Power Steering leak and questions

[LargeOrangeFont]

My boat has an 04 Merc small block. I have developed a power steering leak at the pump. Lines all look clean and dry, cooler looks clean and dry, steering valve is clean and dry.

The snout and pulley of the PS pump is dry, reservoir is empty, and below the pump the water lines are oily, but nothing dripping with PS fluid. There is PS fluid residue from the fill cap and around the reservoir.

Can the reservoir on the back of the pump leak? If so is this serviceable? Should I just buy a new pump and be done?

Is there anything in the steering ram that might fail and push fluid out the reservoir/cap?

 

[Bpracing1127]

Have you tried a different prop?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Have you tried a different prop?

Yes. Same problem.

 

[Classic Daycruiser]

The backside of the pump has the High and low pressure lines. I'm not sure if there's a pressure relief valve or not on the unit.

The ones I see leaking from the back are the low pressure lines, because they just use a hose clamp, and the hose breaks after 15-20 years.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

My boat has an 04 Merc small block. I have developed a power steering leak at the pump. Lines all look clean and dry, cooler looks clean and dry, steering valve is clean and dry.

The snout and pulley of the PS pump is dry, reservoir is empty, and below the pump the water lines are oily, but nothing dripping with PS fluid. There is PS fluid residue from the fill cap and around the reservoir.

Can the reservoir on the back of the pump leak? If so is this serviceable? Should I just buy a new pump and be done?

Is there anything in the steering ram that might fail and push fluid out the reservoir/cap?

Yes , the reservoir is sealed by o rings , they can harden and leak

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The backside of the pump has the High and low pressure lines. I'm not sure if there's a pressure relief valve or not on the unit.

The ones I see leaking from the back are the low pressure lines, because they just use a hose clamp, and the hose breaks after 15-20 years.

Agreed

Both lines and outlets are dry.

The area around the high pressure line has a bit of residue on it.


bottom of pump/reservoir is wet..

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Yes , the reservoir is sealed by o rings , they can harden and leak

Thank you.. I believe this is my problem. Going to remove the pump now.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

As you can see I have residue everywhere on the reservoir side of the pump

.

 

[Rajobigguy]

You're probably better off just buying a rebuilt unit. There are so many subtle differences from year to year that a lot times the rebuild kits and seals wont work on your pump.

 

[Classic Daycruiser]

I can't tell for sure from the picture, but the serpentine belt appears to have wear on the edge of the belt, which could be alignment issue.

The graded bolts holding the pump on, don't look original, as well as the hose clamp on the low pressure side.

I've seen pumps wear out bearing/seals, do to the pulley not aligned with the serpentine belt. You might want to see a parts break down, and look for missing shim washers.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Well.. it’s out. I suppose I’ll buy a new one based on the above.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I can't tell for sure from the picture, but the serpentine belt appears to have wear on the edge of the belt, which could be alignment issue.

The graded bolts holding the pump on, don't look original, as well as the hose clamp on the low pressure side.

I've seen pumps wear out bearing/seals, do to the pulley not aligned with the serpentine belt. You might want to see a parts break down, and look for missing shim washers.

I think it was just the picture, but the belt looks great. I believe everything back there to be as delivered from Cobra. Boat had 49 hours when purchased, original owner never said anything about PS issues. Boat has 202 hours at this moment. I am going to replace the belt, since I have it off again, and have time.

 

[rrrr]

The swelling of the return line is a precursor to failure. I'd replace it too.

 

[milkmoney]

Get that shit fixed boy. Ur my ride back from the pirate...[emoji39][emoji202]

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[wsuwrhr]

Mopar pump/housing.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Get that shit fixed boy. Ur my ride back from the pirate...[emoji39][emoji202]

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Working on it dad.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Ok, I am thinking I may take my pump to get rebuilt, as there are a couple places in Santa Ana that seem to have a good reputation for rebuilding these things.

The pump is a pretty common Saginaw pump that is like $50 with a semi unique reservoir for the boat.

A new "marine PS pump" is $400, which seems oppressively high given the above.

Also read that some people simply buy a $50 car PS pump, swap the pressure regulator with the one from their failed pump, put their marine reservoir on and go boating.

