New Obama Care Stratagy

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Affordable Health Care Act. "Affordable", yeah right. :finger

So I can pay $471/month for $5K deductible insurance or $5652/year. I can bump up to $560/month for $2K deductible, $6720/year.

That means I pay $10,652 or $8,720 with deductible in a year before any insurance kicks in. I hardly ever go to the doctor so basically, I'm throwing away almost $6K to $7K per year. Not sure how they can think this is "affordable".

If I don't have any insurance you have to pay a fine or "tax" according to the BS politicians. This is $95 or 1% of your annual income.

So if I don't have insurance and something happens and I incur a large doctor's bill I could work out a payment plan with them for say, $500/month. I'd still be way ahead of the game. It may take me years to pay it off but I'm still only $500/month out of pocket. If I don't get sick or injured then I'm way ahead even if I have to pay the fine.

What would be the down side?

 

[Riverbound]

Affordable Health Care Act. "Affordable", yeah right. :finger

So I can pay $471/month for $5K deductible insurance or $5652/year. I can bump up to $560/month for $2K deductible, $6720/year.

That means I pay $10,652 or $8,720 with deductible in a year before any insurance kicks in. I hardly ever go to the doctor so basically, I'm throwing away almost $6K to $7K per year. Not sure how they can think this is "affordable".

If I don't have any insurance you have to pay a fine or "tax" according to the BS politicians. This is $95 or 1% of your annual income.

So if I don't have insurance and something happens and I incur a large doctor's bill I could work out a payment plan with them for say, $500/month. I'd still be way ahead of the game. It may take me years to pay it off but I'm still only $500/month out of pocket. If I don't get sick or injured then I'm way ahead even if I have to pay the fine.

What would be the down side?

The fine increases until it's so much that you have to pay for the tax...I mean health coverage.

 

[BHC Vic]

I completely understand some peoples arguments of never going to the hospital and not needing care. W my little one though we are always at the dr. Appts and check ups like every 3 months. Then just last week he bounced off the couch and we had to take him to urgent care. Only 10 bucks but without insurance yikes kids tough and fearless I'm worried. And yes that's a pink binky.

 

[Classic Daycruiser]

If you think the insurance premiums are too high, get sick once and have to stay in the hospital a week.

I sucks to have to pay for health insurance, but its worst paying for someone who decided not to buy it.

I'm still on my same plan before Obamacare, and my insurance company keeps renewing it. :thumbup:

 

[77charger]

Only affordable for those who do not work.The ones who just have a decent job are the ones who suffer the most.

 

[was thatguy]

I just checked in to a hotel in San Jose.
Deb started her chemo today at Stanford. Was supposed to be a straight forward, 3 part "long day" in the chair. She got admitted when the initial Herceptin was backed up with a second "blocker" type chemo was started.
It caused "tumor lysis" which is a rapid release of junk into the blood from massive killing of Cancer cells. (In laymans terms).
That second bag of juice, the size of a kids juice box, cost $90,000.00 alone.
The three bags total cost $170,000.00

That's TODAY ALONE. with her admittance now overnight to monitor the reactions in the oncology section of inpatient care will bring the 24 hour cost to almost $250,000.00.

And this is the first of 12 weeks.
Our 4K deductible is usually wiped out in the first week of January, and our policies cost me $1200 a month.

Do the math. I can't get my checkbook out fast enough to pay those premiums and deductibles.
My HOUSE wouldn't cover 2 weeks of chemo.

Mind you, I whined about those premiums for 10 full years...then BAM, it happened. Thank GOD she made me pay them all those years.

 

[454Rocket]

I just checked in to a hotel in San Jose.
Deb started her chemo today at Stanford. Was supposed to be a straight forward, 3 part "long day" in the chair. She got admitted when the initial Herceptin was backed up with a second "blocker" type chemo was started.
It caused "tumor lysis" which is a rapid release of junk into the blood from massive killing of Cancer cells. (In laymans terms).
That second bag of juice, the size of a kids juice box, cost $90,000.00 alone.
The three bags total cost $170,000.00

That's TODAY ALONE. with her admittance now overnight to monitor the reactions in the oncology section of inpatient care will bring the 24 hour cost to almost $250,000.00.

