Pool build rant 2

[spectra bash]

Looking for advice on how to move forward with my current pool guy. From the start this guy didnt want to do anything the way we wanted. Always pushing for tile or concrete styles that we are not into. He is very argumenative about everything. At one point i stopped talking with him and my wife delt with him. Finally i went out to meet with him in backyard to go over some details and he asked me why i am hiding. I laughed and said some not so nice things to him. I work daily and wife works from home and asks him to please let us know when your guys will be working here and what time. He never tells us . just goes days or weeks and then just shows up. But he never comes over. I asked him if he would backfill and compact his trenches that will be under concrete work and he tells me my soils cant be compacted. I am a soils inspector. When my electrician wired my house before pool build with new panels on house and garage he ran all power and internet underground for me and stubbed out conduits underground for pool guys connections. his guys had power pvc conduits stubbed up near but not connected under ground. this week they formed and placed rebar for decking and flatwork which he told us we were a burden with the extra work. crazy. he planned to run electrical on my wall to panel surface mount and in flex line in air to pool panel. I lost it why did my electrician do all that prep work for him to surface mount. So now he said he does not want to do the extra flatwork only decking and contract work. My wife was about in tears when he said we were burdining him with extras. My electrician came over and hooked up all his guys conduits underground for them and pool guy said he didnt give a shit about my electrician and that this is his job site. At this point i pretty much told him to fuck off as my whole house is being worked on and he works for me. Unless he wants to pay my mortgage. He calls my wife today and is rude and still bitching about us wanting everything underground. I am in contract and have decking, equipment and plaster left but i cannot handle the way he runs buisness and he wont talk to me or my wife like that. Anyways not sure how to move forward with such an asshole. Thanks.

 

[GRADS]

I'm a little confused on the electrical as to where stuff was run and where it is being mounted? Also you said he doesn't want to do the extra flatwork, only what's on the contract? Would you be paying him outside of the contract for the extras?

 

[CoolCruzin]

I’ll add on to the rant .
I had a company come out do a computer drawing what we wanted .
Great design. Maybe a few changes
Still waiting for a cost from S.C
Been 4 weeks .
Starting a project like this is bad deal .
Screw that company .

 

[grumpy88]

I'm sorry to hear your story . I really have no good input for you . We are in the middle of a build and its been painfully slow but our contact has been nothing but respectfull . Including the subs . Maybe time to talk to a lawyer and visit your options .

 

[GRADS]

I’ll just say that if the decks are formed and you are happy with the quality of the work so far, maybe just tough it out to the end because you are 2/3’s of the way there. Tying it up with legal action could drag it out forever.

 

[monkeyswrench]

I don't understand guys like that. "Work" is a burden...why it's called work. Change orders or add-ons can be a hassle, but normally you'd charge a percentage bump over your normal, and keep going. In the end, you may work a bit more, but you got paid a bit more as well. Sounds almost as if this guy is working for another contractor, and using your pool as fill in work when his "boss" is slow.

Being under contract makes it tough. A guy like this won't self impose any performance guidelines to abide to. Most customers at the residential level trust them, and won't take it upon themselves to make additions to the contract.

 

[SKIDMARC]

If he is being an asshole to you and your wife be a bigger asshole to him! Your in a tough spot because your under contact but so is he! If he is messing with you and you mess back harder maybe he will walk away and you can get someone to finish how you want it. Or he will finish it how you want it!

I had the same issues with an AC guy putting in an entirely new AC system in my house. I took the approach mentioned above and he ended up doing it the way I wanted. But it did take me calling him out if he ever talked to my wife in a disrespectful manner again.

Fuck a contract, you wanna talk shit to my wife you better be ready to square up.

Best of luck.

 

[Joker]

Firing a contractor isn’t as easy as one may think. Follow every step needed.

