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Outboard steering questions..

Discussion in 'The Outboard Church' started by Mr. C, May 13, 2011.

  1. Mr. C

    Mr. C going back in time

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    18.6' Cee Bee Avenger with 150 blk Max.

    I had my floors and transom replaced recently. replaced my steering with a new Teleflex NFB dual rack system.
    At speeds over 35mph the steering is damn near impossible to turn right.
    When cables are unhooked from the motor the wheel turns smoothly and freely. The motor moves with ease as well.

    If when the motor was put back on after the transom was done and not put on level/balanced(aligned properly) would/could this be causing my issues?
    Or any other suggestions I should try??
     
  2. rivermobster

    rivermobster Club Banned

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    what size prop?

    is it on a set back jack?

    can you post a pic?
     
  3. DAVEO

    DAVEO Well-Known Member

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    Put hydrolic steering on it.
     
  4. TUNNEL T

    TUNNEL T Well-Known Member

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    your probably fighting wheel torque , also if you were just crusing trimmed in and the boat riding very wet you will feel like you can't turn the wheel. did you play with the trim ?did you attemp wot ? what did it feel like before you changed too the dual rack? TUNNEL T


    yes hydrolic would cure all your steering woes !!!!
     
  5. Faceaz

    Faceaz Well-Known Member

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    I think your nfb is a great system & hydraulic won't help IMO. You're most likely feeling the steering torque. Gets worse as the top side of the prop surfaces. I'd try 3 things: 1) Trim down a little, that will get a little more prop in the water. 2) Get a steering trim tab (the little fin that hangs down from the lower unit just behind the prop), the angle is adjustable to counter-act the steering torque. 3) If the steering trim tab isn't doing the job, take a cresent or small hammer & bend a little wedge @ the trailing side of your lower unit fin (just in front of the prop). A combination of the 3 & you should be able to get it running pretty neutral.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2011
  6. Mr. C

    Mr. C going back in time

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    Thanks guys,

    Boats in storage right now so no pics. No jack plate either.

    Just sitting on the trailer it is a little harder to turn right. turning left is smooth as can be.

    Played with the trim many times and it makes very little difference, at WOT the boat hits about 52-55 (props a 19) and it takes both hands to turn to the right.
    I have also adjusted the steering trim tab , no help.
     
  7. rivermobster

    rivermobster Club Banned

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    I have a 150 on my toon with old worn out cables, and there is NO difference at all on the trailer! I do feel some torque steer in the water, but nothing as bad as your discribing.

    If its bad on the trailer, you need to get that figured out first! No way that should be happening.
     
  8. Faceaz

    Faceaz Well-Known Member

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    .
     
  9. TUNNEL T

    TUNNEL T Well-Known Member

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    i have to agree ,that if its tight on the trailer something is not right . also you can purchase a torque tab that you put on the lower unit too aid in the steering i think land and sea has them !!! good luck TUNNEL T
     
  10. Faceaz

    Faceaz Well-Known Member

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    Is it a push / push or push / pull system?

    I'm guessing a push / push. Check to make sure there aren't any tight bends in the cables. I little more resistance in one direction isn't too abnormal. I'd try a little bend in the back of the skeg.
     
  11. Tom Brown

    Tom Brown Epsilon contributor

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    It wasn't installed correctly. They installed it without the dual steering ram adapter.

    Get us a picture.

    I would bet a dozen donuts you will see two rams connected to two control arms, both connecting to the tiller. That's not how you do it.

    You need the dual steering adapter connected across both rams. From there, a single arm connects to the tiller.

    Make that change and your steering will work properly. It's a common mistake.
     
  12. Tom Brown

    Tom Brown Epsilon contributor

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    Once you get the steering working properly, then look at the steering torque under load. Not before.

    Don't disregard the steering torque once you fix the steering, though. It's a joy to drive a well set up boat that steers well. the torque tab idea mentioned earlier is a good idea but so is the idea of testing a less crabby prop, like a 4 blade Trophy.
     
  13. rivermobster

    rivermobster Club Banned

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    Is this what your refering to??

    http://www.mercuryracing.com/propellers/trophyplus.php
     
  14. Tom Brown

    Tom Brown Epsilon contributor

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    Yes, that's it.

    My idea of the preferred order is:

    - repair steering
    - test props
    - set torque fin on gear case all the way to starboard or remove it and replace it with a zinc disk, if the prop requires it.
    - once you're happy with your setup and prop, weld on a torque tab if required


    The point being, I wouldn't go modifying my gear case until I had the setup nearly dialed in. If you find that a big ear chopper or one of the aggressive three blades is the best prop all around, but pulls hard, you can balance it out with a torque tab.

    If you are running a v-hull, you will probably enjoy the Trophy. You won't need power trim, as the boat will run pretty dry with the engine tucked right in. Speed is great. Bite for the hole shot is wild. They are really a great v-hull prop for smaller hulls.
     
  15. rivermobster

    rivermobster Club Banned

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    Nice.

    The 150 on the toon has some substantial toruqe steer under WOT. It has a alum 4 blade on it now that lets it run right up to the redline, and gets me about 43mph on the GPS.

