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Need some help with old Saginaw power steering

spectra3279

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So ready to get my boat back on the water for some sea trials. Start my boat in the yard to make sure everything is working. No power steering.

I had the whole transom steering assembly taken apart for cleaning and painting. Never took valve apart though. Did that a few years ago. Steering moves both left and right but makes no difference in effort required whether the boat is running or shut off. It looks like the valve isn't moving enough to open based on direction of movement. But I don't know if that is it. I do have fluid coming out of hardline going to the cylinder, I cracked it loose to verify it.

What am I missing here besides power assist?

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spectra3279

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:p

I was gonna suggest he get in touch with All Star in El Monte. All they do is power steering anymore. They have been around for decades.
Well, that would be good but that would be a long haul for them to check out.

@obnoxious001 motors are running great and I just found out the motors were dynoed with the packing screw in for the secondaries. Everything was opening at the same time. I may have to adjust the jets due to being to lean

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spectra3279

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Anybody got any good troubleshooting guides

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rivermobster

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Well, that would be good but that would be a long haul for them to check out.

@obnoxious001 motors are running great and I just found out the motors were dynoed with the packing screw in for the secondaries. Everything was opening at the same time. I may have to adjust the jets due to being to lean

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Packing screws?? What kinna carb? What kinna secondaries? Got a pics?

I'm think'n MAYBE the guy that did the dyno put the screws there, if they are vacumm secondaries...
 

rivermobster

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Anybody got any good troubleshooting guides

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IF everything worked properly before the repair, I'd be looking for some swapped lines. Do you have pics of the system before they removed everything?
 

spectra3279

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IF everything worked properly before the repair, I'd be looking for some swapped lines. Do you have pics of the system before they removed everything?
Can't swap the lines as they are different sizes. And I'm the one that did it so I'm trying to figure out what I did wrong.

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spectra3279

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Packing screws?? What kinna carb? What kinna secondaries? Got a pics?

I'm think'n MAYBE the guy that did the dyno put the screws there, if they are vacumm secondaries...
They are vacuum secondaries. They are holley 770 avengers. Pretty sure he didn't as I was there with him. But it is possible.

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spectra3279

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IF everything worked properly before the repair, I'd be looking for some swapped lines. Do you have pics of the system before they removed everything?
Here is a pic of one like it. Ill get pics of mine tomorrow.
004.jpg


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rivermobster

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They are vacuum secondaries. They are holley 770 avengers. Pretty sure he didn't as I was there with him. But it is possible.

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Strange carb for a boat. I wouldn't change anything that was the way it was on the dyno.
 

spectra3279

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Strange carb for a boat. I wouldn't change anything that was the way it was on the dyno.

Already removed them. But won't be hard to put them back. I assumed it was packing so they didn't bounce around. Also, the secondaries moved with the primaries so all 4 operated as one. The moment the primaries started to open, so did the seondaries.


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rivermobster

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Already removed them. But won't be hard to put them back. I assumed it was packing so they didn't bounce around. Also, the secondaries moved with the primaries so all 4 operated as one. The moment the primaries started to open, so did the seondaries.


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Understood. That's not exactly best practices, but, if it was dyno'd that way, leave it that way. The tuner could have compensated with a monster acel pump and squirter?

*shrug*
 

spectra3279

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Understood. That's not exactly best practices, but, if it was dyno'd that way, leave it that way. The tuner could have compensated with a monster acel pump and squirter?

*shrug*
He never changed anything in the carb. Only adjusted the air fuel and the idle.

The port motor was idling on the secondaries not the primaries. This is also what made me think packing screws

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namba860

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I’m pretty sure u have a new old stock Sagina P/S valve in stock
 

rivermobster

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He never changed anything in the carb. Only adjusted the air fuel and the idle.

The port motor was idling on the secondaries not the primaries. This is also what made me think packing screws

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Holly carbs do not come with any kind of screw in the secondaries. That's an old (dumb) hot rodder trick.

I would suggest you find someone local to you to tune both engines. Someone that can diagnose the PS as well.

Good luck!
 

spectra3279

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Holly carbs do not come with any kind of screw in the secondaries. That's an old (dumb) hot rodder trick.

I would suggest you find someone local to you to tune both engines. Someone that can diagnose the PS as well.

