WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

New boat 22 Vaughn

tony

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You are more than welcome anytime. Trying to make it out to Elsinore on New Years day. If not I will be getting her wet soon to dial in the carbs and then put the interior back in. Ive missed a few seasons but will have her river bound well before next summer.
I also missed a few seasons myself and know how much you must miss it! Looking forward to seeing you getting this boat dialed in I'm certain it's going to meet your expectations... Tony
 

jstnoc

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Here are some photos from last weekend - Needles boat / car show. This is the first time I have put her in the water and couldn't be happier with this boat. We ran her from Pirates Cove to the sandbar back up to needles and back to Pirates Cove. IMG_2073.jpg IMG_2071.jpg IMG_2075.jpg IMG_2082.jpg IMG_2085.jpg IMG_2087.jpg IMG_2179.jpg
 

BUSTI

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This really came out nice. Great job. The boat looks great running.
 

jstnoc

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Had some vibration in the boat so I checked the V-drive and one of the mounts was loose connected to the stringer. Ended up being a bad stringer from an improper floor drain. Pats Fiberglass installed a new stringer and floor on one side of the boat. Replaced one bulk and found out that the boat was built very stout with fully wrapped inner and outer stringers. I'm filling all vdrive/trans water line holes in the bottom of the boat also.
 

jstnoc

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While the vdrive was out I went ahead and had Casale go through it. I went ahead and had the cases powder coated, caps polished, and all stainless fasteners. It came out really nice!
 

obnoxious001

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While the vdrive was out I went ahead and had Casale go through it. I went ahead and had the cases powder coated, caps polished, and all stainless fasteners. It came out really nice!
So what gear was in it, and did you change to something that suits that engine a bit better?
 

jstnoc

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So what gear was in it, and did you change to something that suits that engine a bit better?
Has 15's in it. Since this is a one off boat I imagine I will have to resort to trial and error for the right gear and prop. I haven't had the chance to get the prop off to see what I have. I would think 750hp should be more than enough to spin 15's.
 

jstnoc

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Looking for some advise on my setup before I put the new motor in. Here's what I know. I ran her at the river back in April and got these numbers which I wasn't thrilled with hence the new power. 3800 rpm 54mph GPS. From the pictures we took of the boat running it looks like the boat runs wet. With the old motor I could not turn any more rpm. The old motor was a 454 12:1 with big cam est. 400-425hp. I have 15 gears c500 and a cut down 12x15 prop.

I have a new motor ready to drop in. 588 NA dyno'd at 750hp with a ton of torque throughout operating rpm range.

Took some measurements today
Drop thru strut seems big
Strut barrel is 15 long
Strut at bottom of boat is 9.5 long
Barrel center to bottom 6 3/4
Strut to transom 22
Propshaft end to transom 17
Propshaft center to bottom of boat 7.5
Prop ear to bottom 1 5/8
The prop says 12x15 but when I measured it seems cut down a bit. From center to ear 5 3/4 so 11.5 x 15.
I also have a surface mount whip strut. From the numbers above I get an estimated strut angle of 8.53 degrees.

I would like to know if the strut seams to be placed in the correct location for my boat. I would like to carry the nose a bit and get more of the boat out of the water. Would be interesting to see some measurements of other large fast cruisers. Thanks for the help!
 

jstnoc

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Boat is fully de-rigged waiting to have some bottom work done along with regel and new rigging.
 

jstnoc

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IMG_4236.jpg IMG_4235.jpg

New Livorsi gauges and custom recessed bezels.
 

jstnoc

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I was able to get six transom blocks exactly the size I wanted. These are 6 inch blocks and should look nice on the back of the boat. IMG_4898.jpg
 

lenmann

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The transom blocks look great, where did you get them?
 

jstnoc

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The transom blocks look great, where did you get them?
GT had some left over from an old project. Bergeron has a couple custom sets also. One set of 5's and another set of 10's. The 5's are nicely done but I wanted a little bigger since there is a lot of transom on my boat.
 

jstnoc

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I decided to go with a Keith Eickert single stage water pump so that I wasn't limited on water flow. With a little mounting modification and a custom pulley I'll be able to use this with my direct drive alternator mount. IMG_4728.jpg

Disassembled the presto alternator and polished the cases.

IMG_4888.jpg

Ordered a new clay cams fuel pump. Cleaned it up a bit.