More to follow tomorrow after I attempt to get the pump rebuilt.

 

[Yellowboat]

View attachment 753095 Well.. it’s out. I suppose I’ll buy a new one based on the above.

That looks so like a mid 80s gm pump.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

That looks so like a mid 80s gm pump.

It is exactly that.

 

[Yellowboat]

Then dump question, what make that any different then a stock gm model? As in I am sure the stock gm is way cheaper then the merc

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Then dump question, what make that any different then a stock gm model? As in I am sure the stock gm is way cheaper then the merc

Reservoir, and possibly the pressure regulator. New GM pump is $50, new Merc/Sierra/Hardin pump is ~$400.

I think I will try to have mine that I know works, and fits perfectly rebuilt for hopefully somewhere in between those 2 figures.

I have seen a few no name "marine" replacements for $~200.

 

[Bigbore500r]

View attachment 753095 Well.. it’s out. I suppose I’ll buy a new one based on the above.

What in the 99-13 GM truck is that pump?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

What in the 99-13 GM truck is that pump?

The question you should be asking is "What in the Saginaw is wrong with that pump?

 

[Bigbore500r]

The question you should be asking is "What in the Saginaw is wrong with that pump?

This is true! Well versed in quiet operation

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

This is true! Well versed in quiet operation

It so quiet you don't even know when it is dry.


FWIW this was really easy to pull. It took about 30 mins including emptying my engine area and removing the doghouse around my engine. Cleaning up the mess in the bilge without getting it all over the interior of the boat took over an hour.

 

[Rajobigguy]

It is exactly that.

Well almost. I think you have a good idea in having your existing pump redone @ someplace that rebuilds them. I generally try to dissuade people from doing it themselves (even though they are pretty simple) only because there are so many subtle differences from year to year and you may end up buying several rebuild kits before you get the right combination of parts but if your taking it to a re manufacturer they will all the parts and can mix and match as necessary.

 

[Universal Elements]

I’ve used these guys several times when I lived in OC. Reasonable and very good.

http://jjaxlesupply.com/

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Well almost. I think you have a good idea in having your existing pump redone @ someplace that rebuilds them. I generally try to dissuade people from doing it themselves (even though they are pretty simple) only because there are so many subtle differences from year to year and you may end up buying several rebuild kits before you get the right combination of parts but if your taking it to a re manufacturer they will all the parts and can mix and match as necessary.

Agreed. At this point since I have the pump and not the boat, I don't mind paying more than I would for an off the shelf pump car pump to know that everything will connect exactly as it did before, and the pump is tested and known to be good.

To be honest I just don't want to have to clean up the PS fluid in the bilge again.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I’ve used these guys several times when I lived in OC. Reasonable and very good.

http://jjaxlesupply.com/

Thank you. This is exactly where I am headed.

 

[Universal Elements]

Thank you. This is exactly where I am headed.

No problem. For Starters and Alternators (any car, truck, rv or marine) these guys are kick ass.

https://www.google.com/search?q=reb...afari#istate=lrl:iv&rlimm=2393531788500565641

 

[02HoWaRd26]

I have been battling this same issue, was pretty sure but not positive until a few weeks ago if was ps or not. Mine is the separate reservoir, I’m so sick of chasing this mother F’r i ordered a new pump, both hoses and a new reservoir. I’m sure i could’ve continued to trouble shoot and chase but I’m over it.
Yours is there any play in the cap? As lame as it sounds it is a vented pressure cap, could just have needed a new cap.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I have been battling this same issue, was pretty sure but not positive until a few weeks ago if was ps or not. Mine is the separate reservoir, I’m so sick of chasing this mother F’r i ordered a new pump, both hoses and a new reservoir. I’m sure i could’ve continued to trouble shoot and chase but I’m over it.
Yours is there any play in the cap? As lame as it sounds it is a vented pressure cap, could just have needed a new cap.

When there was just a little residue on the fill spout and no leak, I figured it could be the cap. I literally wiped up the little residue there was a month ago when I serviced the boat. I am over it as well. I don’t even care what it is at this point, I just don’t want to deal with it twice.

