Powerful - and deletes the argument

[RiverDave]

Reading this pretty much obliterates the argument for removing civil war monuments for either side. It takes greater men to reconciliate..

———

On September 19, 1889, over 10,000 veterans, blue and gray, gathered in Crawfish Springs, Georgia, for a grand barbecue/reunion in commemoration of the 26th anniversary of the Battle of Chickamauga. One of the speakers that day was former general William Rosecrans, who had commanded the Federal army in the battle. “It took great men to win that battle,” Rosecrans said, “but it takes greater men still to wipe away all the ill feeling which naturally grows out of such a contest.”

Indeed, the spirit of national reconciliation that was sweeping the nation was remarkable and unprecedented in human history. Less than 25 years after the conclusion of the deadliest war (by far) in American history, the former combatants were gathering to eat barbecue and work together to promote the creation of a national park at the battlefield.

The following year Congress authorized the establishment of what would become the Chickamauga/Chattanooga Battlefield, the first Battlefield National Park in America. After the Chickamauga gathering and the establishment of the national park, others followed. There were Grand Reunions of veterans at Gettysburg and Vicksburg, for example, with President Wilson being the featured speaker at the Gettysburg gathering. And there are now 25 National Military Parks.

On September 18, 1895, one hundred twenty-six years ago today, the Chickamauga/Chattanooga Battlefield Park was formally dedicated, making it the first Battlefield National Park in America, with Vice President Adlai Stevenson delivering the opening remarks at the ceremony the following day before a crowd of 40,000 people.

The photo is from the 1889 veterans’ reunion.

 

[SixD9R]

Love it!
Because in the end, they were all Americans.

 

[Long Way Home]

To forgive and forget means you've finally made Peace with the offense that's occurred and have allowed yourself to move forward, forgiveness is an important step in the healing process. But there are some who are unable to look back at a hurtful painful past and wish to bring back the south back to it's pre civil war days.

Constitutional Rights Foundation

The Southern “Black Codes” of 1865-66 The end of the Civil War marked the end of slavery for 4 million black Southerners. But the war also left them landless and with little money to support themselves. White Southerners, seeking to control the freedme, The end of the Civil War marked the end...

www.crf-usa.org

 

[Bob Bitchen]

Thanks for posting that RD, keep them coming.

 

[rivermobster]

Love it!
Because in the end, they were all Americans.

So many people seem to have forgotten that. Me included.

Great reminder @RiverDave

 

[RiverDave]

Thanks for posting that RD, keep them coming.

I have been posting a lot of them in the Facebook thread. I am part of a couple historical groups and some of the posts they make are remarkable.

 

[Drew]

Love it!
Because in the end, they were all Americans.

Not true. Libs are from another planet . Prove me wrong.

 

[TPC]

On the same subject : wife and I belong to a trust that’s been able to buy 158 essential battlefield acres at Gettysburg.
It’ll be restored to 1863 condition and deeded to the NPS. - or vice versa.
It wasn’t cheap.

 

[RandyH]

Going to Chattanooga in a few weeks for biz. Now I have something worthwhile to visit. Thanks RD.

 

[McKay]

On the same subject : wife and I belong to a trust that’s been able to buy 158 essential battlefield acres at Gettysburg.
It’ll be restored to 1863 condition and deeded to the NPS. - or vice versa.
It wasn’t cheap.

That's awesome. Went to Gettysburg for the first time a few months ago. Left there completely blown away. Truly an unbelievable experience.

 

[PDQH2O]

That's awesome. Went to Gettysburg for the first time a few months ago. Left there completely blown away. Truly an unbelievable experience.

Been to Gettysburg a few times. The best by far was about 8 years ago. We toured the west battlefield on Segways. Show up 30 before tour time to get acquainted with the Segway's operation (super easy) then through town streets and into the park. Tour guide was on two way radio. We zipped around the traffic as necessary, parked the scooters and when ready moved on to the next stop. It's the ONLY to see the battlefield.

 

[RiverDave]

If you wonder why we are in trouble as a nation you can find no better example than Washington himself. He stepped down from President.. at the time there was no term limits.

Instead of a never ending list for power like pretty much all of our representatives have now.. It was a love for country and the ideals behind it.

Term limits should be involved in every government position from the top down.

——————————-

Learn Our History Today: On September 19, 1796, President George Washington’s farewell address was released to the American People. It appeared in newspapers across the country, sending a very clear message: George Washington would not be seeking a third term for the Presidency. This came as a shock to the public, many of whom expected George Washington to rule for life.