And this is the first of 12 weeks.
Our 4K deductible is usually wiped out in the first week of January, and our policies cost me $1200 a month.

Do the math. I can't get my checkbook out fast enough to pay those premiums and deductibles.
My HOUSE wouldn't cover 2 weeks of chemo.

Mind you, I whined about those premiums for 10 full years...then BAM, it happened. Thank GOD she made me pay them all those years.

This sums up the issue... The cost of healthcare is what's out of hand and Obamacare did nothing to change it.

 

[C-2]

This sums up the issue... The cost of healthcare is what's out of hand and Obamacare did nothing to change it.

Exactly.

But, it's alright because we all have family and friends who benefit from the gravy train.

We keep screwing ourselves, I swear.

 

[C-2]

I just checked in to a hotel in San Jose.
Deb started her chemo today at Stanford. Was supposed to be a straight forward, 3 part "long day" in the chair. She got admitted when the initial Herceptin was backed up with a second "blocker" type chemo was started.
It caused "tumor lysis" which is a rapid release of junk into the blood from massive killing of Cancer cells. (In laymans terms).
That second bag of juice, the size of a kids juice box, cost $90,000.00 alone.
The three bags total cost $170,000.00

That's TODAY ALONE. with her admittance now overnight to monitor the reactions in the oncology section of inpatient care will bring the 24 hour cost to almost $250,000.00.

And this is the first of 12 weeks.
Our 4K deductible is usually wiped out in the first week of January, and our policies cost me $1200 a month.

Do the math. I can't get my checkbook out fast enough to pay those premiums and deductibles.
My HOUSE wouldn't cover 2 weeks of chemo.

Mind you, I whined about those premiums for 10 full years...then BAM, it happened. Thank GOD she made me pay them all those years.

That's insane.

Hang in there

 

[C-2]

The Covered California stuff is a joke. I've wasted probably 100+ hours trying to sort it all out.

Somehow, Kaiser put us into the wrong plan after signimng up with Covered CA. So they were supposed to cancel it in March of 14. Well, they didn't. Both parties say call the other guys. So after opening up an erroneous bill in October for $6K, I started calling again. Oops, open enrollment time, they are too busy.

Then they tell me my daughter was put into Medi Cal . Huh?

So fast forward to Feb 15 and Covered Cali tell me, to tell kaiser to f* off as I stare at my $8K bill. I ask both parties WTH is Med Cal and both tell me to stop questioning it, and use it, it's free healthcare. Took my daughter to the Dentist the other day - all free, even ceramic fillings.

I signed up for a new plan with Kaiser, which they recognized, but nope, just got another bill, now the balance is $9K and they are billing me for my daughter too on yet another wrong plan.

An effin' mess, and the phone goes silent when I ask them about the fact since I received a payment subsidy/tax credit - how is that going to be corrected since the credit is being reported to the IRS?

 

[was thatguy]

This sums up the issue... The cost of healthcare is what's out of hand and Obamacare did nothing to change it.

Like I've said all along...Ocare has NOTHING to do with healthcare.
It has to do with so called "coverage" that does NOTHING to provide actual quality, affordable care to anyone, and in fact has REMOVED higher standards of care for more people than not.

We have been entrenched in this Cancer shit for 2 years now and have seen first hand the negative effects of Ocare from the top down.
It is sickening, and there is NO argument that can undo what I have seen with my own 2 eyes, what everyone from patients to doctors to administrators to agents to social workers have shared with me.

 

[OCMerrill]

The Covered California stuff is a joke. I've wasted probably 100+ hours trying to sort it all out.

