• Welcome to River Dave's Place

New boat 22 Vaughn

Discussion in 'V-Drives' started by jstnoc, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. tony

    tony Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    880
    Likes Received:
    170
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    I also missed a few seasons myself and know how much you must miss it! Looking forward to seeing you getting this boat dialed in I'm certain it's going to meet your expectations... Tony
     
    jstnoc likes this.
  2. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Here are some photos from last weekend - Needles boat / car show. This is the first time I have put her in the water and couldn't be happier with this boat. We ran her from Pirates Cove to the sandbar back up to needles and back to Pirates Cove. IMG_2073.jpg IMG_2071.jpg IMG_2075.jpg IMG_2082.jpg IMG_2085.jpg IMG_2087.jpg IMG_2179.jpg
     
  3. BUSTI

    BUSTI Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,603
    Likes Received:
    628
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    This really came out nice. Great job. The boat looks great running.
     
    jstnoc likes this.
  4. GregG

    GregG Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    992
    Likes Received:
    92
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Great to see a Vaughn 22 saved. One cool boat !
     
    jstnoc and TBulger like this.
  5. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Had some vibration in the boat so I checked the V-drive and one of the mounts was loose connected to the stringer. Ended up being a bad stringer from an improper floor drain. Pats Fiberglass installed a new stringer and floor on one side of the boat. Replaced one bulk and found out that the boat was built very stout with fully wrapped inner and outer stringers. I'm filling all vdrive/trans water line holes in the bottom of the boat also.
     
  6. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    While the vdrive was out I went ahead and had Casale go through it. I went ahead and had the cases powder coated, caps polished, and all stainless fasteners. It came out really nice!
     
  7. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Image1466917947.995655.jpg
     
    Backlash and Kylemenz1 like this.
  8. Kylemenz1

    Kylemenz1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,073
    Likes Received:
    837
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    looks great!!
     
    jstnoc likes this.
  9. obnoxious001

    obnoxious001 Engine building character

    Messages:
    5,030
    Likes Received:
    1,589
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    So what gear was in it, and did you change to something that suits that engine a bit better?
     
  10. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Has 15's in it. Since this is a one off boat I imagine I will have to resort to trial and error for the right gear and prop. I haven't had the chance to get the prop off to see what I have. I would think 750hp should be more than enough to spin 15's.
     
  11. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Looking for some advise on my setup before I put the new motor in. Here's what I know. I ran her at the river back in April and got these numbers which I wasn't thrilled with hence the new power. 3800 rpm 54mph GPS. From the pictures we took of the boat running it looks like the boat runs wet. With the old motor I could not turn any more rpm. The old motor was a 454 12:1 with big cam est. 400-425hp. I have 15 gears c500 and a cut down 12x15 prop.

    I have a new motor ready to drop in. 588 NA dyno'd at 750hp with a ton of torque throughout operating rpm range.

    Took some measurements today
    Drop thru strut seems big
    Strut barrel is 15 long
    Strut at bottom of boat is 9.5 long
    Barrel center to bottom 6 3/4
    Strut to transom 22
    Propshaft end to transom 17
    Propshaft center to bottom of boat 7.5
    Prop ear to bottom 1 5/8
    The prop says 12x15 but when I measured it seems cut down a bit. From center to ear 5 3/4 so 11.5 x 15.
    I also have a surface mount whip strut. From the numbers above I get an estimated strut angle of 8.53 degrees.

    I would like to know if the strut seams to be placed in the correct location for my boat. I would like to carry the nose a bit and get more of the boat out of the water. Would be interesting to see some measurements of other large fast cruisers. Thanks for the help!
     
  12. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Image1467701476.857969.jpg
    Image1467701003.968922.jpg Image1467701012.726043.jpg Image1467701021.299348.jpg
     
  13. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Boat is fully de-rigged waiting to have some bottom work done along with regel and new rigging.
     