In the address itself, Washington attempted to convince the people that his services were no longer needed and that he was never qualified to be President. He then went on to say that if he accomplished anything, it was only through the support of others. He then used the rest of the address to say that the strength of the nation rests upon the people’s private morals, saying they are “indispensable.”

Also, on September 19, 1881, President James Garfield succumbed to gunshot wounds he received several months prior on July 2. On that day, Garfield was at the train station on his way to his summer vacation when he was shot twice by a man who was upset that the President had not given him an appointment to a federal job. Doctors, including the famous Alexander Graham Bell, tried everything they could to save Garfield’s life, and in September the President appeared to be recovering. However, Garfield took a sudden turn for the worse while staying at a resort in New Jersey and died on September 19.

Also, on this day in history:
1778: The first budget of the United States is passed by the Continental Congress.
1863: The Battle of Chickamauga begins, after a few days of fighting Union forces retreat.
1947: Famed baseball player Jackie Robinson is named Rookie of Year.

Help us to keep history alive in America by sharing Learn Our History with your kids and grandkids! Try Learn Our History’s new streaming service and access our entire library of animated videos FREE for 7 days! Check out our great streaming options at trylearnourhistory.com.

Image-Public Domain via Wikimedia Commons

 

[RiverDave]

Fuck this guy.. And Andre too!

There is little doubt in my mind that most of the higher ups in our government have sold us down the river.. much like Benedict Arnold.

Learn Our History Today: On September 21, 1780, during the American Revolution, American General Benedict Arnold’s treason was revealed when plans were discovered detailing his plot to turn West Point over to the British. Throughout the first years of America’s fight for independence, Benedict Arnold was one of the United States’ finest military officers. He fought the British at Quebec, Ridgefield, Lake Champlain, and finally, in arguably his finest hour, at the Battle of Saratoga. In this fight, his spirited rallying of Patriot troops and his charge on Hessian positions turned the tide of the battle, giving the Americans a decisive victory.

However, Arnold suffered an extremely painful leg wound at Saratoga, and he would have to spend months recovering. During his recovery period and beyond, he was passed over for many a promotion even though he had seniority. These slights did not go unnoticed by Arnold, and he, a man obsessed with protecting his honor, would never forget them. In 1780, Arnold was appointed to command the critical Hudson River fortification of West Point. West Point had extreme strategic value due to its location on the river, a harsh bend. Patriots had placed a chain across the river at this point baring British ships from coming any farther and essentially dividing the river in two. Arnold knew the value of the fortification, and at this point he began to consider the unthinkable, betraying his countrymen.

After constant urging from his wife, who had strong British sympathies, and after many perceived slights, Arnold began to meet with the British to discuss switching sides. He had quite a bit to offer them. He was known to be an exceptional military commander who could win battles, and most importantly he could secure the surrender of West Point, which would give the British complete control of the Hudson, essentially splitting the American Colonies. This whole plot may have been successful, but unfortunately for the British, Major John Andre, Arnold’s British contact, was captured by Patriot militia. On his person were documents incriminating Arnold and revealing the whole plot. As soon as Arnold got wind of Andre’s capture, he rapidly rowed himself away down the Hudson in a small boat, linking up with British ships. The news of Benedict Arnold’s betrayal shocked the entire nation. His name has since become synonymous with traitor.

Also, on this day in U.S. history:
1776: Patriot Nathan Hale, who spied on British for American rebels, is arrested.
1863: Union forces retreat to Chattanooga after a defeat at Chickamauga.
1970: Monday Night Football premieres on ABC – The Browns win 31-21 over the Jets.

Help us to keep history alive in America by sharing Learn Our History with your kids and grandkids! Try Learn Our History’s new streaming service and access our entire library of animated videos FREE for 7 days! Check out our great streaming options at trylearnourhistory.com.

Image-Public Domain via Wikimedia Commons

 

[RiverDave]

The time a priest read the seasons from the Bible’s and toon his robe off to reveal a continental uniform and proclaimed this is the season for war.

On This Day in History > October 1, 1746:
John Peter Gabriel Muhlenberg is Born

"John Peter Gabriel Muhlenberg was a Lutheran minister who rose to prominence as a general during the American Revolution and was later elected to serve in the US Congress.