IMG_4727.jpg
 

tony

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Looking forward to seeing it come together... Nice parts
 

vdcruiser

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Might be a little late for you to make changes now, but I just read through this thread and saw where you had questions about the strut location and angle. When I redid the strut on my 21' Howard, I had Bergeron make me a new strut and he recommended a 7.5 deg strut and he had me to mount it with the barrel 24" from the transom and its designed so that the tip of the prop blade is about 5/8" from the bottom of the boat. With this setup the center plate of the V drive is 110" from the transom and the boat does carry the bow nicely and will run 100 + mph with my blown 548 BBC.
 

AzGeo

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Might be a little late for you to make changes now, but I just read through this thread and saw where you had questions about the strut location and angle. When I redid the strut on my 21' Howard, I had Bergeron make me a new strut and he recommended a 7.5 deg strut and he had me to mount it with the barrel 24" from the transom and its designed so that the tip of the prop blade is about 5/8" from the bottom of the boat. With this setup the center plate of the V drive is 110" from the transom and the boat does carry the bow nicely and will run 100 + mph with my blown 548 BBC.
As I recall the Vaughn bottom has a nice sharp 'entry and keel', but no strakes down near that keel line . So the gross weight does not have a 'lifting strakes' to get the boat 'on top' .

I have tried to describe this same problem to "Mr Daytona", about his Dana 22', and "Mr Scapegoat" about his 20.5 Eliminator, in the past .

Similar to the Eliminator 20.5 that is a great jet ,but 'rolls to one side' as a V-drive . (without a large delta pad)

With the first set of strakes so high up the V-section, it's pushing 20% of the entire hull bottom THRU the water, rather than 'skimming across the top' of the water . I'm 'guestimating', 3800 square inches down to 1500 square inches of wetted surface area, but it is a lot of work .

Your Howard/Spectra has a more rounded keel, and those center shorter strakes, down low near the keel that lift the front end. When you get above 100 MPH then you are on the 'rounded tail' with no strakes/stability . That's where 'extending those strakes' will help your control . (re-balance too)

"At 7.5 degrees". IF it had 2 new strakes added, one on each side, half way between the keel and the original first strakes, ending about 3' from the transom, I would have the 'motor T-400' with the prop directly under the 'block web' between cylinders #2 and #4 . That would make that motor plate (aprox) 15" from the transom at it's bottom, not on top of the stringers . (transom angle)

IMO, this would make it run 'it's best' .

BUT, it's just my opinion, and the reason I did not build a V-drive Vaughn for my customer back in the 1980's . ..........
 

jstnoc

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Good info from both!! Thank you. I ran my measurements by Bergeron and he said it seemed setup correct. I also found a 22 schiada build sheet with all measurement specs and my setup was very close. I am thinking about lengthening the center lifting strakes a bit. The Vaughn definitely has a sharp keel and entry that's why I bought it. I wanted a smoother ride through the rough stuff and was not planning on hitting the century mark. A solid 75-80 is sufficient. 2015-12-23 21.58.51.jpg
 

jstnoc

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Using a enderle bypass valve instead of a regulator per clay smith recommendation. I came up with a nice 180 back to my fuel filter head.

IMG_5044.jpg

Still figuring out the water pump but it looks like it will fit well with minimal modifications.

IMG_5048.jpg
IMG_5047.jpg
 

HighVoltage329

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Had it in my 240 Hallett with a Gentry turbo set up. Ran great. Barry freshened it up last year and it's going into my son Stoker. :eek
 

jstnoc

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Had it in my 240 Hallett with a Gentry turbo set up. Ran great. Barry freshened it up last year and it's going into my son Stoker. :eek
Going for the fastest stoker trophy? :) Should be a runner. Glad to hear you got some good life out of it.
 

GregG

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Looking forward to getting her done and putting some hours on her. It's been a slow but steady process. How's the long block holding up?
I forget now but when I was looking at a Vaughn I thought it was wider than 8' beam? Boat really looks nice :thumbsup
 

jstnoc

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Water pump setup is coming together. Making some custom pulleys for correct setback and alternator mount clearance.


IMG_5940.jpg
 

jstnoc

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The floors and dash needed to be replaced so while these guys were at it I decided to cap the transom for a cleaner look. Left the rest of the gel for a future date.

IMG_5969.jpg
 

Blownbillybob

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I have tried to describe this same problem to "Mr Daytona", about his Dana 22', and "Mr Scapegoat" about his 20.5 Eliminator, in the past .