  14. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    IMG_4236.jpg IMG_4235.jpg

    New Livorsi gauges and custom recessed bezels.
     
  15. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    I was able to get six transom blocks exactly the size I wanted. These are 6 inch blocks and should look nice on the back of the boat. IMG_4898.jpg
     
  16. lenmann

    lenmann Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    323
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    The transom blocks look great, where did you get them?
     
  17. jmeads

    jmeads Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    78
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    X 2
     
  18. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    GT had some left over from an old project. Bergeron has a couple custom sets also. One set of 5's and another set of 10's. The 5's are nicely done but I wanted a little bigger since there is a lot of transom on my boat.
     
  19. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    I decided to go with a Keith Eickert single stage water pump so that I wasn't limited on water flow. With a little mounting modification and a custom pulley I'll be able to use this with my direct drive alternator mount. IMG_4728.jpg

    Disassembled the presto alternator and polished the cases.

    IMG_4888.jpg

    Ordered a new clay cams fuel pump. Cleaned it up a bit.

    IMG_4727.jpg
     
  20. tony

    tony Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    880
    Likes Received:
    170
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Looking forward to seeing it come together... Nice parts
     
  21. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Here are the 5' from Bergeron. I think they are a half inch thicker than standard.

    IMG_4920.JPG
     
  22. vdcruiser

    vdcruiser Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    118
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Might be a little late for you to make changes now, but I just read through this thread and saw where you had questions about the strut location and angle. When I redid the strut on my 21' Howard, I had Bergeron make me a new strut and he recommended a 7.5 deg strut and he had me to mount it with the barrel 24" from the transom and its designed so that the tip of the prop blade is about 5/8" from the bottom of the boat. With this setup the center plate of the V drive is 110" from the transom and the boat does carry the bow nicely and will run 100 + mph with my blown 548 BBC.
     
    jstnoc likes this.
  23. AzGeo

    AzGeo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,296
    Likes Received:
    7,885
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    As I recall the Vaughn bottom has a nice sharp 'entry and keel', but no strakes down near that keel line . So the gross weight does not have a 'lifting strakes' to get the boat 'on top' .

    I have tried to describe this same problem to "Mr Daytona", about his Dana 22', and "Mr Scapegoat" about his 20.5 Eliminator, in the past .

    Similar to the Eliminator 20.5 that is a great jet ,but 'rolls to one side' as a V-drive . (without a large delta pad)

    With the first set of strakes so high up the V-section, it's pushing 20% of the entire hull bottom THRU the water, rather than 'skimming across the top' of the water . I'm 'guestimating', 3800 square inches down to 1500 square inches of wetted surface area, but it is a lot of work .

    Your Howard/Spectra has a more rounded keel, and those center shorter strakes, down low near the keel that lift the front end. When you get above 100 MPH then you are on the 'rounded tail' with no strakes/stability . That's where 'extending those strakes' will help your control . (re-balance too)

    "At 7.5 degrees". IF it had 2 new strakes added, one on each side, half way between the keel and the original first strakes, ending about 3' from the transom, I would have the 'motor T-400' with the prop directly under the 'block web' between cylinders #2 and #4 . That would make that motor plate (aprox) 15" from the transom at it's bottom, not on top of the stringers . (transom angle)

    IMO, this would make it run 'it's best' .

    BUT, it's just my opinion, and the reason I did not build a V-drive Vaughn for my customer back in the 1980's . ..........
     
    jstnoc likes this.
  24. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Good info from both!! Thank you. I ran my measurements by Bergeron and he said it seemed setup correct. I also found a 22 schiada build sheet with all measurement specs and my setup was very close. I am thinking about lengthening the center lifting strakes a bit. The Vaughn definitely has a sharp keel and entry that's why I bought it. I wanted a smoother ride through the rough stuff and was not planning on hitting the century mark. A solid 75-80 is sufficient. 2015-12-23 21.58.51.jpg
     
  25. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Using a enderle bypass valve instead of a regulator per clay smith recommendation. I came up with a nice 180 back to my fuel filter head.