 

[Looking Glass]

If he is being an asshole to you and your wife be a bigger asshole to him! Your in a tough spot because your under contact but so is he! If he is messing with you and you mess back harder maybe he will walk away and you can get someone to finish how you want it. Or he will finish it how you want it!

I had the same issues with an AC guy putting in an entirely new AC system in my house. I took the approach mentioned above and he ended up doing it the way I wanted. But it did take me calling him out if he ever talked to my wife in a disrespectful manner again.

Fuck a contract, you wanna talk shit to my wife you better be ready to square up.

Best of luck.

Have you ever tried to get a Contractor to come in and finish a job someone has quit? Good Luck, there are few who will touch it. The liability issues with who, what, when and where is a disaster. The best thing is to suck it up and never do business with him again AND blast him with Honest NEGATIVE Reviews. I do not know how you have put up with his Shit as it is?

 

[Javajoe]

Better document everything and take tons of pics of everything. You never know when you may need that info. Time to have him sit down with you guys and talk schedule and Change Order costs to date. Soo many pool contractors are POS. I’m a superintendent who builds schools for a living and I went thru shit like that. Lots of No-Shows. Easier to just work with him till the end but get his buy-in to a completion date and find out your change order costs up to date

 

[PaPaG]

I hate piece of shit contractors that think they can speak to their client like this or push their ideas when you don't want them and end up not liking the design or work...I just Especially if they speak too your wife in a rude manner. Fuck him. Make sure you let us all know his name and company as well...

 

[guest hs]

I would like to know the pool company so I don’t use them. PM would be fine so he’s not on blast

 

[NicPaus]

My Buddy is dealing with similar pool build. Would not wait like I told him. Wanted it now. Every Contractor I know is Slammed. My first break this weekend in 2 months. I was working late everyday doing my best and losing my mind. Hope it works out. I have everyone but me working this weekend to keep customers happy but still not enough.

 

[Icky]

Just realized this was rant #2 had to go back and read rant #1.

 

[DLC]

Read your contract with the pile of shit, make sure you understand what and how he going to construct your pool project From here on out. Take notes on conversations & keep a log.

i am sure he didn‘t spell out everything 100%, so you can push back in the gray areas.

Compacting trenches is a no brainer and he is just trying to get out of work and doing the job correctly. Make sure he know you are documenting things and any failures he will be oh the hook for.

sounds like he is a real gem of a contractor

also check his lic to see if he has his ducks in order. Cslb lic check in Ca.

 

[Looking Glass]

My Buddy is dealing with similar pool build. Would not wait like I told him. Wanted it now. Every Contractor I know is Slammed. My first break this weekend in 2 months. I was working late everyday doing my best and losing my mind. Hope it works out. I have everyone but me working this weekend to keep customers happy but still not enough.

Read your contract with the pile of shit, make sure you understand what and how he going to construct your pool project From here on out. Take notes on conversations & keep a log.

i am sure he didn‘t spell out everything 100%, so you can push back in the gray areas.

Compacting trenches is a no brainer and he is just trying to get out of work and doing the job correctly. Make sure he know you are documenting things and any failures he will be oh the hook for.

sounds like he is a real gem of a contractor

also check his lic to see if he has his ducks in order. Cslb lic check in Ca.

His Contractors License is a Great place to start, but should have been the First one before getting here. He needs to have a "TALK" with this ass-hole and make clear how excited you were to have a pool and waiting for it to be done. BUT there will be No More B.S. Rude treatment or language to either him or for sure the Wife. I promise if it gets bad enough would inform him to get the F**K off my property and will be suing him for everything including loss of days using the pool. When people get pushed far enough all bets are off and it is let the Damn Pool sit until things are taken care of. I can't imagine what this Guy's issue is, but I'm not paying someone to listen to any SHIT.

 

[HOOTER SLED-]

I'm still trying to figure out why it was so hard to dump the guy when he was already being a lil bitch from the start? Lol.... Blame yourself...u shoulda told that fool to bounce...lol..

