Private Pilot License Training

[Classic Daycruiser]

What's that gonna set me back?
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Something similar: Cessna 421 Golden eagle. This one $192k
https://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=listing&main=

 

[530RL]

Unless you have a bunch of stuff to haul, given the price of 100LL why not just buy a Cirrus G3?

Garmin 1000, plenty fast, reasonably cheap to maintain versus a twin?

 

[Enen]

View attachment 664829

This was my setup in my Cessna 172. Basic IFR. I used a yoke mounted Garmin 696 w/ XM weather and radio, and feed it into my Garmin audio panel. Makes flying in and out of Phoenix during our monsoon season more assuring.

Where do you fly out of?


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[rrrr]

Flying is certainly addicting!!!

We owned 5 different airplanes over a 30 year period and used them all primarily to commute back and forth from OC to Havasu.

Our place on the CA side has an 1800' dirt strip (one way regardless of wind direction) but I could get from SNA to HII (Palms) in somewhere between 1:35 - 1:10 depending on the airplane.

Through the years we owned:

• Cardinal RG
• Beech Bonanza A36
• Piper Saratoga (non-turbo)
• Beech Baron B55
• Cessna 303 Crusader

They all had their pluses and Minuses and served us well throughout our flying adventures.....our favorite plane was probably the last one as it was incredibly roomy, had a HUGE cargo door as well as Air Stair door and was probably the most docile twin I ever flew......not the fastest but steady as a rock. View attachment 665110 View attachment 665111 View attachment 665112

The biggest reason I flew for the last 10 years of so was because time was my most precious commodity......as we've slowed down and moved to Havasu full time I'm just not in such a hurry anymore and we sold the Crusader.

Now have the best of all worlds as a friend of mine keeps a Piper turbo arrow (his second plane) in his hangar in Havasu and asks me to fly it from time to time......which I do but when we go places now we drive......weird huh??

Anyhow flying was and still is one of the great joys of my life and I wouldn't trade any of it if I was doing it over again!!!

Paul, as you know, the 303 Crusader was not a big seller, and they're pretty rare today. I think you're the first person I've run across that owned one.

It certainly was a good looking aircraft, it's nice to hear your thoughts about it, along with the rest of your entertaining post. Thanks.

 

[530RL]

Here is a panel with overkill. From radar altimeter and traffic to hook weight measuring.

And IFR capable, but not legally IFR certified....

 

[Rvrluvr]

Here is a panel with overkill. From radar altimeter and traffic to hook weight measuring.

And IFR capable, but not legally IFR certified....

View attachment 665128

Always wanted to fly helo’s. I cant afford to buy one and its impossible to rent

 

[rrrr]

Something similar: Cessna 421 Golden eagle. This one $192k
https://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=listing&main=


View attachment 665126

I love the looks of the 421.

I've always heard the GTSIO-520 engines in the 421 are worked hard and problematic. These days, owning any 40-50 year old pressurized piston twin is an expensive proposition, and you better have on big boy pants if you buy one.

That's a "B" model in the photo you posted. A "C" model with low time engines can be had for less than a ten year old Cirrus SR-22. They have more desirable trailing link landing gear, so the acquisition cost is a little higher than the older models.

But like I said, you gotta pay to keep it flying. Replacing a fatigue cracked engine cradle can cost $40K, rebuilding both engines and turbos upwards of $70K when it's all said and done.

 

[Classic Daycruiser]

Where do you fly out of?
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KDVT and P19

 

[Paul65k]

What's that gonna set me back?



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Well of course it all depends on engine times, avionics and condition.......that being said $150 - 200K most likely.

We sold this one in 2013 for $165K and it had very good avionics and low time engines.

 

[Paul65k]

I love the looks of the 421.

I've always heard the GTSIO-520 engines in the 421 are worked hard and problematic. These days, owning any 40-50 year old pressurized twin is an expensive proposition, and you better have on big boy pants if you buy one.

That's a "B" model in the photo you posted. A "C" model with low time engines can be had for less than a ten year old Cirrus SR-22. They have more desirable trailing link landing gear, so the acquisition cost is a little higher than the older models.

But like I said, you gotta pay to keep it flying. Replacing a fatigue cracked engine cradle can cost $40K, rebuilding both engines and turbos upwards of $70K when it's all said and done.

I've known 2 people that have owned them for longer periods of time and they both said figure $550 - $650 an hour for maintenance, insurance and reserves......plus fuel

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I love the looks of the 421.

I've always heard the GTSIO-520 engines in the 421 are worked hard and problematic. These days, owning any 40-50 year old pressurized twin is an expensive proposition, and you better have on big boy pants if you buy one.

That's a "B" model in the photo you posted. A "C" model with low time engines can be had for less than a ten year old Cirrus SR-22. They have more desirable trailing link landing gear, so the acquisition cost is a little higher than the older models.

But like I said, you gotta pay to keep it flying. Replacing a fatigue cracked engine cradle can cost $40K, rebuilding both engines and turbos upwards of $70K when it's all said and done.

For another 500-600 a month in fixed costs you can own and fly a nice King Air C90 over one of the big pressurised twins. The KA will cost a little more in fuel but way fewer headaches in the shop and it is a better airplane.