Literally 2 weeks ago when I ran the boat the PS fluid level was fine, and there was no leak, so the condition of something changed.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

When there was just a little residue on the fill spout and no leak, I figured it could be the cap. I literally wiped up the little residue there was a month ago when I serviced the boat. I am over it as well. I don’t even care what it is at this point, I just don’t want to deal with it twice.

Literally 2 weeks ago when I ran the boat the PS fluid level was fine, and there was no leak, so the condition of something changed.

Yea Sunday mine went from drips in the bilge to a biggggg mess and empty reservoir. So it’s all torn apart now, parts should arrive Friday, fingers crossed, as that’ll mean baus lady doesn’t miss a sun’day lol

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Just dropped it off at J&J

$250 to rebuild my pump. They had it done in an hour.


Looks like they do brake boosters and steering racks too. Filing that away for later

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

An update to rare problems that seem to plague only me -

PS pump was fixed and sitting in my garage waiting to go back to Havasu. @02HoWaRd26 needed a dimension on a pulley and it was easy for me to wander out to the garage and measure mine for him as it was sitting in a box.

I measure the pulley and note that the pump is a little wet on the back of the reservoir. I wiped this thing dry 2 days ago and wipe it again. I flip it upside down and watch the area in the middle of the back of the reservoir... after 20 seconds it is a little wet. This may have been my original problem, I have no idea. The area where this leak is coming from is a little scraped up, it was not like that when I gave it to them. There is a little line in the paint that I think is a crack in the steel canister. it is right on a strengthening rib.

I bring the pump back in this morning, They look at it, grind the paint off the suspect area, and we look at it, it looks fine. I am doubtful it is fine but cant see anything in the raw metal. I walk out to my truck and flip it upside down again and wait.. sure enough it starts getting wet, and the small crack is now visible. So I take it back inside. The guy says he has never seen a saginaw PS pump canister leak from there like that... and rebuilding PS pumps is his entire life.

Anyway, they are going to weld the canister up it sounds like. I'm glad I didn't just take it back to Havasu and install it. The leak is so small and so slow, they obviously didn't even notice it during the bench test of the pump.

Addtionally my RZR is down with a lower control arm bolt that galled up and seized when I got it loose by a turn. It would not tighten back up or loosen. I was trying to change the front LCA bushings at the time. I had to cut the nut off with the dremel. That part is done and I have new bolts and nuts. I still need to swap the control arm bushings on the drivers side, I ran out of time a couple weeks ago to finish the job, due to cutting the nut off.

So all Havasu toys are inoperable right now. I need about a hour to put the boat back together, and 30 mins on the RZR and I should be back in business provided the PS pump gets fixed.

 

[SoCalDave]

Good luck with getting both operational again.

 

[Rajobigguy]

The crack in a stamped steel housing is really unusual. Hopefully your past the headaches.

 

[lbhsbz]

The crack in a stamped steel housing is really unusual. Hopefully your past the headaches.

Not really. Stamped steel is under a bit of stress. Add in the vibrations that typically occur in a PS pump, and it's a recipe for a failure. Lots of things crack that aren't supposed to. I watched the guy at the EARLS counter argue with a customer over an aluminum AN fitting for a power steering application...EARLS guy flat out refused to sell it to him, and told him he needed the steel fitting because with the vibrations of a high pressure hydraulic system, the aluminum one would fail. There was a steel fitting on the counter, but the EARLS guy told the customer if we wanted a pretty blue aluminum one to order it elsewhere as he wouldn't be responsible for a failure. Guy stormed out and left the steel one on the counter. Earls dude said he's seem 'em break, and is over it.

 

[530RL]

I have the same problem with the power steering pump in my 76 jeep.

I have bought rebuilt and new and over time get the same problem due to lack of use. Only a couple times a month. People have told me rebuilt doesn’t solve the problem of a slightly bent input shaft from too tight a belt. But even after buying new, it eventually leaks.

