Oh look, another Lithium Battery Storage Fire ---

[Taboma]

Tried to post this about 20 minutes ago and we had a power outage --- go figure. Restored now, thankfully.

SDG&E's battery storage at 571 Enterprise St. Escondido has a lithium battery module on fire.

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alertsandiego.org

Watch live | SDG&E battery storage facility fire in Escondido prompts evacuations

An evacuation order was issued for the immediate area near Enterprise between Mission Rd and Auto Park Way

www.cbs8.com

 

[Bajastu]

I see one of these sites was just built in Lake Elsinore. They are starting to pop up everywhere.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Tried to post this about 20 minutes ago and we had a power outage --- go figure. Restored now, thankfully.

SDG&E's battery storage at 571 Enterprise St. Escondido has a lithium battery module on fire.

Home

alertsandiego.org

Watch live | SDG&E battery storage facility fire in Escondido prompts evacuations

An evacuation order was issued for the immediate area near Enterprise between Mission Rd and Auto Park Way

www.cbs8.com

View attachment 1425907

That could go baddddddd fast.

 

[Maw]

Too hot today for safe operation?

 

[TimeBandit]

But it looked great on paper....

 

[Angler]

Tried to post this about 20 minutes ago and we had a power outage --- go figure. Restored now, thankfully.

SDG&E's battery storage at 571 Enterprise St. Escondido has a lithium battery module on fire.

Home

alertsandiego.org

Watch live | SDG&E battery storage facility fire in Escondido prompts evacuations

An evacuation order was issued for the immediate area near Enterprise between Mission Rd and Auto Park Way

www.cbs8.com

View attachment 1425907

They needed to add more ACs for the batteries...

 

[JB in so cal]

The state is deciding whether to build one in San Juan just up from drainage into a creek that feeds into Doheny.

 

[Gramps]

A few years ago they tried to build a 50 acre one in our "town".........I convinced them they were not welcome here.

 

[rightytighty]

My company just recently dealt with a residential garage fire where the lithium wall mount battery caught fire/ burned up. Hygienists involved. Lots of testing. Results were various heavy metals ( duh!) and the debris had to be Haz mat hauled to somewhere in Arizona that was VERY EXPENSIVE!!!! I mean like VERY !!!!!

Dealing with these batteries into the future, should be hoot! ( Or a very real business opportunity, if I were young).

 

[mesquito_creek]

Can’t do nuclear because of radiation and cancer
Can’t do coal because of pollution and cancer
Can’t do nat gas because the white smoke (steam) on the cooling stack and people thinks it causes cancer.
And now batteries are bad because they what? Start on fire, like everything else on the grid and let me guess cause cancer…

As I type this from my phone and put a lithium battery in my pocket next to my junk… waiting on a cock pants fire or causing prostate cancer

 

[TimeBandit]

I went down the solar power / lithium battery rabbit hole after reading the chicken's thread on his off-grid project.

It doesn't sound like a great idea to have a stack of lithium batteries in your home garage even on an exterior wall sounds sketchy?

Time will tell. But it looks like a great way to beat the 60 cent per kilowatt hour Edison charges during peak now.

I don't think our house AC has turned off for the last 2 hours...

 

[Nordie]

Isn't that lithium battery that closed the 15 near Baker still laying in the dirt? Moving that thing is gonna cost millions.

 

[oldman]

Can’t do nuclear because of radiation and cancer
Can’t do coal because of pollution and cancer
Can’t do nat gas because the white smoke (steam) on the cooling stack and people thinks it causes cancer.
And now batteries are bad because they what? Start on fire, like everything else on the grid and let me guess cause cancer…

As I type this from my phone and put a lithium battery in my pocket next to my junk… waiting on a cock pants fire or causing prostate cancer

We had a guy with a Tesla battery pack in pieces in his garage, he was trying to do some stupid shit and he got some of the cells wired wrong and the thing went off, all the fire dept could do was flood it until it bled off all of the energy, Thousands of gallons of water, and the garage was a total loss, We dumped the electrical service and cleared the F out, All kinds of cool toxic shit we don't really know about being released.