Somehow, Kaiser put us into the wrong plan after signimng up with Covered CA. So they were supposed to cancel it in March of 14. Well, they didn't. Both parties say call the other guys. So after opening up an erroneous bill in October for $6K, I started calling again. Oops, open enrollment time, they are too busy.

Then they tell me my daughter was put into Medi Cal . Huh?

So fast forward to Feb 15 and Covered Cali tell me, to tell kaiser to f* off as I stare at my $8K bill. I ask both parties WTH is Med Cal and both tell me to stop questioning it, and use it, it's free healthcare. Took my daughter to the Dentist the other day - all free, even ceramic fillings.

I signed up for a new plan with Kaiser, which they recognized, but nope, just got another bill, now the balance is $9K and they are billing me for my daughter too on yet another wrong plan.

An effin' mess, and the phone goes silent when I ask them about the fact since I received a payment subsidy/tax credit - how is that going to be corrected since the credit is being reported to the IRS?

Oh those horror days. The absolute worst way to spend a grand a month was dealing with covered CA. Between them and Kaiser they got things so screwed up it took from Jan to April to sort out. To fix an added vision and dental mistake we had to stop a current plan and restart with the same plan again less those options. Options we never selected. When we did that my wife had a birthday so that stop and start cost me an additional $65 a month.

End result was I really miss my business group plan before Kaiser dropped it and made me buy personal insurance for the same monthly rate but higher out of pockets by 300%, and now meeting calendar year deductibles before other things kick down.

 

[was thatguy]

Oh those horror days. The absolute worst way to spend a grand a month was dealing with covered CA. Between them and Kaiser they got things so screwed up it took from Jan to April to sort out. To fix an added vision and dental mistake we had to stop a current plan and restart with the same plan again less those options. Options we never selected. When we did that my wife had a birthday so that stop and start cost me an additional $65 a month.

End result was I really miss my business group plan before Kaiser dropped it and made me buy personal insurance for the same monthly rate but higher out of pockets by 300%, and now meeting calendar year deductibles before other things kick down.

Our day is coming I fear.
We got grandfathered on our individual blue shield policies, but that's not going to last.

The covered CA patients have dissapeared from the lobby's that we wait in.

Last year my primary's office was supposed to referr me for a cscope. After a few months I called them and asked why I hadn't heard anything yet. The office girl had accidentally put me in the covered ca list. Once she corrected that, I got the call like 2-3 days later.

They just basically refuse to schedule covered ca patients...or the referal and approval process just breaks down to zero movement.

 

[brendellajet]

The part that drives me crazy is that people will take the time to write all about it online, but don't communicate with their local representative. Such a small group of people are active in government, it's no wonder this country is so fucked up. All the people who want real change (not the Obama kind) are too busy whining on the internet.

And please don't take this the wrong way- I feel for anyone that's having to deal with such severe health issues. If all the people with opinions would get off their ass and send some guidance to their local congressman once a month, it would drown out the all the bullshit being spouted from the wack jobs who think Obama care was a good idea.

 

[rivrrts429]

The part that drives me crazy is that people will take the time to write all about it online, but don't communicate with their local representative. Such a small group of people are active in government, it's no wonder this country is so fucked up. All the people who want real change (not the Obama kind) are too busy whining on the internet.

And please don't take this the wrong way- I feel for anyone that's having to deal with such severe health issues. If all the people with opinions would get off their ass and send some guidance to their local congressman once a month, it would drown out the all the bullshit being spouted from the wack jobs who think Obama care was a good idea.

Well... It would have been nice to see the bill before it was passed in the beginning lol

 

[JRS1939]

I'm in the same boat. I haven't had health insurance in over 5 years. I just paid the fine on my taxes ($172) I signed up for the website to check pricing. The cheapest possible plan per month for me was $179 a month. I haven't been to the doctor since before high school. I can't imagine paying out over $2000 a year and never using it. A respectable plan was in the realm of $299 a month for me

 

[was thatguy]

The part that drives me crazy is that people will take the time to write all about it online, but don't communicate with their local representative. Such a small group of people are active in government, it's no wonder this country is so fucked up. All the people who want real change (not the Obama kind) are too busy whining on the internet.