 

[yz450mm]

I will preface this response with the fact that I'm a California licensed General contractor, and yes my license number is below 1 Million, LoL. There's only one thing that matters in this situation, and that is what your signed contract says. That guy is obviously a huge douchebag, and should be dealt with accordingly after the fact. But to get down to brass tacks, he is obligated to provide what he signed for in the contract, and you're obligated to pay for what he is to provide in that contract.

Your contract should have included timelines, has he exceeded or ignored those?
You are acting as the GC, and he has to play nice with other contractors. Him calling it his job site is a super douche move, and invalid.
If you guys initially agreed to a price for specific materials and finishes, why is he trying to push different materials after the fact? If what you agreed to is in the contract, he can't change that by law, without your written approval.

If I had to guess, I would bet that somebody besides the owner bid the job for you and signed the contract or estimate, and then the owner came in and realized it was gonna be a huge cost overrun and is trying to recoup costs on verbal change orders.

 

[GRADS]

Your contract should have included timelines, has he exceeded or ignored those?

Very rarely do pool contacts include that. That's why you hear horror stories about them taking so long.

 

[yz450mm]

Very rarely do pool contacts include that. That's why you hear horror stories about them taking so long.

That's interesting, why is that? I do all commercial, so that's not in my wheelhouse.

 

[GRADS]

That's interesting, why is that? I do all commercial, so that's not in my wheelhouse.

I'm not sure, but I've built around 4000 pools and had maybe 10-15 people put a deadline clause in the contract.

 

[NicPaus]

As far as deadline goes. I have had 2 friends go with pool contractors that claim they will be done in 6 -8 weeks when my referrals were not able to start for a few months. The one finished the following winter. The current 1 is barely getting rebar in where the contractor said he would be swimming by now. Both paid 20k plus over my referrals to get it done in summer. Reality check for both. No timelines in contract just verbal nothing they can do.

 

[yz450mm]

As far as deadline goes. I have had 2 friends go with pool contractors that claim they will be done in 6 -8 weeks when my referrals were not able to start for a few months. The one finished the following winter. The current 1 is barely getting rebar in where the contractor said he would be swimming by now. Both paid 20k plus over my referrals to get it done in summer. Reality check for both. No timelines in contract just verbal nothing they can do.

That's completely nuts to me. Can you imagine trying to do business like that as a regular contractor? We would get our asses handed to us and be bankrupt and living in mommy's basement.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

 

[GRADS]

On a side note, I very rarely took more than 4-6 weeks to build a pool unless rain got in the way.

 

[NicPaus]

That's completely nuts to me. Can you imagine trying to do business like that as a regular contractor? We would get our asses handed to us and be bankrupt and living in mommy's basement.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

Pretty sure they base it on home owners only building 1 pool. Majority of my current jobs are repeat customers that are willing to wait. I just hate making them wait that's why i have not been out here to my river pad in 2 months and worked almost every day since. Majority of those days were 12 hour plus. Without customers we got nothing.

 

[yz450mm]

Pretty sure they base it on home owners only building 1 pool. Majority of my current jobs are repeat customers that are willing to wait. I just hate making them wait that's why i have not been out here to my river pad in 2 months and worked almost every day since. Majority of those days were 12 hour plus. Without customers we got nothing.

All my customers are repeat customers or referrals, if I do a shitty job then that dries up and I'm fucked. Just opened escrow on a house, now I need to be on top of my game X2. Worked late today, and I'm still in my work clothes LOL.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

 

[spectra bash]

I'm a little confused on the electrical as to where stuff was run and where it is being mounted? Also you said he doesn't want to do the extra flatwork, only what's on the contract? Would you be paying him outside of the contract for the extras?

yes paying for extra work

 

[spectra bash]

Thanks for the response. I know I need to just ride it out as I’m in the home stretch. But I am going to let him know the rude treatment will not be tolerated.

