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Nordic Rage Hull and Speeds

Puller

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So we recently purchased a 2000 Rage, 502 mag, side mount whipple 620 hp, running a 31 pitch prop, single ram hydro steering

Having some serious chine issues above 75 mph. 80 gets out of control pretty easily. Messed with the trim tabs and trim alot. I've driven mostly outboards at 90 and have never had a boat act this way. It chines, then wants to dig the bow in which is sketchy. Hard to explain.

Are these hulls just that unstable at higher speeds or is there something that can help, longer tabs, different prop. I have a different pulley to run 7# of boost as it's at 4.5 now. However adding power is a no go if it can't handle it.
 

Puller

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When it starts walking bad the steering wheel does move from side to side and you cannot hold it straight.
 

chvynhra

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Does it have hydraulic steering? Full or assist?
 

UltraLucky

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Also may be to much tail lift from the prop you are using helping to create the bow steer.
 

Puller

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Also may be to much tail lift from the prop you are using helping to create the bow steer.
It seems that way. 75 mph no trimmed up its stable then when you trim up it hits a point were you feel it lift it picks up about 5 mph instantly but starts to chine almost instantly.

I've heard props can cause this, just not sure what direction to go. I'd like to have a 90+ mph boat and if this hull can't do that I'll have to look at getting rid of it to find something that can handle the speed with more stability. It's a beautiful boat and I don't want anything larger than a 26' as I run a lot of smaller lakes but need the cuddy for over night trips.
 

UltraLucky

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It seems that way. 75 mph no trimmed up its stable then when you trim up it hits a point were you feel it lift it picks up about 5 mph instantly but starts to chine almost instantly.

I've heard props can cause this, just not sure what direction to go. I'd like to have a 90+ mph boat and if this hull can't do that I'll have to look at getting rid of it to find something that can handle the speed with more stability. It's a beautiful boat and I don't want anything larger than a 26' as I run a lot of smaller lakes but need the cuddy for over night trips.
The bow steer sounds like a prop issue. The steering wheel movement sounds like a steering system issue. I have had some decent chine walk and bow steer when trying props but the wheel never was uncontrollable.

Something like a Bravo FS or Rev 4 should help with reducing the tail lift.
 

Puller

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The bow steer sounds like a prop issue. The steering wheel movement sounds like a steering system issue. I have had some decent chine walk and bow steer when trying props but the wheel never was uncontrollable.

Something like a Bravo FS or Rev 4 should help with reducing the tail lift.
We are bleeding the steering system this week to see if that alleviates some of the issue. I'd like to check the pressures also. I plan to put a Mayfair full hydro dual ram setup on it this winter if I keep it.

Need to find a place that does a prop rental or something to try a few different setups out before purchasing. I know Cutting Edge will build one for your boat specifically but I'd be real disappointed if it didn't improve the situation. The prop that's on it was built for the boat, it just has 4 numbers on it so I don't know much about it other than it had to be hand labbed as they didn't have a fixture that fit it when reworking it this spring.
 

DrunkenSailor

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I think Full hydraulic steering will help based on what other heat owners have said. The heats can get squirrelly above 80. The consensus that I have seen is full hydraulic steering is the best fix, smaller prop with less stern lift would probably help considering your burying the bow and tab mounting location parrellel with the hull but further out from the drive. Some of the heats depending on who set it up have the tabs close in to the drive and they don't provide high speed stability to keep the boat from bouncing side to side. Can you share a picture of your tab set up?

Full hydraulic steering and prop size would be my first steps.

I would also reach out to Thane at Nordic.
 

Puller

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I don't have any pictures of the tab setup and the boat is at the shop right now getting some stereo upgrades. I will take some pics when I pick it up on Friday.

I do need to call Nordic anyway to order a new hatch cover. Thanks!
 

02HoWaRd26

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May seem like a joke........ but, have you tried another prop?
I’d say you definitely cannot go wrong going to full hydraulic I’d also suggest a bone stock bravo 28p
And also verify you’re running a right and that the boat for some odd reason wasn’t set up with a Left.
 

