New build Eliminator 27 Speedster

[OldSchoolBoats]

Good news.

Motor is in the boat and running. They moved fast once the engine was re-assembled and long-blocked.

I heard there was a lake test today. Hopefully I will get some prop data also which would be nice because I was struggling with that before the incident.

We shall see soon.

You know its refreshing when someone that you paid good money to does something when they promise to do it AND in a timely manner.

So that means you will be making it to Hookie Day?

 

[DaveC]

Bad exhaust valves were one theory.

Actually I didn’t run it that hard. Usually cruise around 4k. My wife hates going faat

 

[DaveC]

Probably not. Its almost done though as far as motor repairs but I got some other issues.

I have some other unrelated setup problems on the boat that I need to resolve. It will need to stay in LA to fix that shit. ( i.e. drive height, prop selection and HP issues)

Its been tough going back and forth to LA to get shit fixed over the last year and a half. Both me and my truck are tired and work is piling up

But then again I have no more money to buy more boat stuff so maybe I should just give up for this year and bring it home. Lol.

So that means you will be making it to Hookie Day?

 

[steak&lobster]

Probably not. Its almost done though as far as motor repairs but I got some other issues.

I have some other unrelated setup problems on the boat that I need to resolve. It will need to stay in LA to fix that shit. ( i.e. drive height, prop selection and HP issues)

Its been tough going back and forth to LA to get shit fixed over the last year and a half. Both me and my truck are tired and work is piling up

But then again I have no more money to buy more boat stuff so maybe I should just give up for this year and bring it home. Lol.

man, this has been a saga for you! I hope someday soon you are able to cruise this rig and just smile

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Any updates on this one?

 

[DaveC]

Nothing yet. Motor was repaired so it runs

But it went back to EB for some updates and some tuning. They haven’t finished with their work yet so I dunno

It’s the off-season so no one seems to anxious to finish it

 

[DaveC]

Just to circle back around. The motor was rebuilt by Teague. They got it running but didn't change much per my request.

The motor needed a complete rebuild because of water intrusion. I only put 7 hours on it and it leaked water from day one. I was told that the final word was water leaked around the head gasket from the head bolts being the wrong size.

And NO I was never made whole on this deal. So far I have received NO offers, no congratulations, zip, zero, nada. I had to pay $17,000 to get a brand new motor rebuilt. Only the crank, heads, block and rods were re-used on the long block. I have been waiting for someone to make this right but it has become readily apparent that will not happen.

The other thing that bothers me is that I was told that we should have 700+ HP. That clearly is not the case.

The motor spins 5100 RPM with a 30 pitch prop and 5400 RPM with a 28 pitch prop. To me that says it makes less than 600 HP. (by comparison in the same boat a Merc 600 runs 5400 with a 30 pitch and 5200 with a HP 525 and a 28 pitch)

I can almost excuse the blow up, just not the lack of power. I mean that is what we are here for right?

 

[RCDave]

Sorry you had to go through all that DC. And not get any offer from the original builder to make you whole.

Hope you are enjoying this beautiful boat.

 

[DaveC]

It needs some more work but we are out of time now. At this juncture since it is now running I am just going to run it this summer and look to next winter for any changes.

I will either accept it as is or possibly upgrade at a later date. It sux not having a running boat during the summer so its time to enjoy it.

In hindsight I should not have built this boat the way that I did. Others should consider what I am saying if they want to do the same thing as I did.

Here is what I should have done, in order as I see it now: (YMMV)

Bought a 28 Speedster with twin 400's
Bought a 27 Speedster with twin 400's.
Installed a Merc 600 SCI in my 27 Speedster
Installed a 850 SCI from either Teague or Boostpower.

I don't think it should be done any other way at least for most of us here.

The 850 SC is still a bad mamma jamma and clearly faster than my junk or a 600 SCI but its just overkill for my needs.

 

[Cole Trickle]

Just to circle back around. The motor was rebuilt by Teague. They got it running but didn't change much per my request.