Peter Muhlenberg was born into a minister’s family in Trappe, Pennsylvania. As a young man, he and his brothers were sent to Germany to study. Peter was a rambunctious youth and the teachers recommended that he be trained for business instead of the ministry, as his father had planned. For this reason, Peter was apprenticed to a merchant in Lubeck for some time, a position he hated. Peter eventually ran off and joined the German army for a time and then the British army.

In 1767, Peter returned to Pennsylvania as an assistant to a British officer and left the army to begin studying for the ministry. In 1769, Peter was licensed in the Lutheran church and began serving with his father in New Jersey. Peter married and took a church in Woodstock, Virginia, where he remained until the Revolution began.

Peter became a follower of Patrick Henry and was appointed the head of Dunmore County’s Committee of Safety and Correspondence. In 1774, he was elected to the House of Burgesses and then to the first rebel Virginia Convention. As the war progressed, George Washington personally asked Peter to raise the 8th Virginia Regiment.

According to legend, Muhlenberg stood before his congregation on January 21, 1776 in his clerical robes and began to preach from Ecclesiastes chapter 3, "To every thing there is a season..." When he reached the 8th verse, "a time of war, and a time of peace," Muhlenberg tore off his robe to reveal a colonel's uniform of the Continental Army underneath. He preached that this was a time of war and encouraged the men in his congregation to join the fight. 162 men joined him that today. The following day, Muhlenberg led the regiment to join the Continental Army.

Muhlenberg's regiment first served on the southern coast, but was then transferred to Valley Forge where he was promoted to brigadier general. Muhlenberg saw action at the Battles of Brandywine, Germantown, Monmouth, Stony Point and Charleston. He was later transferred to Virginia to oversee the state militia and served in Lafayette’s division at the Battle of Yorktown.

After the war, Muhlenberg moved back to Pennsylvania where he served on the Supreme Executive Council of Pennsylvania, several years of which he was Vice-President of the Council, a position equivalent to lieutenant-governor. In 1789, Muhlenberg was elected to the First Congress. His brother, Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, was elected to Congress as well and became the first Speaker of the House of Representatives. Peter was also elected to the 3rd and 5th Congresses as a Democratic-Republican.

Muhlenberg formed the first Democratic-Republican society, a group of political activists who promoted their views and candidates. These groups spread around the country and helped create our modern notion of grassroots political activity.

In 1801, Muhlenberg was elected to the US Senate, but he only held this position for a few months before President Thomas Jefferson appointed him to the lucrative position of Supervisor of US Customs for Pennsylvania. In 1803, he also became the Collector of Customs for the Port of Philadelphia, a position he held until his death, also ironically on October 1, 1807. Muhlenberg is buried at Augustus Lutheran Church in Trappe, Pennsylvania."

 

[spectra3279]

This should be in the dungeon.

 

[Flyinbowtie]

Good stuff, RD. Excellent.
As we all know, one only need turn to history to uncover the motives of those who wish to erase or re-write it.
They never change.
Historically, (no pun intended) it never ends well for the people, even the ones who initially support the madness frequently wind up swallowed up by it.
Been a voice crying in the wilderness on this topic for 15 years.

 

[RiverDave]

Since we are on a history kick.. let’s take it a step back

This ankle bone is the only actual archaeological evidence for a crucifixion.

Crucifixion was an almost unimaginably painful death. The best archaeological evidence for it is this ankle bone, with a nail driven in through from the side. His name was probably Yehohanan, he died in Roman Judea, his ‘crime’ is unknown.

Crucifixion is absolutely brutal, and as someone that's done a lot of research on it, it's not fun. It starts off with flogging, we find this in the bible as Jesus was crucified. The implement was made of multiple strips of leather with things like bones, rocks, and pieces of metal on the end designed to rip into your flesh and pull it off, to the point where your nerves would be peeled off, and your spine exposed, in some cases. And then you would carry the cross, or rather, the beam your arms are attached to.

Many Christian images portray Jesus as carrying the whole cross, with both beams, but it's only the one beam, the vertical beam stays in the same place so the Romans could execute more efficiently.

After arriving at the place, which many people don't do, they die before they even get there, they hang you up.

The most common method was to tie your hand and feet to the cross, after putting the horizontal beam into place, but nails, such as in the photo, were also often used, on the wrists and ankles, and then taken out post crucifixion to save on cost. Many people think that since the bible says the nails were driven into Jesus' hands and feet that it was his palms and mid feet, but no, the meaning of hands and feet included wrists and ankles when the bible was written.