Similar to the Eliminator 20.5 that is a great jet ,but 'rolls to one side' as a V-drive . (without a large delta pad).......
So I️ read this awhile back and understood about the Eliminator rolling to 1 side because of the radius keel and wasn’t sure what u meant about a Delta bottom ( I️ know what a Delta bottom is)

So now I️ know jus seen a 20.5 with a Delta bottom pad for the first time didn’t know they had 2 different molds for those hulls??? All I’ve ever seen was the radius bottom boats!

So that 1 ski racer 20.5 out of AZ that’s for sale for 40k looks like a radius bottom Was the delta pad a later design ? What was the deal with those hulls???
 

AzGeo

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So I️ read this awhile back and understood about the Eliminator rolling to 1 side because of the radius keel and wasn’t sure what u meant about a Delta bottom ( I️ know what a Delta bottom is)

So now I️ know jus seen a 20.5 with a Delta bottom pad for the first time didn’t know they had 2 different molds for those hulls??? All I’ve ever seen was the radius bottom boats!

So that 1 ski racer 20.5 out of AZ that’s for sale for 40k looks like a radius bottom Was the delta pad a later design ? What was the deal with those hulls???

Thanks for being so observant . No, it's probably just one mold, and they placed an "insert" into the mold to create the "delta pad" .

Remember, the delta pad is not only a "flat spot at the transom", but it also "creates false rocker", which helps keep the nose of the boat up .

Many builders use "mold inserts", for many uses . Pad bottoms, steps, strut and plate relieves, air inlet vents, bimini top placements, etc ......

I made my mold and delta pad inserts with .120" stainless flat sheet (struts were 3/8" aluminum). For example: you could fill a mold with water, creating whatever size and/or angle delta pad you wanted to make .

Let's say you wanted 13" wide at the transom, and 1 degree of "rise", VS the keel line and the planing surfaces of the 4 strakes the boat rides on .

Level the mold, Place tape on the bottom, where it meets the transom, for the width you want (13" wide). Then raise the bow by the number angle you wish to use . Then fill that "lower portion of the mold with water" up to the tape lines (wide) .

This water will ACT like it is creating the delta pad and the "water mark left in the mold" (after drying), when the water is removed, will give you the shape and dimensions you will need to translate into a "mold insert" piece .

Example; you could have the width at the transom of 13", and the ONE DEGREE of DELTA PAD ends up being water IN A "V" shape 56" or 60" or ? forward of the transom . When dry the mold will have a water line and a perfect shape/measurement of the insert you need to make .

Once you have the "insert" made, you prep the molds, place the insert into the hull mold, secure it with 2 sided tape, bondo tabs, hot glue, and then CLAY the gaps between the new insert piece and the mold shape . IMO, .120" stainless is the "thinnest" (easy to clay, less sanding to finish), and most sturdy (holds it's shape), of the materials I have seen used over the years .

I hope this is clear and I'm explaining it in terms that are understandable .

The REASONS builders use "delta pads" varies, but their general use is for more straight line top speeds, and secondarily for control problems ...............

Clear as mud, right ?
 

Blownbillybob

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Thanks for being so observant . No, it's probably just one mold, and they placed an "insert" into the mold to create the "delta pad" .

Remember, the delta pad is not only a "flat spot at the transom", but it also "creates false rocker", which helps keep the nose of the boat up .

Many builders use "mold inserts", for many uses . Pad bottoms, steps, strut and plate relieves, air inlet vents, bimini top placements, etc ......

I made my mold and delta pad inserts with .120" stainless flat sheet (struts were 3/8" aluminum). For example: you could fill a mold with water, creating whatever size and/or angle delta pad you wanted to make .

Let's say you wanted 13" wide at the transom, and 1 degree of "rise", VS the keel line and the planing surfaces of the 4 strakes the boat rides on .

Level the mold, Place tape on the bottom, where it meets the transom, for the width you want (13" wide). Then raise the bow by the number angle you wish to use . Then fill that "lower portion of the mold with water" up to the tape lines (wide) .

This water will ACT like it is creating the delta pad and the "water mark left in the mold" (after drying), when the water is removed, will give you the shape and dimensions you will need to translate into a "mold insert" piece .

Example; you could have the width at the transom of 13", and the ONE DEGREE of DELTA PAD ends up being water IN A "V" shape 56" or 60" or ? forward of the transom . When dry the mold will have a water line and a perfect shape/measurement of the insert you need to make .

