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OB Idea, Maybe A Good One...

monkeyswrench

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So, Merc announcement thread got me thinking again. Me being a hot rod/car guy, I was drawn to the Seven Marine LS based concept. It's a motor that is pretty basic, but has some very good attributes. Now, their design is F'n complex. With complexities, comes more potential points of failure.

About a year ago, I downloaded the Merc parts catalog, with diagrams and such. Trying to broaden my horizons, and see what makes the outboards tick. This last summer, I got the chance to do maintenance on a pair of 350's. Really cool. Never had the chance to really be around them before.

Now, what I am wondering is this: why couldn't someone convert an Ls platform to a dry sump setup, and mount it like an out board power head? Seven Marine runs a chain driven transfer case assembly to redirect powerflow. It just seems to be a less efficient way of doing things. Dry sump setups are not very complex in comparison...and essentially the modern OB's are already.

I'd love to guinea pig this setup, but used lowers for the big Mercs are a bit out of my play money budget.

Good idea? Bad idea? Is there something wrong with the thought process, something I'm missing?
 

Flying_Lavey

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So, Merc announcement thread got me thinking again. Me being a hot rod/car guy, I was drawn to the Seven Marine LS based concept. It's a motor that is pretty basic, but has some very good attributes. Now, their design is F'n complex. With complexities, comes more potential points of failure.

About a year ago, I downloaded the Merc parts catalog, with diagrams and such. Trying to broaden my horizons, and see what makes the outboards tick. This last summer, I got the chance to do maintenance on a pair of 350's. Really cool. Never had the chance to really be around them before.

Now, what I am wondering is this: why couldn't someone convert an Ls platform to a dry sump setup, and mount it like an out board power head? Seven Marine runs a chain driven transfer case assembly to redirect powerflow. It just seems to be a less efficient way of doing things. Dry sump setups are not very complex in comparison...and essentially the modern OB's are already.

I'd love to guinea pig this setup, but used lowers for the big Mercs are a bit out of my play money budget.

Good idea? Bad idea? Is there something wrong with the thought process, something I'm missing?
The LS7/LS9 from the Vette Z06/ZR1 is already dry sumped from the factory.... if that helps ya at all.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
 

Shlbyntro

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So, Merc announcement thread got me thinking again. Me being a hot rod/car guy, I was drawn to the Seven Marine LS based concept. It's a motor that is pretty basic, but has some very good attributes. Now, their design is F'n complex. With complexities, comes more potential points of failure.

About a year ago, I downloaded the Merc parts catalog, with diagrams and such. Trying to broaden my horizons, and see what makes the outboards tick. This last summer, I got the chance to do maintenance on a pair of 350's. Really cool. Never had the chance to really be around them before.

Now, what I am wondering is this: why couldn't someone convert an Ls platform to a dry sump setup, and mount it like an out board power head? Seven Marine runs a chain driven transfer case assembly to redirect powerflow. It just seems to be a less efficient way of doing things. Dry sump setups are not very complex in comparison...and essentially the modern OB's are already.

I'd love to guinea pig this setup, but used lowers for the big Mercs are a bit out of my play money budget.

Good idea? Bad idea? Is there something wrong with the thought process, something I'm missing?

I have thought this very same thing, and there are only 3 reasonable answers i can come up with.

The first being transmission. The clutch dogs in the lowers can only handle so much and I feel like they're already pushing the limits. Evinrude had gotten back to the idea of Electric shift on their last engines which seemed to be hold up pretty well albeit an absolute bitch to service. Personally what I would like to see is a modified lower unit designed to use a cone clutch in place of a clutch dog for these high hp applications.

The second would be oil accumulation in the valve covers/on top of the heads. I know were talking about going dry sump. But LS engines like just about all automotive engines are designed to use gravity to help the oil get back to the sump. If we were to stand it up on end, I dont see that oil making it back to where its supposed to very easily. I do suppose we could design some special valve covers with alternate drains that can drain directly into the new sump in the mid section....

We would also have to likely do some serious modification to the flywheel so as not to be massive and the heat transfer properties of the engine would be a mess with water trying to flow up to the top of the engine from the drive, back down the water jackets to the bottom, then back up the cylinder heads, then back down the exhaust again. Maybe design new heads in a hot-V configuration to help?? Then there's the whole lack of internal anode protection thing for the raw water thats flowing through the all aluminum block and heads....

Much of the original LS is butchered by the time you account for everything and all you end up with is a short block with everything else changed. Better to design a purpose built from scratch IMO, but thats just my opinion.




