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Pool question for the HVAC guys.

Maw

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Because of the location of our Havasu house the pool doesn't warm up until July or so unless the propane heater is used. The wind just sucks the heat out of the pool. The pool builder suggested installing a heat pump or thermal panels. Looking at our equipment I'm thinking, "but I already have two heat pumps installed".

My thought is to wind up four titanium tubing coils that slide down over the cartridge elements inside the filter, these then would exit the filter housing and be cut into the air conditioner's compressor outputs. The heat in the coolant would be rejected to the cooler water in the pool filter instead of the air. The benefit is free heating of the pool and more efficient air conditioner operation.

IMG_2295.jpg


Seems too easy, or what am I missing?
 

Maw

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In August and September we seldom see more than 85F in the pool.

I'm guessing that valves could be installed in the coolant lines to bypass the coils in the pool when the temp reaches a preset level. A little Arduino or similar could easily handle the task.
 

sintax

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Why not run some of those roof mounted solar heaters? My neighbor has that on his pool growing up and it worked great. Can’t imagine it would be very expensive. It’s just a diverter valve and the hoses for the roof.
 

yard dog

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Have you try a Solar cover on the pool ? The cover will heat by day and help keep the heat in at night .
 

Maw

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Pool builder said the black PVC solar panels only last about four years in the Havasu sun and heat. It was a tad over $5,000 for those. The hillside adjacent to the equipment has the perfect slope and projection. Just didn't want to be replacing these panels every few years.

Of course the pool guy my have simply been trying to upsale me on the heat pump approach. ;)

We tried the "bubble-pack" approach, should have anchored it down as it only lasted a few weeks before it was gone. Could try it again though this time with anchors to the coping or such. The first one was only $300 or so.
 

$hot

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I like the idea of fabbing up the line! Do you have the know how to do it? I’m sure it can be done, question is will the compressor handle the added tubing? And will it change the cooling efficiency having a portion of the system that opens and closes
 

LHC Kirby

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Pool builder said the black PVC solar panels only last about four years in the Havasu sun and heat. It was a tad over $5,000 for those. The hillside adjacent to the equipment has the perfect slope and projection. Just didn't want to be replacing these panels every few years.

Of course the pool guy my have simply been trying to upsale me on the heat pump approach. ;)

We tried the "bubble-pack" approach, should have anchored it down as it only lasted a few weeks before it was gone. Could try it again though this time with anchors to the coping or such. The first one was only $300 or so.

Build 6’x6’ squares of sprinkler pipe... wrap bubble stuff toss into pool.... way less likely to leave in the wind.. easily taken out and stacked against a wall to enjoy the pool. I haven’t done this, but a friends pool does.
 

Ziggy

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My pool has the same issue in that it has wind blowing across it causing significant cooling.
A 100 coil of black drip system tubing will do much the same as the rooftop solar panels.
I just don't have a good location to put them.
I did have some success using the blue bubble cover this past season for overnight usage after using the heater for a hour or two in the morning to take that chill out of the water.
 

Maw

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Build 6’x6’ squares of sprinkler pipe... wrap bubble stuff toss into pool.... way less likely to leave in the wind.. easily taken out and stacked against a wall to enjoy the pool. I haven’t done this, but a friends pool does.

I might try this out. We used to use 6' diameter "hula hoops" with the bubble pack sewn into the center, I had forgotten about those. We'd toss 15 or so of these onto the pool at the Huntington Beach house and it did a decent job of keeping the pool warm plus they store easier than a 25' x 35' pile of bubble pack.

I'll look inside the AC compressors to see how accessible the lines are. The PITA will be purging and refilling the lines with the correct refrigerant. And no, I don't have the know-how, but figure I could get an HVAC guy out to do the hard part if I got the coils fabbed up, covers removed, lines laid in place, etc.

Thanks to all.
 

GRADS

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My first question is how does a pool in Havasu not hit 85 until July? But if you don't want solar panels and you're rigging things...Most pool equipment has a drain/hose bib plumbed in at the pad. I had a customer hook like 200' of black garden hose to it, threw the hose up on his roof and had the end of it drain into the pool. It worked surprisingly well.😂
 

Flying_Lavey

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Um....... except the heat pumps would heat the water in the summer and cool it in the winter.....

In the winter if you ran the pipe loop off the compressor, you would rob the house from the heat for the pool.

It could be done but in order to do it right, you'd have to have it engineered pretty well and have some pretty decent controls and valves built into the system.
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$hot

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valves on the pool pump are easy, just isolate
Um....... except the heat pumps would heat the water in the summer and cool it in the winter.....

