 360/800 the torques is ALL right off idle they are frikin beasts!

My "hope" is a short 32'ish, superC with the L9 or DD13
But the manufacturers want to size the motorhome relative to the power, bigger motor-huger-motorhome.

Country coach used to have a 34' non slide with the old cummins 425hp I think it was N12??? dont remember
That would be a holy grail if it had a slide.

Congrats and enjoy, i am glad you moved on from the seneca considering towing your daytona!

I had the 33' alpine with 400 hp/1200tq.. 40,000lb gwcr