    IMG_5044.jpg

    Still figuring out the water pump but it looks like it will fit well with minimal modifications.

    IMG_5048.jpg
    IMG_5047.jpg
     
  26. HighVoltage329

    HighVoltage329 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    777
    Likes Received:
    437
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Looking good Mike. Should be a great boat.
     
  27. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Looking forward to getting her done and putting some hours on her. It's been a slow but steady process. How's the long block holding up?
     
  28. HighVoltage329

    HighVoltage329 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    777
    Likes Received:
    437
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Had it in my 240 Hallett with a Gentry turbo set up. Ran great. Barry freshened it up last year and it's going into my son Stoker. :eek
     
  29. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Going for the fastest stoker trophy? :) Should be a runner. Glad to hear you got some good life out of it.
     
  30. GregG

    GregG Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    992
    Likes Received:
    92
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    I forget now but when I was looking at a Vaughn I thought it was wider than 8' beam? Boat really looks nice :thumbsup
     
  31. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Water pump setup is coming together. Making some custom pulleys for correct setback and alternator mount clearance.


    IMG_5940.jpg
     
  32. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    The floors and dash needed to be replaced so while these guys were at it I decided to cap the transom for a cleaner look. Left the rest of the gel for a future date.

    IMG_5969.jpg
     
  33. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Some plate progress!

    IMG_0116.jpg
     
    beaverfab and milkmoney like this.
  34. Blownbillybob

    Blownbillybob Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    163
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    So I️ read this awhile back and understood about the Eliminator rolling to 1 side because of the radius keel and wasn’t sure what u meant about a Delta bottom ( I️ know what a Delta bottom is)

    So now I️ know jus seen a 20.5 with a Delta bottom pad for the first time didn’t know they had 2 different molds for those hulls??? All I’ve ever seen was the radius bottom boats!

    So that 1 ski racer 20.5 out of AZ that’s for sale for 40k looks like a radius bottom Was the delta pad a later design ? What was the deal with those hulls???
     
  35. AzGeo

    AzGeo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,296
    Likes Received:
    7,885
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009

    Thanks for being so observant . No, it's probably just one mold, and they placed an "insert" into the mold to create the "delta pad" .

    Remember, the delta pad is not only a "flat spot at the transom", but it also "creates false rocker", which helps keep the nose of the boat up .

    Many builders use "mold inserts", for many uses . Pad bottoms, steps, strut and plate relieves, air inlet vents, bimini top placements, etc ......

    I made my mold and delta pad inserts with .120" stainless flat sheet (struts were 3/8" aluminum). For example: you could fill a mold with water, creating whatever size and/or angle delta pad you wanted to make .

    Let's say you wanted 13" wide at the transom, and 1 degree of "rise", VS the keel line and the planing surfaces of the 4 strakes the boat rides on .

    Level the mold, Place tape on the bottom, where it meets the transom, for the width you want (13" wide). Then raise the bow by the number angle you wish to use . Then fill that "lower portion of the mold with water" up to the tape lines (wide) .

    This water will ACT like it is creating the delta pad and the "water mark left in the mold" (after drying), when the water is removed, will give you the shape and dimensions you will need to translate into a "mold insert" piece .

    Example; you could have the width at the transom of 13", and the ONE DEGREE of DELTA PAD ends up being water IN A "V" shape 56" or 60" or ? forward of the transom . When dry the mold will have a water line and a perfect shape/measurement of the insert you need to make .

    Once you have the "insert" made, you prep the molds, place the insert into the hull mold, secure it with 2 sided tape, bondo tabs, hot glue, and then CLAY the gaps between the new insert piece and the mold shape . IMO, .120" stainless is the "thinnest" (easy to clay, less sanding to finish), and most sturdy (holds it's shape), of the materials I have seen used over the years .