This would not be a fun time, as your arms get pulled out of socket, and your torn up back is scraped against the incredibly rough wood, made worse by the fact you have to pull yourself up to get a breath, scraping your back again, and then letting yourself down, over and over, causing even more damage.

Most people died by asphyxiation, because they simply couldn't bring themselves up to breath anymore, but some died from bloodloss.

One way that the Romans occasionally sped up crucifixions was to break the person's legs, making it so they couldn't bring themselves up anymore, and they would die of asphyxiation.

The longest recorded time someone has been on a cross was at least a week.

And that's the typical crucifixion, after you die, you get taken down, and disposed of, hope you enjoyed the history lesson ~

info by reddit @indeed_is_very_cool

 

[Racing97]

Dave thank you, and by the way it would make an interesting addition to the forums if you included American History

 

[RiverDave]

Dave thank you, and by the way it would make an interesting addition to the forums if you included American History

I love all kinds of hi story! Particularly American

 

[RiverDave]

Continuing our powerful stories.

- Enemies become friends, Charlie Brown & Franz Stigler -

The 21-year old American B-17 pilot glanced outside his cockpit and froze. He blinked hard and looked again, hoping it was just a mirage. But his co-pilot stared at the same horrible vision. "My God, this is a nightmare," the co-pilot said. "He's going to destroy us," the pilot
agreed.

The men were looking at a gray German Messerschmitt fighter hovering just three feet off their wingtip. It was five days before Christmas 1943, and the fighter had closed in on their crippled American B-17 bomber for the kill.

The B-17 pilot, Charles Brown, was a 21-year-old West Virginia farm boy on his first combat mission. His bomber had been shot to pieces by swarming fighters, and his plane was alone, struggling to stay in the skies above Germany . Half his crew was wounded, and the tail gunner was dead, his blood frozen in icicles over the machine guns.

But when Brown and his co-pilot, Spencer "Pinky" Luke, looked at the fighter pilot again, something odd happened. The German didn't pull the trigger. He stared back at the bomber in amazement and respect. Instead of pressing the attack, he nodded at Brown and saluted. What happened next was one of the most remarkable acts of chivalry recorded during World War II.

Charles Brown was on his first combat mission during World War II when he met an enemy unlike any other.

Revenge, not honor, is what drove 2nd Lt. Franz Stigler to jump into his fighter that chilly December day in 1943. Stigler wasn't just any fighter pilot. He was an ace. One more kill and he would win The Knight's Cross, German's highest award for valor.

Yet Stigler was driven by something deeper than glory. His older brother, August, was a fellow Luftwaffe pilot who had been killed earlier in the war. American pilots had killed Stigler's comrades and were bombing his country's cities. Stigler was standing near his fighter on a German airbase when he heard a bomber's engine. Looking up, he saw a B-17 flying so low it looked like it was going to land. As the bomber disappeared behind some trees, Stigler tossed his cigarette aside, saluted a ground crewman and took off in pursuit.

As Stigler's fighter rose to meet the bomber, he decided to attack it from behind. He climbed behind the sputtering bomber, squinted into his gun sight and placed his hand on the trigger. He was about to fire when he hesitated. Stigler was baffled. No one in the bomber fired at
him.

He looked closer at the tail gunner. He was still, his white fleece collar soaked with blood. Stigler craned his neck to examine the rest of the bomber. Its skin had been peeled away by shells, its guns knocked out. One propeller wasn't turning. Smoke trailed from another engine. He could see men huddled inside the shattered plane tending the wounds of other crewmen.

Then he nudged his plane alongside the bomber's wings and locked eyes with the pilot whose eyes were wide with shock and horror.

Stigler pressed his hand over the rosary he kept in his flight jacket. He eased his index finger off the trigger. He couldn't shoot. It would be murder.

Stigler wasn't just motivated by vengeance that day. He also lived by a code. He could trace his family's ancestry to knights in 16th century Europe . He had once studied to be a priest. A German pilot who spared the enemy, though, risked death in Nazi Germany. If someone reported him, he would be executed.

Yet Stigler could also hear the voice of his commanding officer, who once told him: "You follow the rules of war for you -- not your enemy. You fight by rules to keep your humanity."

Alone with the crippled bomber, Stigler changed his mission. He nodded at the American pilot and began flying in formation so German anti-aircraft gunners on the ground wouldn't shoot down the slow-moving bomber. (The Luftwaffe had B-17s of its own, shot down and rebuilt for secret missions and training.) Stigler escorted the bomber over the North Sea and took one last look at the American pilot. Then he saluted him, peeled his fighter away and returned to Germany.