And please don't take this the wrong way- I feel for anyone that's having to deal with such severe health issues. If all the people with opinions would get off their ass and send some guidance to their local congressman once a month, it would drown out the all the bullshit being spouted from the wack jobs who think Obama care was a good idea.

Let's take a look at what happened to this thread.
It is now moved out of the line of sight of anyone who does not visit this section.

Probably after a complaint from one of the members who does NOT want people to see the real life stories that resulted from their heros bs actions. It's easier to defend if it is ignored.

Next will be a post somewhere mocking the members who post here in the political section, just to seal the deal.

This is a microcosm of what happens when any protest of this admins actions are voiced.
There is NO action from anyone that can or will get through the shield of sheep that surround their naked emporer.

So here we are, hidden and silenced yet again.

 

[OCMerrill]

Well... It would have been nice to see the bill before it was passed in the beginning lol

I am sure it was buried deep in 1500 pages of all the other bills that were lumped in. Including a senator raise and who focking knows what else.:rolleyes


As far as being treated different because we were set up with Covered CA - there is no difference. We are in with Kaiser treated the same we have ever been. Covered CA is just a broker so you can get your Tax credits instantly instead of at the end of the year. A disorganized, long hold times, slow website...broker.

 

[BHC Vic]

Our day is coming I fear.
We got grandfathered on our individual blue shield policies, but that's not going to last.

The covered CA patients have dissapeared from the lobby's that we wait in.

Last year my primary's office was supposed to referr me for a cscope. After a few months I called them and asked why I hadn't heard anything yet. The office girl had accidentally put me in the covered ca list. Once she corrected that, I got the call like 2-3 days later.

They just basically refuse to schedule covered ca patients...or the referal and approval process just breaks down to zero movement.

That's weird my plan hasn't changed at all but every few months kaiser should call and schedule Eli's next appt. they don't. I call pissed off they tell me he's not insured. I go off!! I can tell by the way the handle it they get yelled at ALOT. I wait a few minutes they say sorry it's a system error and make the appt. everytime we go through this just did it on tuesday. Weird thing is though when I took him to urgent care last week. 10 bucks no questions asked no insurance issue... Personally I thought the law suit had something to do w it but maybe not.

 

[BHC Vic]

I'm in the same boat. I haven't had health insurance in over 5 years. I just paid the fine on my taxes ($172) I signed up for the website to check pricing. The cheapest possible plan per month for me was $179 a month. I haven't been to the doctor since before high school. I can't imagine paying out over $2000 a year and never using it. A respectable plan was in the realm of $299 a month for me

I'm going to pray u never get hurt. Two years ago I totaled my wife's Honda on the way to work. Complete accident I never saw it coming. After the ambulance ride some x rays and a pain killer do u want to guess what the bill was?? Thank god I was covered and paid only couple hundred. I usually only rock liability because to insure myself w full coverage is nearly impossible. Thank god my wife had full coverage on that car and I wasn't excluded yet

 

[BHC Vic]

Let's take a look at what happened to this thread.
It is now moved out of the line of sight of anyone who does not visit this section.

Probably after a complaint from one of the members who does NOT want people to see the real life stories that resulted from their heros bs actions. It's easier to defend if it is ignored.

Next will be a post somewhere mocking the members who post here in the political section, just to seal the deal.

This is a microcosm of what happens when any protest of this admins actions are voiced.
There is NO action from anyone that can or will get through the shield of sheep that surround their naked emporer.

So here we are, hidden and silenced yet again.