So you can imagine acres of the shit going off would do.

That's what closed the 40 a couple weeks ago.

EDIT 15

 

[mesquito_creek]

We had a guy with a Tesla battery pack in pieces in his garage, he was trying to do some stupid shit and he got some of the cells wired wrong and the thing went off, all the fire dept could do was flood it until it bled off all of the energy, Thousands of gallons of water, and the garage was a total loss, We dumped the electrical service and cleared the F out, All kinds of cool toxic shit we don't really know about being released.

So you can imagine acres of the shit going off would do.

That's what closed the 40 a couple weeks ago.

EDIT 15

I’ve seen substation transformer fires that are pretty impressive also. Definitely acres of do nothing but let it burn out. Vegetable oil is better than PCP based oils of the past but I bet nobody stands in the smoke plume to prove it’s harmless.

 

[Mini Kat]

I went down the solar power / lithium battery rabbit hole after reading the chicken's thread on his off-grid project.

It doesn't sound like a great idea to have a stack of lithium batteries in your home garage even on an exterior wall

I don't think our house AC has turned off for the last 2 hours...

Try living in Havasu mine hasn't turned off in the last 2 months lol but it's worth it

 

[Taboma]

A few years ago they tried to build a 50 acre one in our "town".........I convinced them they were not welcome here.

The irony is, currently SDG&E is pushing for yet another battery storage facility within a few miles of there, "Seguro", in a rural horse area, with a new very large housing development nearby as well.
The ranch and home owners in that area have been raising a huge stink with the county board of supervisors, and I have a feeling after this incident, their voices will be heard much louder and more clearly.

 

[77charger]

The state is deciding whether to build one in San Juan just up from drainage into a creek that feeds into Doheny.

Heard about that. My mom lives right above the area. She said they want to put it where the the saddleback/ranch Capistrano church area. She’s not into it. I told her she needs to stop voting democrat lol so deal with it.

 

[Taboma]

I’ve seen substation transformer fires that are pretty impressive also. Definitely acres of do nothing but let it burn out. Vegetable oil is better than PCP based oils of the past but I bet nobody stands in the smoke plume to prove it’s harmless.

The last battery storage fire SDG&E had in San Diego was the one in Otay Mesa that burned for about two weeks forcing a large area of evacuations.
At least in San Diego, these systems are getting a lot of very bad press of late.

 

[mesquito_creek]

The last battery storage fire SDG&E had in San Diego was the one in Otay Mesa that burned for about two weeks forcing a large area of evacuations.
At least in San Diego, these systems are getting a lot of very bad press of late.

I have always been a fan of SDG&E paying AZ to take their excess power, so I definitely agree SoCal should not mess around with storing it and using it after the sun goes down. AZ can meet your after dark needs for a reasonable price…

 

[YeahYeah01]

Can't they make some fire blanket thing that auto deploys at certain temps that can engulf this things.

 

[mesquito_creek]

Can't they make some fire blanket thing that auto deploys at certain temps that can engulf this things.

Probably not as big of an issue in the future as they phase out the nickel and cobalt batteries… the newer iron phosphate doesn’t have the same thermal runaway issues as the older lithium chemistry’s. But who knows, storing energy always has risk.

 

[evantwheeler]

Can't they make some fire blanket thing that auto deploys at certain temps that can engulf this things.

I was just thinking air drop some large metal container over it and try to suffocate it.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I’ve seen substation transformer fires that are pretty impressive also. Definitely acres of do nothing but let it burn out. Vegetable oil is better than PCP based oils of the past but I bet nobody stands in the smoke plume to prove it’s harmless.

PCB.