 

[C-2]

It is the contractor's responsibility to clarify items included in the scope of work. If there is this much confusion with the contract, then technically it is his own fault. But the homeowner should also consider working with the contractor to get beyond the impasse; drawing a line in the sand rarely works out well for either party.

If he is complaining about "extra" work being done for free, then you should suggest a re-group to document where both of you are at in the contract. Use change orders to add/remove items done thus far, and then only go forward on signed change orders for additional work. Your descrip of your electrician's work, and the contractor's response, suggests his position is that he's no longer responsible for that segment of work and you should consider a change order/removing it from the original scope of work. Be careful with items like that, the original contractor can always fall back on "not my responsibility" if something goes wrong with the segment of work performed by another contractor. The old saying goes, "if you touch it, you own it." A contractor is responsible for anything he touches, irrespective if there is a contractual relationship. That's why most contractors will not go in and try to fix somebody else's work; they are assuming another contractors responsibility and the risk associated with it.

Many homeowners confuse a contractor's responsibility under licensing laws, with those responsibilities due under contract (civil) law. A contractor can be in a civil breach, but under licensing laws, administrative case law supports a homeowner cannot simply fire the contractor for the civil breach. So unless you intend to sue the contractor later, you should follow the obligations the contractor is responsible for under licensing laws. If business has not concluded (final payment made) then a homeowner is required to give the contractor proper notice, and an opportunity to make corrections or to finish the job. Otherwise, you have given him a legal excuse not to continue with the work, and he cannot be held responsible for any corrective/completing work if you hire another contractor to finish, or correct, the work.

Every Cali home improvement contract requires a date and description of substantial commencement, and an approximate date of completion. It also requires a a payment schedule identifying when and where a payment will be applied (i.e $4,000 due at completion of rough plumbing). Not including those items does not render a contract invalid, they are simply technical violations of licensing laws. But as you can see, not including them has led to confusion and the project going south. Once again, his responsibility and fault and not yours,, but most homeowners choose the path of working with the contractor to get the job done, as opposed to going civil.


Resources for homeowners: https://www.cslb.ca.gov/About_Us/Library/Guides_And_Publications/

Contract Requirements for contractors (or even homeowners): https://www.cslb.ca.gov/Resources/GuidesAndPublications/ContractingForSuccess.pdf

Good luck with it, think of the end game!

 

[Looking Glass]

It is the contractor's responsibility to clarify items included in the scope of work. If there is this much confusion with the contract, then technically it is his own fault. But the homeowner should also consider working with the contractor to get beyond the impasse; drawing a line in the sand rarely works out well for either party.

If he is complaining about "extra" work being done for free, then you should suggest a re-group to document where both of you are at in the contract. Use change orders to add/remove items done thus far, and then only go forward on signed change orders for additional work. Your descrip of your electrician's work, and the contractor's response, suggests his position is that he's no longer responsible for that segment of work and you should consider a change order/removing it from the original scope of work. Be careful with items like that, the original contractor can always fall back on "not my responsibility" if something goes wrong with the segment of work performed by another contractor. The old saying goes, "if you touch it, you own it." A contractor is responsible for anything he touches, irrespective if there is a contractual relationship. That's why most contractors will not go in and try to fix somebody else's work; they are assuming another contractors responsibility and the risk associated with it.

Many homeowners confuse a contractor's responsibility under licensing laws, with those responsibilities due under contract (civil) law. A contractor can be in a civil breach, but under licensing laws, administrative case law supports a homeowner cannot simply fire the contractor for the civil breach. So unless you intend to sue the contractor later, you should follow the obligations the contractor is responsible for under licensing laws. If business has not concluded (final payment made) then a homeowner is required to give the contractor proper notice, and an opportunity to make corrections or to finish the job. Otherwise, you have given him a legal excuse not to continue with the work, and he cannot be held responsible for any corrective/completing work if you hire another contractor to finish, or correct, the work.