The motor needed a complete rebuild because of water intrusion. I only put 7 hours on it and it leaked water from day one. I was told that the final word was water leaked around the head gasket from the head bolts being the wrong size.

And NO I was never made whole on this deal. So far I have received NO offers, no congratulations, zip, zero, nada. I had to pay $17,000 to get a brand new motor rebuilt. Only the crank, heads, block and rods were re-used on the long block. I have been waiting for someone to make this right but it has become readily apparent that will not happen.

The other thing that bothers me is that I was told that we should have 700+ HP. That clearly is not the case.

The motor spins 5100 RPM with a 30 pitch prop and 5400 RPM with a 28 pitch prop. To me that says it makes less than 600 HP. (by comparison in the same boat a Merc 600 runs 5400 with a 30 pitch and 5200 with a HP 525 and a 28 pitch)

I can almost excuse the blow up, just not the lack of power. I mean that is what we are here for right?

Those rpm numbers and prop size don't seem that far off. 27 speedster is a pretty big heavy boat and honestly 650ish hp just won't be enough to be exciting.

No matter what I do/try my 548 CI is happiest with a Bravo 28 at about 5400 rpms.(I think my engine makes 650+) I can get it to pick up a couple hundred rpms with a 26 but the boat feels like shit and is actually slower. I'm sure there is a little mph left on the table for both of us if you have the time and $$$ for some different props. (I need a 30 that spins like a 26...haha)

I think the Merc 600 is a little underrated and will make a crap ton more TQ than a 540 BBC even with the best parts unless you can get the 540 to spin to 7K. (this seems hard to do in a Bravo set up)

What gear ratio is in your drive? (1.5?)

What does the boat run with both props? (85-90?)

Sucks buddy I know this has been a nightmare.... I agree the merc 600 would have been the best I/O choice and then you could have turned it up. Personally I think the Outboards are the wave of the future and the way I would go if building new.

 

[FreeBird236]

It needs some more work but we are out of time now. At this juncture since it is now running I am just going to run it this summer and look to next winter for any changes.

I will either accept it as is or possibly upgrade at a later date. It sux not having a running boat during the summer so its time to enjoy it.

In hindsight I should not have built this boat the way that I did. Others should consider what I am saying if they want to do the same thing as I did.

Here is what I should have done, in order as I see it now: (YMMV)

Bought a 28 Speedster with twin 400's
Bought a 27 Speedster with twin 400's.
Installed a Merc 600 SCI in my 27 Speedster
Installed a 850 SCI from either Teague or Boostpower.

I don't think it should be done any other way at least for most of us here.

The 850 SC is still a bad mamma jamma and clearly faster than my junk or a 600 SCI but its just overkill for my needs.

I know this has been a nightmare for you, but try to concentrate on the fact that you have one beautiful boat. Not sure you've exhausted all the possibilities yet though, did Teague approve of the components used in the engine build?, if yes you might have a bullet proof engine that can be modified fairly easily. You might also look at props and prop height, doesn't take much change to make a big difference. Good luck.

 

[DaveC]

I am trying to find a consensus on what RPM it should run. I was under the impression it should be a bit higher maybe in the 6000 range with the 28. I was told it would be more than it is now. I think I am in the 575-600 HP range?

The 600 SCI runs hard because of the SC, I agree with that.

I have a 1.5 gear.

We are presently tuning and the slip #'s are a bit high. We are working on that now.

I was originally shooting for 95 but I would take 90. We can barely even get 85 out of it now.

We have tried 7 different props to date. EB is working on the prop testing and drive heights now but that is a work in progress.

I should have done the OB's but I was only looking for 95 mph and I like the sound of big blocks. But now they come out with the 300 V8's that sound bitchen. I can't win. LOL

Those rpm numbers and prop size don't seem that far off. 27 speedster is a pretty big heavy boat and honestly 650ish hp just won't be enough to be exciting.