    If i could get rid of the tourque steer, and get 45+ outa it, i would be a happy camper for sure.

    :thumbsup
     
  16. Mr. C

    Mr. C going back in time

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    No tight bends in the cable, and as far as push/ push or push / pull couldn't tell you either way.

    Tom I'm almost positive you just lost a dozen doughnuts. but I'm going to try to get it out of storage this weekend and get some pics up.

    As far as a crappy prop, it is what it is. when and if I have an extra 6-700 bucks pretty sure a prop isn't high on the priority list.:(


    Thanks for all the tips, much appreciated
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2011
  17. Tom Brown

    Tom Brown Epsilon contributor

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    ... so you won't be happy with getting rid of the torque steer and getting 43mph WOT? ... because that's all you're likely to get with that prop. A torque tab isn't going to buy you any speed.

    For a pontoon, I wouldn't bother trying a Trophy.

    If you're adventurous, you may wish to try labbing your own prop as it is. I've done it several time.

    I trace a blade onto construction paper and cut it out. From there, I use the template and a file to make sure all blades are the same ear shape.

    I have pitch wedges I made myself out of wood. It's not particularly difficult. It's just a wedge. Make sure all blades are the same pitch.

    From there, carefully shapen the blades. Carefully. Don't file them to a knife edge. Aluminum won't take that. They have to be fairly blunt (maybe 45*) compared to a stainless prop and they need to all be the same.

    That ought to get you at least 1 mph and a smoother ride.
     
  18. Tom Brown

    Tom Brown Epsilon contributor

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    If you don't have two steering arms connected to the tiller, I would disconnect the single steering arm and see if it still binds when you turn right. If so, I would disconnect the twin ram adapter and try again.

    Keep tearing it down until you can isolate the problem.

    When a dual cable setup is setup properly, they steer wonderfully. It's a bit weird to get used to a locking hub helm but you won't even notice the brake after a while.
     
  19. rivermobster

    rivermobster Club Banned

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    Thanks TB. Too late for this season, but I'll put this on my to-do list for next winter. :thumbsup
     
  20. Mr. C

    Mr. C going back in time

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    My buddy has the same exact boat and steering setup but with a 200 on it. that thing turns with ease. Fuck him:D
    I can't wait for mine to be right. Again thanks for the input.
     
  21. Tom Brown

    Tom Brown Epsilon contributor

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    I have a 26p Trophy that's been sitting on the shelf for a few years. I'd sell it cheap but I'm guessing it's going to be a little course for anyone here.
     
  22. Mr.Puck

    Mr.Puck Well-Known Member

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    One hand turns at any speed! :fingers::party2::party:

    I think turning dirt out in the desert would be easier than turning Mr.C's boat. :thumbsdown That thing need's help.

    Personally I think problem lies where cables go into the tubes.:headscratch:

    With cables only attached to the steering wheel, the wheel turns nice and smooth, and the cables go in and out. Motor all by it self, no cables, smooth and no binding.

    Put them together.... Power steering by StrongArm! :thumbsdown
     
  23. Tom Brown

    Tom Brown Epsilon contributor

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    Please post a picture of the outboard end of the steering system.
     
  24. TUNNEL T

    TUNNEL T Well-Known Member

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    go to a merc dealer and ask for a tilt tube brush ,you probably have a badly corroded tilt tube . brush is cheap attach to a cordless drill and run it back and forth in the tube regrease and install cables .TUNNEL T
     
  25. Mr. C

    Mr. C going back in time

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    Well i finally got the boat home(okay, the little women went and picked it up:D)
    Anywhoooo, gonna stop and get the tilt tube brush today but here's what i got.

    I do not remember the steering arm being set back into the second hole before I had the transom done. But I cannot for the F'n life of me get the bolt out.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Oh Tom, a shot of my prop just for you....thought you might get a chuckle:D:thumbsup
    [​IMG]


    Thanks for all the advice guys , It's much appreciated
     
  26. Faceaz

    Faceaz Well-Known Member

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    Looks like a clean set-up. I'd do my best to change that bolt location, it will really increase your mechanical advantage.

    Also, I would try to get the tubes set so the end of the cables are even when installed. I haven't had a set-up like that, but looks like the steering arm clamp could bind the cables in the tubes, if they aren't set even.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
  27. Furniture 4 Me

    Furniture 4 Me Well-Known Member

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    X2
     
  28. TomD

    TomD Breathing Member

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    You got to take that jam nut off the bottom of that steering arm bolt. Also someone may have put red lock tight on it. I would also throw that bolt away and get a new ARP grade 8 bolt to replace it with. Your life is riding on that bolt. Faceaz is right it would make easier to steer on that front hole. You may need a torque tab on the starboard side back of the skeg will help the torque steer.
     
  29. Mr. C

    Mr. C going back in time

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    Well I got the tubes cleaned out and the steering arm in the front hole.
    It is so much easier to turn right, but a tad harder to turn left(then it was)
    Started F'n with the front adjustable tube and got it a little better yet.

    I have always used Mercury lubes for my cables, what do you guys use?
     
  30. RitcheyRch

    RitcheyRch Currently Boat-Less

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    Glad to hear you got it some what sorted out.

     

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