And until recently all of your large power transformers were filled with mineral oil. PCB was added for a time as, wait for it, a fire retardant. In fact mineral oil is still the default insulating and cooling oil in large transformers, you have to specify natural esther (ie salad dressing) based oils if you want them. Those oils come with their own operational issues, but they are biodegradable so clean up after a spill is a little "easier", namely because the soil can be disposed of without as many hoops to jump through.

None of this stuff is environmentally friendly when you get down to it.

 

[mesquito_creek]

PCB.

And until recently all of your large power transformers were filled with mineral oil. PCB was added for a time as, wait for it, a fire retardant. In fact mineral oil is still the default insulating and cooling oil in large transformers, you have to specify natural esther (ie salad dressing) based oils if you want them. Those oils come with their own operational issues, but they are biodegradable so clean up after a spill is a little "easier", namely because the soil can be disposed of without as many hoops to jump through.

None of this stuff is environmentally friendly when you get down to it.

All the PCP transformers from the east valley kept getting stolen and found empty on the west side…

 

[Xring01]

You guys may recall I am in the industry.

From the info that I have heard from the older/retired lineman/engineers.

The key reason why PCBs Oil was banned, is because they believed that if could cause cancer. Note, not because of it being in a transformer, or not because of someone disposing of the oil after the transformer failed. Nope…

I guess in some country’s across the world, the locals would steal the pole top transformers, sell of the copper/aluminum windings, and use the oil inside of it, for cooking their food.

Yes in those cases there was a higher rate of cancer. I guess this was a major problem in country’s like India/China etc.

Again, I am not stating any of this as fact, I am just relaying info that old timers handed down to me.

Note: Is very difficult to find a transformer in the US today that still has PCBs. Why, Utility‘s replaced the PCB oil with Mineral oil, and then they do DGA samples on that oil every year, monitoring the levels of the PCBs in the oil. In addition to that. There is alot more to this…

Rest assured, we do not have a problem with PCBs in our transformer fleet across the US.

 

[Ziggy]

We humans just ain't got enough battery technology smarts yet.

 

[Taboma]

You guys may recall I am in the industry.
View attachment 1426089

Oh boy do I have some interesting stories regarding removal and replacement of US Navy Base PCB transformers required under our 12KV infrastructure renovation projects due to that ban.
Without proper legal consolation however, probably best to not to share any real details, even 44 years later, on the WWW
Let's just say that there might have been a bit of accidental negligence (Errr fudging) on Navy public works responsibility to test for transformer and switch PCB percentages and tag them accordingly. Seems replacement priorities were staged according to quantity and percentage, or that was how it was supposed to work, but it was much later and well into the game when a little mouse (Rat) whispered that certain pieces hadn't been tagged at all.

You guys may recall I am in the industry.
View attachment 1426089

From the info that I have heard from the older/retired lineman/engineers.

The key reason why PCBs Oil was banned, is because they believed that if could cause cancer. Note, not because of it being in a transformer, or not because of someone disposing of the oil after the transformer failed. Nope…

I guess in some country’s across the world, the locals would steal the pole top transformers, sell of the copper/aluminum windings, and use the oil inside of it, for cooking their food.

Yes in those cases there was a higher rate of cancer. I guess this was a major problem in country’s like India/China etc.

Again, I am not stating any of this as fact, I am just relaying info that old timers handed down to me.

Note: Is very difficult to find a transformer in the US today that still has PCBs. Why, Utility‘s replaced the PCB oil with Mineral oil, and then they do DGA samples on that oil every year, monitoring the levels of the PCBs in the oil. In addition to that. There is alot more to this…

Rest assured, we do not have a problem with PCBs in our transformer fleet across the US.

Like many, back in the day I worked on some HV equipment and I was up to my elbows in the shit. The only cancer I got was the melanoma variety from basking my body to a beautiful bronze color working shirtless doing underground duct banks.

What I'd been told was, the PCB's when burned created dioxins which were highly toxic and a cancer causing agent. So I never burned any.
Back in the 80's, the public works crews would turn a blind eye if a few drops got spilled --- or an entire load interrupter switch explodes over an entire parking lot, whatever.