Every Cali home improvement contract requires a date and description of substantial commencement, and an approximate date of completion. It also requires a a payment schedule identifying when and where a payment will be applied (i.e $4,000 due at completion of rough plumbing). Not including those items does not render a contract invalid, they are simply technical violations of licensing laws. But as you can see, not including them has led to confusion and the project going south. Once again, his responsibility and fault and not yours,, but most homeowners choose the path of working with the contractor to get the job done, as opposed to going civil.


Resources for homeowners: https://www.cslb.ca.gov/About_Us/Library/Guides_And_Publications/

Contract Requirements for contractors (or even homeowners): https://www.cslb.ca.gov/Resources/GuidesAndPublications/ContractingForSuccess.pdf

Good luck with it, think of the end game!

Times a great now, and I remember when they were like this right before the Last Bomb. Then real fast contractors were Sucking Shit, and willing to do anything and wheeling and dealing. I am not expecting a No Charge change, but WTF the customer did give you a job. I sure think that a minor change here and there without being charged can and will go along way with the customer. I have always fellt that Word Of Mouth is Your Best or Worst advertisement. Honestly when you are there with all the equipment and maybe understanding a few changes could/should have been suggested by a Experienced Contractor.

P.S. There are others watching the build and interested in how it goes and turns out.

JMO

 

[spectra bash]

It is the contractor's responsibility to clarify items included in the scope of work. If there is this much confusion with the contract, then technically it is his own fault. But the homeowner should also consider working with the contractor to get beyond the impasse; drawing a line in the sand rarely works out well for either party.

If he is complaining about "extra" work being done for free, then you should suggest a re-group to document where both of you are at in the contract. Use change orders to add/remove items done thus far, and then only go forward on signed change orders for additional work. Your descrip of your electrician's work, and the contractor's response, suggests his position is that he's no longer responsible for that segment of work and you should consider a change order/removing it from the original scope of work. Be careful with items like that, the original contractor can always fall back on "not my responsibility" if something goes wrong with the segment of work performed by another contractor. The old saying goes, "if you touch it, you own it." A contractor is responsible for anything he touches, irrespective if there is a contractual relationship. That's why most contractors will not go in and try to fix somebody else's work; they are assuming another contractors responsibility and the risk associated with it.

Many homeowners confuse a contractor's responsibility under licensing laws, with those responsibilities due under contract (civil) law. A contractor can be in a civil breach, but under licensing laws, administrative case law supports a homeowner cannot simply fire the contractor for the civil breach. So unless you intend to sue the contractor later, you should follow the obligations the contractor is responsible for under licensing laws. If business has not concluded (final payment made) then a homeowner is required to give the contractor proper notice, and an opportunity to make corrections or to finish the job. Otherwise, you have given him a legal excuse not to continue with the work, and he cannot be held responsible for any corrective/completing work if you hire another contractor to finish, or correct, the work.

Every Cali home improvement contract requires a date and description of substantial commencement, and an approximate date of completion. It also requires a a payment schedule identifying when and where a payment will be applied (i.e $4,000 due at completion of rough plumbing). Not including those items does not render a contract invalid, they are simply technical violations of licensing laws. But as you can see, not including them has led to confusion and the project going south. Once again, his responsibility and fault and not yours,, but most homeowners choose the path of working with the contractor to get the job done, as opposed to going civil.


Resources for homeowners: https://www.cslb.ca.gov/About_Us/Library/Guides_And_Publications/

Contract Requirements for contractors (or even homeowners): https://www.cslb.ca.gov/Resources/GuidesAndPublications/ContractingForSuccess.pdf

Good luck with it, think of the end game!