Oh also, it's an LS. Fuck those things.🤮
 

bonesfab

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The dry sump would work good. I don't think a factory set up will cut it. Oil return is easy. A scavenge in each head and run a Dailey engineering pan and pump. Thrust would have to be contained in the drive and run a Clutch type set up. So lets take this a step forward and build a mid with a powerglide in it.
 

monkeyswrench

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The thrust issue I had given a little bit of thought too. Was thinking of a roller thrust assembly utilizing the coupling/adapter between the motor and drive.
Oiling I wasn't sure of...I've never run a dry sump vertical for any length of time. It's a theory, maybe a scavenging pump to help remove oil from valve covers? Big -10 drain lines? The cooling paths are a mystery to me. Hadn't looked into it, but I've seen some of the dirt track guys running water ports into the block water jackets, and end of heads.
Now, a Powerglide in the mid section...interesting. Wouldn't need the same clamping characteristics as a drag car...Hmm...wet clutches could be used to soften the engagement, or do powerflow reversal in the mid, and leave the prop shaft direct....
 

monkeyswrench

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@Shlbyntro An LS is cheap, and plentiful. If one grenades, the long blocks are easily replaced or rebuilt...that's why the thought crossed my mind. Just a modern sbc, and we have seen them put in everything over the years. So, why not?
 

Shlbyntro

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@Shlbyntro An LS is cheap, and plentiful. If one grenades, the long blocks are easily replaced or rebuilt...that's why the thought crossed my mind. Just a modern sbc, and we have seen them put in everything over the years. So, why not?

I don't have anything against the mechanics of the engine. But, I hate what they've done to the classic car/hotrod industry. An engine is as important as the rest of the car when it comes down to it. A car has a soul and the engine is part of that. And like you said LSs are cheap and plentiful. There is no soul in cheap and plentiful. As much care should be spent on building the engine in a car as on building the car itself. So when I hear someone say "LS swap it" it genuinely hurts me because it takes away the soul of the vehicle and for that reason, it has just caused me to hate all LSs in general, not because they're bad engines, but because of how people haphazardly use them to (imo) butcher and destroy otherwise beautiful works of art.

As for the vertical standing outboard. I'll go back to all the changes you would have to make to turn it into a proper outboard platform. But I suppose a lesson could be taken from Honda as they've done it with there smaller engines
 

monkeyswrench

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I don't have anything against the mechanics of the engine. But, I hate what they've done to the classic car/hotrod industry. An engine is as important as the rest of the car when it comes down to it. A car has a soul and the engine is part of that. And like you said LSs are cheap and plentiful. There is no soul in cheap and plentiful. As much care should be spent on building the engine in a car as on building the car itself. So when I hear someone say "LS swap it" it genuinely hurts me because it takes away the soul of the vehicle and for that reason, it has just caused me to hate all LSs in general, not because they're bad engines, but because of how people haphazardly use them to (imo) butcher and destroy otherwise beautiful works of art.

As for the vertical standing outboard. I'll go back to all the changes you would have to make to turn it into a proper outboard platform. But I suppose a lesson could be taken from Honda as they've done it with there smaller engines
I understand the "purity" aspect. I was a Ford in a Ford guy. I do however find it comical that people use the "soul" of the car concept, or being against using something because it is cheaper. If we all felt that way, there would be no fiberglass reproduction bodies...would they not be a "soul-less" clone of the original?

I'm not a purist. I like to go fast, and prefer gasoline to do it. An engine is an engine...well, except Wankels...but they're still fun.
 

bonesfab

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I don't have anything against the mechanics of the engine. But, I hate what they've done to the classic car/hotrod industry. An engine is as important as the rest of the car when it comes down to it. A car has a soul and the engine is part of that. And like you said LSs are cheap and plentiful. There is no soul in cheap and plentiful. As much care should be spent on building the engine in a car as on building the car itself. So when I hear someone say "LS swap it" it genuinely hurts me because it takes away the soul of the vehicle and for that reason, it has just caused me to hate all LSs in general, not because they're bad engines, but because of how people haphazardly use them to (imo) butcher and destroy otherwise beautiful works of art.

As for the vertical standing outboard. I'll go back to all the changes you would have to make to turn it into a proper outboard platform. But I suppose a lesson could be taken from Honda as they've done it with there smaller engines

Don't take this wrong but the ls engine has done more for the hobby than most realize. Cheap affordable easily boosted and pretty reliable. Machine shops are a dying thing. There is machine shop jail now a days right along with paint jail. I can order 430-525 hp and have it delivered in 3-4 days instead of 3-4 months. and it is reliable with a warranty.
 