Good luck!
That I have a buddy that races and knows holleys really well. I'm also friends with one of holleys reps.

So what does tying the secondaries to the primaries do?

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rivermobster

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That I have a buddy that races and knows holleys really well. I'm also friends with one of holleys reps.

So what does tying the secondaries to the primaries do?

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Well normally it creates a huge flat spot (bog) in the power band.

When the air flow through the venturies finally compensates for the flat spot, you feel the power come on.

Kinna like coming on the pipe with a 2 stroke.

Truth is, you're not feeling the power come on, your feeling the lack of power going away.

Now being this particular set up you have is in a heavy ocean boat, you are unlikely to notice any of this. That is until the engine leans out and melts.

The flat spot Could possibly be compensated for with major modifications to the whole accel pump system, but I sure wouldn't advise it.

Vacuum secondary carbs were not designed to be used like this. So you have an interesting situation on your hands.

One would think a dyno operator would have rectified this situation. Or at least addressed it with you while it was on the dyno.

But if it wasn't actually tuned, and it was just ran to check for leaks and stuff, I can see how this could possibly been over looked.

Very strange if you ask me. You need someone local to sort it all out.
 

spectra3279

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Well normally it creates a huge flat spot (bog) in the power band.

When the air flow through the venturies finally compensates for the flat spot, you feel the power come on.

Kinna like coming on the pipe with a 2 stroke.

Truth is, you're not feeling the power come on, your feeling the lack of power going away.

Now being this particular set up you have is in a heavy ocean boat, you are unlikely to notice any of this. That is until the engine leans out and melts.

The flat spot Could possibly be compensated for with major modifications to the whole accel pump system, but I sure wouldn't advise it.

Vacuum secondary carbs were not designed to be used like this. So you have an interesting situation on your hands.

One would think a dyno operator would have rectified this situation. Or at least addressed it with you while it was on the dyno.

But if it wasn't actually tuned, and it was just ran to check for leaks and stuff, I can see how this could possibly been over looked.

Very strange if you ask me. You need someone local to sort it all out.
Yep. Gonna have that done.

Ima also gonna call the dyno guy tomorrow. It had pulls done so I still don't think he did it but I will verify. Funny though, it didn't bog on the dyno or running on the trailer.

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spectra3279

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spectra3279

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Steering is fixed. Seems something in valve was stuck. When I undid the cable based on troubleshooting steps. I moved the valve. The drives moved slow then a bang and they moved correctly.

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SBMech

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Vacuum secondary Hollys are just that, it only opens the secondaries when there is enough intake vacuum to open them.

If there was something stuck in the linkage for a max power pull, ok then.

They are not double pumpers with mechanical control and adjustment over the secondaries. They are designed to get maximum efficiency while providing similar power for automatic/transmission power train setups.

You should certainly check with whomever set it up or dyno'd it...I would check with both if the secondaries are tied mechanically to the primaries. You can do it, but it's a jimmy rig and certainly won't work very well except for full throttle runs.
 

spectra3279

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Vacuum secondary Hollys are just that, it only opens the secondaries when there is enough intake vacuum to open them.

If there was something stuck in the linkage for a max power pull, ok then.

They are not double pumpers with mechanical control and adjustment over the secondaries. They are designed to get maximum efficiency while providing similar power for automatic/transmission power train setups.

You should certainly check with whomever set it up or dyno'd it...I would check with both if the secondaries are tied mechanically to the primaries. You can do it, but it's a jimmy rig and certainly won't work very well except for full throttle runs.
I did and tres said he added them cause on the dyno the secondaries don't always open on time. He said I can remove them.

Thanks

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SBMech

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I did and tres said he added them cause on the dyno the secondaries don't always open on time. He said I can remove them.

Thanks

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Just make sure the actual TUNE was done on it with someone who knows how to jet/spring/diaphram those vacuum hollies....

You don't want them set up for full HP Pulls....you want them set up for actual use.
 

spectra3279

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Just make sure the actual TUNE was done on it with someone who knows how to jet/spring/diaphram those vacuum hollies....

You don't want them set up for full HP Pulls....you want them set up for actual use.
Yep. Got a friend that is really good with Holly's. Once we get it in the water we can then do some runs and read the plugs.

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