WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

Plug in Hybrid EV

ArizonaKevin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
2,569
Reaction score
2,908
Anyone have one yet?

Looking for a new car for the wife, had decided on the Genesis GV80. Got screwed on a few different deals from different dealers and put a bad taste in my mouth on the whole brand. Have a friend who works at a BMW dealership, checked out the X5 and fell in love.

BMW has the XDrive45E option that adds an electric motor to the 3L turbo straight 6 that can get 30-40ish miles of range (my wife's hospital is 27 miles from home). The hybrid option works out to be about $3500 more than the standard one and qualifies me for a $7500 tax credit.

Is there something that I am missing?

(Also, save it if you're just going to talk about BMW maintenance horror stories. I have had mechanical faults from every vehicle I have owned across a good spectrum of brands, my mom had an x3 when i was a kid that was fine just with regular scheduled maintenance)
 

Ziggy

SlumLord
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
31,909
Reaction score
29,620
Anyone have one yet?

Looking for a new car for the wife, had decided on the Genesis GV80. Got screwed on a few different deals from different dealers and put a bad taste in my mouth on the whole brand. Have a friend who works at a BMW dealership, checked out the X5 and fell in love.

BMW has the XDrive45E option that adds an electric motor to the 3L turbo straight 6 that can get 30-40ish miles of range (my wife's hospital is 27 miles from home). The hybrid option works out to be about $3500 more than the standard one and qualifies me for a $7500 tax credit.

Is there something that I am missing?

(Also, save it if you're just going to talk about BMW maintenance horror stories. I have had mechanical faults from every vehicle I have owned across a good spectrum of brands, my mom had an x3 when i was a kid that was fine just with regular scheduled maintenance)
My opinion, as a former bmw dealer, would be to purchase as close to home as possible, or wherever you intend to service it.
 

steamin rice

No Bad Days....
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
2,927
Reaction score
848
I've had a bmw 330e plug in hybrid for about 3 years, and am pretty happy with it overall. Be aware that you probably won't get the published range on all electric especially in AZ during the summer when the AC is running hard, but if your wife can charge at work then you should be able to use mostly electric power. I have been working from home since Dec, and most of my trips are short so I use mostly electric power. I think I've burned about 20 gallons of gas since Dec.

I will say that I don't have much confidence in the reliability of my car once it is out of warranty. I've had to get sensors adjusted, replace the 12V battery within a year, and the fuel fill system seems to be way overcomplicated. The system is pressurized and needs to let the pressure out before opening the fuel fill door and gas cap. Sometimes it doesn't work, which means that the fuel fill door won't open and I can't put gas in it. I've had the control module for this replaced once under warranty but it's still not 100% reliable. I don't know if the X5 uses the same system or not.

It sounds like you understand the potential maintenance costs, so if its a fit for you then go for it.
 

ArizonaKevin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
2,569
Reaction score
2,908
My decision did just become a bit easier, heard back from the dealer that the 45e's are on a backorder with an unknown clear date as they require a lot more of the microchips with the supply chain issues.

BMW has decided to limit certain options and models that require a lot of chips to keep total vehicle production similar.
 

rivermobster

Club Banned
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
41,238
Reaction score
23,285
I get zero of the tax credit on the lease.
Well let's think about this...

How much will that tax credit net you?

The repair bills will be astronomical on a BMW out of warranty. Next, check the resale value. Nothing deprecates more than a BMW once you drive it over the curb.

Run YOUR numbers and see what makes sense for you.

Signed,

BMW tech for nine years.
 

RodnJen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
10,372
Reaction score
5,791
I don't disagree with anything that has been posted. My ownership experience, however, was drastically better once out of warranty. What is mean by that is I did not have to keep going to the dealership. I found a reliable independent shop that has been great to work with . I have had a few issues, warranty, and regular wear and tear for the most part out of warranty. Service isn't cheap but after 9 1/2 years the X5 still drives and feels damn near the same as when we drove it home. Two of my neighbors bought them within a year of me, neither of them kept them long.
 

boatpi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
5,371
Reaction score
5,977
They work very well. I have had a Prius Plug- in Hybrid, and now a MBZ GLC350E Plug in SUV, hauls azz total 330HP.

In all electric, I have one of the first reservations for the 2022 Ford Lighting Pick Up. As soon as ordering begins in a few weeks, I am ordering a 2022 jeep Wrangler Sahara 4XE, plug in. It has a $7,500 tax credit.