MeCasa16

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I believe the collective knowledge of the guys in this conversation and on this board could accomplish this task. I would be of no help, but I would enjoy being the Hype man for it. Like Flav A Flav talking smack at the doctagon.
 

Shlbyntro

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I understand the "purity" aspect. I was a Ford in a Ford guy. I do however find it comical that people use the "soul" of the car concept, or being against using something because it is cheaper. If we all felt that way, there would be no fiberglass reproduction bodies...would they not be a "soul-less" clone of the original?

I'm not a purist. I like to go fast, and prefer gasoline to do it. An engine is an engine...well, except Wankels...but they're still fun.

Its all in how you prioritize things and the soul in the car comes from the care and attention given to it by whoever built it. I try and find the best balance as I can. Would I have preferred an aluminum cobra, absolutely! But I sure as hell can't afford the extra $100,000 they cost. Do I think that the originals have a soul? Yes. Do I think my car will have one too? Yes, but it will be a decidedly different one, one that I've put into it by the care and devotion I've put into building it, including the engine. If every car is running the same darn cheap/plentiful engine, then where is the soul?? They all run and perform the same. You can only do so much with an electronic tuner to make it "uniquely yours"

How someone can bring themselves to spend multiple tens of thousands of dollars on custom body work and upholstery and then take the cheap and easy way out on a cookie cutter LS engine just floors me. But I digress, back to the LS outboard
 

monkeyswrench

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Its all in how you prioritize things and the soul in the car comes from the care and attention given to it by whoever built it. I try and find the best balance as I can. Would I have preferred an aluminum cobra, absolutely! But I sure as hell can't afford the extra $100,000 they cost. Do I think that the originals have a soul? Yes. Do I think my car will have one too? Yes, but it will be a decidedly different one, one that I've put into it by the care and devotion I've put into building it, including the engine. If every car is running the same darn cheap/plentiful engine, then where is the soul?? They all run and perform the same. You can only do so much with an electronic tuner to make it "uniquely yours"

How someone can bring themselves to spend multiple tens of thousands of dollars on custom body work and upholstery and then take the cheap and easy way out on a cookie cutter LS engine just floors me. But I digress, back to the LS outboard
I think the "soul" of the car, boat...semi-truck...is what the owner puts into it. I've wandered around lowrider and minitruck shows. Not my thing, but damn, they put more than just money in to their rides. Same with full bagger bikes. In boat terms, whatever floats it, right?

Now, LS outboard...6-700hp OB would be pretty cool. The Merc motors are F'ing badass. Badass comes with a massive pricetag. So, what about a tuned 6 or 6.2 making 4-500hp, and a more attainable price? The LS platform has been very durable, I've pulled down truck motors that had 250k on them, and still had crosshatch in the bores. This tells me their maching has become pretty damn good, the metallurgy has improved, and they figured out low ring tension.

Change the valve covers, and build a custom intake...put some new name on the cowling. We don't have to tell anybody it's an LS.
 

bonesfab

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You can get 550-600 hp on 91 octane naturally asperated. so make the power glide mid section go to a #6 lower and we might be on to something. Hearing an outboard shift would be pretty cool shit.
 

jeepdog

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I believe the collective knowledge of the guys in this conversation and on this board could accomplish this task. I would be of no help, but I would enjoy being the Hype man for it. Like Flav A Flav talking smack at the doctagon.
They will build it, we will market it and sell it.
I'm in;)
 

coolchange

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I like Sevens. If only for the rediculousness.😳
By the time you modify the motor for 90 degree change, then you have to build the lower to accept it, seems easier to just use the stock platform ( warranty) and only do a lower.
Chain doesn’t bother me, been used for years. Is it complicated? Ya! No more so than 4wd or awd.
No one addresses torque steer? How do the big OBs handle it?
There have been rotary ob swaps that I think are neat. My favorite is a Corvair. That would be fairly easy.
 

Shlbyntro

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I like Sevens. If only for the rediculousness.😳
By the time you modify the motor for 90 degree change, then you have to build the lower to accept it, seems easier to just use the stock platform ( warranty) and only do a lower.
Chain doesn’t bother me, been used for years. Is it complicated? Ya! No more so than 4wd or awd.
No one addresses torque steer? How do the big OBs handle it?
There have been rotary ob swaps that I think are neat. My favorite is a Corvair. That would be fairly easy.

