Need Advise On Solar Lease

[HPBoats83]

Were in the market for a new to us house an we are seeing more and more houses with solar leases and are having a hard time getting away from them. I’ve gone the route of trying to make the seller pay off solar as part of the deal but it hasn’t worked out on the past few. Latest house has a 32 panel system roughly 7.8-9k from what I can figure that was only installed about 3 years ago. My question is, what are the pros (if any) to having a solar system and the cons?

 

[Shrub Lurker]

Tell the seller to take it with em!

 

[f12517]

I wouldn't take over a solar lease. And when I sell my house I'm not eating the solar system that I installed. Clearly trying to force the seller to eat it hasn't worked. Just as a pool adds value to a house so does a well designed and installed solar system. My house is significantly more efficient to operate than others in my neighborhood due to the system and that has value.

 

[HPBoats83]

Tell the seller to take it with em!

I tried that too

 

[WhatExit?]

Walk or run...


away from a house with a solar lease

 

[Classic Daycruiser]

And when I sell my house I'm not eating the solar system that I installed.

Good luck with that.

 

[JayBreww]

I’m in the same boat. Waiting to hear back from the seller. Fortunately the house has been on the market for months and the owners already moved to Montana.


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[02HoWaRd26]

I have a solar lease on my house. I spent months researching and found the lease to be the best bet for me. My lease is based off a ten year guarantee number at 0.09$ a kWh. So i would’ve paid 35k for my system but instead i pay 104$ a month for 20 years. Mathematics says I’m already ahead, plus I’m making more than the guarantee as that guarantee is based off the number they say I’ll be positive to be making after the 120th month.

Our going rate is 0.128$ a kWh and my lease is at 0.09$ at the tenth year.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

Depends on what kind of financing was used. If HERO or PACE loan, it has to be paid by seller if you are financing the property. PPA is easy to take over and doesn't count towards your debt to income. I have had solar on my last 2 houses and my current system (3kw) is paid off. My bill for 12 months last year on a 3200 square foot house with 2 a/c's and kids that leave every freaking light on, in Murrieta, was $776.

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[Classic Daycruiser]

kids that leave every freaking light on, in Murrieta.
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You're sounding like your dad. Stop it!

 

[HPBoats83]

Depends on what kind of financing was used. If HERO or PACE loan, it has to be paid by seller if you are financing the property. PPA is easy to take over and doesn't count towards your debt to income. I have had solar on my last 2 houses and my current system (3kw) is paid off. My bill for 12 months last year on a 3200 square foot house with 2 a/c's and kids that leave every freaking light on, in Murrieta, was $776.

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I don’t believe this was HERO or PACE but I’m waiting to see the contract before I make an offer. The last one I just lost was in Murrieta and done through Sun Run Solar, kind of bummed I lost that one but they were upside down on that system in my opinion. They had a payoff of $23,000 on a 3.8K system. I’ve talked to a couple people about installing a new 5K system and they said it would cost roughly $17-$20,000 to buy and install.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

I'd most definitely look at the lease specs prior to making a decision. Some of the leases if seen from places like Sunrun are a joke!

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[Angler]

Contact Basilhayden Here on the boards. He owns Palomar Solar (advertiser here), he can answer all of your questions..

 

[whipple charged]

We did solar 26 LG panels on back side of roof on tilt system so you cant see from front yard..
(Best look ever). We got in before they got rid of credit back on what we put back into system. plus the one time 30% back on total cost on taxes... we looked at HERO program but decided to just buy it out right.. just got 3rd year bill was $37 for the entire year.
So for last 3 years we are under $200.00 dlrs.. neighbor did HERO program same time as us and just paid it off... As for leased solar really read the paper work on it..

As to it adding value to house.. you bet will ask more money or take system with us to new house..

 

[2Driver]

I ask myself this.

How old is the roof? How many holes did the solar company put through the roof for the panels?

When you get tired of patching leaks figure out how much it will cost to put a new roof on with the infrastructure in the way.

How obsolete will the whole thing be at it’s lease half-life let alone 2 decades from now.

IMO add some insulation and move on.

 

[Mandelon]

Why a problem with a lease? You get almost all the power you need for a lower monthly price than the power company charges? You pay $150 a month instead of $350 a month.

How is that a bad thing?

 

[HPBoats83]

Why a problem with a lease? You get almost all the power you need for a lower monthly price than the power company charges? You pay $150 a month instead of $350 a month.

How is that a bad thing?

I’m not terribly opposed to it; however, I’m trying to figure out what other people have learned through their experiences. For instance, if I buy this house I have to “apply” to take over the lease, does that go on my credit as debt for the next 16 years?

 

[Paul65k]

It really depends......in most cases the solar leases are just NOT a good deal. I know some on here seem to think so and it might be "Better" than not having one, the bottom line is that as a buyer you are taking on someone else's personal liability (in most cases). The previous buyer may or may not have received the 30% federal tax credit but the new buyer definitely is NOT, that was a one time only benefit on a new install!!

I was on the Arizona Association of Realtors committee that drafted the new Solar addendum used throughout the state with all sales of homes with leased solar installed now and know of what I speak. Why would a new buyer take on a sellers depreciating personal liability......take the cost of a replacement system, less the 30% tax credit then depreciate the system 15% 1st year 10% second year and 5% every year after that......when you do the math that is likely the true value of that solar system on the roof.......even though every seller will tell you it's a $35K system (or whatever number they use).

In a 4 year old solar system example a $35K system is probably only worth ~$16K in today's dollars. These numbers are only accurate IF AND ONLY IF your lease has you paying your utility directly.........if the lease is one of those that offer you a discount on the then going rate and you pay the leasing company for your electricity you not only need to walk away from that house you need to RUN!!!

My .02

 

[BasilHayden]

In my opinion, as I have stated before, the worst way to purchase solar is via a lease. That said it doesnt mean that it still cant make sense in the right case. As Mandeleon asked if you are paying the lease company less than you are paying the utility how can that be bad. But is the OP asking about contracting a new system for his home or business here, no, In this case the math is different than in determining whethert obuy or lease. If the decision is buy or lease the answer will almost always be buy.

But he wants to buy a house where someone else already made the decision. Now the question becomes more muddled. The last house he was looking at the system could have saved him money on his utilities, that I have no doubt, however the contract was severely upside down, it still had a payoff of 23k on a system that at best was worth 12k. Now the decision has to be is it worth it for him to take over that liability, that he will surely be asked to pay off when he sells and tries to head to the desert in a few years.

I am always willing to look at your scenario and give you my opinion, if you are in the market for a new system give me a call and let me show you why buy rather than lease is going to be your best bet.

 

[King295]

I don’t believe this was HERO or PACE but I’m waiting to see the contract before I make an offer. The last one I just lost was in Murrieta and done through Sun Run Solar, kind of bummed I lost that one but they were upside down on that system in my opinion. They had a payoff of $23,000 on a 3.8K system. I’ve talked to a couple people about installing a new 5K system and they said it would cost roughly $17-$20,000 to buy and install.

My sister in law and her husband are trying to sell their house in Murrieta with a solar lease. I don't think they understand the process but I'm not throwing my hat in the ring. They just declined to pay off the solar from a prospective buyer. The house you were looking at didn't happen to have a custom tree house did it?

 

[socal0487]

Were in the market for a new to us house an we are seeing more and more houses with solar leases and are having a hard time getting away from them. I’ve gone the route of trying to make the seller pay off solar as part of the deal but it hasn’t worked out on the past few. Latest house has a 32 panel system roughly 7.8-9k from what I can figure that was only installed about 3 years ago. My question is, what are the pros (if any) to having a solar system and the cons?

I was in the same boat 2 years ago when I bought my house. Previous owner had a PPA with Vivint Solar that was less than a year old. Basically brand new system. Didn’t know anything about solar so I did as much research as I could while i was in escrow. After reading the contract the owner signed, I knew it was not a good deal for me.

First off they put 34 panels (8.5kw) system on this house. May have been a good size for them but I’m a single guy living in my house and I’m gone half the month with my job so I won’t be using all that electricity. Here’s where all the bad things that I found about the deal. If you absorb the PPA contract, now it’s all on you. There’s a lean on your house for it. If you ever were to sell the home, now you could potentially be losing buyers who don’t want to conform to the contract. Secondly, there’s a fixed rate you pay for all the energy you produced regardless if you use it or not. So say your panels produce 700 kw last month but you only used 500kw. Guess what you’re paying 700 times your fixed rate.

What I wasn’t able to get a clear answer with was as the system gets older, problems arise with panels/inverters. Are the companies still going to be there to help you? Are they still in business or have they met the break even point with your system that there customer service become non existent and now your stuck dealing with the problem.

What I ended up doing was buying the system out. I knew the owners were moving out of state and had to act quickly. I dragged my feet to the 11th hour on all contingencies. By the time we were 2-3 weeks in I knew they weren’t able to cancel out of the contract, place it back on market and go through another full escrow. So there hands were tied. The purchase price from Vivint was 34000 (they inflate it substantially). I had the buyers do a 20000 dollar reduction in purchase price of the home solely for the solar. So I basically got the system for 14000. But going forward my property taxes, insurance, mortgage etc. is lower for the next 30 years. It is working for me really well.