    I hope this is clear and I'm explaining it in terms that are understandable .

    The REASONS builders use "delta pads" varies, but their general use is for more straight line top speeds, and secondarily for control problems ...............

    Clear as mud, right ?
     
  36. Blownbillybob

    Blownbillybob Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    163
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
     
  37. Blownbillybob

    Blownbillybob Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    163
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Yup got it!!
    Pretty Kool trick. I like!!!

    So have u seen a Delta pad 20.5 Eliminator before or was that jus coincidence
     
  38. AzGeo

    AzGeo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,296
    Likes Received:
    7,885
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    I have seen a couple of them . As I remember long past history , Jan the owner of Lightning did a number of the V-drive installs for Eliminator .

    HE was STUCK with what they gave him , and he did his BEST to make all his work run good and long lasting .

    IMO, the ones with "delta pads" , ran the best . I have no "excuses" for those that do not have pads , but I do understand what their "problem" is .

    I offered an "estimate" for a guy with a ROUND BOTTOM 20'6" with a turbo V-drive ,about 6 years ago .

    I told him "$10K !" and I would do everything the boat needed, including rebuilding the weak turbo motor , up to what it would take to make the boat perform . (no hurry, doing it all myself, 12 to 18 months)

    He later called me a "backyard mechanic" , and was dismissive to my whole history of building boats .

    If he went to a SHOP that paid rent and ACTUALLY KNEW WHAT TO DO , he would have ended up paying more like $25K for the work I would have done .

    I cannot change history or the actions of others , but I can instruct you as to what you need for speed and control , in hulls like these .

    The hull work alone is about $3500/$4000 these days , so you need to budget your project for today's prices . The V-drive set up would be about $8000 , today , and the motor is up to you .
     
  39. oldschool

    oldschool Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,208
    Likes Received:
    5,488
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2007
    Does the "cruiser" you build have a delta pad? My Hallett SS 20'r has the round keel, but it doesn't act particularly spooky. Then again, this boat has only run in the mid 80's. Not looking to run faster in this boat. Are the Eliminator 20'r and Hallett 20'r essentially the same hull?
     
  40. AzGeo

    AzGeo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,296
    Likes Received:
    7,885
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Not the same at all from my memories .

    But, measuring the bottoms would be the definitive factor here .
     
  41. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Lots of good stuff AzGeo! I know a few boat models with delta pads which are definitely faster than without. Ive heard they loose a bit of ride quality and have a tendency to spin out easier???
     
  42. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    5A74CFE1-09F2-4257-8CFE-11D236149111.jpeg 8C2D714F-42A8-434D-9B69-E13CDB628AC2.jpeg
     
    Backlash and Croz like this.
  43. tony

    tony Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    880
    Likes Received:
    170
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
  44. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    . Yup it’s next to Andy’s boat
     
  45. tony

    tony Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    880
    Likes Received:
    170
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Looking forward to seeing your boat up and running!
     
  46. oldschool

    oldschool Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,208
    Likes Received:
    5,488
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2007
  47. norcalLmo

    norcalLmo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    584
    Likes Received:
    312
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Lookin' real good Justin - Nice work!!!! Keep posting updates and pics!!!!!
     
  48. bocco

    bocco Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    964
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    That sounds like a decent deal to me. I had a 20.5 that I loved but I got tired of the handling surprises. What frustrates me is that Eliminator should have seen the problem with the first one that they built and corrected it before selling a boat to a customer. Mine was rigged by Connelly and I guess they never actually drove one either.
     
    oldschool and AzGeo like this.
  49. jstnoc

    jstnoc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    55
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    A little progress! Finally set the block height, plate pads, and control arm location. IMG_0990.JPG


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  50. Deangang

    Deangang v-drive row member

    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    262
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Nice work! Love your build thread. When are you planning to get her wet again ? How long are your plates in the middle ?
     

Share This Page