Puller

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I can try a 28 off my buddies next time we are out. Not sure I'll be able to duplicate the problem with a 28 as it only happens above 75 mph. I'm not sure a 28 will get me above that, I would think I'd be on the rev limit as I'm at 5000 to 5100 with my 31.

I don't know how to tell if it's been setup for LH prop, I do know the prop that is on the boat has been on it for 10 years and over 150 hours.
 

McKay

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Does your current prop have a bell on it?
 

02HoWaRd26

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I can try a 28 off my buddies next time we are out. Not sure I'll be able to duplicate the problem with a 28 as it only happens above 75 mph. I'm not sure a 28 will get me above that, I would think I'd be on the rev limit as I'm at 5000 to 5100 with my 31.

I don't know how to tell if it's been setup for LH prop, I do know the prop that is on the boat has been on it for 10 years and over 150 hours.
Post a photo of the prop, a quick look will answer L or R. A 28p at 5100rpm and 600+hp should yield you 75+mph easily.

Does your current prop have a bell on it?
I'm sorry, I don't know what that is. I'm a novice when it comes to props.
the diffuser ring, the center section of the prop, not the ears/blades is it blunt cut close to the blades or does it come out and then get wider.
 

02HoWaRd26

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I'm sorry, I don't know what that is. I'm a novice when it comes to props.
The diffuser is not removable, however depending upon the needs of the prop (more bow lift, more transom lift) the removal, or adding to the diffuser will be welded on or cut off during a lab. And people buy and sell props as a labbed all the time even though a Prop’erly labbed prop will be labbed for the needs of the specific boat.
D563DF8F-0117-4AD5-B9F1-4E950F27E9A6.jpeg
 

Puller

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I think Full hydraulic steering will help based on what other heat owners have said. The heats can get squirrelly above 80. The consensus that I have seen is full hydraulic steering is the best fix, smaller prop with less stern lift would probably help considering your burying the bow and tab mounting location parrellel with the hull but further out from the drive. Some of the heats depending on who set it up have the tabs close in to the drive and they don't provide high speed stability to keep the boat from bouncing side to side. Can you share a picture of your tab set up?

Full hydraulic steering and prop size would be my first steps.

I would also reach out to Thane at Nordic.
I took a picture out of a video I had.
 

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HavaToon

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That is all I have right now.
That appears to be a Hyrdomotive quad IV and if so it is completely wrong for your boat. Quad IV is for boats with natural bow lift and it’s design lifts the tail.

I would absolutely get ahold of a bone stock Bravo one 28-31 and try that. Willing to bet it drastically reduces the chime walk.


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Puller

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That appears to be a Hyrdomotive quad IV and if so it is completely wrong for your boat. Quad IV is for boats with natural bow lift and it’s design lifts the tail.

I would absolutely get ahold of a bone stock Bravo one 28-31 and try that. Willing to bet it drastically reduces the chime walk.


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Thank you, I have no idea as the prop has no markings on it. I have access to a 28 to try and if it helps alot I will go that route or may consider having a prop built for my boat specifically.
 

UltraLucky

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A 28 pitch prop at 5000rpm with 10%slip should be good for 80mph
A 31 at 5000rpm and 10% slip is close to 90(88).
 

Puller

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A 28 pitch prop at 5000rpm with 10%slip should be good for 80mph
A 31 at 5000rpm and 10% slip is close to 90(88).
I've been 84 with 2 people, full tanks on the 31 but it was getting real wild. Ultimately a 31 at 5400 rpms is where I'd like to be. 90 plus with some controllable chine is okay. I'd like it rock solid at 85. Be interesting to see what the 28 does this weekend.

10% slip seems extremely low or is this average for a I/O.
 

HavaToon

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Also FYI Teague did a bunch of testing with the Mercury Max 5 and I think some of it was on a Nordic heat or rage...it was a way faster prop and better cruise than any four blade.