All the other flatwork and steps outside of pool were not in the contract. We didnt know what we wanted in those areas until we saw the p[ool comming together. We asked if they would now like to take the job of finishing remainer of concrete and to give us a quote on additional work. They said they would do the work and give a quote. After the argument about wanting my electrical ran underground which my electrician had already ran stub outs for them before build started he then got pissy and said he was pulling his guys off the extra work and didnt want to do any further work for us outside original contract. Big baby kicking his feet. I told him that was fine and got qoutes from others to finish concrete work outside of pool contract. We told him to finish contract work and please exit the property. Thanks for the shitty service.

 

[C-2]

Times a great now, and I remember when they were like this right before the Last Bomb. Then real fast contractors were Sucking Shit, and willing to do anything and wheeling and dealing. I am not expecting a No Charge change, but WTF the customer did give you a job. I sure think that a minor change here and there without being charged can and will go along way with the customer. I have always fellt that Word Of Mouth is Your Best or Worst advertisement. Honestly when you are there with all the equipment and maybe understanding a few changes could/should have been suggested by a Experienced Contractor.

P.S. There are others watching the build and interested in how it goes and turns out.

JMO

Agreed. You said "experienced" contractor and therein lies the problem; those guys are few these days. They have enough wisdom and experience to work with the homeowner, whereas the new guys throw tantrums and threaten to walk off the job because they know there are other jobs waiting for them. If things slow down, hopefully the smash and grab guys will go buh-bye.

 

[grumpy88]

I don't understand guys like that. "Work" is a burden...why it's called work. Change orders or add-ons can be a hassle, but normally you'd charge a percentage bump over your normal, and keep going. In the end, you may work a bit more, but you got paid a bit more as well. Sounds almost as if this guy is working for another contractor, and using your pool as fill in work when his "boss" is slow.

Being under contract makes it tough. A guy like this won't self impose any performance guidelines to abide to. Most customers at the residential level trust them, and won't take it upon themselves to make additions to the contract.

we are having a pool built right now and before we signed the deal all the extra stuff was made out to be no big deal . Just throw a couple of bucks here and there to the Plummer or concrete guys for the extras . Now that it's time for the small stuff it's a massive up charge . It's a shame what you are going through . Ours is still a good relationship

 

[C-2]

All the other flatwork and steps outside of pool were not in the contract. We didnt know what we wanted in those areas until we saw the p[ool comming together. We asked if they would now like to take the job of finishing remainer of concrete and to give us a quote on additional work. They said they would do the work and give a quote. After the argument about wanting my electrical ran underground which my electrician had already ran stub outs for them before build started he then got pissy and said he was pulling his guys off the extra work and didnt want to do any further work for us outside original contract. Big baby kicking his feet. I told him that was fine and got qoutes from others to finish concrete work outside of pool contract. We told him to finish contract work and please exit the property. Thanks for the shitty service.

Good for you, sounds like he wasn't paying attention to details in the first place.

 

[Big B Hova]

I spent 650 smack-a-roos on an above ground pool. Sorry I'm no help

 

[hallett21]

Very rarely do pool contacts include that. That's why you hear horror stories about them taking so long.

I’ve heard so many 50% up front followed by the guy skipping town stories it’s unreal.

Not a secret that pool contractors carry a bigger bond than the rest of us in CA. Not a dig a good pool contractors. But it sure attracts the bad ones.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GRADS]

I’ve heard so many 50% up front followed by the guy skipping town stories it’s unreal.

Not a secret that pool contractors carry a bigger bond than the rest of us in CA. Not a dig a good pool contractors. But it sure attracts the bad ones.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I totally agree. There was a part of me that was always embarrassed about what I did because there were so many shysters. I keep my license current even though I haven't built a pool in years and every time I have to renew my bond I get pissed. It's ridiculous.

 

[hallett21]

I totally agree. There was a part of me that was always embarrassed about what I did because there were so many shysters.

That being said I’ve worked with great pool
contractors and terrible ones. It’s like all construction. There are people who have made a legitimate business and those who have a F450, new license number and a sweet social
media page [emoji6].

I do get a kick out guys telling us they do better electrical work than we do though lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk