Power Grid

[TCHB]

Put s

Utlitity scale Solar is more difficult than you think in Ca.
A key problem in most areas, is there is not capacity on the existing Transmission Power Line Infrastrure to support more Solar Supply.

To fully understand this problem, you have to look at the “interconnection studies” to see why its so expensive to add new facility’s/supply to the grid. Bottom line.. in most areas in Ca, you ahve to “upgrade the transmission grid” to support the added capacity, Which can cost 10-100X the cost of the Solar Plant you trying to develop.

Then compound that problem by 1000, because the Utility’s are constantly getting interconnction requests daily. Most Planning for the potential new interconnections is extremely difficult, takes a very long time, and is truly very expensive.

I am all for Nuke Power… we should should have 6 under construction in CA alone right now. That opinion is just a “national security” opinion.

During the last RFP process the interconnections are critical and that is reason we built 1500MWs on existing plant sites.

 

[Taboma]

Utlitity scale Solar is more difficult than you think in Ca.
A key problem in most areas, is there is not capacity on the existing Transmission Power Line Infrastrure to support more Solar Supply.

To fully understand this problem, you have to look at the “interconnection studies” to see why its so expensive to add new facility’s/supply to the grid. Bottom line.. in most areas in Ca, you ahve to “upgrade the transmission grid” to support the added capacity, Which can cost 10-100X the cost of the Solar Plant you trying to develop.

Then compound that problem by 1000, because the Utility’s are constantly getting interconnction requests daily. Most Planning for the potential new interconnections is extremely difficult, takes a very long time, and is truly very expensive.

I am all for Nuke Power… we should should have 6 under construction in CA alone right now. That opinion is just a “national security” opinion.

Wife builds components for the Nuke plants. Her customers are all in the east and south east. I agree on the nuke plants, now that I'm retired and don't have to employee the useless "Gamer" slackers that the local union 569 shoved up my ass when San Onofre was dumping workers as it neared completion.
It took years in some cases to retrain some of those thieving bums who got accustomed to walking around all day with one stick of conduit to appear busy and playing poker in the HVAC ducting.
That's when I got a first hand education in just why nuke plants and other projects of that magnitude cost so damned much.

Anyway, I'm old, I'm thankful to have witnessed and lived the amazing transformation from the late 40's to now. I'd love to be around in another 30 years just to see it, good or bad, but that's for my kids to experience, not me.

As for us, well, God willing, we've got a lot of options and cards we still have turned over.

 

[Xring01]

Here is a well written article from WECC, (whom I respect) regarding the Western States Energy grid, impacts of renewables, forcing the needs for more reserves.

Again, this is just one article/data point..

Power reliability issues loom as western US states ramp up renewable usage https://www.foxnews.com/us/power-reliability-issues-loom-western-us-states-ramp-renewable-usage Explore the Fox News apps that are right for you at http://www.foxnews.com/apps-products/index.html.

 

[Taboma]

Here is a well written article from WECC, (whom I respect) regarding the Western States Energy grid, impacts of renewables, forcing the needs for more reserves.

Again, this is just one article/data point..

Power reliability issues loom as western US states ramp up renewable usage https://www.foxnews.com/us/power-reliability-issues-loom-western-us-states-ramp-renewable-usage Explore the Fox News apps that are right for you at http://www.foxnews.com/apps-products/index.html.

" There is a need to keep a higher priority on grid reliability, according to experts." No, really, who knew ?

https://www.wecc.org/Reliability/2022%20Reliability%20Risk%20Priorities.pdf

 

[TCHB]

" There is a need to keep a higher priority on grid reliability, according to experts." No, really, who knew ?

https://www.wecc.org/Reliability/2022%20Reliability%20Risk%20Priorities.pdf

It is all about money and your rates. We just flew to Maui and had a delay to mechanical problem. Where was the back up plane?

 

[Taboma]

It is all about money and your rates. We just flew to Maui and had a delay to mechanical problem. Where was the back up plane?

Of course it is, and in what make believe world has any entity ever not been petitioning for more and better. Regardless it's frustrating to watch our leaders consistently attempt to motivate technology and industry using looming crisis as the incentive.

 

[TCHB]

Of course it is, and in what make believe world has any entity ever not been petitioning for more and better. Regardless it's frustrating to watch our leaders consistently attempt to motivate technology and industry using looming crisis as the incentive.

There is a lot of young smart people out there that will figure it out. I never thought I would see a large 500mw plant with a nod level of under 5. in 2000 a gas plant was 200 plus.

 

[pronstar]

What is the rough cost of a backup generator for a house?

On the low end, heres what i have into my setup.
I have a 9500 watt gennie that will run my entire first floor, including hvac.

Generator - $1000
Misc parts and transfer switch - $450
Electrician to wire it up - $450

It's gets me thru emergencies.
Had to get a voltage regulator (under $100) to clean up the power for my electronics, as my gennie isn't an inverter.

 

[Xring01]

On the low end, heres what i have into my setup.
I have a 9500 watt gennie that will run my entire first floor, including hvac.

Generator - $1000
Misc parts and transfer switch - $450
Electrician to wire it up - $450

It's gets me thru emergencies.
Had to get a voltage regulator (under $100) to clean up the power for my electronics, as my gennie isn't an inverter.

What Pronstar has done…
Is the low budget solution for putting a Portable Generator that typicallly runs on gasoline. There are Pros/Cons to this.
Pros, for experienced people, this is a low budget problem solving solution.
Cons, 9500 watts, that will run out of gas during a long outage, meanign you have to add gasoline to a hot engine during a long outage, creating safety concern during the re fueling.. and hopefully not starting a raging fire. Typically this is not a ATS Automatic Transer Switch type of system.

A whole home back up solution will run you $15K-$20K, you get a 22kw/200 amp service running off natural gas or propane, within 10 seconds of an outage, the genset powers up and runs until you run out of nat gas or propane.
Alot more expensive, but alot safer, and runs 200 amps… WHOLE HOUSE BACKUP… not 1/3 house….

So when you go down that rabbit hole.
WHAT ARE OUR PRIORITYs, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO BACK UP, AND FOR HOW LONG?

 

[hallett21]

On the low end, heres what i have into my setup.
I have a 9500 watt gennie that will run my entire first floor, including hvac.

Generator - $1000
Misc parts and transfer switch - $450
Electrician to wire it up - $450

It's gets me thru emergencies.
Had to get a voltage regulator (under $100) to clean up the power for my electronics, as my gennie isn't an inverter.

I can’t even show up and wire it for that in so cal…. We need to move lol

 

[hallett21]

What Pronstar has done…
Is the low budget solution for putting a Portable Generator that typicallly runs on gasoline. There are Pros/Cons to this.
Pros, for experienced people, this is a low budget problem solving solution.
Cons, 9500 watts, that will run out of gas during a long outage, meanign you have to add gasoline to a hot engine during a long outage, creating safety concern during the re fueling.. and hopefully not starting a raging fire. Typically this is not a ATS Automatic Transer Switch type of system.

A whole home back up solution will run you $15K-$20K, you get a 22kw/200 amp service running off natural gas or propane, within 10 seconds of an outage, the genset powers up and runs until you run out of nat gas or propane.
Alot more expensive, but alot safer, and runs 200 amps… WHOLE HOUSE BACKUP… not 1/3 house….

So when you go down that rabbit hole.
WHAT ARE OUR PRIORITYs, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO BACK UP, AND FOR HOW LONG?

X2

I set up all of my family and friends on @pronstar style. I’m not sure if he has the same but we set a dedicated panel for emergency circuits. These are also people I can walk through a few safety issues if need be. It’s very important to clarify that these back up systems can and will hurt people if not installed properly.

Now if you have the money there’s nothing better than an ATS and your whole house running on a backup generator. Just remember they are thirsty and if you don’t want to pony up for a liquid cooled NG unit or better yet low RPM diesel, they are very loud. Other than that they are worth every penny.

 

[Taboma]

I find the primary considerations when comparing systems types and their respective pricing are Outage:

Frequency (Historically, projected)
Duration (Historically, projected)
Cost of losing power (Refrigeration as an example)
Medical reasons (Life support, hazardous weather)
Security concerns
comfort
convenience
Susceptible to utility PSPS outages
Ability to maintain and refuel

You're essentially buying Power Outage Insurance. So what's it worth to you ? Just how necessary is it ?

As an example, we're not subject to SDG&E PSPS outages, and our circuit is not subject to rolling power conservation outages.
So when frequency and duration are examined, we suffer maybe 1 to 3 short duration (Less than 2 hours) occurrences annually, if any at all.

Being a retired electrical contractor, and my son being an active one, who makes good money selling gen sets, makes the doing part easy.

But for me, the "WHY" is the wall I keep hitting and WHY I've got my trusty little Honda 2200I fueled up as my insurance policy. Historically, I've used this insurance maybe three or four times in the past 12 years. Usually about the time I get a couple of cords out, the lights as if by magic come back on.

So how much is that security blanket worth ?
I've been driving for almost 60 years, yet I can count with two fingers the number of flat tires I've suffered out on the highway, but I still carry a spare, but a spare is cheap insurance and so was my little Honda.

It's easy to feel paranoid and threatened after reading the MSM or RDP regularly scheduled Power Grid Failing D&G reports. Just as it's easy to watch MSM and feel the need to hire a full time security team for protection.
Nothing sells better than Fear Just ask your elected officials, they've learned from experience that Crisis Sells.

So what's it worth to you ? How much Outage insurance do you need and how much can you, or are you willing to pay for it ? I recommend you start there.

 

[pronstar]

Typically this is not a ATS Automatic Transer Switch type of system.

Yup.
In an outage, I have to:
- flip the transfer switch
- wheel the generator outside and gas it up
- plug-in my 40’, 50A cord
- start the generator
- switch the circuits in the sub-panel to “on”
- un-do everything when the power is restored

Our house is a massive work in progress…money for an automatic setup is best spent elsewhere for now. But we will eventually get a good, automatic whole-house setup.

 

[Xring01]

It appears alot my comments are now be validated by NERC…
If this is what they are saying publically,,, then we now the true story is alot worse…

 

[CLdrinker]

It appears alot my comments are now be validated by NERC…
If this is what they are saying publically,,, then we now the true story is alot worse…

LMAO. No shit? Everyone knows this, but our leaders continue pushing electric.

Oh well job security.

 

[Xring01]

LMAO. No shit? Everyone knows this, but our leaders continue pushing electric.

Oh well job security.

You hit the “Job Security“ statement… 100% on point.
I get serious job offers monthly if not weekly… I am not looking… LOL…

Electrical Power Industry is BOOMING… with no end in sight for awhile.

 

[Taboma]

It appears alot my comments are now be validated by NERC…
If this is what they are saying publically,,, then we now the true story is alot worse…

Yes NERC's website is quite informative. This is essentially NERC

"NERC is the watchdog organization that develops and improves the reliability standards, monitors and enforces compliance, provides education and leadership to the industry, and issues penalties for violations or nonconformance."

Can you shed some light on under what provisions they can "Enforce" by issuing penalties for violations and nonconformance ?
In other words, just how large is their hammer of justice ?

 

[CLdrinker]

You hit the “Job Security“ statement… 100% on point.
I get serious job offers monthly if not weekly… I am not looking… LOL…

Electrical Power Industry is BOOMING… with no end in sight for awhile.

I was getting head hunters contacting me constantly wanting me to leave my spot and go to work for them 1yr contract for only 10-15hr more. I tell them 5yrs guaranteed + remote anywhere in the US and they finally have backed off.

We are on a temp hiring freeze. We have been on a run scooping up anyone with a pulse though.

 

[mesquito_creek]

NERC is the Chris Collensworth of electric utilities. “Captain Obvious” telling us electricity demand is going up and more investment is needed.

NERC wouldn’t exists if it concluded local government, ratepayers and shareholders are best suited to determine the correct levels of risk and reliability.

 

[Xring01]

For a body thats supposed to be Captain Obvious,

Then why aren’t they changing / pushing for regulatory change to fix the “reliability problem” that they are creating.
Their hammer is the Regulatory Policy’s they produce.

This youtube video clearly shows they see the “reliability problem”, what policys have changed or being developed to fix that problem?

Thats the part that piss’s me off.

A major Natural Plant on the East Coast was about to break ground, it was cancelled… Obviously for lots of reasons, but why build 20-30 year ROI Project, when President of the US is telling the world he wants to everything green. Does his best to slow/stall anything to do with Nat Gas… Gotta find that article I read, and post it here.

Regulations/Policys have to change, or reliability will only get worse… watch the video again.

Trust me… I benefit a lot from the Utility Scale Green projects… which is why my industry has historically long lead times. But thats doe not mean the grid is more reliable and the cost to the rate payers gets cheaper… its the exact opposite.