Watch this around 18 minutes



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DrunkenSailor

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Hill marine has a way cheaper option to the max 5. I would give ron hill a call for a new prop. I actually think his son is running things these days. Either way about half the price of a max 5. I agree I think your running the wrong prop.

I also think full hydraulic steering and your gonna be in a much better place. A tres Martin course couldn't hurt either deep V's with steps are a different animal. I think with some setup your gonna be good if your used to running 90+.
 

02HoWaRd26

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That appears to be a Hyrdomotive quad IV and if so it is completely wrong for your boat. Quad IV is for boats with natural bow lift and it’s design lifts the tail.

I would absolutely get ahold of a bone stock Bravo one 28-31 and try that. Willing to bet it drastically reduces the chime walk.


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The Quad IV doesn’t have a diffuser ring, at least none that I’ve owned. But otherwise my first thought as well was a Hydromotive.
I’d bet the stock 28 Bravo would be so much happier on that boat tho. Even better a Max 5

I've been 84 with 2 people, full tanks on the 31 but it was getting real wild. Ultimately a 31 at 5400 rpms is where I'd like to be. 90 plus with some controllable chine is okay. I'd like it rock solid at 85. Be interesting to see what the 28 does this weekend.

10% slip seems extremely low or is this average for a I/O.
i don’t want to sound like a dick, but real talk, you need the boat to be in control and safe long before you keep thinking about fast. We all want faster but .........
 

Puller

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i don’t want to sound like a dick, but real talk, you need the boat to be in control and safe long before you keep thinking about fast. We all want faster but .........
[/QUOTE]

That is why I'm asking questions and trying to get it figured out. If the boat hull isn't capable of doing what I want safely I'll sell it and find one that will. I have only pushed it hard 3-4 times trying some different trim tab settings. I could easily put on my other pulley and make 700 plus but it's pointless until its controllable.
 

McKay

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Ya get your hands on a bravo one stock prop to try. That’s kind of the baseline prop to try then go from there. And the prop you have in the pic has a bell/diffuser. That is goin to give stern lift and it sounds like you have too much of that.
 

Mikes56

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So we recently purchased a 2000 Rage, 502 mag, side mount whipple 620 hp, running a 31 pitch prop, single ram hydro steering

Having some serious chine issues above 75 mph. 80 gets out of control pretty easily. Messed with the trim tabs and trim alot. I've driven mostly outboards at 90 and have never had a boat act this way. It chines, then wants to dig the bow in which is sketchy. Hard to explain.

Are these hulls just that unstable at higher speeds or is there something that can help, longer tabs, different prop. I have a different pulley to run 7# of boost as it's at 4.5 now. However adding power is a no go if it can't handle it.
I bought a brand new Rage from Nordic, I forget what year. It would do 72 mph with a stock 496HO, but would chine walk when it was trimmed up to do that speed. The chine walk would get more severe until I trimmed down, then it would lessen or stop.
Hope this helps.
 

McKay

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I had a heat that would start chine walking between 75-80. Tried a Bravo FS prop and it stopped. (No diffuser ring) This was before Max 5 where out. Heard in the above Teague video he said if you have a heat and don't run a max 5 your missing out. Might be the same with the Rage? I would call them. They know their shit when it come to proping specific boats.
 

ONE-A-DAY

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Get rid of the assist, your control to the helm is based on a stretched out 20 year old cable. My 26 Daytona did the same thing with assist, it’s about $3500 for the upgrade to full hydro.
 

McKay

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Get rid of the assist, your control to the helm is based on a stretched out 20 year old cable. My 26 Daytona did the same thing with assist, it’s about $3500 for the upgrade to full hydro.
Totally agree on this, my Heat only had hydraulic to the transom. I added it to the helm. Night and day difference. Was easy to do as well. IMCO's service was awesome for tech support too.
 