As others have stated, contact basilhayden. He’s helped me out tremendously with mine.

 

[HPBoats83]

My sister in law and her husband are trying to sell their house in Murrieta with a solar lease. I don't think they understand the process but I'm not throwing my hat in the ring. They just declined to pay off the solar from a prospective buyer. The house you were looking at didn't happen to have a custom tree house did it?

Haha has yes


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[Big Chorizo]

Were in the market for a new to us house an we are seeing more and more houses with solar leases and are having a hard time getting away from them. I’ve gone the route of trying to make the seller pay off solar as part of the deal but it hasn’t worked out on the past few. Latest house has a 32 panel system roughly 7.8-9k from what I can figure that was only installed about 3 years ago. My question is, what are the pros (if any) to having a solar system and the cons?

The pros, not having to pay for power and having a predictable flat rate during the summer (if you are financing it). And I would only finance don't lease, you want to own the system. I would not take over a lease either, chances are the lease balance far exceeds the value of the installed system. I paid $15k for a 4.8kw system 3 years ago and financed the balance through a solar program from a credit union. Prices are even better now then when I bought, there's too may good financing options out there. https://www.energysage.com/ This is an excellent website where you can get competitive quotes and options in your area. Lots of good information too. Hope this helps.

 

[BasilHayden]

The pros, not having to pay for power and having a predictable flat rate during the summer (if you are financing it). And I would only finance don't lease, you want to own the system. I would not take over a lease either, chances are the lease balance far exceeds the value of the installed system. I paid $15k for a 4.8kw system 3 years ago and financed the balance through a solar program from a credit union. Prices are even better now then when I bought, there's too may good financing options out there. https://www.energysage.com/ This is an excellent website where you can get competitive quotes and options in your area. Lots of good information too. Hope this helps.

BC,
I appreciate your experience, but energysage is crap. You dont get true quotes you get bottom of the barrel feeders and lowball quotes that do not look at your house in detail nor do they know how to right size a system. Once you sign and your 3 day recision is up they will send someone to write the change order for your house. Yes I am biased, but as with everything else in life, if you want crap go with a low ball offer. There are a few quality reputable pros in this business, we are one. If you want it done right and expect to be taken care of after the sale find us. If you want crap and to be orphaned after the sale use a lead gen site. Yes they try to sell me their leads, its not worth our time as we know the quality of the lead. Our leads come from our referral program 70%, and our local advertising where we stress honesty and integrity, well and of course RDP, lol. I advertise here to support Dave, have we done deals for the community yes, but less than 1% of my sales have been from here.

Look at reviews on anyone you look at, see who you are working with!

 

[whipple charged]

I ask myself this.

How old is the roof? How many holes did the solar company put through the roof for the panels?

When you get tired of patching leaks figure out how much it will cost to put a new roof on with the infrastructure in the way.

How obsolete will the whole thing be at it’s lease half-life let alone 2 decades from now.

IMO add some insulation and move on.

argee with you ... as to age of system and how its working and whats need to take off roof and fix any holes etc.. and all that will be considered
we are consider selling soon and system is only 3 years.. in my opinion new buyer would be dumb not to buy system with house.. theres no lease no lein bought out right owned system..
we have seen lots of leases and have friends that signed up to one and were a big rip off and they would of been better to beg borrow loan HERO program or anything else then signing that lease...
so please read all the paperwork on that lease before you move forward with purchase of a home with it..

 

[BasilHayden]

I ask myself this.

How old is the roof? How many holes did the solar company put through the roof for the panels?

When you get tired of patching leaks figure out how much it will cost to put a new roof on with the infrastructure in the way.

How obsolete will the whole thing be at it’s lease half-life let alone 2 decades from now.

IMO add some insulation and move on.

Another reason to know who you are hiring, who will do the work? More than half the solar companies out there dont do their own work, lowest bidder gets the job, how many of them are even licenced? This is also why we have recently added roofing to our company, I hired/acquired a long time roofer in San Diego with an excelent rep. No more finger pointing between roofing and solar. We have been working for years with this contractor as well as a couple others, but in the end why give away 50 roofs a year to others when we can add this to our company. Went official just a few weeks ago, but already contracted 6 whole roof deals, in addition to their solar needs.

Unfortunately we are also getting the calls from orphaned solar buyers who now realize the bargain wasnt so much due to needed major roof repairs, and yes it costs 2-4k for the solar R&R so we can get to the roof and fix the butchery. Proud of our reputation and how we treat customers not just year 1, but also year 11 and counting.