In the winter if you ran the pipe loop off the compressor, you would rob the house from the heat for the pool.

It could be done but in order to do it right, you'd have to have it engineered pretty well and have some pretty decent controls and valves built into the system.
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Flying_Lavey

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valves on the pool pump are easy, just isolate
You'd need to isolate the refrigerant lines. They also need to be controlled to maintain head pressure or the system won't work correctly either. The pool system is easy, the refrigerant system is FAR more complex.


BTW, many supermarkets used to use this kind of system to heat their water or the interior of the store. It really was marginal at best.

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Maw

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My first question is how does a pool in Havasu not hit 85 until July? But if you don't want solar panels and you're rigging things...Most pool equipment has a drain/hose bib plumbed in at the pad. I had a customer hook like 200' of black garden hose to it, threw the hose up on his roof and had the end of it drain into the pool. It worked surprisingly well.😂

Our other Havasu house has the same problem. Both sit on bluffs with the pool deck facing the lake. With a modest breeze in town we have a pretty good blow coming up the slope and across the back yard. Of course the view is worth it. :)

Pool_deck.jpg
 
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Ziggy

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My first question is how does a pool in Havasu not hit 85 until July? But if you don't want solar panels and you're rigging things...Most pool equipment has a drain/hose bib plumbed in at the pad. I had a customer hook like 200' of black garden hose to it, threw the hose up on his roof and had the end of it drain into the pool. It worked surprisingly well.😂
Wind.
I built my pool with sprayers and deck jets thinking I'd need to create some evaporative cooling since most everyone I talked with said their pools would get in the mid 90s+. Even chose a fairly light colored plaster. Little did I realize how much wind would actually blow across it and cool it. Even in last summers multiple weeks of 120° it barely maintained 86-87.
Needless to say, I never switch on deck jets and sprayers except to show that they are there.
 
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boatdoc55

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In August and September we seldom see more than 85F in the pool.

I'm guessing that valves could be installed in the coolant lines to bypass the coils in the pool when the temp reaches a preset level. A little Arduino or similar could easily handle the task.
What Havasu do you live in!!! If I don't cool mine in July it can get to 96 degrees. I've actually seen our neighbors at 97. When the wife wants to start swimming in April we need to heat with the heat pump.
 

Sherpa

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check out FAFCO water solar rooftop panels... Their located in Chico, Ca.

nice Carrier units....... 410A for sure.

--Try using those bubble-type solar pool covers. my sister uses one on here pool. and those raise pool temps ALOT.

--Sherpa
 

boatdoc55

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Wind.
I built my pool with sprayers and deck jets thinking I'd need to create some evaporative cooling since most everyone I talked with said their pools would get in the mid 90s+. Even chose a fairly light colored plaster. Little did I realize how much wind would actually blow across it and cool it. Even in last summers multiple weeks of 120° it barely maintained 86-87.
Needless to say, I never switch on deck jets and sprayers except to show that they are there.
We do the same thing Zig. Turn the deck jets on to show some one how they work and how cool they are ;), then turn them off till the next person wants to see how cool they are. Damn things are loud also. Come swimming time of the year we just set the heat pump at 86 and let er rip. Electric bill isn't all that bad.
 

Riverbound

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A dedicated heat pump for the pool will be a far better investment. It could be don’t but considerable trial and errors and controls to keep the refrigeration cycle running correctly.
 

DRYHEAT

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My first question is how does a pool in Havasu not hit 85 until July? But if you don't want solar panels and you're rigging things...Most pool equipment has a drain/hose bib plumbed in at the pad. I had a customer hook like 200' of black garden hose to it, threw the hose up on his roof and had the end of it drain into the pool. It worked surprisingly well.😂
Shade, wind, and lack of humidity in early summer, most pools mirror the overnight low temperature unless the humidity is up. My pool on the north side of my house gets almost no sun whatsoever in the winter🙁 and it’s not in full sun in the summer till about 10:30 AM. I use the heat a lot in early summer because I like warm water 87°+ 😊
 

Melloyellovector

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Heat pump and be done. Your trying to reinvent. Your labor and material costs to truly do what you want correctly will likely exceed heat pump and work marginally at best.
You might as well be saying my ac doesn’t cool my kitchen, can’t I just open the freezer door and throw a fan in front of it.
Other options would be motorized track mount pool cover. Cost will exceed heat pump
Solar - cost will meet or exceed heat pump (yes you can use quality panels that will last. Usually it’s the couplings that fail yearly not panels. On a hillside easy fix. On a roof not a fan )
Geothermal cost for sure will exceed heatpump

Then mention your other house Havasu with a view, same problem. lmao
Your stepping over a dollar to save a dime.
 