The only solution that finally worked due to it sitting is Prestone’s anti-leak power steering fluid. Not the perfect solution but it works.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Not really. Stamped steel is under a bit of stress. Add in the vibrations that typically occur in a PS pump, and it's a recipe for a failure. Lots of things crack that aren't supposed to. I watched the guy at the EARLS counter argue with a customer over an aluminum AN fitting for a power steering application...EARLS guy flat out refused to sell it to him, and told him he needed the steel fitting because with the vibrations of a high pressure hydraulic system, the aluminum one would fail. There was a steel fitting on the counter, but the EARLS guy told the customer if we wanted a pretty blue aluminum one to order it elsewhere as he wouldn't be responsible for a failure. Guy stormed out and left the steel one on the counter. Earls dude said he's seem 'em break, and is over it.

They way the steering pump mounts in my boat, this kind of failure is plausible, but probably very rare. There is a mount plate across the back of the stamped steel can. The cracked area is not in contact with the plate though. The rib in can touches the plate however.

If it is welded properly there will likely be enough material there I won’t have to worry about it again in my lifetime.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The crack in a stamped steel housing is really unusual. Hopefully your past the headaches.

Thank you and agreed.

 

[rush1]

Over the years I've brazed up a ton of power steering pump housing it's fairly common on older units

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Picked up the pump today.

They said the can was not fixable where it cracked because of internal baffling and they gave me a similar can that will work. The return line fitting is slightly different for a car instead of a boat, but it should work just fine.

I’m going to replace the return hose from the cooler to the pump with a new piece of hose anyway, and it will need to be a couple inches longer for this new can.

Hopefully we are good to go now!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

And a final result - I got it back together today.

I ran a new longer return hose,(you can see then loop in the return line below the pump) and everything went back together easily.

The motor was completely drained of water and would not prime the seawater pump off the hose. So after running it for 30 seconds and seeing no real water out of the pipes, I dragged the boat to the marina and ran it on the launch ramp for about 15 mins. The power steering works, and does not seem to leak.

I think I’m good to go, and will try to give it a real test tomorrow.

 

[CobraDave]

View attachment 758041 And a final result - I got it back together today.

I ran a new longer return hose,(you can see then loop in the return line below the pump) and everything went back together easily.

The motor was completely drained of water and would not prime the seawater pump off the hose. So after running it for 30 seconds and seeing no real water out of the pipes, I dragged the boat to the marina and ran it on the launch ramp for about 15 mins. The power steering works, and does not seem to leak.

I think I’m good to go, and will try to give it a real test tomorrow.

Good deal and learned some things in the process. So with hindsight, would you have just purchased a new one?


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[LargeOrangeFont]

Good deal and learned some things in the process. So with hindsight, would you have just purchased a new one?


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In hindsight I know the pump had been weeping out of that crack for awhile. Something happened and made it worse.

Actually I’m glad I did what I did. I saved close to $400 from just buying a new “boat specific” pump. Probably saved $1000 over having a shop do it. If this canister leaks again, it is $40 for a new “car” can, and I know it will work. And in theory I have a quality rebuilt boat specific steering pump, as opposed to a parts store car pump.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

In hindsight I know the pump had been weeping out of that crack for awhile. Something happened and made it worse.

Actually I’m glad I did what I did. I saved close to $400 from just buying a new “boat specific” pump. Probably saved $1000 over having a shop do it. If this canister leaks again, it is $40 for a new “car” can, and I know it will work. And in theory I have a quality rebuilt boat specific steering pump, as opposed to a parts store car pump.

As i just completed the same fiasco, i almost said F’it and got an automotive pump, but didn’t. Yesterday was my test run on the water, and i now know that I’d been dealing with the headache for to long as the steering felt so good so precise again.
I’m glad i went back to a rebuilt marine as well. I spent 200$ getting a rebuilt pump, 120$ for the new stainless reservoir and all is happy. Shop was 689$ for pump only, then I’m more than sure the work at 500$+
Being slightly mechanical with a boat is priceless.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

In the past , someone may have pryed on the reservoir to tighten the pump , this may have compromised it . It might of even been the factory ...

 

[CobraDave]

Btw that motor is CLEAN. That didn’t go unnoticed. [emoji3]


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[LargeOrangeFont]

Btw that motor is CLEAN. That didn’t go unnoticed.

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Thanks!

When you have a Cobra worth this kind of money, you have to take care of it.