 

[BasilHayden]

argee with you ... as to age of system and how its working and whats need to take off roof and fix any holes etc.. and all that will be considered
we are consider selling soon and system is only 3 years.. in my opinion new buyer would be dumb not to buy system with house.. theres no lease no lein bought out right owned system..
we have seen lots of leases and have friends that signed up to one and were a big rip off and they would of been better to beg borrow loan HERO program or anything else then signing that lease...
so please read all the paperwork on that lease before you move forward with purchase of a home with it..

Problem is new signers never get to see the paperwork before they sent a docusign and then told no need to read the 45 pages, signatures are needed on 1, 15, 32, and 45, we will send you a complete contract for your files when the job is done. No joke, we see it everyday. Most contracts dont even list the equipment purchased, merely a minimum system size. Hmm sure you are getting top quality.

 

[BHC Vic]

In my opinion, as I have stated before, the worst way to purchase solar is via a lease. That said it doesnt mean that it still cant make sense in the right case. As Mandeleon asked if you are paying the lease company less than you are paying the utility how can that be bad. But is the OP asking about contracting a new system for his home or business here, no, In this case the math is different than in determining whethert obuy or lease. If the decision is buy or lease the answer will almost always be buy.

But he wants to buy a house where someone else already made the decision. Now the question becomes more muddled. The last house he was looking at the system could have saved him money on his utilities, that I have no doubt, however the contract was severely upside down, it still had a payoff of 23k on a system that at best was worth 12k. Now the decision has to be is it worth it for him to take over that liability, that he will surely be asked to pay off when he sells and tries to head to the desert in a few years.

I am always willing to look at your scenario and give you my opinion, if you are in the market for a new system give me a call and let me show you why buy rather than lease is going to be your best bet.

Is the credit still going? I called a while back and left a message but I’ve been super busy and then kind of sick. We want to get a price for our norco place but I thought the credit was still going on. If you get a chance later. Address is 2553 Bronco lane norco ca 92860. Bigger house than chino

 

[BasilHayden]

Credit is still, 30% this tear, then drops to 26% next year. I will get in touch for some info via the office Vic

 

[Big Chorizo]

BC,
I appreciate your experience, but energysage is crap. You dont get true quotes you get bottom of the barrel feeders and lowball quotes that do not look at your house in detail nor do they know how to right size a system. Once you sign and your 3 day recision is up they will send someone to write the change order for your house. Yes I am biased, but as with everything else in life, if you want crap go with a low ball offer. There are a few quality reputable pros in this business, we are one. If you want it done right and expect to be taken care of after the sale find us. If you want crap and to be orphaned after the sale use a lead gen site. Yes they try to sell me their leads, its not worth our time as we know the quality of the lead. Our leads come from our referral program 70%, and our local advertising where we stress honesty and integrity, well and of course RDP, lol. I advertise here to support Dave, have we done deals for the community yes, but less than 1% of my sales have been from here.

Look at reviews on anyone you look at, see who you are working with!

I completely agree with your previous post and as a GC, I've dealt with a lot of great solar companies as well as some shady. As to Energy Sage, you will find some good and some bad, that's why its always good to get multiple quotes regardless. I was fooling around with the website a few years ago and figured I would give it a shot just for fun. I received competitive quotes from 2 of the biggest solar companies in So Cal. Does it mean they are the best, absolutely not. Everyone must still do their diligence making sure they are moving forward with a quality company that's best for them.

 

[Justfishing]

Does anyone ever do an energy audit to determine what makes the best sense as far whether other things are more cost effective

I have taken classes on energy efficiency and have a good understanding of the field. It may not be as impressive to say I spent $10k on energy efficiency but it may well save more and not require maintenance. Saving/ not needing can be cheaper and providing other benefits that aren't measurements by $.

This here is a great example. Aero barrier runs between $1-2 a square foot of the home. A 2,000 SF home would cost 2-4k.

Mandaly homes was building hers 50 rated homes in Phoenix. The pv system needed was $30k. A code home is a hers 70 and needs a $50k. You can see a $20k reduction.

Now take the mandalay home with a hers 50. Use the aero barrier system to air seal and you get to a hers 0 for a few thousand $. The pv system needed is now $8k or $22k less than the same house without the higher level of air sealing. Added benefits of air sealing include comfort, less dust and keeping bugs out.

Aero barrier can be used in any vacant house, new or used. It is not limited to the construction phase but I think that is the best time to use.

Things to think about.