No matter what I do/try my 548 CI is happiest with a Bravo 28 at about 5400 rpms.(I think my engine makes 650+) I can get it to pick up a couple hundred rpms with a 26 but the boat feels like shit and is actually slower. I'm sure there is a little mph left on the table for both of us if you have the time and $$$ for some different props. (I need a 30 that spins like a 26...haha)

I think the Merc 600 is a little underrated and will make a crap ton more TQ than a 540 BBC even with the best parts unless you can get the 540 to spin to 7K. (this seems hard to do in a Bravo set up)

What gear ratio is in your drive? (1.5?)

What does the boat run with both props? (85-90?)

Sucks buddy I know this has been a nightmare.... I agree the merc 600 would have been the best I/O choice and then you could have turned it up. Personally I think the Outboards are the wave of the future and the way I would go if building new.

WE are working on drive heights and props now. I will report back.

Teague doesn't like the motor at all and they told me so. LOL I didn't see any problems with the long block components but I dunno?!? Not sure I will be able to upgrade but I am going to discuss it with them this summer. I think a whipple would fit nicely.

I wasn't looking for 115 MPH+ boat but I might need more power and the whipple might be the answer.

I could really use that $17K for that whipple right about now.

I know this has been a nightmare for you, but try to concentrate on the fact that you have one beautiful boat. Not sure you've exhausted all the possibilities yet though, did Teague approve of the components used in the engine build?, if yes you might have a bullet proof engine that can be modified fairly easily. You might also look at props and prop height, doesn't take much change to make a big difference. Good luck.

 

[Cole Trickle]

I am trying to find a consensus on what RPM it should run. I was under the impression it should be a bit higher maybe in the 6000 range with the 28. I was told it would be more than it is now. I think I am in the 575-600 HP range?

The 600 SCI runs hard because of the SC, I agree with that.

I have a 1.5 gear.

We are presently tuning and the slip #'s are a bit high. We are working on that now.

I was originally shooting for 95 but I would take 90. We can barely even get 85 out of it now.

We have tried 7 different props to date. EB is working on the prop testing and drive heights now but that is a work in progress.

I should have done the OB's but I was only looking for 95 mph and I like the sound of big blocks. But now they come out with the 300 V8's that sound bitchen. I can't win. LOL



WE are working on drive heights and props now. I will report back.

Teague doesn't like the motor at all and they told me so. LOL I didn't see any problems with the long block components but I dunno?!? Not sure I will be able to upgrade but I am going to discuss it with them this summer. I think a whipple would fit nicely.

I wasn't looking for 115 MPH+ boat but I might need more power and the whipple might be the answer.

I could really use that $17K for that whipple right about now.

Wonder what they didn't like....

Good block and good heads. Only other factors that could be changed are cam and compression ratio.

What cam and compression? (I wen't pump gas 91 conservative and honestly I think my cam is a little big hence why I can't pull 5800)

Bravo's won't live at 6K rpms so you typically want to be in the 5600-5800 rpm range.

Seems like Teague could have easily made a couple changes or recommendations to get you to your goals for 17k....good lord

Charge a little extra this season and turn that bitch into a Teague 1050!!!

 

[hallett21]

Man for 17k I would think they would “tolerate” the motor.


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[DaveC]

I was shooting for 5800-6000 max.

I am not sure what they didn't like about it. LOL

Not sure on cam and compression. I think in the 9-9.5 range. It needs 91.

At the time of the rebuild I was short of cash so it was more about getting the thing back together and running with what we had. No money for upgrades. I had to shit can most of the motor so there was a lot of parts purchased again which adds up quick.

At the time of the blow up I had just finished with the initial payment of building the boat itself and paying cash for some of it so the coffers were dry so to speak. (I was just a tad over budget on the build. LOL) I wasn't expecting to build another motor so quickly. But it was touch and go for a few minutes there. I wish I had the cash to upgrade to a whipple at the time.

It was a cash flow problem. If I had budgeted a Teague 850 in the initial build everything would have been OK even with it costing more intially. (from a cash flow perspective)

I am good now so I can upgrade in the future. I upgraded my fee schedule so it may very well be a Teague 1050.