Wasn't hidden on my taptalk. In fact top of the list [emoji106][emoji2]

 

[was thatguy]

That's weird my plan hasn't changed at all but every few months kaiser should call and schedule Eli's next appt. they don't. I call pissed off they tell me he's not insured. I go off!! I can tell by the way the handle it they get yelled at ALOT. I wait a few minutes they say sorry it's a system error and make the appt. everytime we go through this just did it on tuesday. Weird thing is though when I took him to urgent care last week. 10 bucks no questions asked no insurance issue... Personally I thought the law suit had something to do w it but maybe not.

They get yelled at a lot. Like mentioned by OC it is a brokerage. A State run brokerage. :rolleyes

While your plan hasn't changed, and you are in Kaiser, you are part of an HMO that is a different world that Deb and I use.
That's the thing, I pay massive premiums for top care because I, like you, have a job more or less that lets me afford that.
My choice. My money. WHY am I going to be forced to change that?
The providers we use are not playing that game.

Well, actually we fired the entire network in Redding 2 days ago after visiting Stanford. FIRST consultation was Tuesday. INSTANT action and blue shield approval was initiated and chemo was yesterday.
They did more in 48 hours than the network in Redding, bogged down by buracrisy, large numbers of doctors quitting, and and aquasition of Solace and Mercy by dignity health, did in 9 weeks.

I don't know all the technical and semantic accuracy of it all, I only know that when I whip out that blue shield individual PPO card I go to the front of the line.
I am not exaggerating when I say that covered ca patients do not exist in the lobby of our GP. They just will not deal with it.

 

[was thatguy]

Wasn't hidden on my taptalk. In fact top of the list [emoji106][emoji2]

"He zigs...He zags!"

 

[BHC Vic]

No zigging and zagging. I use the unread button on taptalk and majority of the time these damn political threads are on top and the only threads w lots of action. I don't purposely end up here matter of fact I think I make poor RD's life a little harder everytime I end up in here [emoji2]

 

[was thatguy]

No zigging and zagging. I use the unread button on taptalk and majority of the time these damn political threads are on top and the only threads w lots of action. I don't purposely end up here matter of fact I think I make poor RD's life a little harder everytime I end up in here [emoji2]

Oh I wouldn't worry about poor RD!!

Worst that could happen is he might have to get a "real job" one day!!:yikes

 

[BHC Vic]

Oh I wouldn't worry about poor RD!!

Worst that could happen is he might have to get a "real job" one day!!:yikes

Might be easier just to ban me [emoji2][emoji15]

 

[was thatguy]

Might be easier just to ban me [emoji2][emoji15]

If he banned all of us, then he would HAVE to get a real job!

That's the catch 22, and what offers us at least a shred of protection!

 

[OCMerrill]

They get yelled at a lot. Like mentioned by OC it is a brokerage. A State run brokerage. :rolleyes

While your plan hasn't changed, and you are in Kaiser, you are part of an HMO that is a different world that Deb and I use.
That's the thing, I pay massive premiums for top care because I, like you, have a job more or less that lets me afford that.
My choice. My money. WHY am I going to be forced to change that?
The providers we use are not playing that game.

Well, actually we fired the entire network in Redding 2 days ago after visiting Stanford. FIRST consultation was Tuesday. INSTANT action and blue shield approval was initiated and chemo was yesterday.
They did more in 48 hours than the network in Redding, bogged down by buracrisy, large numbers of doctors quitting, and and aquasition of Solace and Mercy by dignity health, did in 9 weeks.

I don't know all the technical and semantic accuracy of it all, I only know that when I whip out that blue shield individual PPO card I go to the front of the line.
I am not exaggerating when I say that covered ca patients do not exist in the lobby of our GP. They just will not deal with it.

Kaiser has done a pretty good job of managing my irregular heartbeat and my wife's issues. We just stay the course but there are two things I won't recommend...

Covered CA - Rather stand in a river of urine.
Kaiser in So Cal - Grossly OVERSOLD largely by Covered CA. Long lines and long referral waits (like a month for a minor procedure) Never been like that before OBUMMERCARE.

Kaiser knows how to extract a dollar, that's for sure.