"Good luck," Stigler said to himself. "You're in God's hands now..." Franz Stigler didn't think the big B-17 could make it back to England and wondered for years what happened to the American pilot and crew he encountered in combat.

As he watched the German fighter peel away that December day, 2nd Lt. Charles Brown wasn't thinking of the philosophical
connection between enemies. He was thinking of survival. He flew his crippled plane, filled with wounded, back to his base in England and landed with one of four engines knocked out, one
failing and barely any fuel left. After his bomber came to a stop, he
leaned back in his chair and put a hand over a pocket
Bible he kept in his flight jacket. Then he sat in silence.

Brown flew more missions before the war ended. Life moved on. He got married, had two daughters, supervised foreign aid for the U.S. State Department during the Vietnam War and eventually retired to Florida

Late in life, though, the encounter with the German pilot began to gnaw at him. He started having nightmares, but in his dream there would be no act of mercy. He would awaken just before his bomber crashed.

Brown took on a new mission. He had to find that German pilot. Who was he? Why did he save my life? He scoured military archives in the U.S. and England . He attended a pilots' reunion and shared his story. He finally placed an ad in a German newsletter for former Luftwaffe pilots, retelling the story and asking if anyone knew the pilot.

On January 18, 1990, Brown received a letter. He opened it and read: "Dear Charles, All these years I wondered what happened to that B-17, did she make it home? Did her crew survive their wounds? To hear of your survival has filled me with indescribable joy..."

It was Stigler.

He had left Germany after the war and moved to Vancouver, British Columbia, in 1953. He became a prosperous businessman. Now
retired, Stigler told Brown that he would be in Florida come summer and "it sure would be nice to talk about our encounter." Brown was so excited, though, that he couldn't wait to see Stigler. He called directory assistance for Vancouver and asked whether there was a
number for a Franz Stigler. He dialed the number, and Stigler picked up.

"My God, it's you!" Brown shouted as tears ran down his cheeks. Brown had to do more. He wrote a letter to Stigler
in which he said: "To say THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU on behalf of my surviving crewmembers and their families appears totally inadequate."

One of Brown's friends was there to record the summer reunion. Both men looked like retired businessmen: they were plump,
sporting neat ties and formal shirts. They fell into each other' arms and wept and laughed. They talked about their encounter in a light, jovial tone.

The mood then changed. Someone asked Stigler what he thought about Brown. Stigler sighed and his square jaw tightened. He began
to fight back tears before he said in heavily accented English: "I love you, Charlie."

Stigler had lost his brother, his friends and his country. He was virtually exiled by his countrymen after the war. There were 28,000 pilots who fought for the German air force. Only 1,200 survived.

The war cost him everything. Charlie Brown was the only good thing that came out of World War II for Franz. It was the one thing he
could be proud of. The meeting helped Brown as well, says his oldest daughter, Dawn Warner.

Brown and Stigler became pals. They would take fishing trips together. They would fly cross-country to each other homes and take road trips together to share their story at schools and veterans' reunions. Their wives, Jackie Brown and Hiya Stigler, became friends.

Brown's daughter says her father would worry about Stigler's health and constantly check in on him.

"It wasn't just for show," she says. "They really did feel for each other. They
talked about once a week." As his friendship with Stigler deepened, something else happened to her father, Warner says "The nightmares went away."

Brown had written a letter of thanks to Stigler, but one day, he showed the extent of his gratitude. He organized a reunion of his surviving crew members, along with their extended families. He invited Stigler as a guest of honor.

During the reunion, a video was played showing all the faces of the people that now lived -- children, grandchildren, relatives -- because of Stigler's act of chivalry. Stigler watched the film from his seat of honor.

"Everybody was crying, not just him," Warner says.

Stigler and Brown died within months of each other in 2008. Stigler was 92, and Brown was 87. They had started off as enemies, became friends, and then something more.

After he died, Warner was searching through Brown's library when she came across a book on German fighter jets. Stigler had given
the book to Brown. Both were country boys who loved to read about planes.

Warner opened the book and saw an inscription Stigler had written to Brown:

In 1940, I lost my only brother as a night fighter. On the 20th of December, 4 days before Christmas, I had the chance to save a B-17 from her destruction, a plane so badly damaged it was a wonder that she was still flying. The pilot, Charlie Brown, is for me as
precious as my brother was.

Thanks Charlie.
Your Brother,
Franz...