All of this could have been avoided with a large home equity line. Know a guy? LOL

Wonder what they didn't like....

Good block and good heads. Only other factors that could be changed are cam and compression ratio.

What cam and compression? (I wen't pump gas 91 conservative and honestly I think my cam is a little big hence why I can't pull 5800)

Bravo's won't live at 6K rpms so you typically want to be in the 5600-5800 rpm range.

Seems like Teague could have easily made a couple changes or recommendations to get you to your goals for 17k....good lord

Charge a little extra this season and turn that bitch into a Teague 1050!!!

 

[DaveC]

As for the rebuild it was a complete rebuild so there was a lot of parts and that shit adds up fast. I saw an invoice for like $9,000 in parts. The rest was labor for the rebuild, refinish, removal, reinstall and tuning. They did everything and I did nothing.

They wanted to change some the induction system too but I wanted to run what was there.

I understand where they are coming from as they want to run what is in their program and I brought something in from the outside that is not part of their program.

 

[hallett21]

As for the rebuild it was a complete rebuild so there was a lot of parts and that shit adds up fast. I saw an invoice for like $9,000 in parts. The rest was labor for the rebuild, refinish, removal, reinstall and tuning. They did everything and I did nothing.

They wanted to change some induction too but I wanted to run what was there.

I understand where they are coming from as they want to run what is in their program and I brought something in from the outside that is not part of their program.

And I take it the hurt motor was worthless unless running


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[DaveC]

Exactly. It was rebuild it or whipple it.

The whipple converts the induction, valve train, EFI and control modules which would have made them happier I think. (I should have gone with the whipple actually)

I cannot convert to OB either since they are laid up and rigged differently.

New motors are expensive and I have most of the parts to make it work with my boat. Rebuild made the most sense.

And I take it the hurt motor was worthless unless running


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[DaveC]

This boat has turned out to be a red-headed step child so to speak. The rumor mill had started almost immediately in the industry about it. It was fascinating.

Actually I have been told on numerous occasions that the entire build was considered a laughing stock by those in the industry. Everyone in the industry knew of this build while it was occurring and the problems I was having with it. It wasn't from me since I don't know anyone in the industry let alone talk to them and I live in Norcal. I have never met anyone in the business before this build (outside of Eliminator) but they already knew of me and the boat and ALL the problems I was having when I contacted them for help. That shows how much everyone in the business talks to each other about things. Gossip and such.

With that being said I don't think I was treated fairly by the industry when I was looking for help. It was as if the red-headed step child moniker followed me around.

For that reason I am not building a new boat anytime soon with anyone on the West Coast. And I will keep that all in mind when making my next purchase. This entire experience has turned me off to the whole build process.

Which is too bad since I had considered just building a new boat with stock dual power and be done with this problem. This time with double the budget. That would solve most of my problems. But I just don't want to headache of doing another build. I don't think my marriage can take it. Fawk that shit.

I am fascinated and disgusted all at the same time.

 

[Gelcoater]

This boat has turned out to be a red-headed step child so to speak. The rumor mill had started almost immediately in the industry about it. It was fascinating.

Actually I have been told on numerous occasions that the entire build was considered a laughing stock by those in the industry. Everyone in the industry knew of this build while it was occurring and the problems I was having with it. It wasn't from me since I don't know anyone in the industry let alone talk to them and I live in Norcal. I have never met anyone in the business before this build (outside of Eliminator) but they already knew of me and the boat and ALL the problems I was having when I contacted them for help. That shows how much everyone in the business talks to each other about things. Gossip and such.

With that being said I don't think I was treated fairly by the industry when I was looking for help. It was as if the red-headed step child moniker followed me around.

For that reason I am not building a new boat anytime soon with anyone on the West Coast. And I will keep that all in mind when making my next purchase. This entire experience has turned me off to the whole build process.

Which is too bad since I had considered just building a new boat with stock dual power and be done with this problem. This time with double the budget. That would solve most of my problems. But I just don't want to headache of doing another build. I don't think my marriage can take it. Fawk that shit.