 

[BHC Vic]

Kaiser has done a pretty good job of managing my irregular heartbeat and my wife's issues. We just stay the course but there are two things I won't recommend...

Covered CA - Rather stand in a river of urine.
Kaiser in So Cal - Grossly OVERSOLD largely by Covered CA. Long lines and long referral waits (like a month for a minor procedure) Never been like that before OBUMMERCARE.

Kaiser knows how to extract a dollar, that's for sure.

I also have a heart thing. Mid valve pro lapse I think? Used to be a small hole and a murmur. Always liked my cardiologist w kaiser

 

[OCMerrill]

I also have a heart thing. Mid valve pro lapse I think? Used to be a small hole and a murmur. Always liked my cardiologist w kaiser

I have extra nerve bundles that are wound through the pacer. If they burn, they will have to burn the pacer and put in one and pace the rhythm electronically.

My Dad passed away from a 100% pacing pacemaker failure. I'm 48....well do that later.

 

[BHC Vic]

I have extra nerve bundles that are wound through the pacer. If they burn, they will have to burn the pacer and put in one and pace the rhythm electronically.

My Dad passed away from a 100% pacing pacemaker failure. I'm 48....well do that later.

Man that's scary. I've always kind of been worried about my heart especially when I get sharpe pains but hopefully it's just muscle strain or gas.

 

[was thatguy]

Kaiser has done a pretty good job of managing my irregular heartbeat and my wife's issues. We just stay the course but there are two things I won't recommend...

Covered CA - Rather stand in a river of urine.
Kaiser in So Cal - Grossly OVERSOLD largely by Covered CA. Long lines and long referral waits (like a month for a minor procedure) Never been like that before OBUMMERCARE.

Kaiser knows how to extract a dollar, that's for sure.

I've heard much the same, although I can't really say as I have not personally been in the Kaiser network.

Deb had Kaiser in her previous marriage for at least 12 years or more and was happy, but that was 12 years ago.
My Grandson that had the brain surgeries was through Kaiser (Daughter is medical) and they actually got him into Stanford for the big surgery.

For families with kids I can see the cost/ care benifit of employee group coverage with Kaiser.
But like you state, I am hearing that it is getting bad as far as effeciency.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

Well, I figured this would end up here!

Anyway, now that it is I can really blast the big O! :grumble::finger

I heard him speaking the other day saying that republicans are against the middle class because they want to repeal O-care. He said it made health care affordable to the middle class! I about shit. I am firmly in the middle class and used to pay $281 for $2K deductible. So now the cost about doubles and the deductible is 2&1/2 times higher. How is that affordable? I do not qualify for any subsidies and instead I get to subsidize all the low lifes that get it for free and then g to the doctor every time they get a sniffle or stub their toe.

 

[was thatguy]

Well, I figured this would end up here!

Anyway, now that it is I can really blast the big O! :grumble::finger

I heard him speaking the other day saying that republicans are against the middle class because they want to repeal O-care. He said it made health care affordable to the middle class! I about shit. I am firmly in the middle class and used to pay $281 for $2K deductible. So now the cost about doubles and the deductible is 2&1/2 times higher. How is that affordable? I do not qualify for any subsidies and instead I get to subsidize all the low lifes that get it for free and then g to the doctor every time they get a sniffle or stub their toe.

That's called affordable in o speak.
Remember, middle class has been redefined.
The goal of the left is to LOWER into equality rather than LIFT into equality.

 

[OCMerrill]

Well, I figured this would end up here!

Anyway, now that it is I can really blast the big O! :grumble::finger

I heard him speaking the other day saying that republicans are against the middle class because they want to repeal O-care. He said it made health care affordable to the middle class! I about shit. I am firmly in the middle class and used to pay $281 for $2K deductible. So now the cost about doubles and the deductible is 2&1/2 times higher. How is that affordable? I do not qualify for any subsidies and instead I get to subsidize all the low lifes that get it for free and then g to the doctor every time they get a sniffle or stub their toe.