Once you have the "insert" made, you prep the molds, place the insert into the hull mold, secure it with 2 sided tape, bondo tabs, hot glue, and then CLAY the gaps between the new insert piece and the mold shape . IMO, .120" stainless is the "thinnest" (easy to clay, less sanding to finish), and most sturdy (holds it's shape), of the materials I have seen used over the years .

I hope this is clear and I'm explaining it in terms that are understandable .

The REASONS builders use "delta pads" varies, but their general use is for more straight line top speeds, and secondarily for control problems ...............

Clear as mud, right ?
 

Blownbillybob

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Yup got it!!
Pretty Kool trick. I like!!!

So have u seen a Delta pad 20.5 Eliminator before or was that jus coincidence
 

AzGeo

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Yup got it!!
Pretty Kool trick. I like!!!

So have u seen a Delta pad 20.5 Eliminator before or was that jus coincidence
I have seen a couple of them . As I remember long past history , Jan the owner of Lightning did a number of the V-drive installs for Eliminator .

HE was STUCK with what they gave him , and he did his BEST to make all his work run good and long lasting .

IMO, the ones with "delta pads" , ran the best . I have no "excuses" for those that do not have pads , but I do understand what their "problem" is .

I offered an "estimate" for a guy with a ROUND BOTTOM 20'6" with a turbo V-drive ,about 6 years ago .

I told him "$10K !" and I would do everything the boat needed, including rebuilding the weak turbo motor , up to what it would take to make the boat perform . (no hurry, doing it all myself, 12 to 18 months)

He later called me a "backyard mechanic" , and was dismissive to my whole history of building boats .

If he went to a SHOP that paid rent and ACTUALLY KNEW WHAT TO DO , he would have ended up paying more like $25K for the work I would have done .

I cannot change history or the actions of others , but I can instruct you as to what you need for speed and control , in hulls like these .

The hull work alone is about $3500/$4000 these days , so you need to budget your project for today's prices . The V-drive set up would be about $8000 , today , and the motor is up to you .
 

oldschool

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Does the "cruiser" you build have a delta pad? My Hallett SS 20'r has the round keel, but it doesn't act particularly spooky. Then again, this boat has only run in the mid 80's. Not looking to run faster in this boat. Are the Eliminator 20'r and Hallett 20'r essentially the same hull?
 

AzGeo

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Does the "cruiser" you build have a delta pad? My Hallett SS 20'r has the round keel, but it doesn't act particularly spooky. Then again, this boat has only run in the mid 80's. Not looking to run faster in this boat. Are the Eliminator 20'r and Hallett 20'r essentially the same hull?
Not the same at all from my memories .

But, measuring the bottoms would be the definitive factor here .
 

jstnoc

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Not the same at all from my memories .

But, measuring the bottoms would be the definitive factor here .
Lots of good stuff AzGeo! I know a few boat models with delta pads which are definitely faster than without. Ive heard they loose a bit of ride quality and have a tendency to spin out easier???
 

norcalLmo

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Lookin' real good Justin - Nice work!!!! Keep posting updates and pics!!!!!
 

bocco

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I have seen a couple of them . As I remember long past history , Jan the owner of Lightning did a number of the V-drive installs for Eliminator .

HE was STUCK with what they gave him , and he did his BEST to make all his work run good and long lasting .

IMO, the ones with "delta pads" , ran the best . I have no "excuses" for those that do not have pads , but I do understand what their "problem" is .

I offered an "estimate" for a guy with a ROUND BOTTOM 20'6" with a turbo V-drive ,about 6 years ago .

I told him "$10K !" and I would do everything the boat needed, including rebuilding the weak turbo motor , up to what it would take to make the boat perform . (no hurry, doing it all myself, 12 to 18 months)

He later called me a "backyard mechanic" , and was dismissive to my whole history of building boats .

If he went to a SHOP that paid rent and ACTUALLY KNEW WHAT TO DO , he would have ended up paying more like $25K for the work I would have done .

I cannot change history or the actions of others , but I can instruct you as to what you need for speed and control , in hulls like these .

The hull work alone is about $3500/$4000 these days , so you need to budget your project for today's prices . The V-drive set up would be about $8000 , today , and the motor is up to you .
That sounds like a decent deal to me. I had a 20.5 that I loved but I got tired of the handling surprises. What frustrates me is that Eliminator should have seen the problem with the first one that they built and corrected it before selling a boat to a customer. Mine was rigged by Connelly and I guess they never actually drove one either.
 

Deangang

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Nice work! Love your build thread. When are you planning to get her wet again ? How long are your plates in the middle ?
 
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