I am fascinated and disgusted all at the same time.

I’m sorry for the position you’re in, Dave.
After reading this post I have to say, I must not be “in the know” in the industry? Because I don’t know wtf you’re talking about with this laughing stock comment?

I don’t want to sound like a dick when I say this, but is it possible “everyone in the industry” knew about your build from this?
https://www.riverdavesplace.com/xenforo/threads/new-build-eliminator-27-speedster.164956/

It seems rather irrational to hold the entire west coast industry to blame for your bad experience?

 

[ArizonaKevin]

This boat has turned out to be a red-headed step child so to speak. The rumor mill had started almost immediately in the industry about it. It was fascinating.

Actually I have been told on numerous occasions that the entire build was considered a laughing stock by those in the industry. Everyone in the industry knew of this build while it was occurring and the problems I was having with it. It wasn't from me since I don't know anyone in the industry let alone talk to them and I live in Norcal. I have never met anyone in the business before this build (outside of Eliminator) but they already knew of me and the boat and ALL the problems I was having when I contacted them for help. That shows how much everyone in the business talks to each other about things. Gossip and such.

With that being said I don't think I was treated fairly by the industry when I was looking for help. It was as if the red-headed step child moniker followed me around.

For that reason I am not building a new boat anytime soon with anyone on the West Coast. And I will keep that all in mind when making my next purchase. This entire experience has turned me off to the whole build process.

Which is too bad since I had considered just building a new boat with stock dual power and be done with this problem. This time with double the budget. That would solve most of my problems. But I just don't want to headache of doing another build. I don't think my marriage can take it. Fawk that shit.

I am fascinated and disgusted all at the same time.

Interesting that you felt shunned by the industry. If I was part of the industry, I would be chomping at the bit to try to help turn the thing around for you and get the free, positive publicity around my name.

 

[DaveC]

I don't want to point any fingers (none would be pointed at you of course) BUT you are right I was not ill treated by EVERYONE. Also SOME individuals did the best they could to help and SOME still are still helping. While others can go fuck themselves.

But there is a bit more.

For one I didn't write down everything in the thread that had occurred for good reason. So some of the stuff that I didn't write down in this thread still became public knowledge at least within the industry. I actually admired the breath of the grape vine in this business.

And much of the negative stuff was done after the fact. Also this thread was positive for the most part until things started going south.

With all that aside would you say that I may have been shunned for posting such publicity online?

I’m sorry for the position you’re in, Dave.
After reading this post I have to say, I must not be “in the know” in the industry? Because I don’t know wtf you’re talking about with this laughing stock comment?

I don’t want to sound like a dick when I say this, but is it possible “everyone in the industry” knew about your build from this?
https://www.riverdavesplace.com/xenforo/threads/new-build-eliminator-27-speedster.164956/

It seems rather irrational to hold the entire west coast industry to blame for your bad experience?

And yes from a customer point of view now that I have gotten a good look at how things are done on the inside I don't want anything to do with it again. That is just my opinion.

Actually to be more blunt now that I am out so much money and no longer need any help (almost) I am almost ready to go public with those those that I can tell to go fuck themselves.

 

[Gelcoater]

I don't want to point any fingers (none would be pointed at you) BUT you are right I was not ill treated by EVERYONE. Also SOME individuals did the best they could to help and SOME still are helping. While others can go fuck themselves.

But there is a bit more.

For one I didn't write down everything that had occurred for good reason. Also much of this was done after the fact. So some of the stuff that I didn't write down in this thread still became public knowledge at least within the industry. I actually admired the breath of the grape vine in this business.

Also this thread was positive for the most part until things started going south.

With all that aside would you say that I may have been shunned for posting such publicity online?



And yes from a customer point of view now that I have gotten a good look at how things are done on the inside I don't want anything to do with it again. That is just my opinion.

Shunned? Absolutely not.
For telling it like you see it??