I cant understand why more get it? I mean our commander in chief is extremely double minded.

My policy went up, my deductibles went from $3200 max out of pocket to $6400 for an individual, and $12600 for a family. My copays are all 45 bucks including x rays and labs. My $10 scripts are double copay.

Nobody need to change a freaking thing for me. I didn't ask for anything, no marching in a protest, no youtube rants. I earn a living and pay for my medical and my employees as well.

Now its all fucked up and our fearless leader either cant do the math or flat doesn't care. Underachievers however are in prosper mode getting nearly free healthcare because they work a 20 hr week.

What were saying here should have been all over the national news. The issues are real...instead....LAM I'm a hero.

Once everyone gets a clue, examines the debt, and looks at what he's really done...worst leader in history and we've had some bad ones.

 

[GRADS]

Socialized medicine.:thumbup:

 

[spectra3279]

It's all about control.

 

[regor]

I cant understand why more get it? I mean our commander in chief is extremely double minded.

Once everyone gets a clue, examines the debt, and looks at what he's really done...worst leader in history and we've had some bad ones.

If they don't have a clue by now, they never will. I think a good portion of them do, but they don't have the balls to admit they were fools for voting for that scumbag a second time.

 

[boonieslasher]

Wrap ur head around this one....i pay 37500 into my health plan per year and never use it !

 

[OCMerrill]

If they don't have a clue by now, they never will. I think a good portion of them do, but they don't have the balls to admit they were fools for voting for that scumbag a second time.

I think they sit around a huge table once a year, late at night, in their underwear, just singing shit into law as fast as pens will flow ink. If they make an oops its really no big deal. If they dont get re-elected they still get paid. Really, whats the worry?

I am not a political guy. I'm a jokster clown on these boards but lately I am feeling burned up by the assholes that run OUR country. Everywhere you step, hot pile of stupid decision shit.

It's taking my humor away.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

I think they sit around a huge table once a year, late at night, in their underwear, just singing shit into law as fast as pens will flow ink. If they make an oops its really no big deal. If they dont get re-elected they still get paid. Really, whats the worry?

I am not a political guy. I'm a jokster clown on these boards but lately I am feeling burned up by the assholes that run OUR country. Everywhere you step, hot pile of stupid decision shit.

It's taking my humor away.

I think it's more sinister than that. If you look at how this section (P&G) is made fun of, it's indicative of society as a whole. Those of us with passion about our beliefs are labeled as extreme or on the margin. We are told how unhappy we must be to get so aggressive in defending our positions. Nope, that's not it, Its called caring so deeply about the direction of this country, we are willing to engage.

I wish I could go along so fat happy and STUPID that I didn't care and carried an uncaring smile along with me all day. Well, that makes you (the collective) nothing more than a jester for the herd or the village idiot.

These policies are not a mistake and the un-intended consequences are not un-intended. A result of Obamacare will be a thinning of the middle class, downward to just above poverty. Redistributive policies don't and have never worked. They remove the middle class, raise the upper class (as is happening now) and more importantly to the administration, they create a permanent and dependent underclass. (entitlement class) Can you ever see the dependent class voting for politicians whom wish to do away with entitlements?

why do you think O is on the gas so hard for amnesty? If you import a third world population, what is the expected result?

In life there are; Sheep, Sheep Dogs and Wolves.

 

[was thatguy]

I think it's more sinister than that. If you look at how this section (P&G) is made fun of, it's indicative of society as a whole. Those of us with passion about our beliefs are labeled as extreme or on the margin. We are told how unhappy we must be to get so aggressive in defending our positions. Nope, that's not it, Its called caring so deeply about the direction of this country, we are willing to engage.

I wish I could go along so fat happy and STUPID that I didn't care and carried an uncaring smile along with me all day. Well, that makes you (the collective) nothing more than a jester for the herd or the village idiot.