Then one day a young Navy officer out on a pier, spotted drops that had come from a cut end of the old lead sheathed high voltage cable that another contractor had removed.

He collected it and had it sampled. Sure enough it was PCB and suddenly the vintage lead sheathed lead cable being extracted required hazmat treatment. Thankfully all the lead cable we'd removed under our contracts had already been "Disappeared".

 

[2Driver]

Wood causes a lot of fire too

 

[Xring01]

Dont even get me started on Lead Cables…

Honestly, the best protection for underground cables is Lead… There is no close second what so ever… Its not even a debate. Its a slam dunk fact. But they are concerned about putting lead in the ground… WTF… Where does lead come from??? The Ground….


Yet, most Utility’s do not allow it in there systems any more.

So they buy substandard substitutes, that will not last as long, therefore has much higher failure rates. Which means reliability goes down…

See, told ya not to get me started on that one… I can keep going.

 

[mesquito_creek]

Oh boy do I have some interesting stories regarding removal and replacement of US Navy Base PCB transformers required under our 12KV infrastructure renovation projects due to that ban.
Without proper legal consolation however, probably best to not to share any real details, even 44 years later, on the WWW
Let's just say that there might have been a bit of accidental negligence (Errr fudging) on Navy public works responsibility to test for transformer and switch PCB percentages and tag them accordingly. Seems replacement priorities were staged according to quantity and percentage, or that was how it was supposed to work, but it was much later and well into the game when a little mouse (Rat) whispered that certain pieces hadn't been tagged at all.

Like many, back in the day I worked on some HV equipment and I was up to my elbows in the shit. The only cancer I got was the melanoma variety from basking my body to a beautiful bronze color working shirtless doing underground duct banks.

What I'd been told was, the PCB's when burned created dioxins which were highly toxic and a cancer causing agent. So I never burned any.
Back in the 80's, the public works crews would turn a blind eye if a few drops got spilled --- or an entire load interrupter switch explodes over an entire parking lot, whatever.

Then one day a young Navy officer out on a pier, spotted drops that had come from a cut end of the old lead sheathed high voltage cable that another contractor had removed.

He collected it and had it sampled. Sure enough it was PCB and suddenly the vintage lead sheathed lead cable being extracted required hazmat treatment. Thankfully all the lead cable we'd removed under our contracts had already been "Disappeared".

I am pretty sure many ended up in landfills…. If a farmer (which there were many) had their own pole and transformers on a well pump, the old transformers ended up in a quickly dug hole.

 

[Xring01]

Wood causes a lot of fire too

Really, where did you learn that from?
In Paradise????

ahhhhh I told a funny… uhhhh maybe not so funny…. as all the PG&E people look away… that was to soon…. Way to soon.

 

[Taboma]

I am pretty sure many ended up in landfills…. If a farmer (which there were many) had their own pole and transformers on a well pump, the old transformers ended up in a quickly dug hole.

Our contractual obligation was to convey the transformers and LI switches from the sub-stations and basement xformer rooms to an on-base laydown area the Navy had designated and provided.
Off-load them, pump the contents into a sufficient number of 55 gallon barrels, then leave them and the barrels there.
I believe the Navy had issued a separate contract to have them hauled and disposed of in a beautiful remote area of Idaho filled with Yogi, Bambi and friends.

The big whispered secret that was revealed was as we neared completion. It was in regards to the details regarding the identification and marking of any PCB contaminated devices, switches or transformers.

Imagine my surprise to learn that all the load interrupter switches and some transformers weren't non-marked as being clean as I was led to believe, on the contrary, they were so badly contaminated with PCBs, the Navy hadn't marked them knowing they'd be in violation of regulations that would have required removal years before.
So the worst offenders weren't ever identified so their disposition was thankfully, never questioned.

Dad always recycled used motor oil from whence it came --- that's why his cedar fence posts survived more than 50 years.