I’m sorry your expectations weren’t met, Dave. I hope I have opportunity at some point to meet or exceed them.

 

[DaveC]

Lets keep in real. You did excellent work and it was on time as promised with no bullshit. Everyone should do business like you.

Others not so much.

Shunned? Absolutely not.
For telling it like you see it??

I’m sorry your expectations weren’t met, Dave. I hope I have opportunity at some point to meet or exceed them.

 

[milkmoney]

Wow. What a roller coaster.....i dont knock Teague at all , I am a fan of Teague. I just have come to my own conclusion that I love turnkey merc power .....as a lot of others do too....

I hope you can come to a place where you you can get back that excitement and out this all behind you. Your boat is bitchin

[emoji41][emoji106][emoji202]

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[DaveC]

Actually talking about telling it like it is......

It took me $205,0000 and two years, two different motors with one blown up motor, all to go 81 mph.

At least the boat looks damn good while I sit in it looking like a damn fool.

Shunned? Absolutely not.
For telling it like you see it??

I’m sorry your expectations weren’t met, Dave. I hope I have opportunity at some point to meet or exceed them.

Buying a boat like this is a total irrational decision. Thats fine because we try to rationalize it to ourselves.

The immediate payoff is the promise of all the fun we are going to have with our fast new machine. It makes it all worth it.

Well when the new machine doesn’t arrive or is eternally delayed and after much consternation and years of delay finally does arrive but there is no excitement because its not fast. That really takes all the fun out of this.

Then while you wait with no boat the realization hits you that you acted irrationally.

Well all that makes it hard to do the same irrational thing a second time.

 

[DaveC]

Like I said before some of this is my fault for making the decisions I made and trusting certain people

For example I spent $66,000 for an engine that runs like shit, not as promised and then blew up.

For that kinda cash I could have the Teague 850 blower motor that would be 30 mph faster than what I have now and I would still have $20,000 left over after.

 

[Thunderhead1]

Like I said before some of this is my fault for making the decisions I made and trusting certain people

For example I spent $66,000 for an engine that runs like shit, not as promised and then blew up.

For that kinda cash I could have the Teague 850 blower motor that would be 30 mph faster than what I have now and I would still have $20,000 left over after.

OHHH Yeah.... I know EXACTLY how you feel !!!!! I just sold my disappointment... 2yrs , all the anxiety just to be completely disappointed and out 2x the cash of what it would have been to go Teague or Merc.... YUP.... Sickening... But Im doing it again, All MERC no bullshit this time..

Good luck with the journey, sounds like its on the home stretch for you.... Still pisses me off...

 

[RiverDave]

You had mentioned that the boat needed some setup adjustments / drive height issues etc?

I am curious as to why? EB has built a ton of them and should know where to land an X on that?

Did you change that for some reason?

Secondly you mentioned you hadn’t made those changes but were quoting rpm / vs speed and the motor not pulling the rpm. If the setup is incorrect how could it be expected to? Or was that situation corrected before that?

This sounds like a bad situation. I know that Brian (albeit lost a lot of weight and a lot of finances during his chemo and surgery) is now putting his life back together. I would call him and discuss what happens next.

That said I know a lot of people in the industry and I never heard any of what you are talking about?

RD

 

[Thunderhead1]

You had mentioned that the boat needed some setup adjustments / drive height issues etc?

I am curious as to why? EB has built a ton of them and should know where to land an X on that?

Did you change that for some reason?

Secondly you mentioned you hadn’t made those changes but were quoting rpm / vs speed and the motor not pulling the rpm. If the setup is incorrect how could it be expected to? Or was that situation corrected before that?

This sounds like a bad situation. I know that Brian (albeit lost a lot of weight and a lot of finances during his chemo and surgery) is now putting his life back together. I would call him and discuss what happens next.

That said I know a lot of people in the industry and I never heard any of what you are talking about?

RD

Keep in mind that all of this was started way before any one was sick... The guy shit the bed on a handful of people .