These policies are not a mistake and the un-intended consequences are not un-intended. A result of Obamacare will be a thinning of the middle class, downward to just above poverty. Redistributive policies don't and have never worked. They remove the middle class, raise the upper class (as is happening now) and more importantly to the administration, they create a permanent and dependent underclass. (entitlement class) Can you ever see the dependent class voting for politicians whom wish to do away with entitlements?

why do you think O is on the gas so hard for amnesty? If you import a third world population, what is the expected result?

A more accurate dissertation could not be possible.

You have nailed it perfectly.

 

[500bbc]

I think it's more sinister than that. If you look at how this section (P&G) is made fun of, it's indicative of society as a whole. Those of us with passion about our beliefs are labeled as extreme or on the margin. We are told how unhappy we must be to get so aggressive in defending our positions. Nope, that's not it, Its called caring so deeply about the direction of this country, we are willing to engage.

I wish I could go along so fat happy and STUPID that I didn't care and carried an uncaring smile along with me all day. Well, that makes you (the collective) nothing more than a jester for the herd or the village idiot.

These policies are not a mistake and the un-intended consequences are not un-intended. A result of Obamacare will be a thinning of the middle class, downward to just above poverty. Redistributive policies don't and have never worked. They remove the middle class, raise the upper class (as is happening now) and more importantly to the administration, they create a permanent and dependent underclass. (entitlement class) Can you ever see the dependent class voting for politicians whom wish to do away with entitlements?

why do you think O is on the gas so hard for amnesty? If you import a third world population, what is the expected result?

In life there are; Shepard's, Sheep Dogs and Wolves.

You forgot the bleating sheep, in line for the slaughter, happy for the grass they are fed.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

You forgot the bleating sheep, in line for the slaughter, happy for the grass they are fed.

I wrote it wrong, thanks. I corrected it. Here's the original.

One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me: “Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident.” This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another.

Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.

Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin’s egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful. For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.
“Then there are the wolves,” the old war veteran said, “and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy.” Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

“Then there are sheepdogs,” he went on, “and I’m a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf.” Or, as a sign in one California law enforcement agency put it, “We intimidate those who intimidate others.”

If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen: a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath--a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? Then you are a sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero’s path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.

 

[was thatguy]

The problem is that, these days, a majority of sheep can't grasp the difference between the wolf and the sheepdog.

They both are scary and menacing to the sheep, both have fangs and growl a lot.
Additionally, the wolves actively lobby to paint the sheepdogs as the true wolf, playing on the sheeps fear, and confusing the sheep.
This makes it much easier for the Wolves to divert the attention and attack the sheep as the sheep scream at the sheepdogs.

I give you Furguson as an example.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

The problem is that, these days, a majority of sheep can't grasp the difference between the wolf and the sheepdog.

They both are scary and menacing to the sheep, both have fangs and growl a lot.
Additionally, the wolves actively lobby to paint the sheepdogs as the true wolf, playing on the sheeps fear, and confusing the sheep.
This makes it much easier for the Wolves to divert the attention and attack the sheep as the sheep scream at the sheepdogs.

I give you Furguson as an example.

^^^^^^This^^^^^^

It becomes tiresome at times to make those who will never get it, understand, the Sheepdogs will fight just as hard and argue just as long to defend their rights as you will your own. The followers (sheep) only desire popularity and will sell out their own integrity to fit in and be popular in the crowd (herd). Even if it means attending a dinner party with the Wolves.

 

[spectra3279]

I wrote it wrong, thanks. I corrected it. Here's the original.

One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me: ?Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident.? This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another.

Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.

Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin?s egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful. For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.
?Then there are the wolves,? the old war veteran said, ?and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy.? Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

?Then there are sheepdogs,? he went on, ?and I?m a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf.? Or, as a sign in one California law enforcement agency put it, ?We intimidate those who intimidate others.?

If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen: a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath--a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? Then you are a sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero?s path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.

Very well said.