I've known more than one owner that has made that leap and been very happy.

 

[rrrr]

I've known 2 people that have owned them for longer periods of time and they both said figure $550 - $650 an hour for maintenance, insurance and reserves......plus fuel

With fuel consumption running between 40-45 gph that's another $250-$300 per hour.

And I've heard stories of consecutive annuals that cost around $20K.

Flying it 200 hours per year would cost over $200K.

Holy crap, that's a lot of money.

 

[Dkahnjob]

With fuel consumption running between 40-45 gph that's another $250-$300 per hour.

And I've heard stories of consecutive annuals that cost around $20K.

Flying it 200 hours per year would cost over $200K.

Holy crap, that's a lot of money.

I have two close friends, one has a Cessna 414 Chancellor and the other has a Cessna 340. They both regularly have $20K annuals and add to that with a pressurized cabin class plane most insurance companies require re current training yearly and that costs $2k-5K annually.
The jump from a light twin like a Baron or 310 to a pressurized cabin class plane is a huge jump and then the next step to a turbine powered plane its just a big a step again.

 

[rrrr]

I have seen prices for two week recurrent training programs at Flight Safety International for 400 Series Cessnas quoted at $25,000-$30,000. Attending the course every two years translates into a $1,000-$1,250 monthly cost.

But what costs can the alternative impose? Thirty years ago a 421 crash killed my best friend's parents and the mothers of four other friends because of an open baggage door and a poorly executed go around which turned fatal. Flying the airplane normally and returning to land was the correct procedure, because the open baggage door did not affect flight performance of the aircraft.

In many ways a turbine twin like a King Air or Commander is easier to fly during an engine failure event at takeoff. You have a TOGA (takeoff-go-around) button on the throttles which produces maximum rated thrust, asymmetrical zero torque sensing systems that produce rudder boost and auto trim, and auto feathering on the propeller of the dead engine.

An engine failure at the critical takeoff phase in a heavily loaded big piston twin requires the pilot to fly as if his life depends on it, because that's exactly what the dice have rolled.

 

[Dkahnjob]

I have had one engine failure in the Baron and I was glad to have that second engine.
Landed uneventfully back at Van Nuys. 5 people, full fuel, and baggage (about 100 pounds below gross weight)!

 

[rrrr]

That's impressive. I don't have a multi license, and can't imagine the stress of that situation.

 

[Dkahnjob]

It happened so fast all you do is take care of business.
The left engine broke a through bolt on the case and tried to chuck the left center cylinder. That broke the fuel injector line and caused the engine to go super lean.
I felt the vibration, it was like someone was hitting me with a 2x4. I later asked all of my passengers if they felt it and they all said no they didn't feel anything.
I guess I really know my plane and am one with it! There was a hole in the top of the case big enough to put your fist through it.
We did a double engine change after that. The old engines were IO-520C Light case, with 1320 hours, Continental factory re-mans.
The new engines are heavy case 7th stud versions.

 

[rrrr]

That's a good move specifying what case you want.

For the non-aviation readers of this post, any mechanic with an Airframe and Powerplant certificate can rebuild an engine, but only the factory can rebuild them to a "zero time" condition and issue a new log book for it. The engine case halves on some engines were built with different casting thicknesses. There's nothing that prevents the factory from building remanufactured engines with one heavy and one light case half. Since they're the factory, parts can be reused as long as they're within the tolerances they set.

As an example, if the cylinder bore oversize tolerances are between .0025 and .0045, there's nothing that prevents them from using the .0045 parts.You pay the big factory cost for the zero time engines, and can get parts that are a RCH from being junk.

 

[RandyH]

Who needs a hanger, dump it just outside of town and call an uber,

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I have seen prices for two week recurrent training programs at Flight Safety International for 400 Series Cessnas quoted at $25,000-$30,000. Attending the course every two years translates into a $1,000-$1,250 monthly cost.

But what costs can the alternative impose? Thirty years ago a 421 crash killed my best friend's parents and the mothers of four other friends because of an open baggage door and a poorly executed go around which turned fatal. Flying the airplane normally and returning to land was the correct procedure, because the open baggage door did not affect flight performance of the aircraft.

In many ways a turbine twin like a King Air or Commander is easier to fly during an engine failure event at takeoff. You have a TOGA (takeoff-go-around) button on the throttles which produces maximum rated thrust, asymmetrical zero torque sensing systems that produce rudder boost and auto trim, and auto feathering on the propeller of the dead engine.

An engine failure at the critical takeoff phase in a heavily loaded big piston twin requires the pilot to fly as if his life depends on it, because that's exactly what the dice have rolled.

Simcom is cheaper... LOL.

 

[Havasu Surfer]

Well of course it all depends on engine times, avionics and condition.......that being said $150 - 200K most likely.

We sold this one in 2013 for $165K and it had very good avionics and low time engines.

So the dilemma is do I spend the bulk of the jack on the boat or plane? First world problems.

 

[Fltplan]

I do believe the official endorsement from RDP for all things aviation is a Mr. Frank Holbert... RD should have his contact info View attachment 664356

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Oh my, Mr Frank Holbert. Good memories here on RDP...


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