 

[DaveC]

I don’t know about the drive height that’s why it is there. They never got a chance to tune it as the boat never ran for EB. I am leaving it to them to figure it out.

I haven’t changed anything. I only had the boat for 2 months over the last two years. Actually no changes have been made.

They are trying a different drive height soon. They will figure it out.

I will see if the RPM changes but that’s doubtful at this point. I am told the drive height is close according to EB.

Even if we squeak a few more MPH out of this setup the RPM is way short of what I was promised.

I talked to Brian and we don’t see eye to eye on what happened. Given the situation I would be happy to resolve it reasonably. I guess we will see each other in court very soon to resolve it. No one wins here

People in the business have bigger fish to fry than me so of course you never heard of this. Lol. plus this was two years ago already

Truth be told I should just sell this and be done with it and buy another boat.

You had mentioned that the boat needed some setup adjustments / drive height issues etc?

I am curious as to why? EB has built a ton of them and should know where to land an X on that?

Did you change that for some reason?

Secondly you mentioned you hadn’t made those changes but were quoting rpm / vs speed and the motor not pulling the rpm. If the setup is incorrect how could it be expected to? Or was that situation corrected before that?

This sounds like a bad situation. I know that Brian (albeit lost a lot of weight and a lot of finances during his chemo and surgery) is now putting his life back together. I would call him and discuss what happens next.

That said I know a lot of people in the industry and I never heard any of what you are talking about?

RD

 

[DaveC]

And I talked to several of them. That’s how I knew I was gonna get screwed.

Keep in mind that all of this was started way before any one was sick... The guy shit the bed on a handful of people .

 

[Thunderhead1]

And I talked to several of them. That’s how I knew I was gonna get screwed.

Your Boat was in the B&D shop when I was loading all my Parts and pieces and headed to Pfaff. I know how you feel...I did sell mine and started over, I think it comes out of the mold here this week or early next. We went through all the same cancelled trips and empty promises.

This will the 3rd summer that I have to run the pontoon!

 

[DaveC]

Damn it. I knew I should have bought a toon in the interim

Interesting!! you are another, different person who go messed with in addition to others I spoke with who went through the same thing.

Your Boat was in the B&D shop when I was loading all my Parts and pieces and headed to Pfaff. I know how you feel...I did sell mine and started over, I think it comes out of the mold here this week or early next. We went through all the same cancelled trips and empty promises.

This will the 3rd summer that I have to run the pontoon!

 

[SLT Kota]

I might have missed it but what compression ratio are the new pistons? Is there any difference in the cam?

Sorry to hear about all of the issues you have been through, hopefully EB and teague will be able to get you sorted out!

 

[Gelcoater]

Dave, I’m curious.
How did the boat run with the loaner 496? Speed? Rpm?

 

[DaveC]

I don’t have cam specs or compression, so I asked since it was changed. Decent sized cam with roughly 9-9.5 compression. I haven’t driven the rebuild but it sounds very similar to the original.

One odd thing it does with the 30 is there is virtually no increase in power in the last 25% of throttle stick movement. Not sure if that’s normal but I might check into that some more. I know from experience that with a big prop you get a slow crawl with the last 20% of throttle. But this is dead at the top. Weird

The 496HO ran 68 mph at 4800 with a 26. Slip #’s have been high

 

[hallett21]

What lower unit?


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[DaveC]

Merc speed master -2. I am told the drive height is middle of the road now for the 26.

Actually they are testing it today with an adjustment. We will see

As I see it I have two problems.

First the slip numbers are kinda high right now. I am not sure why but EB is working on that now. (This is a work in progress so no big deal)

Second is the engine RPM (power) is way less than was promised. I was told that it ran 5900 RPM with a 30 by the builder. I never saw more than 5200 RPM with the same 30 from day 1. This is what I am mad about. Someone was blowing sunshine up my ass.

Truth be told I am not sure how interrelated these two items are with each other now?

We have discussed moving drive heights, changing lowers, etc. We have already tried about 5 different props. But there is more to do

Bottom line is if I was to get single digit slip #’s and 5400-5500 RPM with the 30 that would make me happy. But we don’t, so we got some work to do. I think this goal is obtainable, hopefully.