Bill Sidney

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Totally agree on this, my Heat only had hydraulic to the transom. I added it to the helm. Night and day difference. Was easy to do as well. IMCO's service was awesome for tech support too.
Like all vee bottoms of this size say 22 to 26 they all tend to do this.If Nordic can get there 21 Sr to run 130 + they can get the 25 to work.All things considered that boat was built for a mid size family/ performance boat 75 in a narrow beam boat is really good.
 

Mcob25rg

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Nordic Rage, factory 496HO, 26” Bravo 4, 72 mph om GPS, handles perfect. I really cannot see this being really stable at the speeds you are running. It really bow steers if you cut the speed quickly, to the point of dangerous if you aren’t expecting it. Nordic doesn’t build these from the factory with monster power for a reason.
 

Puller

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Thanks for the reply's, I'm going to start with some prop trials. Trying hard to source a max 5 to try before spending $2k to find out there isn't much change. I've got a 28 bravo to try but I'd like to source a 30 also.

If the prop adds more control I'll put full hydro on this winter when we are freshening the outdrive.

I'll post back results after the weekend as we'll be out testing props on two boats. Buddy wants to try my 31 for more lift on his procharged checkmate that we are finally turning up the boost on.
 

Puller

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Nordic Rage, factory 496HO, 26” Bravo 4, 72 mph om GPS, handles perfect. I really cannot see this being really stable at the speeds you are running. It really bow steers if you cut the speed quickly, to the point of dangerous if you aren’t expecting it. Nordic doesn’t build these from the factory with monster power for a reason.
Yes they do, had some butt pucker the first time I lifted too fast, still trying to get a good feel on this boat. I've ran pickle outboards at 90 and this is my first I/O, they drive very different. I could put an out board on the edge and feel completely in control of what was going on. My buddies 28 Checkmate is rock solid at 80 and drives unbelievable better than mine even without full hydro. He is also shooting for 90 as we are creeping up on the power. He just had it built so he's a little gun shy after all the coin spent lol!
 

02HoWaRd26

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Thanks for the reply's, I'm going to start with some prop trials. Trying hard to source a max 5 to try before spending $2k to find out there isn't much change. I've got a 28 bravo to try but I'd like to source a 30 also.

If the prop adds more control I'll put full hydro on this winter when we are freshening the outdrive.

I'll post back results after the weekend as we'll be out testing props on two boats. Buddy wants to try my 31 for more lift on his procharged checkmate that we are finally turning up the boost on.
I still think a stock 28 with your 600hp will be the key. A Bravo 30 is a big wheel to spin on that boat with that drive and power.
Remember just because it’s stamped with 31p doesn’t mean that prop is necessarily a true 31p. Looks like it’s been worked quite a bit, and only the guy who worked it will know what why and how.
 

Mcob25rg

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The bottom is designed to arieate, which it does. I can really see what’s going on when I ski behind it. Really not much glass in the water above 40 - only v bottom I’ve ever been in that coasts down like my Daytona 25 did, so I KNOW there’s a bunch of air getting to the back. I really think about it at WOT - I doubt it will hold at 72 with any serious steering input, so I pick my spots, but that’s also why its so efficient with 496HO. Try and get 72mph out of any other true 25 with that power. My buddies Outlaw barely sees 60 - same length and power
 

Puller

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Well we tested the 28 FS out. Seems to be a bit more stable but honestly it was barely getting to the speed where things start going on. Definitely a slower prop at cruise speeds. I couldn't trim up much because I was on the rev limiter at 78 mph. Seems like a 30 would be closer. Switched to my original prop later in the day, much smoother out and ran 83 before it was on the edge. Not alot left in it for power anyway but was still gaining as I trimmed up. Water was in great shape for my hull it seemed as that's the most stability it's had at 80 plus.

Got bblades sending a couple of props to test next weekend that should help. Gonna put my other pulley on the supercharger and see how that goes with the 700 hp setup on it. If I'm buying a prop, I want it setup for my highest power setup. I don't use it all the time mostly cruise at 50-60 but once or twice a day for maybe 30 seconds. I'm not that guy that holds it wide open for miles or constantly it's not my thing.
 
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