No-Feedback electric boosted hydraulic steering. The new big mercs have it built into the mid section but Seastar has a complete kit that can be fitted to just about any outboard/inboard configuration. (It can also be tied into your GPS for autopilot)
 

PlanB

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Its all in how you prioritize things and the soul in the car comes from the care and attention given to it by whoever built it. I try and find the best balance as I can. Would I have preferred an aluminum cobra, absolutely! But I sure as hell can't afford the extra $100,000 they cost. Do I think that the originals have a soul? Yes. Do I think my car will have one too? Yes, but it will be a decidedly different one, one that I've put into it by the care and devotion I've put into building it, including the engine. If every car is running the same darn cheap/plentiful engine, then where is the soul?? They all run and perform the same. You can only do so much with an electronic tuner to make it "uniquely yours"

How someone can bring themselves to spend multiple tens of thousands of dollars on custom body work and upholstery and then take the cheap and easy way out on a cookie cutter LS engine just floors me. But I digress, back to the LS outboard

You don't want an aluminum Cobra. I have had two "incidents" in mine over the years that were costly enough to fix with a glass body. It's already a PITA to park it somewhere and not have some chick bounce a purse of of it (the paint is still expensive). With an aluminum car, I would never take it anywhere.

As far as engines, I agree. I was a GM guy, but there is no way I would put a GM motor in a Ford.
 

monkeyswrench

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I like Sevens. If only for the rediculousness.😳
By the time you modify the motor for 90 degree change, then you have to build the lower to accept it, seems easier to just use the stock platform ( warranty) and only do a lower.
Chain doesn’t bother me, been used for years. Is it complicated? Ya! No more so than 4wd or awd.
No one addresses torque steer? How do the big OBs handle it?
There have been rotary ob swaps that I think are neat. My favorite is a Corvair. That would be fairly easy.
I am all for the ridiculous aspect. The deal with the Sevens isn't just the chain drive. It's the chain bouncing powerflow 180 degrees under the motor, into a ZF transmission, then sending power 90 degrees down to the prop, and another 90 degree turn...that's a whole lot of monkey motion. I think that one of the advantages to a traditional OB is the single redirection of power. That being said, I have no idea, I may be talking out of my ass. I am a fan of the Tim Taylor, "Home Improvement" method of modification. That being the case, more power is better.

If the "long block" could be left relatively intact, it would cut down on lead time for replacement. That would also make it easier for the more "common folk" to have spare power heads available. Even a shop could keep one or two in stock, without having to shelve 20-50k in capital.

@bonesfab , shifting gears on water is really pretty cool. An OB shifting gears would get some looks! The factory ECM could be programed to actuate a shift solenoid at a given rpm. That would be a learning curve, depending on prop and hull...I think. The good part would be the ability to change those parameters with a laptop, and not valves, orifice and spring combos, like the old Glides.
 

Justfishing

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I have thought this very same thing, and there are only 3 reasonable answers i can come up with.

The first being transmission. The clutch dogs in the lowers can only handle so much and I feel like they're already pushing the limits. Evinrude had gotten back to the idea of Electric shift on their last engines which seemed to be hold up pretty well albeit an absolute bitch to service. Personally what I would like to see is a modified lower unit designed to use a cone clutch in place of a clutch dog for these high hp applications.

The second would be oil accumulation in the valve covers/on top of the heads. I know were talking about going dry sump. But LS engines like just about all automotive engines are designed to use gravity to help the oil get back to the sump. If we were to stand it up on end, I dont see that oil making it back to where its supposed to very easily. I do suppose we could design some special valve covers with alternate drains that can drain directly into the new sump in the mid section....

We would also have to likely do some serious modification to the flywheel so as not to be massive and the heat transfer properties of the engine would be a mess with water trying to flow up to the top of the engine from the drive, back down the water jackets to the bottom, then back up the cylinder heads, then back down the exhaust again. Maybe design new heads in a hot-V configuration to help?? Then there's the whole lack of internal anode protection thing for the raw water thats flowing through the all aluminum block and heads....

Much of the original LS is butchered by the time you account for everything and all you end up with is a short block with everything else changed. Better to design a purpose built from scratch IMO, but thats just my opinion.