 

[Gelcoater]

Have you weighed the boat?

 

[DaveC]

They weighted it at 4700 #’s with 1/2 fuel

Regarding drive height, the center line of prop shaft is equal to the bottom of boat.

 

[hallett21]

I’d run it with a non nose cone lower and see if you can get the slip under control.

Eliminator knows more than me but sounds like you need to set the boat up to what it is. Not what it was supposed to be.

Definitely sucks but sounds like this was rigged for 600+ HP but only has 500+/-


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[Gelcoater]

I’d run it with a non nose cone lower and see if you can get the slip under control.

Eliminator knows more than me but sounds like you need to set the boat up to what it is. Not what it was supposed to be.

Definitely sucks but sounds like this was rigged for 600+ HP but only has 500+/-


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I’m no rigger but I don’t think there’s a difference in x height between the 496 and 600 unless running a stand off box or something?
It’d Be interesting to get it on a dyno and see where it’s at.
I suspect it’s not cammed right for the application but then again I’m no engine guru either
It sounds like the crew that built his mill are engine builders but not so much engine tuners?

I think if I were Dave I’d take advantage of the fact the West tech dynamometer is in Mira Loma,...same city Eliminator is and where his boat is now
They are engine tuners.

They can figure out the issue, and suggest the fix(s).

 

[DaveC]

This thought had definitely crossed my mind.

After this is over with the boat testing that might be the next move......

I’m no rigger but I don’t think there’s a difference in x height between the 496 and 600 unless running a stand off box or something?
It’d Be interesting to get it on a dyno and see where it’s at.
I suspect it’s not cammed right for the application but then again I’m no engine guru either
It sounds like the crew that built his mill are engine builders but not so much engine tuners?

I think if I were Dave I’d take advantage of the fact the West tech dynamometer is in Mira Loma,...same city Eliminator is and where his boat is now
They are engine tuners.

They can figure out the issue, and suggest the fix(s).

 

[hallett21]

I’m no rigger but I don’t think there’s a difference in x height between the 496 and 600 unless running a stand off box or something?
It’d Be interesting to get it on a dyno and see where it’s at.
I suspect it’s not cammed right for the application but then again I’m no engine guru either
It sounds like the crew that built his mill are engine builders but not so much engine tuners?

I think if I were Dave I’d take advantage of the fact the West tech dynamometer is in Mira Loma,...same city Eliminator is and where his boat is now
They are engine tuners.

They can figure out the issue, and suggest the fix(s).

I’m thinking the nose cone is scrubbing speed. Not necessarily the X


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[DaveC]

Could be.

EB seems to like the Sportsmaster lower. Now Teague likes the IMCO lower.

I dunno which one works. LOL

I’m thinking the nose cone is scrubbing speed. Not necessarily the X


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[SLT Kota]

Dang, I can't imagine going through all of this, thanks for letting everyone know about what has happened.

I wasn't sure if teague might have set up the engine for boost in the future which could explain why it is making less power than what the original builder promised.

 

[DaveC]

Sorry to be clear the motor performed the same both before and after the rebuild. There was no difference.

I got 5100-5200 RPM with the 30 before and after the rebuild. I never saw any more or less before and after.

I might have gotten a tad more after but I haven't driven it yet.

Dang, I can't imagine going through all of this, thanks for letting everyone know about what has happened.

I wasn't sure if teague might have set up the engine for boost in the future which could explain why it is making less power than what the original builder promised.

 

[hallett21]

To clarify are you saying even with like a 26 you can’t get it into the promised rpm range?


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[DaveC]

WE can’t get it into a like slip range. My friends and I have several 26 Daytona's in our bunch to compare and also the ones at EB.

Not sure about RPM. But a like boat with a Merc HP 525 gets maybe like 200 less RPM than mine.

To clarify are you saying even with like a 26 you can’t get it into the promised rpm range?


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