Mandelon

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I have an electric roll out cover, and rooftop rubber tube panels. Each was $5000. The roll out cover heats the top six inches to 105, and really helps cut down chemical usage and evaporation loss. In the summer you have to stir it up the mix the cool bottom layers with the top layers.
 

DaveH

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i know a guy who is actively working in this field.......applying for patents.......but his idea is not to heat the pool but to use pool water to conserve electricity. but in this case the effects are the same.

his patent work surrounds using pool water to cool the freon in your home AC system. this greatly reduces how much your AC compressor needs to run and saves electricity. never thought about how it might effect the temperature of the pool, but makes sense that there would have to be an impact.
 

Flying_Lavey

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Just drove past this house.... this would work well and cheap!
20210115_125528.jpg


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PlanB

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We have a block wall around our entire yard that protects pretty good from the wind, but our pool always seems to be on the cool side. I think our problem is evaporation and cool water filling the pool. We actually get fairly cool water into our house in the summer unlike a lot of people. The warmest our pool ever gets is 90, and that's rare.
 

DRYHEAT

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Just thinking out loud, I always wondered if, at least out here in Havasu where the concrete is very hot in the summer if a person could wind coils of tubing like radiant heat in concrete floors to run in and out of your pool so it would heat your pool and cool the concrete decking. Possibly @Melloyellovector might know if it’s been tried or considered?
 

Riverbound

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i know a guy who is actively working in this field.......applying for patents.......but his idea is not to heat the pool but to use pool water to conserve electricity. but in this case the effects are the same.

his patent work surrounds using pool water to cool the freon in your home AC system. this greatly reduces how much your AC compressor needs to run and saves electricity. never thought about how it might effect the temperature of the pool, but makes sense that there would have to be an impact.


Would work Very similar to geo thermal. Not sure what part of the process would be patented outside of maybe how it ties into the pool equipment.
 

Melloyellovector

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Just thinking out loud, I always wondered if, at least out here in Havasu where the concrete is very hot in the summer if a person could wind coils of tubing like radiant heat in concrete floors to run in and out of your pool so it would heat your pool and cool the concrete decking. Possibly @Melloyellovector might know if it’s been tried or considered?

I actually was considering exactly this a couple months ago. But would need to be tested in a place like Havasu.
Would not be less expensive then alternatives though.
The problem I’d imagine would be it’s so hot that the concrete would likely super heat the pool and not cool the deck. Unless chiller was ran in pool to combat the heated water returning all day.
Would need a shit load of small tubing, and a bypass line or dedicated pump to slow down the water to get heat / cool transfer to deck
If I get my dads house, I’m completely redoing pool/yard and I’ll likely test it. We’ll see
 

GRADS

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Our other Havasu house has the same problem. Both sit on bluffs with the pool deck facing the lake. With a modest breeze in town we have a pretty good blow coming up the slope and across the back yard. Of course the view is worth it. :)

View attachment 961887
Your OTHER Havasu house? :eek: Sack up and pay the $5K for some solar panels.
 

wzuber

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Our other Havasu house has the same problem. Both sit on bluffs with the pool deck facing the lake. With a modest breeze in town we have a pretty good blow coming up the slope and across the back yard. Of course the view is worth it. :)

View attachment 961887
Ohhh....you rich people and your problems....smh....haha
 

Maw

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Thanks for all the good ideas and feedback. I'll mull it around and post up what I settle in on.

BTW the other house is now just rental income.
 

KoolPop

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Thanks for all the good ideas and feedback. I'll mull it around and post up what I settle in on.

BTW the other house is now just rental income.
We've had a Heliocoil system in Havasu for 17 years. Original had the terra cotta colored panels, after a few years they faded out to almost white. Mojave solar, did the original install said, "That's not right" and replaced all 12 panels with black....at NO CHARGE! This system gets us about a month at each end of the season. After that, the nighttime temperature just drags it down so cold and the lower daytime temps just won't let it keep up. Great product and great customer service. The panels were warranteed for 15 years. I have them come out at the beginning of spring and have them do a "tune up" to check for leaks and any other problems that may turn up. Mojave Solar in Havasu, guys name is Danny.
 
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