Oh also, it's an LS. Fuck those things.🤮
Isnt seven marine and ls block
 

Crazyhippy

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Need to keep duty cycle in mind. Not many LS will run flat out for hours on end. And the update needed to make it doable isn't budget friendly.
 

monkeyswrench

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Need to keep duty cycle in mind. Not many LS will run flat out for hours on end. And the update needed to make it doable isn't budget friendly.
What's kind of odd, last week I was talking with a fellow that used to work for GM, and then Ford, in their "Powertrain" divisions. He and I were talking about all things piston. He's an old school badass. He builds early motors for people now as a hobby. He had said oiling and keeping the motors from using oil were the biggest concerns. I had told him about some of the videos I'd seen, like TCM dyno pullso_O...sounds that frighten me. He laughed and said that's how things should be done. "500hp for 5 seconds is nothing, 500hp for 5 minutes...lets you know if it was assembled right. Start a clock, and walk away..."

These are some of the things that are new ground for me. I have no idea how long a basically stock LS would last. I think it would be fun to find out though.
 

bonesfab

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The rods would be the biggest issue in my opinion. Being powdered metal. Talking with Kenny Dutweiler while he was doing the engines for Speed Demon.. He would do a Full Bonneville run on the dyno with gear changes and all. 2400-3000 hp for 3-4 minutes.
 

Shlbyntro

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Fwiw, the new Volvo inboard engines are LS based and will hold 5,500rpm under full load all day long and I know they don't go into the internals when they purchase them from GM. They're using iron motors tho
 

monkeyswrench

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Fwiw, the new Volvo inboard engines are LS based and will hold 5,500rpm under full load all day long and I know they don't go into the internals when they purchase them from GM. They're using iron motors tho
Haven't actually seen one in person yet. Unfortunately, the redneck/homeboy hotline has not had a lot of luck with the aluminum blocks and big power. In their defense, big bottles or turbos, but the end results have been glitter factories. Somewhere between stripper and anti-sieze when draining the oil. That is also with less "controlled and knowledgeable" people at the helm.

I have seen stock rods do well for 2 seasons of stupidity at the dunes with what I consider pretty high boost, 22-23lbs. That's pretty impressive, knowing how stupid that thing was driven. Bearings didn't even look bad.
 

Racey

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What's kind of odd, last week I was talking with a fellow that used to work for GM, and then Ford, in their "Powertrain" divisions. He and I were talking about all things piston. He's an old school badass. He builds early motors for people now as a hobby. He had said oiling and keeping the motors from using oil were the biggest concerns. I had told him about some of the videos I'd seen, like TCM dyno pullso_O...sounds that frighten me. He laughed and said that's how things should be done. "500hp for 5 seconds is nothing, 500hp for 5 minutes...lets you know if it was assembled right. Start a clock, and walk away..."

These are some of the things that are new ground for me. I have no idea how long a basically stock LS would last. I think it would be fun to find out though.

That's how Brummett dynos the big ass Turbo Motors he builds, one of the few guys in the world that has a dyno that can hold back 2,000 lbs/ft of torque continually, and he has two of them freight trained and can lock them both up, or just run one at a time.

Once the oil is warmed up he will park a motor at 7,000rpm+ making 20lbs of boost and just let it stay there for minutes. It's insane to see in person.

But when you have water brakes that weigh 2,000lbs each, not 200 lbs like a superflow, you can do crazy shit like that 😎
 

Flying_Lavey

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I don't have anything against the mechanics of the engine. But, I hate what they've done to the classic car/hotrod industry. An engine is as important as the rest of the car when it comes down to it. A car has a soul and the engine is part of that. And like you said LSs are cheap and plentiful. There is no soul in cheap and plentiful. As much care should be spent on building the engine in a car as on building the car itself. So when I hear someone say "LS swap it" it genuinely hurts me because it takes away the soul of the vehicle and for that reason, it has just caused me to hate all LSs in general, not because they're bad engines, but because of how people haphazardly use them to (imo) butcher and destroy otherwise beautiful works of art.

As for the vertical standing outboard. I'll go back to all the changes you would have to make to turn it into a proper outboard platform. But I suppose a lesson could be taken from Honda as they've done it with there smaller engines
I could introduce to quite a few OG hot rodders that would laugh at your theory. Or we can point to another car mentioned in this thread that abandoned the factory engine in favor of bigger power from another brand...... the AC Cobra. I'm pretty sure Shelby didn't care he was taking the factory engine and "soul" out of that car. Or the thousands of small block Chevy swapped hot rods built through the decades.

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monkeyswrench

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I could introduce to quite a few OG hot rudders that would laugh at your theory. Or we can point to another car mentioned in this thread that abandoned the factory engine in favor of bigger power from another brand...... the AC Cobra. I'm pretty sure Shelby didn't care he was taking the factory engine and "soul" out of that car. Or the thousands of small block Chevy swapped hot rods built through the decades.