Now the IRS is the one giving the federal tax credits, and it depends on battery size, nothing else as I know it.
As an example, the Jeep has a 14KW battery, so current max in $7,500 TAX CREDIT, NOT a rebate. Biden is suggesting to congress they make the max credit to $10,000 for non union shops, and $12,500 for union shops, ie; the Jeep and Ford Lighting!!!

I am not a tree hugger, but I can count $$$$.
 

ArizonaKevin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
2,569
Reaction score
2,908
I don't disagree with anything that has been posted. My ownership experience, however, was drastically better once out of warranty. What is mean by that is I did not have to keep going to the dealership. I found a reliable independent shop that has been great to work with . I have had a few issues, warranty, and regular wear and tear for the most part out of warranty. Service isn't cheap but after 9 1/2 years the X5 still drives and feels damn near the same as when we drove it home. Two of my neighbors bought them within a year of me, neither of them kept them long.
That has been something that I have heard more often than not. Is it possible that I will have problems? Absolutely, a similar possibility that I will have problems with most other manufacturers. If I have problems, will it cost more than a problem with a different manufacturer? Probably, but I am willing to accept that.
 

rivermobster

Club Banned
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
41,238
Reaction score
23,285
That has been something that I have heard more often than not. Is it possible that I will have problems? Absolutely, a similar possibility that I will have problems with most other manufacturers. If I have problems, will it cost more than a problem with a different manufacturer? Probably, but I am willing to accept that.
He has a Very early X5. Completely different animal than anything new you'll be getting now.

You have to compare apples to apples. I own a 330ci and love it. Would I buy anything new? Not a snowballs chance in hell.
 

ArizonaKevin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
2,569
Reaction score
2,908
He has a Very early X5. Completely different animal than anything new you'll be getting now.

You have to compare apples to apples. I own a 330ci and love it. Would I buy anything new? Not a snowballs chance in hell.
I appreciate your opinion, but like I said, I'm not entirely worried about it as the concerns of the "new tech" applies to everything but the 4Runner with it's 18 year old design.
 

rivermobster

Club Banned
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
41,238
Reaction score
23,285
I appreciate your opinion, but like I said, I'm not entirely worried about it as the concerns of the "new tech" applies to everything but the 4Runner with it's 18 year old design.
You lost me on that one, but, you're welcome anyway! LoL
 

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,592
Reaction score
41,351
Between the horrible resale and expensive maintenance, I see no reason to own a BMW. Leasing one is fine.

Friend is the #1 salesman for a BMW dealer in OC, and said never buy one, in speaking about the "modern" ones.

If you want to buy one, buy an off lease unit for pennies on the dollar.
 

Ace in the Hole

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
1,113
Reaction score
1,878
Anyone have one yet?

Looking for a new car for the wife, had decided on the Genesis GV80. Got screwed on a few different deals from different dealers and put a bad taste in my mouth on the whole brand. Have a friend who works at a BMW dealership, checked out the X5 and fell in love.

BMW has the XDrive45E option that adds an electric motor to the 3L turbo straight 6 that can get 30-40ish miles of range (my wife's hospital is 27 miles from home). The hybrid option works out to be about $3500 more than the standard one and qualifies me for a $7500 tax credit.

Is there something that I am missing?

(Also, save it if you're just going to talk about BMW maintenance horror stories. I have had mechanical faults from every vehicle I have owned across a good spectrum of brands, my mom had an x3 when i was a kid that was fine just with regular scheduled maintenance)
I own the BMW X5 Hybrid.... Overall its a great car....we just don't use it enough honestly. Buy the extended warranty and the maintenance package if you drive a lot. I shouldn't have done the maintenance on this one bc its just sitting over Covid. We lock it into the battery only mode most of the time, since the car rarely leaves NB, TX...its pretty much used to take the kids to school, grocery store, or out to dinner.

These things have gotten hard to find with everything going on...BMW south Austin gave me an offer for it when it was in for maintenance... If things don't change in the next 60 days or so...they are likely going to own it for the sole reason we just don't need it. If you might be interested in a slightly used certified one with 20k miles on it...I'd sell it for what they offered me. I have the title in hand.

I've owned I think 7 BMW's....Most people talking shit haven't owned one..its just second hand. My diesel x5 had some big issues and I dumped it over it...but it was long paid for by then. If you want some real world info on them shoot me a pm and you can call me. We've had Zero issues with the car, and the electrical usage difference at the house was minimal.

We buy strictly CPO's...my friend works for corporate and usually finds me something worth buying when the time comes.....stay away from any Principle Auto dealer...fuck those cock suckers with a rusty splitting maul.
 

Ace in the Hole

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
1,113
Reaction score
1,878
Between the horrible resale and expensive maintenance, I see no reason to own a BMW. Leasing one is fine.

Friend is the #1 salesman for a BMW dealer in OC, and said never buy one, in speaking about the "modern" ones.

If you want to buy one, buy an off lease unit for pennies on the dollar.
Haven't priced CPO BMW's in a bit have you? lots are empty....our dealer calls us frequently wanting to buy it since they have no inventory. I bet they had under 25 total cars new and used a couple weeks ago when I was there...
 

Done-it-again

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2016
Messages
4,894
Reaction score
4,578
Between the horrible resale and expensive maintenance, I see no reason to own a BMW. Leasing one is fine.

Friend is the #1 salesman for a BMW dealer in OC, and said never buy one, in speaking about the "modern" ones.

If you want to buy one, buy an off lease unit for pennies on the dollar.
Agree, only lease a new Bmer.....they really screwed up when they ditched the free maintenance they had.

My mother did just by a 16' 428 vert for $12k with 13,000 miles last week.... Will see how much it cost down the road...
 

ArizonaKevin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
2,569
Reaction score
2,908

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,592
Reaction score
41,351
Agree, only lease a new Bmer.....they really screwed up when they ditched the free maintenance they had.

My mother did just by a 16' 428 vert for $12k with 13,000 miles last week.... Will see how much it cost down the road...
That was probably $60k+ new 4 years ago...

For $12K with 13,000 miles run it for 2 years, sell it for $10k, buy another.
 

Ace in the Hole

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
1,113
Reaction score
1,878
Agree, only lease a new Bmer.....they really screwed up when they ditched the free maintenance they had.

My mother did just by a 16' 428 vert for $12k with 13,000 miles last week.... Will see how much it cost down the road...
Did she buy it form a car thief lol...thats a crazy deal
 

ArizonaKevin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
2,569
Reaction score
2,908
I don’t know anything about these but is that a competitive price? That’s a lot of scratch $$. Value is in the eye of the beholder but I’d hope it’s pretty luxurious inside for that kind of money.
For a used one? I would say no. The way I have configured a build on 45e is $70,550 minus the $7500 tax credit. The equally equipped non hybrid is $67,050
 

rivrrts429

Arch Stanton...
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
16,769
Reaction score
27,756
For a used one? I would say no. The way I have configured a build on 45e is $70,550 minus the $7500 tax credit. The equally equipped non hybrid is $67,050
I can’t make heads or tails of this market right now. Covid pricing has prices all over the map. Good luck with your search. God knows you’ve had quite the search lol
 

ArizonaKevin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
2,569
Reaction score
2,908
I can’t make heads or tails of this market right now. Covid pricing has prices all over the map. Good luck with your search. God knows you’ve had quite the search lol
Yeah, the best part is we have upped our budget a bit to get into the X5 and now we could get a higher spec GV80 that they have sitting on the lot. But the purchasing experience has just put such a bad taste in my mouth about the brand and dealer network that I don't want to give them 70k.

Fully understand that it is entirely irrational, but I can't bring myself to give them a dime right now.
 

rivrrts429

Arch Stanton...
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
16,769
Reaction score
27,756
Yeah, the best part is we have upped our budget a bit to get into the X5 and now we could get a higher spec GV80 that they have sitting on the lot. But the purchasing experience has just put such a bad taste in my mouth about the brand and dealer network that I don't want to give them 70k.

Fully understand that it is entirely irrational, but I can't bring myself to give them a dime right now.
I don’t blame you one bit after that ordeal.

I had an experience with a Chevrolet dealer in 2004 on a brand new Silverado that blew the motor in 10k miles. The local dealer tried to fuck me. I got corporate involved who inevitably resolved the issue immediately. I won’t ever step foot in that place again. Soured me towards the brand in general.
 

Ace in the Hole

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
1,113
Reaction score
1,878
I don’t blame you one bit after that ordeal.

I had an experience with a Chevrolet dealer in 2004 on a brand new Silverado that blew the motor in 10k miles. The local dealer tried to fuck me. I got corporate involved who inevitably resolved the issue immediately. I won’t ever step foot in that place again. Soured me towards the brand in general.
A shitty dealer can ruin the brand for some people... I like BMW but I'd never buy from a Principle Auto owned dealer.... I'd rather drag my nuts through a field of broken glass, then pour siracha sauce on them and do it again before giving those guys a dime.
 

napanutt

Connoisseur
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
7,523
Reaction score
6,963
Well let's think about this...

How much will that tax credit net you?

The repair bills will be astronomical on a BMW out of warranty. Next, check the resale value. Nothing deprecates more than a BMW once you drive it over the curb.

Run YOUR numbers and see what makes sense for you.

Signed,

BMW tech for nine years.
I drove my 06 330i like I stole it daily for 220,000+ miles. The after warranty repair work wasn’t terrible considering the “wow” factor of driving a BMW. Sold it to a coworker a year or so ago.
CC9C4515-2525-4795-B4D8-F139F162CD1B.jpeg
 

napanutt

Connoisseur
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
7,523
Reaction score
6,963
Anyone have one yet?

Looking for a new car for the wife, had decided on the Genesis GV80. Got screwed on a few different deals from different dealers and put a bad taste in my mouth on the whole brand. Have a friend who works at a BMW dealership, checked out the X5 and fell in love.

BMW has the XDrive45E option that adds an electric motor to the 3L turbo straight 6 that can get 30-40ish miles of range (my wife's hospital is 27 miles from home). The hybrid option works out to be about $3500 more than the standard one and qualifies me for a $7500 tax credit.

Is there something that I am missing?

(Also, save it if you're just going to talk about BMW maintenance horror stories. I have had mechanical faults from every vehicle I have owned across a good spectrum of brands, my mom had an x3 when i was a kid that was fine just with regular scheduled maintenance)
So, why hybrid? We have a Tesla model 3. Love it.
It’s the wife’s commuter. She drives about 70 miles round trip to work and back. We charge it every night. I figure it’s about 6 bucks worth of electricity per day. I travel 50 miles round trip in a fossil fuel SUV. Probably close to 20 bucks a day for me.
 

ArizonaKevin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
2,569
Reaction score
2,908
So, why hybrid? We have a Tesla model 3. Love it.
It’s the wife’s commuter. She drives about 70 miles round trip to work and back. We charge it every night. I figure it’s about 6 bucks worth of electricity per day. I travel 50 miles round trip in a fossil fuel SUV. Probably close to 20 bucks a day for me.
Planning on using this car as a road trip vehicle as well. None of the EV's can make it from my house to my in-laws house without 2 charging stops. I think the PHEV might be able to pull off the best of both worlds
 

Chili Palmer

Master of My Domian
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
8,546
Reaction score
13,149
A shitty dealer can ruin the brand for some people... I like BMW but I'd never buy from a Principle Auto owned dealer.... I'd rather drag my nuts through a field of broken glass, then pour siracha sauce on them and do it again before giving those guys a dime.
If that's the case, stay away from BMW of Monrovia or any dealership owned by Sonic Autocars.
 

sixdays

La Flama Blanca
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
422
Reaction score
303
Planning on using this car as a road trip vehicle as well. None of the EV's can make it from my house to my in-laws house without 2 charging stops. I think the PHEV might be able to pull off the best of both worlds
The exact reason we drive a Volt...
 

Done-it-again

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2016
Messages
4,894
Reaction score
4,578
That was probably $60k+ new 4 years ago...

For $12K with 13,000 miles run it for 2 years, sell it for $10k, buy another.
sticker was in the glove box and was either 64 or 65k. Don’t remember.

but it goes against my feeling of owning a BMW out of warranty.
 

Done-it-again

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2016
Messages
4,894
Reaction score
4,578
Did she buy it form a car thief lol...thats a crazy deal
Ha ha ha. It was a friend of her’s car. She usually sell stuff for top dollar ( has more $$$$ than she can spend) she mentioned that she was going to sell. She asked for how much and said 12k.

may father had my mother double check via text so it was in writing to make sure. So they picked it up the next day.

I would have bought for that. It’s the light blue with blk interior.

it has had 5 oil changes. 1 a year no matter the miles. Crazy.
 

Ace in the Hole

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
1,113
Reaction score
1,878
Ha ha ha. It was a friend of her’s car. She usually sell stuff for top dollar ( has more $$$$ than she can spend) she mentioned that she was going to sell. She asked for how much and said 12k.

may father had my mother double check via text so it was in writing to make sure. So they picked it up the next day.

I would have bought for that. It’s the light blue with blk interior.

it has had 5 oil changes. 1 a year no matter the miles. Crazy.
Unreal....I would have dropped everything and went there with a trailer and sold it the next day lol
 

rivermobster

Club Banned
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
41,238
Reaction score
23,285
I drove my 06 330i like I stole it daily for 220,000+ miles. The after warranty repair work wasn’t terrible considering the “wow” factor of driving a BMW. Sold it to a coworker a year or so ago.
View attachment 1013764
Again, apples to oranges. You can't compare a 15 year old car to Anything built today!
 

HB2Havasu

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
2,995
Reaction score
5,588
If your wife only works 27 miles from home why not just go full electric vehicle and bypass the gas pump? Tesla Model 3 or Nissan Leaf are great commuter vehicles that are affordable.
 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,342
Reaction score
11,940
I thought this AAA vehicle total cost per mile comparison was interesting and if you download the PDF you can plug in your own numbers.

For the record, all our vehicles would suck nuts if I plugged in the numbers. 🥴

Here's two pages from the document, in the end, EV's aren't really saving you all that much, if anything.

2020-Your-Driving-Costs- 1.jpg


2020-Your-Driving-Costs-2.jpg
 

ArizonaKevin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
2,569
Reaction score
2,908
If your wife only works 27 miles from home why not just go full electric vehicle and bypass the gas pump? Tesla Model 3 or Nissan Leaf are great commuter vehicles that are affordable.
For the way we use our cars, a model 3 or a leaf is too much of a one trick pony. We are planning on using this car as a road trip car as well. My truck isn't all that comfortable on long hauls and gets really shit mileage because I am making a good amount of boost at an 80mph cruise
 

pronstar

President, Dallas Chapter
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
30,173
Reaction score
28,433
The data disagrees with you.

2010 JD Power dependability

View attachment 1013882

2021 Dependability

View attachment 1013883
JDP data should really be taken with a grain of salt. They’re a marketing firm that charges carmakers a LOT of money to use their “awards”. And their awards interestingly go to the carmakers who spend the most money with them.

Their definition of “dependability” is owner-reported problems during the previous 12 months, for 3-year-old vehicles.

Basically, it only ranks problems encountered between years 2 and 3 of vehicle ownership, for vehicles owned no more than 3 years.

I don’t think any of us would agree with that definition of “dependable”.

I will say that JDP is at least consistent with their definitions.

Unlike Motor Trend, who changes their definitions to find “winners” purely based on ad revenue.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro lol
 

ArizonaKevin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
2,569
Reaction score
2,908
JDP data should really be taken with a grain of salt. They’re a marketing firm that charges carmakers a LOT of money to use their “awards”. And their awards interestingly go to the carmakers who spend the most money with them.

Their definition of “dependability” is owner-reported problems during the previous 12 months, for 3-year-old vehicles.

Basically, it only ranks problems encountered between years 2 and 3 of vehicle ownership, for vehicles owned no more than 3 years.

I don’t think any of us would agree with that definition of “dependable”.

I will say that JDP is at least consistent with their definitions.

Unlike Motor Trend, who changes their definitions to find “winners” purely based on ad revenue.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro lol
Of course, it is certainly not the end all be all but it is one of the few consistent ish points of data that we have.
 

napanutt

Connoisseur
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
7,523
Reaction score
6,963
I thought this AAA vehicle total cost per mile comparison was interesting and if you download the PDF you can plug in your own numbers.

For the record, all our vehicles would suck nuts if I plugged in the numbers. 🥴

Here's two pages from the document, in the end, EV's aren't really saving you all that much, if anything.

View attachment 1013885

View attachment 1013886
I didn’t buy our Tesla trying to be green or economical. I wanted something sporty to replace the 15 year old bimmer. Made the mistake of test driving one. 😁
 

pixrthis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
621
Reaction score
848
I had a plug in hybrid Ford Fusion, it was a great car although I sold it when the carpool sticker expired. For a commuter I want the sticker.
 

rivermobster

Club Banned
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
41,238
Reaction score
23,285
The data disagrees with you.

2010 JD Power dependability

View attachment 1013882

2021 Dependability

View attachment 1013883
From 2010? Really?

I worked for BMW for nine years.

My experience isn't gleaned from paid advertising.

Here is a stat you won't hear in the media...

I worked for Lexus for 6 years. Shop forman. Official title? Diagnostic Specialist. In all the years at Lexus, we had maybe 2 lemon law cases.

We did two to three per MONTH at BMW.

Choose wisely!
 
Top