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That's funny, I'd forgotten about the little sewing machine motor the AC Bristol had stock.
 

Shlbyntro

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I could introduce to quite a few OG hot rodders that would laugh at your theory. Or we can point to another car mentioned in this thread that abandoned the factory engine in favor of bigger power from another brand...... the AC Cobra. I'm pretty sure Shelby didn't care he was taking the factory engine and "soul" out of that car. Or the thousands of small block Chevy swapped hot rods built through the decades.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

That little sewing machine motor (the Bristol) was discontinued and became unavailable. AC had stuck another heavier and less powerful engine of their own in the car which caused sales to plummet and the AC roadster was set to be discontinued before Shelby came along. Slightly different circumstances than what we were talking about i think
 

monkeyswrench

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That little sewing machine motor (the Bristol) was discontinued and became unavailable. AC had stuck another heavier and less powerful engine of their own in the car which caused sales to plummet and the AC roadster was set to be discontinued before Shelby came along. Slightly different circumstances than what we were talking about i think
Yes, but Mr. Shelby even went from the 289...which was probably still pretty stout, to the 427. More power, kind of an evolution.
In the words of the venerable "Ricky Bobby",
"Hot, Nasty Speed."
At the end of the day, I'd do a Suzuki or Briggs motor if it had potential. My goal for this mental excercise is to "bench-race"/theoretically build, a concept for a 500+hp OB for less than the going figures for the current options.

...and all of us, no matter how dyed in the wool, Ford blue we are, or fans of the legend, Mr Shelby...










Will ignore the Shelby Daytonas...
 

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That's how Brummett dynos the big ass Turbo Motors he builds, one of the few guys in the world that has a dyno that can hold back 2,000 lbs/ft of torque continually, and he has two of them freight trained and can lock them both up, or just run one at a time.

Once the oil is warmed up he will park a motor at 7,000rpm+ making 20lbs of boost and just let it stay there for minutes. It's insane to see in person.

But when you have water brakes that weigh 2,000lbs each, not 200 lbs like a superflow, you can do crazy shit like that 😎
I kind of close one eye and scrunch my face up and back away when I’ve seen him make those pulls. Definitely not bangIn the dyno for some peak number
 

Flying_Lavey

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Yes, but Mr. Shelby even went from the 289...which was probably still pretty stout, to the 427. More power, kind of an evolution.
In the words of the venerable "Ricky Bobby",
"Hot, Nasty Speed."
At the end of the day, I'd do a Suzuki or Briggs motor if it had potential. My goal for this mental excercise is to "bench-race"/theoretically build, a concept for a 500+hp OB for less than the going figures for the current options.

...and all of us, no matter how dyed in the wool, Ford blue we are, or fans of the legend, Mr Shelby...










Will ignore the Shelby Daytonas...
Another design criteria to aim for too.... keep the weight to less than 800 if cheap, lighter if more expensive. I want to say those 7 Marine's were almost 1,200lbs each which was absolutely a deterrent for most boat builders.
 

Taboma

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Fwiw, the new Volvo inboard engines are LS based and will hold 5,500rpm under full load all day long and I know they don't go into the internals when they purchase them from GM. They're using iron motors tho

Volvo is showing 6.2 deep skirted aluminum with 6 bolt caps @ 430 HP.
 

PlanB

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Yes, but Mr. Shelby even went from the 289...which was probably still pretty stout, to the 427. More power, kind of an evolution.
In the words of the venerable "Ricky Bobby",
"Hot, Nasty Speed."
At the end of the day, I'd do a Suzuki or Briggs motor if it had potential. My goal for this mental excercise is to "bench-race"/theoretically build, a concept for a 500+hp OB for less than the going figures for the current options.

...and all of us, no matter how dyed in the wool, Ford blue we are, or fans of the legend, Mr Shelby...










Will ignore the Shelby Daytonas...

The Daytona's are overshadowed by the GT40's, but they were incredible cars. Peter Brock went from a concept to a winning race car in a matter of weeks with his design.
 

monkeyswrench

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The Daytona's are overshadowed by the GT40's, but they were incredible cars. Peter Brock went from a concept to a winning race car in a matter of weeks with his design.
Crap, I should have been more clear...1987 Dodge Daytona "Z" trim...the econobox sports car 😂

That was the Shelby that should be forgotten. The big boys will always be badass machines...Dodge Daytona? Not my cup of tea.
 
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